Review of my new 803Ds

[bigburner]

Two weeks ago I became an 803D owner.

I can only compare the new 803Ds to the CDM9NTs that they replaced as the combination of my listening room and my gear is one of a kind (as they all are).

The tweeter in the 803D is a big improvement over the CDM9NT, which was too bright for some recordings and lead to fatigue over extended listening periods. I think this brightness may have been a flaw in the design of the crossover in the CDM9NT because I’m sure the same tweeter is used in lots of B&W models. The 803D is very smooth and stays smooth at high volume. Overall I’m very happy with this aspect of my new 803Ds.

The midrange is pretty similar on both speakers with both of them having the Kevlar midrange FST. The midrange on the CDM9NT is the main feature of that speaker and I have never had any criticisms in that area.

The bass on the 803Ds is much fuller than the CDM9NTs, which is what I expected and wanted. However it might be slightly less tight than the CDM9NTs, which produced very precise bass. I’m not saying that the bass on the 803Ds is bloated or boomy. It is just different. It would be interesting to hear the two speakers side by side. To get the bass performance I wanted from my CDM9NT system I was configuring my ASW750 sub to play up to 120 Hz and sometimes even as high as 160 Hz. In the current setup the 803Ds are playing 80 Hz and above, and the sub is playing 80 Hz and below. When I upgrade my amp (I want more power) I will experiment with running the 803Ds at full range and the sub playing 60 Hz and below (a kick drum is 60 Hz and my sub can move a lot more air than the 803D). But that’s in the future. in the meantime I’m really happy with the improvement provided by the 803Ds.

I have experimented with the position of the 803Ds to improve the imaging and soundstage. The sheer weight of the 803Ds makes this a challenge. I like to keep my floorstanders close to the wall when not in use and then pull them forward for critical listening. This was much easier with the CDM9NTs. I’m a fine physical specimen (yeah right) so this is not a big problem. Once the 803Ds have been pulled out and toed in slightly, I think that the imaging is an improvement over the CDM9NTs. The size of the soundstage is similar, but again it would be interesting to hear the two speakers side by side. I’m using the rubber feet supplied by B&W as spikes are not an option with my lovely wooden floors.

One small area of disappointment with the 803Ds is their performance at low volume. They don’t have much presence. They are definitely better than the CDM9NTs though, which sounded like a transistor radio. I wonder whether this is an issue with all B&W speakers. Even at the B&W shop I thought the 801Ds and 804Ss they had on display lacked presence at very low volume, and they were being driven by Classé amps of some description. In contrast all the Paradigm speakers I’ve listened to have had good presence at low volume. Have other members experienced this? Am I imagining it? Perhaps all I need is that powerful amp I mentioned earlier? I think I’m convincing myself.

All in all I’m a happy chappy and I have no regrets shelling out more money than my car is worth, but that’s one of the definitions of being an audiophile isn’t it? Actually I’m not an audiophile; I just like music.

By the way, my CDM9NTs have gone to my 20 year old son who has a Pro Tools studio in his bedroom. He loves them for mixing and mastering because they are so precise.

Nigel.

[ShadowZA]

Congratulations on your new 803D's, Nigel!

I found that my time spent listening actually doubled when those amazing diamond tweeters took up residence here. I have no doubt that you are going to enjoy them. You might want to position yor 803D's out into the room a bit (not too close to the walls). Bass is always a tricky issue and my faith lies in acoustic treatments (curtains with acoustic lining, thick carpets eveywhere - even on walls where possible, bass traps - which I have not used yet). The 803D's do love power. Lots of it. Let me not hold you up any longer. Sit back, kick your feet up ... you know what to do. :T

[Briz vegas]

Congratulations on the new speakers.

My B&W dealer commented on the need for a very special amp to get the best from the 803D so I am not surprised that you are contemplating something with more grunt.

