Does N805 Need Alot of power to flourish? Help with Amp selection.

[Ash]

Hello everyone,

I have heard alot of arguments regarding the Nautilus series requiring alot of juice to drive them. However, I was wondering how accurate is this this with the N805s.

I'm currently satisfied with my speakers and the next step is to get good amplification with the maximum return for the money invested. I have heard that Ideally I would need to get 200wpc amplification in order to get the most or actually to get what the N805s are capable of. Of course with the extra watts comes extra $$$ and I'm not sure what is the "Cost-Benifit" relationship in the increased price.

My ideal budget for amplification is something in the range of $ 1,800. The best option (not considering second-hand) that I got for that money was the Arcam AVR300. This amp is 100w X 7 and you have the option of using the extra two channels (2 channels from the total 7) to bi-amp the front speakers.

The next jump would be to the Rotel RMB-1075 with RSP-1068 which costs $2600. A significant jump but I wonder how much better would it be.

If I consider the big amps the abvious choice would be Rotel RMB-1095 with the RSP-1068 which would cost about $3,980 which is a big jump from the RMB1075 and a huge one from the Arcam. Furthermore, if I consider the RMB-1095 then I have to consider others in the same price range, which is the new Arcam APV700 / P1000 (135w X 7) I read that it has the flavour of the FMJ AV8/P7 combo which is supposed to be really good.

I would really appretiate any inputs you guys have regarding this issue, whether the options I've listed are good value for money (for the performance increase) and which of the options do you think would fit my sytem best.

Thanks

[PewterTA]

The RMB-1095/1068 combo is going to get you the most out of your speakers, but it's also, like you said, going to cost you the most!

The RMB-1075/1068 is going to be close to the one above, but you will notice a little bit less with this setup.

The Arcam is going to have a tougher time driving them as it's al all in one unit and the amplifier section is going to perform the same as the dedicated amp (1075/1095).

I'd probably go with the 1075/1068 since that fits your budget. If you are going to upgrade in the 800 series, then I would shoot for the 1095... You should be able to get a pretty good deal on them.

[Dallasdave]

I have the 1068 and 1095 setup. I did listen to this setup with many of the B&W speakers 600's to 800's. I was also able to hear the 1075 amp with the same B&W's. My opinion was clearly was the 1095 it really took charge of the speakers where the 1075 sounded good but the overall control of the 1095 won me over. But it's always about budget the best fit for you.

[scottielee]

quality usually wins over quantity. i think the same holds true for power wattage. i am driving my signature 805 with class a 30 tube watts, and they sound much better in terms of presence and clarity than my previous denon 3803's 110 watts.

i have even read on audioasylum that someone uses a single ended triode 845 tube amp (20 watts) and signature 805 with great success.

i suggest tube amps from jadis and canary. if you must have solid state, look into mcintosh.

[Mark_C.]

You'll do fine with the 1075. I've run my 805s with the 1075 for two years and haven't once had the feeling that I was missing something. I tried out the speakers with the 1075 and the 1095 before purchasing, and the only thing I noticed was that the 1095 played louder. If your HT has 20-foot ceilings, I'd recommend the 1095. Otherwise, the 1075 will do great.

[Ash]

It seems that most of you think that the Rotel 1075 / 1068 would be the most appropriate. Thus it is not necessary to power the speakers with alot of power to be able to hear their true potential. This was my a big concern of mine, since some people told me that I will not be hearing the potential of the 805 unless I power them with something like 200watts.

Scottielee,
Tube amps and mcintosh amps are really expensive and out of my budget. I just need to get out the speakers potential, however, I don't want the amplification to cost more than my whole system. Otherwise I would love to own any of the options you stated.

Has anyone tried B&W with Arcam? The new AVP700 / P1000 also uses seperates just like the rotel. The AVP700 is the processor and the P1000 is the power amp (135 X 7). I heard many good things regarding Arcam kits specially their top model which is supposed to be in the league of Mark Levenson or Lexicon in terms od sound quality.

[Pieter]

This is going to drag a trail, which for me, started back in 1991 when I purchased the Matrix 805s. To drive them I got a pair of Musical Fidelity P150s. They are rated 75W/ch and were bridged into mono, each amp driving a single channel. Happy with the sound, but thought I’d try, I think it was, the Musical Fidelity A320. This thing was HUGE, resembled a welding machine more than an amp, comparable current delivery too, and cost more than triple the combined price of the P150s. Did it offer an improvement? Probably, but that was subtle. So I stuck with the P150s.

Started moving around frequently, and gave the system to my father who was on his first steps into HT. Figured I get something again somewhere in the future…

Not long after settling the audio bug bit, and I scratched the itch with a set of Nautilus 805s. What to drive them with? Loaned a single P150 from my father, he says I stole it. Was apprehensive of the 75W/ch amp’s ability to drive the speakers, but it surprised me.

