802D or 803D Quandry

[DrJRapp]

I'm in a quandry right now debating between the two. The HDM2D will be the center regardless of which mains I choose. I've heard the 802Ds but not the 803Ds. A dealer has assured me that the overall sound is similar. Can anyone comment?

My wife doesn't really like the looks of B&W to start with. She seen the 803D and has already asked if I can remove the handle from the top..lol I'm afraid that the headlight on top of the 802 (along with the handle) will really send her into seizures. I'm sure in a contemporary setting that the look would be fine, but not in a traditional setting.

[PewterTA]

lol that's what's funny, everyone that I show the 802s to, they absolutely love the look of them (women that is)... But I guess it does have to go with one's room. Though I don't know how the 802s can "not" go with a room...they are artwork!

The 802s and 803s do have an "overall" similiar sound to them. The 802s just go above and beyond what the 803s accomplish. The bass on the 802s is noticeably better. The mid range is also more defined and transparent. The highs are where both come awfully closer together (IMO).

There's been enough difference that for me, I'm trying to justify the 803Ds (since they are cheaper and I can afford them sooner)...but the 802s still get me in a side by side demo. I'm figuring at this price point, might as well go with the 802s and just get what I really want because I doubt I'll ever buy another set a speakers, as I don't have to have the absolute end-all be-all of speakers.

Heck my 604s are phenominal to me, but I've heard the entire 800 line and am now kicking myself for it... hee hee. Sometimes it's just better being in the dark about things (and cheaper). ha ha ha

[Sim reality]

lol that's what's funny, everyone that I show the 802s to, they absolutely love the look of them (women that is)... But I guess it does have to go with one's room. Though I don't know how the 802s can "not" go with a room...they are artwork!

I was thinking the same thing! Just cover your tracks by buying some Art Deco painting and such at the same time.

You could introduce it by saying: "You know honey... I think I feel like an art deco motif in our livingroom... I think we should start with... The speakers!"

[miner]

I'm in a quandry right now debating between the two. The HDM2D will be the center regardless of which mains I choose. I've heard the 802Ds but not the 803Ds. A dealer has assured me that the overall sound is similar. Can anyone comment?

My wife doesn't really like the looks of B&W to start with. She seen the 803D and has already asked if I can remove the handle from the top..lol I'm afraid that the headlight on top of the 802 (along with the handle) will really send her into seizures. I'm sure in a contemporary setting that the look would be fine, but not in a traditional setting.

I am sure a 2 ct diamond princess cut against the backdrop of the 802D would look rather appealing.

[Kobus]

posted twice, sorry - please delete if possible

[Kobus]

you guys are evil.
where will I end up?

Jerry, based on assumptions we must assume that the 802's are better.
Which one looks best for you.
And I can not wait for you to have them so we can listen to your opinion.

Kobus

[dyazdani]

Problem solved! "Handles" removed for you...

eBay N804 Link

[DrJRapp]

lol that's what's funny, everyone that I show the 802s to, they absolutely love the look of them (women that is)... But I guess it does have to go with one's room. Though I don't know how the 802s can "not" go with a room...they are artwork!

I just guess we have different taste here in Palm Beach. Everyone I show them too think they are "funky"...that's a direct quote. See my website if you really want to see class and "art" in design.

https://www.luxurybuilders.com

Note to moderators...I'm not advertising... the house shown is already sold, just making a point.

This whole thing may turn into a moot point. I just came from a dealer today where I was "attempting" to listen to the 803D. I listened as the dealer apologized because one of the tweeters had a "cracked" diamond dome. This is the second incidence that I have heard of this happening (from different sources). It looks like diamond's brittleness in that thin an assembly may be turning out to be a problem after all. If I hear more I'm definitly changing directions on this isssue towards Wilson or Revel

[Aussie Geoff]

Jerry,

I have extensively compared the 803D and 802D for stereo... I really wanted to like the 803D (I had the money ready)... But once I heard the 802D I couldn't consider the 803D... IMO the 803D, while very good, is a league below the calibre of the 802D.

The midrange of the 803D still has a moderate level of that boxy / closed midrange that so many speakers have (from their boxes apparently). The 802D has an unbelievable midrange - so pure it just floats in the air... And the bass of the 802D is tighter and better controlled...

Lastly the sound stage - the 802D was able to fill the room with 3D sound - a perfect stereo image even standing literally between the speakers. It was like the room had a living sound field in it with invisible instruments and singers.... Again the 803D just didn't have this extra dimension in sound stage - possible due to the more coloured midrange...

