802D or 803D Quandry

[DrJRapp]

A direct quote from a woman who has seen and heard her fair share of loudspeakers. 8)

It always amazes me at what some people say to try to justify an indefensable point in their own minds. That logic totally escapes me, Yeah she has seen a lot of speakers. Does that make her an expert on art and design? I don't think so. Perhaps her idea of art is her 3 yo's crayon drawings on her fridge..... Has she ever earned ten cents judging art and design, has anyone here on this forum even made a meager living at it?

On the other hand, I get paid very big bucks to design and build space and select art for peoples houses, high end lawyers offices, showplaces, all the SE regional Saks 5th Avenue Stores, all the Hair Cuttery stores. That ability and taste doesn't dissapear when it comes to judging speakers for my own house. I'm not trying to seem like a snob or make myself seem better than anyone, I'm just stating facts. Verifiable facts.

I've seen a lot of computer networks, does that qualify me as a Systems Administrator?....by your logic it should, but reality is altogether something else.

[caleb]

Blimey ! do we ever get off topic and start talking crap! ! 8O

For goodness sake, get the 802 and you'll never regret it.

[Matt M.]

Hello

This is my first intervention in this forum and Englih is not my moter tongue, so I apologise in advance fot my possible mistakes.

I know all the new 800 range (and in particular the 803D and 802D), because I tested them, several times (mainly with Classe CAM400 and
CA2200).

My opinion is there is a strong tonal similarity between all the 80xD models,
and they sound a bit differently from the 'S' models. It is probably due to
the tweeter, but also to the specific filter used.

Concerning 803D and 802D models, therer is obviously a difference, but it
didn't appear to be a huge difference to me.
The 802D is a bit more detailed in the medium, but above all, it is more
airy, more "opened" (they give a better impression of "pushing walls away").
This is the main contribution of the specific head.

But both offer the outstanding tone quality, which is what I
appreciate particularly in this new range.

The question is: is it worth addind 4000$ (or € in Europe) for the difference ?
I would answer, that depends !
We should keep in mind that the 802D is much more demanding, in term of
amplification and room. It is much easier to get a outstanding result with
the 803D.
They offer the best compromise between sound quality,
price, and the difficulty to drive and to put in.
In my case (I don't have room enough for 802s), it was the
best solution, so I bought them ! :P
And I devoted the difference to the HTM2D.

But if you have budget (for both the speaker and the electronic: IMO,
CA2200, or equivalent, and more are a good basis for those speakers), and
room to allow them to give their best, then the 802D worth it.
They have indisputably a higher potential !

Besides, the model I prefered in the new range was the 801D. If I had the possibility, I wouldn't hesitate !

[RobP]

Jerry,

I know that this is a B&W forum, and I will probably get flogged for suggesting this here ops: , but have you considered Wilson Audio Watt Puppys or the Sophias? Although the shape does not lend itself to the style of decor that you have, but you can pick your own colors which gives you some flexibilty.

Another speaker which I like is the Vienna Acoustics Mahler, they sound terrific and come in a few different finishes, the one I have listed below would look good in a old world decor. Although I have not seen your decor, I designed my homes interior in the old Tuscan style, and these would look great in my home. :T

[roundmound]

This thread seems to have an elitist tone to it. As a frequent reader and seldom poster, I respect Dr. J's opinions and technical analyses of equipment, but one important point is being forgotten - beauty and art are in the eye of the beholder. I would not hire most of the professional designers on HGTV as I do not care for their style. To each their own. I just wish I could recommend a model of speaker which is more in line with Dr. J's style.

[RebelMan]

That ability and taste doesn't dissapear when it comes to judging speakers for my own house.

It does beg the question why a self proclaimed expert would consider the over the top modern designs of Wilson Audio speakers over B&W for a traditional setting. :roll:

I personally know of three professional individuals each with more than 15 years of practice in their respective line of work and holding advanced degrees in Architecture, Interior Design and Graphic Art that might take exception to this line of thinking.

I've seen a lot of computer networks, does that qualify me as a Systems Administrator?....by your logic it should, but reality is altogether something else.