However, I knew the 805s could do better with a more capable amp. The search started…

Rotel is an easy solution and is good value for the money. They market the B&W/Rotel synergy quite well; B&W speakers on Rotel glossies, Rotel amps on B&W glossies. Add the satisfied B&W/Rotel combo owners tossing in their copper. As I said, a safe bet which should satisfy most. But which model? Have a listen and decide for yourself. Are the improvements noticeable and are you willing to pay even if the increase in cost is not commensurate with that of sound quality. I do have my views regarding the capabilities of the different Rotel models in getting better sound out of the 805s, but I am not in your shoes.

Spread your net a little wider too, you may find a “particular” sound taking your fancy.

Be wary of specs, take notice of them, but let your ears sign the cheque.

I was going to post this as is, but after rereading your post I decided specifics were in order.

Neither the 1075 or 1095, nor the 1080 will get the best out of the 805s. You’ll be upgrading amps for quite some time before you hit the speaker’s ceiling. All the Rotel models will have the speaker sounding good to some degree, but not best. Then again, “best” is not always best, what’s called for, or what you’re willing to spend.

[scottielee]

there are plenty of tube amps for around $1.8k on audiogon new and used:
canary 301 new $1.8k
cary v12r used $2k
jadis orchestra reference used $1.8k
there is even a legendary mcintosh 275 reissue used for $2.5k.
borrow a nice tube amp from a dealer to try if you haven't heard n805 with tubes. it will be well worth your effort.
good luck!

[Ash]

Pieter,

Thanks for the advice, it was helpful. The thing is I cannot audition amps at home as I mainly have to order them. That why I'm basing my decision on research. I have listened to a classe amp with the 805S, however, it was in an open showroom and I could not really test them, it was also next to a signature 800 so I totally ignored the 805.

[Pieter]

Pieter,
...The thing is I cannot audition amps at home as I mainly have to order them. That why I'm basing my decision on research.

That's a bit of a bummer. Makes things a little more difficult than they ought to be.

Perhaps you have a friend, also into audio, who's input and advice you value? I don't mean somebody/anybody from this or any other audio forum; someone you know personally.

If all else fails, the Rotel is a safe and good choice. But definitely not the 1075.

My entitled opinion, but not the final word, not even by a long shot.

[Ash]

Thanks Pieter I'll try to get something like the 1095 or some thing with similar strength.

I actually listened to the RMB-1075 with a B&W604 system and I wasn't impressed. Before that the 1075 was on top of my list, therefore, the only amp that I'm considering from Rotel is 1095. However, I started to read alot about Arcam and I started researching about their products. Alot of people love the Arcam they have, and I read amazing reviews regarding their top of range amps and processors but they are very expensive. Arcam have 175watt monoblocks which are supposed to be good. But three monoblocks would cost more than all of my speakers put together.

[Pieter]

...but they are very expensive. Arcam have 175watt monoblocks which are supposed to be good. But three monoblocks would cost more than all of my speakers put together.

I've a feeling that even were any of us filthy stinking rich, the choices would be still just as tough. But our mistakes would hurt us less.

[Somphon]

scottielee
Have you listen to the 805 with McIntosh tube amp? how do they sound? What about Audio Research tubes? These 2 brand has different character and I heard some prefer Mc over ARC while some prefer the opposite.
What's your take?

[akhter]

Hello everyone,

I have heard alot of arguments regarding the Nautilus series requiring alot of juice to drive them. However, I was wondering how accurate is this this with the N805s.

I'm currently satisfied with my speakers and the next step is to get good amplification with the maximum return for the money invested. I have heard that Ideally I would need to get 200wpc amplification in order to get the most or actually to get what the N805s are capable of. Of course with the extra watts comes extra $$$ and I'm not sure what is the "Cost-Benifit" relationship in the increased price.

My ideal budget for amplification is something in the range of $ 1,800. The best option (not considering second-hand) that I got for that money was the Arcam AVR300. This amp is 100w X 7 and you have the option of using the extra two channels (2 channels from the total 7) to bi-amp the front speakers.

The next jump would be to the Rotel RMB-1075 with RSP-1068 which costs $2600. A significant jump but I wonder how much better would it be.

If I consider the big amps the abvious choice would be Rotel RMB-1095 with the RSP-1068 which would cost about $3,980 which is a big jump from the RMB1075 and a huge one from the Arcam. Furthermore, if I consider the RMB-1095 then I have to consider others in the same price range, which is the new Arcam APV700 / P1000 (135w X 7) I read that it has the flavour of the FMJ AV8/P7 combo which is supposed to be really good.

I would really appretiate any inputs you guys have regarding this issue, whether the options I've listed are good value for money (for the performance increase) and which of the options do you think would fit my sytem best.

Thanks

I bought the Arcam AVR300 to go with my N804s. I auditioned the 200wpc Rotel setup at my deal (he had both), and found the Arcam to sound much cleaner. My dealer agreed, even though I had gone to the store to get the Rotel setup which cost about $800 more. He suggest I get The Arcam AVR300, and if I really want more power, then invest in a power amp down the line. The analog pre-amp section of the AVR300 blows away *any* receiver out there (its the same one as the AV8 which costs 3 times a much).
By the way the front channels of the AVR300 are 140wpc not 100wpc (whether you Bi-amp or not). As many others have said, its the quality of the watts not the number.