Bass Traps - definitely. One of the best things I have implemented. It has benefits right across the frequency range. Of course there are WAF issues that can make it difficult, but if you can I highly recommend them. Thanks to the traps I am more than happy with my bass on the "little" 804s.

Other thoughts
- What power distribution strip are you using. I'm a bit fan of the Qbase - you may be surprised at the improvement with bass from one of these when plugged straight to the wall socket
- Vibration control - I'm a broken record on this one but again its a great way of getting the best from those fancy speakers.

[Briz vegas]

PS.....and I forgot to mention; if you want presence at low volume then I would recommend panel speakers - I have always been amazed at the sound from Martin Logans and Quads when the volume is down.

My 804s don't sound like a transistor radio at low volume (the amp currently reads 00, the lowest setting, and they still sound quite good) but B&Ws definitely come alive with at least moderate volume.

[timjclark]

BigBurner: Checkout the Superspikes by Soundcare. I have them on my 803S's and they allow me to have them "spiked" on my hardwoods and still slide them. It's basically a spike and bottom disk assembly all in one. They helped my sound over the rubber feet by tightening the bass and it feels more extended as well. I have the least expensive model which look kinda cheap. I'd like to upgrade to the titanium ones just for the looks. Enjoy those 803Ds!! I'm envious.

[beden1]

Unfortunately, your Rotel equipment is not going to do much for your 803Ds. My 803Ds really opened up and produce very solid and tight bass when I went to Classe CAM-350 mono amps and the Classe SSP-800. I actually just listened to my system today after 3 months of not being here, and I was amazed at how great it sounds.

More clean power gives you a fuller sound at low and high volumes.

The Paradigm speakers are very efficient, and do not require as much power to drive them at lower volumes. But, IMO, they are better suited for HT than for stereo.

I do think my new 804Di's that I recently bought for a stereo system in our other house are easier to drive at low volumes.

[Pedro]

Nice review, i just saw and commented your video at youtube bro :T

About 801D playing low volume it´s ok to me, and the 803D is less detailed in the mids in this level of volume. Probably is a character of some speakers. I listened to Dyns C4 and 5.4 and they also play well at high volumes.

I read many posts in the past you were not so happy with your CDM9 specially because the treble, when you listened to you hard and heavy rock stuff. I expect know you´re really satisfied with your music taste

[Pedro]

sorry it wasnt yours, but the friend of another thread

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SURFfBBnTE

[bigburner]

Since writing my review I've had more time to experiment with my new 803Ds and sort out the bass issues I had initially. In summary I am now delighted with the quality of the bass. The solution was:

* Pulling the 803Ds out into the room more.
* Reducing the toe in. It is now very slight.
* Reducing the gain on the subwoofer slightly.
* Setting the EQ on the preamp to 1pm for bass and 1.30pm for treble.

I used the recent stereo remaster of The Beatles "Abbey Road" to assist me in the tuning process. Paul McCartney's outstanding bass guitar work on this album is perfect for the job. He plays the full range of frequencies and includes some very subtle runs and flourishes that are difficult to detect. "Lifting the veil" is a much overused cliché in this hobby but I can genuinely claim that I have never appreciated McCartney's bass work quite as much before, and I've heard Abbey Road hundreds of times in my life.

Nigel.

[dukester]

Since writing my review I've had more time to experiment with my new 803Ds and sort out the bass issues I had initially. In summary I am now delighted with the quality of the bass. The solution was:

* Pulling the 803Ds out into the room more.
* Reducing the toe in. It is now very slight.
* Reducing the gain on the subwoofer slightly.
* Setting the EQ on the preamp to 1pm for bass and 1.30pm for treble.

I used the recent stereo remaster of The Beatles "Abbey Road" to assist me in the tuning process. Paul McCartney's outstanding bass guitar work on this album is perfect for the job. He plays the full range of frequencies and includes some very subtle runs and flourishes that are difficult to detect. "Lifting the veil" is a much overused cliché in this hobby but I can genuinely claim that I have never appreciated McCartney's bass work quite as much before, and I've heard Abbey Road hundreds of times in my life.