Oh - and re the diamond tweeter B&W have generally only had issues when they are either poorly removed from the crate (someone using the tweeter as a handle) or someone takes the cover off the tweeter (held on by magnets) to see the tweeter and knocks it with the cover (the magnets are quite strong).... Besides - the tweeter is covered against faults by a 5 year international warrantee... Don't let this put you off... They are magnificent speakers – which a number of reviewers rate as up there in the top 5 or 6 in the world right now... Driven with the right equipment they are truly a revelation...

Geoff

[DrJRapp]

Geoff

I noticed the boxy midrange on the 804s, driven by an RSX 1067. I guess it isn't much better on the 803D. I'll have to listen seriously to each midrange. I'm now considering keeping my Klipsch for the theater aspect and going with one or the other for 2 channel only. I'll wind up keeping my 2 channel listening in the family room in that case.

The dealer had mentioned that the front ring had fallen off the tweeter, but said nothing about the diaphram coming off ...just that it had cracked.

On Wed I'm driving down to Miami to another dealer where hopefully I will finally get to hear the 803D.

[Gump]

Jerry,

The 803D's are amazing speakers and I can't say enough flattering things about them. I've owned mine for about a month now and the "wow" factor is still there for me. Right out of their boxes they sounded great and they haven't slowed down since. My previous set-up was with 604's and to get that full, enveloping sound I had to pretty much stick with multi-channel music sources. 2 channel just wasn't there. Well that's all changed now. I am re-discovering all my cd's and the excitement and satisfaction of 2-channel music. I would not hesitate to enthusiastically recommend these speakers to anyone.

I think they look great also. My wife, however, agrees with yours' and thinks "that thing" on the top looks silly. I tried to convince her that it makes the speakers look "fast" but she's not buying it. She has slowly become accustomed to them and accepted them into our "family".

The main difference between the 803D and 802D is bass. The bass from the 803D's is excellent and more than satisfying. But the 802D's bass is phenomenal. It's tight and through the floor. My stereo guru was demo-ing a Classe' amp with 802D's for me the other day and he had to prove to me that he didnt have the Rel sub next to the system turned on. The sound was stunning.

The second main difference of course is the price. I pushed my wife's financial good nature as far as I could with the 803D's. I still see her glance at them occasionally and mumble "lost his mind" under her breath.

I have cranked the daylights out of my speakers and they haven't even broken a sweat. There has been no indication of a problem with the tweeters. I do have a very active 3 yr old son and my stereo salesman has warned me to be vigilant about not letting him anywhere near those tweeters. He said that they superglue the magnetic covers to them in the store to prevent any probing fingers doing any damage. The diamond tweeters are obviously very expensive to replace. Maybe the speakers you listened to had been damaged by an outside source somehow.

The bottom line is that, as good as the 803D speakers are, the 802D's are the better of the two. They're both top of the line but one simply has more horsepower than the other.

If price is not a hurdle (and looking at those luxury homes it doesnt appear that it is), and you can get the wife to accept the quasi-R2D2 look of the 802D's this is an easy decision to make. Good luck.

[Shane Martin]

Geoff,

I have extensively compared the 803D and 802D for stereo... I really wanted to like the 803D (I had the money ready)... But once I heard the 802D I couldn't consider the 803D... IMO the 803D, while very good, is a league below the calibre of the 802D.

My thoughts precisely. I thought the 804 was better(for the $$) than the 803. The 802 is way better than both(as it should be). The 803 is much like the Studio 80 for Paradigm IMHo in that if you are looking at the 100 you might as well go either the 60's or 100's and skip the 80's because the value isn't there IMHO. The same goes for the Nautilus line.

IMHO that is.

[bigburner]

I just guess we have different taste here in Palm Beach. Everyone I show them too think they are "funky"...that's a direct quote. See my website if you really want to see class and "art" in design.

https://www.luxurybuilders.com

That's really interesting Jerry because the buildings on your Web site make extensive use of arched windows, arched doorways, arched verandahs, arched display/storage units, and even arched taps! To my eye the arched mid-range driver of the 802D fits perfectly into this style of building, even to the extent that it appears to have been designed specifically to blend in.

[Indytown]

That's really interesting Jerry because the buildings on your Web site make extensive use of arched windows, arched doorways, arched verandahs, arched display/storage units, and even arched taps! To my eye the arched mid-range driver of the 802D fits perfectly into this style of building, even to the extent that it appears to have been designed specifically to blend in.

the design of the home with the arched windows lends its self to a church/ religious type of a window design; nothing negative here, the high ceilings need to be warmed up; if you use transome windows it starts to look industrial and more modern.

Putting 802 or 800D in room, lets face it is not your typical box speaker 8 inch wide, 13-16 deep, and 35 to 42 high.

