XT4 Rocks with Ref9 amps

[DrJRapp]

I'm sitting here in my study/lib doing some research on real estate. Meanwhile I have Donna Summer's "The Journey" (2003) album playing on my B&W XT4 - Shanling CD100 -NuForceRef9 setup. I'm absolutely amazed on how well this setup ROCKS. On the second disc the forth cut is an extended remix of "I will live for Love" that was originally released on 12" vinyl for the disco clubs. I'ts a transitional rock/disco beat with continuous heavy bass kickdrum beats (electronically generated but very real sounding) throught it's 9:16 duration. I'm playing it Loud...disco loud...and the entire setup hangs together like nothing I have ever heard in it's size range. The bass solidness and attack is awesome...without a sub. In case you're not familiar with the XT4s they are thin "lifestyle" speakers (see Greg Lett's system pix) with twin 4" drivers for the LF. The bass that these things are capable of when driven by the NuForce Ref9s is nothing less than unbelievable. I think it's the way synergy is defined.

[Kobus]

Jerry, ...... sounds very good.

A good recipe for "research".

But Jerry, We miss the photo, it does not feel the same.

Kobus

[DrJRapp]

But Jerry, We miss the photo, it does not feel the same.

Kobus

The photo was 5 years old and my wife says I look better now with salt and pepper hair. Hopefully I'll get a new one soon.

[bleeding ears]

Jerry did you mean a new photo or new hair? If it was hair, let us know how your auditions of new hair go also. LOL :lol:

Ok, so how do you explain the great bass you get with such small drivers and no subwoofer?

I have heard some systems with smallish drivers and they seem to have an advantage over larger drivers in that the bass is tighter sounding, but not ground shaking as you might get with a sub.

This very tight sounding bass I have heard is great but it sometimes seems like the drivers are nearing their limits and with prolonged high volume may get damaged. Mind you I am talking about speakers in a much different price range to what your B&W's would be.

I am sure your B&W's are only the best quality all the way and would probably handle a rock concert in your house however, I would be interested to know how low the xt4's are rated to? Hz

Do you think the large drivers that were common 10 years ago or more are giving way to the abilities of newer smaller drivers? Or is it just that there are cost savings for manufacturers by not using such large drivers?

I dont recall seeing any 2 channel systems in shops with 10 inch drivers in recent years.



Pete

[DrJRapp]

Pete

The hair is all mine...except now it's salt and pepper...what's left of it...LOL

The bass from the XT4s are surprising ( I'm a big driver believer myself) with the Ref9s. With the Rotel RB 1080 the bass was full and deep, but not as moving, nor percussive. I think the speed of the Ref9s probably has something to do with that, and the smallish drivers are able to respond quickly to a fast rising input.

[miner]

Nice report Jerry - I am surprised to hear that the small drivers deliver such big bass. Are your Ref9s new? Did you sell your RMB-1077?

[GregLett]

Nice report Jerry - I am surprised to hear that the small drivers deliver such big bass. Are your Ref9s new? Did you sell your RMB-1077?

Those speakers have made believers out of many.

[DrJRapp]

Nice report Jerry - I am surprised to hear that the small drivers deliver such big bass. Are your Ref9s new? Did you sell your RMB-1077?

Sold the 1077 a month ago. I'm using the Ref9s for a different system.

[mat]

Hi Jerry,

I have read your great comments about the 1077. I'm now trying to make a decission between rmb-1077 or rmb-1095 for a pair of B&W 804S that I'm ordering tomorrow (can't wait!) and HTM3s. I will hear the 1095 tomorrow with this speakers because my dealer have it in stock, but unfortunatelly I can't demo the 1077... is not easy for me to decide between these two. If I'm not mistaken seems that 1077 has a cleaner, clearer sound and great bass, but I have read a few reports that make me a bit skeptical on how the extended top end of the 1077 will match with the brightness of the 804S's. Taking into account that I can't demo the 1077 any help to decide between the two will be much appreciated.

On the other side (but costly), maybe I should look also to NuForce 9s? and Parasound?. My dealer like Parasound more than Rotel for this speakers.

[DrJRapp]

Hi Jerry,

I have read a few reports that make me a bit skeptical on how the extended top end of the 1077 will match with the brightness of the 804S's. Taking into account that I can't demo the 1077 any help to decide between the two will be much appreciated.

