Need a new sub for B&W 604 S3's

[Mike Gehring]

Anyone have a suggestion for a great sub that's compatible with the 604's. I have a Martin Logan GROTTO 10". This is an awesome sub but is lacking a bit in the low end.

I listen to a lot of hard rock, some rap, and a bunch of classic rock. Most DVD’s I buy are at least 5.1 or DTS. And I listen to a bunch of DVD-AUDIO.

I want tight sounding bass, but I also want that low end that makes your entire body rumble.

Not that I have to buy from my local Audiophile dealer but they are offering me a 100% credit toward a new sub. That's a $1000.00 credit. This is what they have to offer any suggestions?



ASW-300 - 8", 100W

ASW-600 - 10", 150W

ASW-650 - 12", 200W

ASW-675 - 10", 1000W

ASW-CM - 10", 1000W

ASW-700 - 10", Kevlar Pulp Cone

ASW-750 - 12", Kevlar Pulp Cone

ASW-800 - 12", 1000W

ASW-850 - 15", 1000W


Martin Logan - Dynamo

SS1 Long throw 10” woofer
SS2 Two long throw 10” woofers
SS4 Two long throw 15” woofers
Smart Sub Integrator
PX-02 Passive Subwoofer Crossover
PX-05 Passive Subwoofer Crossover

[mikej]

Bob Carver subwoofer's are very good

[Lewing]

I would pick ASW800 but if you have the budget, go for ASW850, classy looking and wonderful bass. Go for ASW 750 if you don't want to spend too much.

[Claude D D]

The ASW 675 rocks!!! Fast low bass. Great value for the money. If you ever need more rumble just add another one for some real sick bottom end action. The 675's out sell the 650's five to one at our store. :T

[bigburner]

The ASW 675 rocks!!! Fast low bass. Great value for the money. If you ever need more rumble just add another one for some real sick bottom end action. The 675's out sell the 650's five to one at our store. :T

Claude D D, what other B&W subs do you have at your store? How do you rate them compared to the 675?

[Claude D D]

We have a ASW 855 in our large HT room. That sub is insane!! Fast and low!!!
Pretty much the whole line in stock. At any given price point the B&W's are very good subs. :T

[dan87951]

I had a ASW675 and thought it was a terriable sub for home theater action. Sub had no rumble or bass that you could feel when something exploded. I was very dissapointed in that sub and quickly audiogon'd it. If you are going to stick with B&W your going to have to spend big bux to get a sub comparable from another manufacture at a lower price in my opinion. I would at least look at a ASW800 from B&W those are a nice sub otherwise I think the best bang is the Paradigm PW-2200 v.2 or a SVS. Don't get me wrong I like B&W speakers but there subwoofer lines are over priced and lacking for what you get in my opinion.

[Claude D D]

I had a ASW675 and thought it was a terriable sub for home theater action. Sub had no rumble or bass that you could feel when something exploded. I was very dissapointed in that sub and quickly audiogon'd it. If you are going to stick with B&W your going to have to spend big bux to get a sub comparable from another manufacture at a lower price in my opinion. I would at least look at a ASW800 from B&W those are a nice sub otherwise I think the best bang is the Paradigm PW-2200 v.2 or a SVS. Don't get me wrong I like B&W speakers but there subwoofer lines are over priced and lacking for what you get in my opinion.

I beg to differ with you on all counts. If that were the case I don't think we would sell any and it is our most popular sub! As for no rumble or bass we've never heard that complaint in the HT room we have our demo set up in. Like I say don't tell me show me! All you have to do is go hear one for yourself. :T

[Lewing]

Through my experience, if placed in the wrong part of the room, even the best subwoofer can sounds under-performed, that means you don't get the most out of your subwoofer, and that doesn't means that subwoofer is bad.
I had the velodyne DD10 with me in my old apartment and it sounded wonderful. Then i moved to current house and suddenly due to the bigger room size and so on, it suddenly lost the punch that i experienced before! Big headache, took me months to find optimum placement for the sub and adjustment of room arrangement, and now the bass sounds fantastic again.
If you put other subwoofer at the same place you put the ASW675 and it sounded wonderful... i am not sure then, perhaps different subwoofer has their own ideal spot in the same room???

[audioqueso]

Most DVD’s I buy are at least 5.1 or DTS. And I listen to a bunch of DVD-AUDIO.

I'm not making fun of you, but that's a funny statement. MOST DVDs are 5.1 or DTS.... period. lol

I just found it funny.

[Mike Gehring]

Dts... 5.1

I buy a lot of concert DVD's, unfortunatly there are many that arn't DTS or 5.1. Not knowing that's what I was talking about I can see your point. Does sound a little funny.

[akhter]

Anyone have a suggestion for a great sub that's compatible with the 604's. I have a Martin Logan GROTTO 10". This is an awesome sub but is lacking a bit in the low end.

I listen to a lot of hard rock, some rap, and a bunch of classic rock. Most DVD’s I buy are at least 5.1 or DTS. And I listen to a bunch of DVD-AUDIO.

I want tight sounding bass, but I also want that low end that makes your entire body rumble.