It is a audio design statement piece. I have yet to see wood putty used anywhere where the veneers meet, curved one piece cabinet, exotic midrange/tweeter. The imagining is fantastic, and the down firing port onto the plinth at higher volumes, very nice.

Jerry, I would spring for the 800D and don't look; the midrange sounds even better with the electronics in it.

[DrJRapp]

That's really interesting Jerry because the buildings on your Web site make extensive use of arched windows, arched doorways, arched verandahs, arched display/storage units, and even arched taps! To my eye the arched mid-range driver of the 802D fits perfectly into this style of building, even to the extent that it appears to have been designed specifically to blend in.

Then you'd never be an interior designer. Arches or not, R2D2 doesn't blend with Tuscan. The 802D would look like a wart on the baby's nose in that environment. All the B&W high end dealers around here in South Florida, where design is more traditional, say the same thing, the major objection most have to the 800 series is their funky looks. I first got interested in the 800 series last month when I went to a party at a friends house. He had just completed a new theater room and I was very impressed with the sound even though I couldn't see the speakers, which supposidly are 800Ds, because they are hidden behind a perferated screen.

I haven't totally decided on B&W yet. I may consider something that draws less attention to itself, or hide them behind a perforated screen. That is if I ever get to hear anything B&W that sounds good enough to justify the cost.

[Stevebez]

Jerry,

I have the 803D's ... and absolutely love them. I think the 802D's are better - but honestly I think the margin is not as wide as some suggest - but I supose I would be biased !!!

I do agree on where the relative weaknesses / strengths are. I have had my 803's now for ... well just after they were released here in the UK and are well run in now ... running off a Rotel 1080 its just magic - a bigger amp (e.g. a 1090- might be more revealing - but I really dont want to change things).

I have it setup where they are crossed at 60hz with a velo dd12 sub doing the party work. This combo really works well... I am 60% movies : 40 music... but its music where the 803's shine. I did a review on them a while back on this forum ...

802D's mmm they the ones I audtioned and fell in love with ... I would have got them were they not that big - or that expensive. I have to say with the setup I have now I have no regrets ... If one day I have the space or the means for 802's I'll just move the 803's to surrounds...

Top end - to me no diff - and this is where the D series rocks.... .

Mids - 802 more revealing and smoother - but I see this as perhaps more marginal than others.

Deeper / fuller bass from 802's - this was the biggest gap for me when I first got my 803's. They loosened up nicely now and with my setup I honestly could not ask for more.

When I auditioned the 802's I could not believe the sub in the room was off.... amazing unit.

Rgds Steve.

[PavelL]

Get yourself some Bose cubes! The design lacks style anyway!!! I hope I'm not hurting your feelings. I mean by offering Bose )))

[DrJRapp]

Get yourself some Bose cubes! The design lacks style anyway!!! I hope I'm not hurting your feelings. I mean by offering Bose )))

No, you're hurting my ears....lol I agree that the B&W design lacks style. Although this thread has lead me to a way to describe it. R2D2.

[jim777]

I think I got the 703 style to blend in, look at my photo in the B&W pictures section.

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showpost.php4?p=183941&postcount=319

It looks better now with the grills on though.

I like the 800 series look so I was wonder what you think about my setup..

[PavelL]

Sorry if I hurt your ears but I meant interior design. Not B&W 802Ds. Nothing wrong with them. I had to say this because of your "B&W design lacks style" wording. Tastes differ, to each his own and so on. I love modern hi-tech design and that's class for me.
As an interior designer you should see interiors that B&W 802s would fit in fine. Unless you design Tuscan ONLY.

[DrJRapp]

The lower end homes here in Palm Beach County are simpler, ie: less detailed. The B&Ws wouldn't stick out like a wart in one of them, just sort of mix with their eclectic Rooms to Go furniture and Target nick nacks. Unfortunatly, the lower end home buyers wouldn't necessarily be able to afford the 800 series.

[PavelL]

This speaker is a design statement. To a lot of folks it is. The original Nautilus 220 model was awarded a Millennium Products status in the UK /by a Design Counsil/. And these speakers do draw attention. And in your words "stick out like a wart". So interiors must be designed accordingly. For them.

[Indytown]

The lower end homes here in Palm Beach County are simpler, ie: less detailed. The B&Ws wouldn't stick out like a wart in one of them, just sort of mix with their eclectic Rooms to Go furniture and Target nick nacks. Unfortunatly, the lower end home buyers wouldn't necessarily be able to afford the 800 series.

Jerry, lets face it anything you stick into one of those rooms is going to stick out, not just B&W. Stick a Revel or Wilson see what happens. The rooms are not designed with speakers in mind.

