803s - which amp+cd

[radim]

Hello,
I have b&w 803s.
I would like to buy a new amp and cd.

My tips are:
1. marantz PM-11S1 + SA-11S1
2. denon PMA-2000AE + DCD-2000AE

What is your opinion (experience) ?

Thanks, radim

[Kobus]

I have the same speakers and am upgrading to a new amp. Top of my list is the new rotel 1077. I think it is a winner and must surely be hard to beat at the price. Forget the 100w, I think it is underrated.

[radim]

rotel 1077 is 7ch power amp, or not ?
But I want 2ch integrated amp.

[RobP]

Radim, I would put at least 200w at least on those speakers, they really need that to drive the bass drivers, more would be better. But remember to go with a quality amp such as a Rotel, or if you can pull it off a Classe. You may also want to look into Musical Fidelity. They make nice equipment.

[audioqueso]

If you want matching components, I've only heard a few, but I really can't stop praising the Musical Fidelity A5 series. The intergrated amp has a lot of power and the CD player is just golden. Never heard it with 803s, but I'm sure it sounds beautiful with them. Definitely give MF a look.

[Karanthes]

Or you can try the Primare I30 with an additional A30.2. Audiophile sound and excellent build quality, gives 1.2 kVA, about 80 ampere or... 220 watt? Someone has also tested with excellent result 803S with AVI laboratory series int amp at about 175 watt, and 2/3 of the price of Primare. I would check out both, won't argue that they are better than rotel, but they are good and built to challenge much more expensive equipment with as identical sound as possible. Search google for tests... For cd usage I would actually use an ok cd player with s/pdif out or possibly more interesting an HTPC or DVD and the Benchmark DAC1. Same philosophy as Primare and Nad, audiophile sound. The Dac1 I've tested on a pair of 803D's for some weeks now (we have them where I work), and the Dac1 is... stunning
:jawdrop:

[nyny]

Radim, my current 2-channel set up consists of Marantz SA-11S1 + JRDG Concerto Integrated + 804S; and I love the music this setup produces (tight bass with great mids and highs). Prior to purchasing the 804S, I also auditioned the 803S with the Jeff Rowland and find them to be a perfect match as well (I end up getting the 804S due to WAF and space constraint).

SA-11S1 is simply an awesome CD/SACD player. It performs extremely well with both formats. You will need to pay a lot more to find anything tat's better.

You should really give this setup an audition, you might enjoy it as much as I have. Hope this helps.

[radim]

Thanks for yours replies.

I don't understand to it that more watts is better sound.
For example: the denon's top amp PMA-SA1 has only 2x100w (4ohm) and it is super model (ihmo).

radim

[Karanthes]

You're both right and wrong, common issue. More watt doesn't equal better sound. Check out the amp's VA or ampere (current) level. A speaker need enough current to start and stop the element correctly. More watt is usually an indication that the power reserves are better than for a lower spec'ed amp, i.e. got more current. So if you start with the Primare I30, you'll find that you have good sound. If you add another A30.2, you'll notice deeper and tighter bass, and you can play louder. This is due to more power reserves. But you have noted an important issue. Designing a good audiophile amp isn't magic, marketing is, and since you've got 803S, you got the point that using your money on the speakers is often a good idea!

[RebelMan]

don't understand to it that more watts is better sound.
For example: the denon's top amp PMA-SA1 has only 2x100w (4ohm) and it is super model (ihmo).

More watts does not necessarily mean better sound. Amplifiers that are capable of delivering more watts may sound better because they are more capable of closely following a speaker's impedance "curve" and produce less distortion at the levels required of it.

Speaker impedance levels are never flat. They vary with frequency and as a result greater demands are placed on the amplifier. Lets say you have a pair of speakers rated to be 100 watts into an 8 ohm load (nominal impedance). An amplifier that is rated to deliver say 100 watts into an 8 ohm load may not be good enough to deliver say 200 watts into an 4 ohm load, it can only deliver 150 watts. A prudent shopper that wants to match a good amplifier to their speakers would either look for an amplifier that could deliver 200 watts into an 8 ohm load or a 100 watt amplifier that could deliver 200 watts into an 4 ohm load because they also know that their speakers have a MINIMUM impedance level of 4 ohms and either one of these amplifiers would fit the bill.

This is an over simplified explaination as there are other factors to consider but I hope it illustrates the point.

[sikoniko]

I would keep denon amplification away from my 800 series speakers. far away.

have you looked into nuforce?

[audioqueso]

I don't understand to it that more watts is better sound.
For example: the denon's top amp PMA-SA1 has only 2x100w (4ohm) and it is super model (ihmo).

radim

Think of it like energy. Some speakers are strong (strong beautiful sound), but for full potential it needs more energy. So 100 watts will be enough to let it use it's power, but not to the fullest.

[radim]

My other tips are:

1. Accuphase E-308 + cd DP-57
2. Primare I-30 (inc. A30.2) + cd CD31
3. Rotel RC1090/RB1090 + cd 1072
4. Classe ( what minimal lines amp + cd ??? )

is this better for 803s ?

radim

[sikoniko]

have you compared rotel to other brands? I don't like Rotel. and yes, I used to have one. My opinion is that rotel is great for 805 and below, but to get the most out of your speakers, you want to move up a notch.

classe is nice but really pricey. look into something that will give you the best bang for your buck. that is why I chose the cinnenova grande5. I ordered a pair of nuforce ref9's to power my n802's, but it did a good job. very comparable to bryston at half the price.