On the other side (but costly), maybe I should look also to NuForce 9s? and Parasound?. My dealer like Parasound more than Rotel for this speakers.

I have owned and experienced all three. First, I'll dismiss Parasound, their amps just aren't linear enough for my tastes. The Rotel 1077 isn't bright so you won't find it hard to take with the 804s. I've heard the 1077/804 combo at a dealer and was favorably impressed but not "blown away". The REf9 on the other hand is much more extended and cleaner on the top end than any Rotel amp and you may just find that it makes the 804s sing due to it's clarity and lack of the graininess that seem be present in all Rotel amps I have owned. I found that difference on my XT4s which have a "typical" B&W aluminum tweeter that is similar to the 800s aluminum tweeters. The difference between the RB 1080 (like 2 channels of a 1095) and the Ref9 was night and day in terms of clarity and presentation. YMMV

[grit]

Mat,

I'll throw in my $.02, just for comparrison's purposes. I compared the 1095 to the 1077 on 803's. Here's what I got:

The 1077 instantly made me smile. Yep, a bit clearer and more detailed. Then the vocals kicked in. I tried 4 CD's - The Eagles, Sting, Norah Jones, Frank Sinatra. In every case, the singer sounded like they were in my lap. Drove me nuts and felt VERY unnatural. My distance from the speakers was about 10-15 feet with them about 10-12 feet apart. The room was treated with home-made sound absorbtion materials placed in key locations.

For kicks, I tried the 1091's, hoping they would be better. The vocalist seemed to be sitting behind me and to the left a bit.

Several other people here (who VERY MUCH LOVE the 1077 and 1091/1092) have commented on the same 'forward' presentation of the sound stage. Everyone else likes it. Perhaps because of the dimentions of their rooms or distance they sit from the speakers. Personally, I'm very unhappy with the imaging that the new amps provide. I've only read one other person's post that also disliked them and preferred the 1095.

All this to say, everyone has different opinions. I recommend you don't make a purchase without giving them a test drive (which is true with any piece of equipment). But, odds (literally) are that you'll prefer the 1077.

Good luck and let us know what you do.

** EDIT ** I originally mistyped the 1091 as 1090. I've edited the post to reflect the what I meant.

[mat]

Thanks again for your comments. I'm going this afternoon to the store and will demo the 1095, Halo (not sure if A51 or 52... let's see) and hopefully a few other brands. I will try to find a dealer where I could hear ref9's and rmb-1077, I agree that I should hear them myself before make any decision.

grit, my room is aprox. 20 x 14 and my sitting distance will be very similar as yours, about 13' from the speakers with a distance between them of 11-12 feet.

[Joey_V]

Mat,

For kicks, I tried the 1090's, hoping they would be better. The vocalist seemed to be sitting behind me and to the left a bit.

Good luck and let us know what you do.

Did you mean to say 1090 or 1092?

[grit]

Did you mean to say 1090 or 1092?

No, I tried a pair of 1090's. The 1092 arrived later that week. I've heard the 1092 has some subtle differences from a pair of 1090's, but not with respect to the forwardness of the imaging.

I've never tried any other class D amps.

*** EDIT *** - My mistake. I meant 1091's, not 1090's.

[mat]

I went yesterday to the store :driver: and have ordered the 804s :dance: I demoed the rotel rmb-1095, parasound A23 and Cyrus X power. I need to hear to them again for making a better opinion but my first impression is that parasound was IMHO the 'worst' of the three units, hey! but I'm not saying it was bad. To my ears it has some 'rounded' sound, warm and with a very nice bass (in that point better than rotel) but with a top-mid and HF less clear and detailed. The Rotel was in the middle, maybe the LF is one of the things that I'm a bit concerned about this unit but overall very nice sound. and the clear winner was Cyrus... I'm impressed on how this little amp sounds. More detailed and open, and a very good sound image. Very pleased with what I heard!.

Now, I would really love to hear the Ref9's, rmb-1077 and compare them to Cyrus. I'm feeling that the process of buying an amp is much more difficult that choosing the speakers. At least for me!.

[grit]

DOH! Ok, super-stupid points for me! ops:

My posts make NO sense. I was comparing the Rotel class D amps, and I kept referring to the 1091 as a 1090, which is a completely different amp. I'm sorry! I've edited my posts to reflect this.