Unless you hold a B.S. degree in Software Engineering, I suppose not. The reality is that you don't hold a degree in "art" either. :W

[DrJRapp]

Unless you hold a B.S. degree in Software Engineering, I suppose not. The reality is that you don't hold a degree in "art" either. :W

I suppose my MS in Architecture doesn't count as far as you're concerned. Additionally, I'm certified by ASID after having attended their 16 week certification program (just for kicks). I don't even use my PhD in Engineering, just got that for kicks (and the Navy/NASA) also.

[PavelL]

Okay quit picking on Jerry, he's a good guy....(and getting back on topic more or less)l

Jerry! Would you pls stop picking on everyone here! Get BACK to YOUR topic!!! You originally asked if anyone HEARD the 803D. Is it the sound or the looks you are after? Why on earth should an expert like yourself /of "high-end" caliber no less/ care for an advice on 803 & 802 looks? And if you really need advice - do not forget to thank everyone. ;x( And be a man AND make a decision. Let me remind you of the fact that your topic is "802D or 803D quandAry". If you have questions do ask - hopefully there is someone left who will care for an answer.

[Blazar]

DrJRapp I don't think the issue is with your qualifications... There are people that are quite good at design that have no qualifications and there are people with a great eye who have no design ability but have "taste" (whatever that is).

In either case, I'm using 802D's now and they sound stunning. They will sound even better when my room treatment materials come in. I hope you are using your design skills to incorporate "hidden" room treatments into these expensive interiors... otherwise DONT bother putting ultra-expensive speakers into those environments, B&W speakers or otherwise.

Of all the speakers I've seen, the B&W line seems to fit well into so many environments, old or new. If you want a "recreation" of Tuscany there shouldn't be any speakers.... and you should setup some hidden in-wall's or something. One must make some exceptions for practicality and functionality in the design process... otherwise we might as well skip the microwave oven and the telephone. Show me a Tuscany telephone or a Tuscany lightbulb.

The design environment must accomodate new technology and materials unless you are really looking for an "authentic" historic environment.

[springer49]

I just recently sold my 803D's. I had them for about 5 months and loved the sound and the looks. I just ordered the 802D's for the main reason that I felt they sounded better and they also looked better ( To Me). And thats all that matters!!

[RebelMan]

I suppose my MS in Architecture doesn't count as far as you're concerned. Additionally, I'm certified by ASID after having attended their 16 week certification program (just for kicks). I don't even use my PhD in Engineering, just got that for kicks (and the Navy/NASA) also.

My opinions about that would take us even further off topic so I will pass. However, they do say knowledge acquired and not applied is useless.

Back on topic, I believe either of the two speakers, 803Ds or 802Ds, would accentuate your room nicely. Perhaps the 803Ds more, as they are the more conservative of the two. However, acoustically speaking, the 802D's driver compliment is more tonally balanced which makes it clearly the better performer. Either one should suit your needs depending on your priorities.

If appearances are playing a bigger role for you pick the 803Ds otherwise go with the 802Ds.

[misterdoggy]

802D's deserve a bravo for Design

DrJRapp,

I Go to Italy which is about 1 hour away all the time. I spent every summer for the last 25 years in Tuscany in Marina di Pietra Santa and Viareggio (fluent in Italian and French).

I sell lots of Vintage posters to designers in your Area. Check out my website http://www.posterclassics.com for Italian and French Vintage posters.

The 802D and 803D aren't comparing Apples for Apples and there is no question that anyone would gladly change their 803D for an 802D. The only psychological justification could be $$.

Although its true the little lady was shocked at the size of the beast, the design deserves recognition IMHO. I studied Design and Art my entire life, and for me the 802D's are to speakers what "memphis design " was to furniture. What Frank Lloyd Wright and Antonio Gaudi's designs were to Architecture.

In fact the shell tops of the 800, 801 and 802 are reminiscent of the Crusader chiminey's in Gaudi's Casa Milan.

If you have them you will love them more and more every day. go for the 802D's.

[caleb]

Another off topic post...

Rewritten by Aussie Geoff to make language and tone acceptable.

[Aussie Geoff]

Everyone,

Please... No more discussions about visual aesthetics... It's a personal preference and no amount of posting is going to convince anyone to change their mind either way... People aren't wrong becuase they like / dislike the look of the speakers / archiecture / whatever...

Any remaining posts in this thread should limit themselves to the Audio capabilities of the 803D vs 802D....

Geoff

[misterdoggy]

Aussie Geoff,

I missed what you deleted ? Sorry I didn't see it first.