[RobP]

sikoniko, what did you use to power your 802's before the Nuforce? the cinnenova?

[K.K.]

I am using a Musical Fidelty kW500 with my pair of 803s. Love it. And plenty of power too with 500w into 8 ohms per channel. But it's a limited edition model, so not sure whether you can find one easily.

As for the CD, I am using an Arcam FMJ CD23. This is quite an old model although I use an external Grace Design m902 DAC with it, which seems fine to me. And I use a Marantz DV9500 for SACD & DVD-Audio. But I have heard that the Marantz MA-11 thingy to be top class stuff especially for the price and definitely demo that first.

Enjoy!

[sikoniko]

Yes, I had been using the cinnenova to power my 802's and it sounded great!

[stewfoo]

But, that cinenova is so darn ugly. I too have 803s and htm3s.... I use a rotel 1095 5x200. I was considering the cinenova especially because I can get one at dealer cost. But, the looks were so bad that I held off. I have a gorgeous system...aesthetic are important to me. So, I went with Rotel. I am unhappy with my 1068 processor that has started to fail in a couple ways and the video swithching is crap. I will probably move up to a Classe system.. But, it is too expensive... Only time will tell
Stew

[Zoran]

My other tips are:

1. Accuphase E-308 + cd DP-57
2. Primare I-30 (inc. A30.2) + cd CD31
3. Rotel RC1090/RB1090 + cd 1072
4. Classe ( what minimal lines amp + cd ??? )

is this better for 803s ?

radim

Consider a few items more:

Krell KAV 2250 (4000USD). No personal experience with it, but must be very good (2kVA transformer, excellent output transistors, great lay-out...) - step above KAV-400xi integrated (great sound, but modest electronic/cooling potentials, despite nominal 200Wpc).

Pass X150.5 or X-250.5 (bigger Pass amps would be overkill for 803S).

Good luck

[radim]

Zoran, your opinions are very important for me, but
1. my budget is limitted (us and canada products are little overpriced in the us)
2. not all dealers are around me

But I have another two questions (and maybe tips)

1. yesterday i had reading on primare.net they have hot new power amp A32 and with great specifications:
- full balanced
- 2x250w/8ohm, 2x400w/4ohm
- 1,5kVa transformer and 90,000mf capacitance per channel

2. my question about Musical Fidelity
- is line A5 (pre+amp) competence for my 803s, or I need higher line
- is cd A5 competence, too

thanks, radim

[dan87951]

I have the same speakers (avatar) and I have a Rotel RB-1080 powering them. Sounds great. If your on a budget like me Rotel makes great amps with good power supplies!

[K.K.]

2. my question about Musical Fidelity
- is line A5 (pre+amp) competence for my 803s, or I need higher line
- is cd A5 competence, too

So far I have had two MF amplifiers and am happy with both. I don't know much about the A5 but I am sure it's powerful enough for the 803s at 250wpc in 8 ohms and 400wpc into 4 ohms. The kW500 that I have did better at the bass end with the extra power when I demoed with the A5 separates. Even though the kW500 is an integrated, its power supply, which is as large as some standalone amps, is separate from the amp itself. This provides separate power supplies to the two power amp and the pre-amp modules. The combined weight is more than 60lbs.

The A5 cd has good reviews (checkout www.musicalfidelity.com for reviews) although I have not heard it before.

[Zoran]

Zoran, your opinions are very important for me, but
1. my budget is limitted (us and canada products are little overpriced in the us)
2. not all dealers are around me

But I have another two questions (and maybe tips)

1. yesterday i had reading on primare.net they have hot new power amp A32 and with great specifications:
- full balanced
- 2x250w/8ohm, 2x400w/4ohm
- 1,5kVa transformer and 90,000mf capacitance per channel

2. my question about Musical Fidelity
- is line A5 (pre+amp) competence for my 803s, or I need higher line
- is cd A5 competence, too

thanks, radim

New Primare power? Finally... I've heard some rumours a few months ago. Not visited Primare web yet, but it must be very, very serious. Power supply as you described seems to be very well abled to rock big speakers...

One note. As a general rule - if possible, don't buy anything from the very first batch of production. Many problems possible with early samples... You can find many related info throughout Internet. Last one I've read was Stereophile finding of problematic measurments in the Pass Labs XA 160 review - early sample reviewed suffered some technical troubles.

Zoran, Macedonia

[Zoran]

Radim

I failed finding any info on the new Primare power amp (A 32?) you specified. Unfortunately, Primare web is not available today for opening (updating process?) - googling didn't show me any other info source about this new amp...

Could you send us the A 32 related link?

[radim]

link is:

http://www.primare.net/00002/00041/00054/00135/default.asp

radim

[Zoran]

Thanx Radim,

Visit this link (some Swedish forum) - a few nice pictures of A32...

http://www.component.se/forum/index.php?showtopic=3498

[radim]

Primare amp A32 looks really great.
The decision is more complex now.
Musical Fidelity (A5) or Primare ???

radim

[Zoran]

Primare!!! Don't hesitate. If affordable (BTW, info about the A32 price, anyone?), this must be one of the hottest amp choices arround. Paired with PRE30, sounds like killer combo!
Again, a certain level of alert relating the very first production batches, as I pointed before.

[radim]

The price A32 is the same like the primare sp31 (in collation).

[radim]

By the way, knows anybody powers from Mars Sound Design ?