[DrJRapp]

The "Snails" are design statements and are classical enough of a design to fit in most anywhere, much as a Movado watch or a Jaguar car would. The 800 series however, is a design wannabe. When it gets to the point where one needs to design a room around a pair of speakers or else the don't fit in, there is something seriously wrong with the design of the speakers.

That's why most people around this neck of the woods will hide them, but go down to Miami Beach and they will show them off. (Untill they get stolen, that is)

[jim777]

but go down to Miami Beach and they will show them off. (Untill they get stolen, that is)

Ah! that's where the beaten-up 800 series on eBay come from

[PewterTA]

That's the problem with you southern people... always wanting things to blend in and disappear... Forget that! lol I want the first thing you see when coming in is the speakers and you say to yourself, HOLY CRAP LOOK AT THOSE THINGS... :P lmao

Just kidding. To each his own.

I my opinion the 802s (not saying the 803s, because they have that boxy shape to them that reminds me of Low-fi...) are a wonderful piece when compared to something like the Wilson Alexandria, Maxx, or GrandSlam. I just can't get into that huge, "lets just stack blocks ontop of each other" look they have. Now I'm not talking about sound, I do love the sound of Wilson's speakers! I do love their finishes too...just amazing finishes on them...but I need some roundness to my speakers. It's the same thing with Martin Logan when I looked at them, I'm like I want these big flat paneled looking things in my room? ...and I'm one that when people sit and listen they go, "wow all that sound is coming just from them, you sure there aren't speakers all around us." Hee hee.

I can tell you now though, if they are bothing you this much, they aren't going to grow on you and you probably should look for another speaker that better fits your (and your wife, have to keep her happy!) tastes. hee hee.

You probably don't even like my car it's too round.... :thud:

*everything I say is all in good fun, I'm not trying to pick on anyone*

[PavelL]

Hmmm. I really don't understand how they can be stolen - TOO heavy to move let alone steal them. Steal through UPS?!?! But honestly B&W 801s do look like washing machines. Would you, Jerry, comment? Really want some high-end designer's comments. But seriously, Jerry, what is your point in this? 803s look better to you? Then you should know what to do... just don't let your sweetheart remove the handles that's all. And get yourself a good quality amp.

[jim777]

*everything I say is all in good fun, I'm not trying to pick on anyone*

At least with 802D's, you have speakers for music, mics for karaoke and bowling balls for, well, for bowlin' :lol: *

My wife doesn't like the looks either, she prefers the 700's, but I would take the 802's anytime... but anyway I got used to the look of my 703's (I only liked the 800's before).

*joking here too

[SRT-10 Viper]

You just need to give her something she wants in the house... Upgraded kitchen (that's what I had to do), New furniture... You get the picture.

[PewterTA]

At least with 802D's, you have speakers for music, mics for karaoke and bowling balls for, well, for bowlin' :lol: *

HA, MULTIPURPOSE SPEAKERS... Now you're getting your money's worth!! :rofl:

Just make sure you go to a good bowling alley, those ball returns will really scuff up your ball. :lol:

[Sim reality]

I was looking at the architecture and it really depends on which room you put it into...

The deep burgandy unadorned walls and dark wood stain is not Tuscan (or at least my understanding of it) and have a more "english feel" to it which the 802's would blend better with.

If you have more traditional Tuscan colours (IE: light walls with lots of "lighter" wood trim) I don't see how you could get any speakers to match the decor... At best you would be looking at bookshelves... Any floorstander would stick out like a sore thumb (your looking at wooden boxes or designs from a different era no matter what you look at unless you are planning to get them custom mounted into the wall)

I am guessing this is not going to be in an "media room" where the showpiece is the electronics anyways?

[DrJRapp]

That's the problem with you southern people... always wanting things to blend in and disappear... Forget that! lol You probably don't even like my car it's too round.... :thud:

*everything I say is all in good fun, I'm not trying to pick on anyone*

2 Points: 1st I'm not Southern, I'm from the NY/NJ area.
2d I do like your car. In fact, I had a 99 Formula myself in Silver (wanted Pewter but wasn't available at the dealer when I bought it). ...well rather should say, still have it in the family...gave it to my stepson....love that car, now has 92K miles on it! By the way...I bought that car because it was...let's say...in your face!

I always have a day car and a play car. My day car is a Jag XJ8 and my play car was a 350Z till recently. Got rid of the Z and was hoping to get a Solstice, but that turned out to be too small for me to fit comfortably in.

[DrJRapp]

The deep burgandy unadorned walls and dark wood stain is not Tuscan (or at least my understanding of it) and have a more "english feel" to it which the 802's would blend better with.