My discussion about the "design" qualities of the 802D, I feel are "on" subject as speaker design is more than just a box these days.

I feel B&W have made several breakthroughs in speaker design, both visually and sonically.

My comparison to Art and Architecture is valid.

Many people on the thread seem to just "put up" with the look of the 802D's, while I marvel. !!

Furniture is an accepted Art Form, and I know people that sell desks from the 1970's for $150,000. One day who knows, people might pay for the sheer design of you 802D's 50 years from now.

If this is a B&W forum, then there is more than the audio capabilities to consider. After all, many of us chose our Hifi equipment because its sexy looking, or whatever, but the esthetics of B&W versus brand X is IMHO part of the forum.

One last note: Art and Music and Design is a very important aspect of "my" life. When I chose B&W I was originally drawn by the Look. :T

[RebelMan]

Geoff, I respect your position as moderator and contributor and your input is appreciated. Barring that, I would have to concur with Bruce (misterdoggy) that our opinons about B&W speakers shouldn't be limited to just one thing. After all, what we hear is just as subjective as what we see.

[RobP]

I would have to agree with Rebelman and misterdoggy on this point as well, the visual impact that a speaker has in the room is just as important as the sound, just ask any wife of an audio nut :lol: . The design of the B&W speaker is what caught my eye when I walked into my local audio shop, and I knew if they looked that good then they must sound as good.

My wife actually liked the looks of the N802 better than my N803's, she wanted me to get them instead just based on how they looked.

[Aussie Geoff]

Rebelman and MisterDoggy,

Let me make myself clearer... Its fine for you or anyone else to express an opinion about the aesthetics, or any other aspect of B&W speakers in this forum.. No restrictions..

What I was trying to say was that the discussion in this thread had degenerated to people posting basically variations of the same thing "B&W 800 series is beautiful / artistic / aesthetically pleasing" and "B&W 800 series don't fit in with Tuscan decor" It was (and is) clear that no one was going to change their mind. It was also unfortunately that the opinions were strong enough that the discussion was starting to become personal (not a good thing)... Hence my request to limit the posts to the audio qualities….

For your interest - when I saw the pictures of the 802D I thought it was ugly... However when I saw it in real life - I admired its looks... A collegue can't stand the appearance - calls them "Darleks"...

Geoff

[misterdoggy]

Geoff

I'm sure the designers at B&W who might read our threads, will greatly appreciate that their efforts are recognized.

Its not by chance nor audio obligation solely, that speakers take their form.

Its interesting to note that both in 'architecture' and in 'speaker design' they must incorporate functionality, but would go nowhere without esthetics.

[Kobus]

Rebelman and MisterDoggy,

It was also unfortunately that the opinions were strong enough that the discussion was starting to become personal (not a good thing)... Hence my request to limit the posts to the audio qualities….

Geoff

We knew that this was the MAIN reason. Just say so!
The night before this post of yours I told the wife that this discussion was going to be stopped.
You did the only thing that you could do, but obviously we all would have loved for it to go on.

[Kent Turb0]

what is "quandry" oh wonderful doctor

[misterdoggy]

what is "quandry" oh wonderful doctor

Kent,

The word is actually "Quandary" A state of uncertainty or perplexity. or predicament.

[bigburner]

Kent,

The word is actually "Quandary" A state of uncertainty or perplexity. or predicament.

"disease, heartbreak...they all go together...joe found out the hard way, but his troubles were just beginning...his mind was so messed up...he could hardly do nothin'...he was in a quandary..."

Lucille Has Messed My Mind Up - Frank Zappa

[Pieter]

Yes, the state that this thread finds itself in.

[Stevebez]

Yup - where are we ? where's Jerry ?

Go on Jerry get the 802D's ... its unlikely you will want to get rid of them for 803D's ...

Rgds Steve.

[misterdoggy]

Has she ever earned ten cents judging art and design, has anyone here on this forum even made a meager living at it?

Dear Dr,

I make my living at selling and creating Art ? Maybe more than you ? You shouldn't assume all of us here on the forum are stupid.

To make the choice to buy B&W 802D's or B&W's would be a sign of intelligence :T

Therefore most forum members are intelligent !! ;x(

[Aussie Geoff]

Guys,

I asked very nicely - but you can't resist with making it personal...

Thread closed..

Geoff