Not that I have to buy from my local Audiophile dealer but they are offering me a 100% credit toward a new sub. That's a $1000.00 credit. This is what they have to offer any suggestions?



ASW-300 - 8", 100W

ASW-600 - 10", 150W

ASW-650 - 12", 200W

ASW-675 - 10", 1000W

ASW-CM - 10", 1000W

ASW-700 - 10", Kevlar Pulp Cone

ASW-750 - 12", Kevlar Pulp Cone

ASW-800 - 12", 1000W

ASW-850 - 15", 1000W


Martin Logan - Dynamo

SS1 Long throw 10” woofer
SS2 Two long throw 10” woofers
SS4 Two long throw 15” woofers
Smart Sub Integrator
PX-02 Passive Subwoofer Crossover
PX-05 Passive Subwoofer Crossover

ASW-675, no question about it. One of my friends run a 604S3 with this, and the seamless integration alone is worth it--with any sub, you'll spend hours tweaking the settings, trying to make phase adjustments, and make the sub 'dissappear'. I have yet to hear a $1000 sub that can beat this puppy.

[RobP]

Mike, Love your aviatar!! :rofl: Gigigity, Gigigity.

[dan87951]

I beg to differ with you on all counts. If that were the case I don't think we would sell any and it is our most popular sub! As for no rumble or bass we've never heard that complaint in the HT room we have our demo set up in. Like I say don't tell me show me! All you have to do is go hear one for yourself. :T

Could be lack of options why you sell so many? But like I said in my opinion for the money there is MUCH better subs for the money. I had the ASW675 and I tried it in just about every spot that was possible with no big improvement what so ever. The only way to prove my point is go listen to the sub yourself. I felt the Paradigm PW-2200 was better in every respect and was cheaper to boot. Good Luck!

[Claude D D]

Could be lack of options why you sell so many? But like I said in my opinion for the money there is MUCH better subs for the money. I had the ASW675 and I tried it in just about every spot that was possible with no big improvement what so ever. The only way to prove my point is go listen to the sub yourself. I felt the Paradigm PW-2200 was better in every respect and was cheaper to boot. Good Luck!

You're entitled to your own opinion. Even if it is incorrect. :W I'm very familliar with the PW-2200 and it's a nice sub. But it is not up to the level of performance of the ASW-675.The 2200 is a ported 12" and sounds good for HT but can get a little loose with music,giving you "one note bass". The 675 is a sealed 10" with a much better driver and better braced cabinet, way more musical as well.Here's a couple of pics of a display unit we have in our store. From the build quality you can see why they are worth the asking price. I always encourage people to demo a variety of gear before making any purchase. In a forum anyone can toot their horn about this and that. But in the real world people come into our store(or the other a/v stores out there) and experience the equiptment first hand. I'm an audio enthusiast first and a sales guy second. This is a fun hobby.Enjoy it. :T

[dan87951]

You're entitled to your own opinion. Even if it is incorrect. :W I'm very familliar with the PW-2200 and it's a nice sub. But it is not up to the level of performance of the ASW-675.The 2200 is a ported 12" and sounds good for HT but can get a little loose with music,giving you "one note bass". The 675 is a sealed 10" with a much better driver and better braced cabinet, way more musical as well.Here's a couple of pics of a display unit we have in our store. From the build quality you can see why they are worth the asking price. I always encourage people to demo a variety of gear before making any purchase. In a forum anyone can toot their horn about this and that. But in the real world people come into our store(or the other a/v stores out there) and experience the equiptment first hand. I'm an audio enthusiast first and a sales guy second. This is a fun hobby.Enjoy it. :T

Yep my dealer has that as well for the ASW675. Your statement about the PW2200 is at best laughable and goes against just about every review I have read on that sub. :lol:

[asrovnal]

I use a b&w asw700 with a full complement of 700 series speakers. It provides more than enough bass for my medium size room. I think the 675 or the 700 would prove to be very compentent. I do not use the EQ switch on the 700, leave it a A setting. My denon 3806 has a stero setting with its own crossover setting, I use 40, for two channel listing. The 703s never sounded better. For HT (5.1) the crossover setting is 60, this blends in very well with the rest of the system.

[Shane Martin]

Claude,
Not to disagree with you but Tom Nousaine(an unbiased reveiewer for S&V) reviewed the 675 and got these results:

16 Hz at 73 dB SPL (EQ mode A)
25 Hz at 89 dB SPL (EQ mode B)
Max output 25-62hz is 98db.(this is the average max output between 25 and 62).

The PW2200 is listed as 108db. Like it or not, the extra 10db is huge.

The SVS 20-39(which is cheaper) and the Energy 12.3 both destroy both of these in terms of low end output. Being that is what the OP wanted, he would be better off going that route. For music, he could integrate his current sub and not be lacking when movies come on. The 675 as good as it is isn't going to make the body rumble.

Couple the 2200 or the SVS with a good BFD(eq) and you shouldn't have any issues integrating them. The DD velodynes have this type of thing built in.

i am not sure then, perhaps different subwoofer has their own ideal spot in the same room???