Nigel.

Thanks Nigel for the follow up. Due to my space constraints my set is only about 1' from the rear wall and 1.5' from the sides with about 10 degrees of toe-in, aiming at each ear (I sit 8' away on a carpeted floor). I too experience your low volume concerns and thought that was a product of not enough power (currently 180/ch). Initially, my next upgrade was a bigger sub but am now considering more power. I guess i'll let economics decide and go with the better deal that first presents itself. I digress. Were you able to address the your low volume concerns in your adjustments?

This might be an interesting read for you...it describes low level listening.

http://www.rotel.com/content/reviews/amplifiers/rb1080_stereophile_mar2k2.pdf

[bigburner]

Were you able to address the your low volume concerns in your adjustments?

No, not really dukester. The 803Ds are definitely an improvement over my previous speakers though. I have concluded that in my setup these speakers perform better at a higher volume.

The recent improvements have made me in less of a hurry to upgrade my amplifier. I'm sure that some improvements are there to be had but there's no rush - well not this week anyway.

Thank you for the link. It has been a while since I last read that review but I remember that it influenced my decision to buy an RB-1080. I value Kal's opinion a lot now that I have read his contributions to this forum.

Nigel.

[Birdy]

One small area of disappointment with the 803Ds is their performance at low volume. They don’t have much presence. They are definitely better than the CDM9NTs though, which sounded like a transistor radio. I wonder whether this is an issue with all B&W speakers. Even at the B&W shop I thought the 801Ds and 804Ss they had on display lacked presence at very low volume, and they were being driven by Classé amps of some description. In contrast all the Paradigm speakers I’ve listened to have had good presence

Nigel.

Have the same "issue" with "old" 802d, I was hoping that the new Di series would resolve this

[beden1]

Have the same "issue" with "old" 802d, I was hoping that the new Di series would resolve this

I think the 804Di performs very well at lower volumes, and perhaps better than do my 803Ds. The 804Di seems to be more open and less constrained overall.

[stuofsci02]

I think the 804Di performs very well at lower volumes, and perhaps better than do my 803Ds. The 804Di seems to be more open and less constrained overall.

I would agree with this. I auditioned them both back to back..

My review ended up under an inappropriately named thread..

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=37594

[Pedro]

But since i heard 804S and 803D, the 804S was just more open and revealing in the mids. The 804S wasnt never better of course, but i would say it´s the signature sound of each speaker. Probably the 804Di still more open than 803Di specially for lower volumes. That´s why i changed my 803D to the 801D which couldnt agree it lacks detail at lower volumes. There are songs i could hear more details at lower level than at highs for example :roll:

[BassThatHz]

I don't have a problem of picking up details at lower volumes.
The RT60 of my room is between 0.1s and 0.25s from 100hz to 20khz with less than +-5db SPL fluctuation. (<100hz it is still under 0.4s)

Curious, what is your guys's?

[beden1]

I don't have a problem of picking up details at lower volumes.
The RT60 of my room is between 0.1s and 0.25s from 100hz to 20khz with less than +-5db SPL fluctuation. (<100hz it is still under 0.4s)

Curious, what is your guys's?

I'm not sure if anyone is lacking details, but the fullness of the sound at lower volumes.

[beden1]

But since i heard 804S and 803D, the 804S was just more open and revealing in the mids. The 804S wasnt never better of course, but i would say it´s the signature sound of each speaker. Probably the 804Di still more open than 803Di specially for lower volumes. That´s why i changed my 803D to the 801D which couldnt agree it lacks detail at lower volumes. There are songs i could hear more details at lower level than at highs for example :roll:

But, your 801Ds are no more efficient than the other Diamond Series speakers at 90dB @1m.

The problem with all of the B&W speakers, and most modern speakers for that matter, is that they are just not designed to operate efficiently. You need an efficient speaker to produce a full body of sound at low volumes.