If you have more traditional Tuscan colours (IE: light walls with lots of "lighter" wood trim)

You've obviously never been to Tuscany where deep rich colors abound. Tuscan colors are deep reds, terra cotta, sun gold and medium Cypress. The room you mention isn't burgundy, it's terra cotta.

If you want to get a feel for Tuscany, vist any Olive Garden.

[DrJRapp]

Ah! that's where the beaten-up 800 series on eBay come from

Yeah...Sy Stallone lost 5 pair...lol

[Indytown]

Sim, good points, I have to agree. Nice stand ($1000+) each with a upper end bookshelve speaker ($3500 min.)

You don't want to be cheap and put Target nick nack's in a nice home like that.

Not ever room is a good setting for upper end floorstanders; I don't care who makes them, they are going to be imposing with large cabinets.

Jerry, once you start to get up into the 800D range suttle things start to happen. Guitar strings that are metal will sound metal, ones that are not metal
will sound non-metal.

Some speakers just can't reproduce the difference between the two.

There are other examples, too many to list.

On a traditional Bass, you know the one around 6 to 7 ft tall shaped like a guitar, with a large flow port on the front of it.

The resonance the instrument makes, the tonal quality of the strings and wood cabinet, some speakers just can't get it right.

Jerry, the 800D's are the way to go.


Your friends/dealers probably like the tweeter set into a box speaker so it is localized. The airiness of the top mounted tweet with the smooth deliver probably doesn't do it for them.

[DrJRapp]

Guitar strings that are metal will sound metal, ones that are not metal
will sound non-metal.

Some speakers just can't reproduce the difference between the two.

Jeez, my RF7s will do that. At their price I would expect the 800D to let you know what color shoes the guitarist is wearing!...lol

[Indytown]

Jeez, my RF7s will do that. At their price I would expect the 800D to let you know what color shoes the guitarist is wearing!...lol

that was on my list, I didn't want to brag.

[Sim reality]

You've obviously never been to Tuscany where deep rich colors abound. Tuscan colors are deep reds, terra cotta, sun gold and medium Cypress. The room you mention isn't burgundy, it's terra cotta.

If you want to get a feel for Tuscany, vist any Olive Garden.

Maybe it's just my monitor... to me your avitar is on a terra cotta background... The website looks like burgandy.

I still stand by that you probably can't make any floorstanders "work" in the brighter colored rooms.

[DrJRapp]

My avitar background is BenMoore 2002-10 Vermillion, the Room is 2090-30 Terra cotta tile.

I think you may need a new monitor...or an isf cal.

A tower speaker is just that ...a tower, and trying to make it look like anything else just draws attention to it...no matter what color the room. It's funny, we'll praise a speaker that acoustically dissapears, yet laud one that negates all the acoustic designer's hard work by visually calling attention to itself....crazy

[bigburner]

Then you'd never be an interior designer.

Well silly me for having an opinion.

[DrJRapp]

Well silly me for having an opinion.

Well...me too!

[PewterTA]

Okay quit picking on Jerry, he's a good guy....(and getting back on topic more or less)

But seriously, if the speakers aren't you/don't fit in, they never really will...

I think part of a speaker (like 30%) is aesthetics...so you have to be happy with the looks as well as the sound it produces. We all here can pretty much (to a degree) say you'll like the sound either the 803Ds or 802Ds will produce...but how they look to you and the wife... that's completely 100% your decision.

...and the 800D, 801D, and 802Ds will let you know which cow the shoes came from. lol

[Blazar]

there is nothing "tuscan" about any speaker design that I'm aware of.... I'm not sure what you're looking for.

In modern environments, the black 802's look great and in traditional environments the rosenut that I bought look real good. I'm not a fan of the brown speakers... so I won't comment.

"Funky speakers".... the 800,802 both look amazing and original and would be the focal point of any room. The room would have to be arranged/painted to match the speakers for the most part.

[RebelMan]

...I'm not a fan of the brown speakers... so I won't comment.

What "brown" speakers are you referring to? The new 800 Series does not have brown only black, rosenut and cherry. Walnut, which looks brown, is reserved for the 700 series only.

[RebelMan]

I just guess we have different taste here in Palm Beach. Everyone I show them too think they are "funky"...that's a direct quote. See my website if you really want to see class and "art" in design.

Must be a local phenomena.

"...as far as I am concerned, the new diamond-studded B&W 800 Series flagship is a work of art. And not just for its elegantly curvaceous good looks."

"...B&W has taken the science of speaker building and turned it into a modern-day art form."

A direct quote from a woman who has seen and heard her fair share of loudspeakers. 8)