No. If you find the ideal spot in your room for your sub location, both subs(if you are comparing) should react the same way. Whether one has more output or not is another story.

I beg to differ with you on all counts. If that were the case I don't think we would sell any and it is our most popular sub!

Lots of people do not know what is out there. They simply listen and also take the word for the dealer. Some don't even care. They instantly believe or are taught to believe that their sub should come from the same speaker line they are buying. Most people just don't know what's out there especially when you are talking internet direct subwoofers which offer more bang for the buck.

[Claude D D]

Claude,
Not to disagree with you but Tom Nousaine(an unbiased reveiewer for S&V) reviewed the 675 and got these results:

16 Hz at 73 dB SPL (EQ mode A)
25 Hz at 89 dB SPL (EQ mode B)
Max output 25-62hz is 98db.(this is the average max output between 25 and 62).

The PW2200 is listed as 108db. Like it or not, the extra 10db is huge.

That may be true and like I said the 2200 is good for HT but the 675 is much more musical,faster and tighter. You get more definition with the bass notes with the 675 than you do with the 2200.
All I'm trying to say is that the ASW-675 is a very good sub(not the best or the worst) and is still a good value for the money. The 2200 is also a good sub and both units have their strenghts and weaknesses. Go listen at a competent dealer and decide for yourself. :T

As for "unbiased" reviewers, do you think they would ever say anything negative about a company that runs full page ads regularly in their magazine? If there is advertizing dollars at stake they would do nothing to jeopardize this. I read a review in one of the a/v mags not to long ago about a a/v receiver that the reviewer ranted about for pages claiming it was the best he had ever heard,even sounding better than hi-end separates that cost many times more(total B.S.) and on the next page there was a full page ad for this piece. It made me sick.But business is business.These guy aren't going to bite the hand that feeds them.

[texasbwfan]

I personally own the asw675 and absolutely love it. My sub is paired with 805's and an HTM3s center. For music, the sub is amazing...the detail and clarity is outstanding. For HT, I find myself constantly tweaking the sub for that 'just right' bass rumble. I'm not a fan of ported sub boxes in any application...personal preference. I guess that's why they make so many different subs...each has his/her own preference.

[george_k]

I don't know about pricing in the states but here in canada the servo-15 and asw-750 are roughly the same cost. If I have the time tomorrow I'm going into to demo the servo-15

[Shane Martin]

As for "unbiased" reviewers, do you think they would ever say anything negative about a company that runs full page ads regularly in their magazine?

True to a degree but they do review all sorts of things that are not advertising in their magazine. Besides these are #'s being listed and can be independently verified. If he gave it a glowing review calling it the fastest sounding sub ever blah blah blah you'd have a better point. Also consider the source which is TN who is very very very stringent in terms of Double blind testing. If there is an unbiased source, this is it.

For instance do you see a genelec advertisement in S&V? No.

For HT, I find myself constantly tweaking the sub for that 'just right' bass rumble.

You shouldn't need to.

[Claude D D]

For instance do you see a genelec advertisement in S&V? No.

You shouldn't need to.

But they do advertise in pro trade publications that have association with S&V. I'm not saying that it's not a great product. But magazines are just another medium to get us to consume.

[texasbwfan]

I shouldn't have to adjust my sub when listening to music / HT? I have my crossover set at 80khz...the sub is set at 68 and the volume is turned up to approximately 60%. What settings would you recommend that would stay constant for both music and HT? Thanks!

[Shane Martin]

the sub is set at 68 and the volume is turned up to approximately 60%. What settings would you recommend that would stay constant for both music and HT? Thanks!

Depends on your room and the levels you watch movies at. Because the B&W struggles with the deep nasty bass, usually you end up having to turn the gain up or the bass level up to "feel the bass". If you sub is capable and you have the proper placement, you shouldn't need to adjust it for each application.

Please note in any of this I do not consider B&W to be a bad product. I like their speakers(even though I went elsewhere) but I find their subs to be less than desirable for deep bass. The SVS 20-39 crushes the 675 for less money and is nearly 30 db louder at 25hz. Keep in mind that 10 db is considered twice loud for nearly every person so 30db is HUGE. There are tradeoffs to every design so I can live with the big box or tube for the deep bass I desire. Others sacrifice output for aethetics.

[Mike Gehring]

Thanks for all the feedback.

I guess the only issue I have going with the ASW 675 is that I'm replacing a 10" that I'm extremely pleased with in most aspects with another 10" sub. I know size doesn't mean better sound quality but in most instances it does mean deeper bass. Price is a consideration. I almost feel it's insane for me to spend upwards of 2000.00 for a sub. Maybe my expectations are too high.

The Martin Logan is an awesome sub. Just need some more umphh!

[rick c]

I just ordered the Grotto for myself and i'm using 603s3's for my mains.I thought it was a really good sub which is why i ended up ordering it.My understanding is that on the grotto there are several tweaks with the settings that could probably give you what your looking for.Have you tried playing with the 25hz control on the sub? I'm no expert but you can atleast give it a try.