[akhter]

scottielee
Have you listen to the 805 with McIntosh tube amp? how do they sound? What about Audio Research tubes? These 2 brand has different character and I heard some prefer Mc over ARC while some prefer the opposite.
What's your take?

Having auditioned the mac with N804, I can say, the closest Mac setup that sounded as good as the AVR300 was $4500. At that price range, there are so many choices, that I'd advice towards going to full separates.

[tboooe]

currently I am using the Parasound A21 amp (250W) with my 805S. I switched from the 1080 and am pleased with the idfference. To me, it sounded more musical, warmer..gave my little 805S some presence and authority.

[akhter]

It seems that most of you think that the Rotel 1075 / 1068 would be the most appropriate. Thus it is not necessary to power the speakers with alot of power to be able to hear their true potential. This was my a big concern of mine, since some people told me that I will not be hearing the potential of the 805 unless I power them with something like 200watts.

Scottielee,
Tube amps and mcintosh amps are really expensive and out of my budget. I just need to get out the speakers potential, however, I don't want the amplification to cost more than my whole system. Otherwise I would love to own any of the options you stated.

Has anyone tried B&W with Arcam? The new AVP700 / P1000 also uses seperates just like the rotel. The AVP700 is the processor and the P1000 is the power amp (135 X 7). I heard many good things regarding Arcam kits specially their top model which is supposed to be in the league of Mark Levenson or Lexicon in terms od sound quality.

Frankly at that price range, I'd go for the AVP700 with a Mac power-amp or a Parasound. Even the rotel 200wpc power amp is a good deal. You defintely want to get the Arcam for its fantastic pre-section though.

[scottielee]

scottielee
Have you listen to the 805 with McIntosh tube amp? how do they sound? What about Audio Research tubes? These 2 brand has different character and I heard some prefer Mc over ARC while some prefer the opposite.
What's your take?

not with a mcintosh tube amp. i actually purchased the signature 805 after i heard them with a mcintosh ma6900 (solid state) at my dealer. i didn't hear them with other amps at that moment, but i liked the lush and balanced sound.

i would love to hear the mc275 and mc2000. i have heard the mc2102 with sonus faber cremona auditors and they were fabulous :T :T

unfortunately i have never heard an audio research component.

[gostan]

I bought the Arcam AVR300 to go with my N804s. I auditioned the 200wpc Rotel setup at my deal (he had both), and found the Arcam to sound much cleaner. My dealer agreed, even though I had gone to the store to get the Rotel setup which cost about $800 more. He suggest I get The Arcam AVR300, and if I really want more power, then invest in a power amp down the line. The analog pre-amp section of the AVR300 blows away *any* receiver out there (its the same one as the AV8 which costs 3 times a much).
By the way the front channels of the AVR300 are 140wpc not 100wpc (whether you Bi-amp or not). As many others have said, its the quality of the watts not the number.

If you run a 5.1 or 7.1 system the AVR300 is a straight 100 Watts per channel @ 8ohms. The higher rating is for 1 or 2 channels only.

I found the soundstage and dynamics of the AVR300 to be lacking running speakers of similar inefficiency like the N804. And I had to increase the volume level by 10-12 db in order to equalize the levels when compared to the separate Arcam P1000 amp. The AVR300 is a great receiver sound-wise, especially for the $$, but running a separate amp will make all the difference in the world. That is why I ordered the Arcam AVP700 and am looking for a compatible separate amplifier.

[Ash]

Akhter,

Thanks for the input. I'm actually considering the Arcam AVP700 / P1000. They are now my top choice. The McIntosh sounds great, they actually have 200W X 7 channels amp, however, at $6000, it way out of my budget. I can barely buy the Arcam couple!

[Ash]

tboooe,

that sounds like a nice upgrade. do you hear a significant difference for the additional investment.

[Ash]

Akhter,

Do you think combinig the Arcam AVP700 with the McIntosh, will give a better sound than when coupled with the P1000

[tboooe]

ash, for me I did hear a big difference. The 1080 compared to the A21 sounded thin and out of breath a lot of times. There is warmth and fullness to the A21 that I did not get with the 1080. I was actually thinking about upgrading my speakers because I thought the 805s lacked authority and presence (i.e.too small). But with the A21, the music now permeates my entire room and the soundstage is much more 3 dimensional. Also, everything became more precise and crisp. So I definitely think it was a good upgrade. However, do I think its worth twice the 1080? For me no only because I am in a cash flow poor position. I was able to get the A21 at a good price (not twice the 1080.)

[akhter]

If you run a 5.1 or 7.1 system the AVR300 is a straight 100 Watts per channel @ 8ohms. The higher rating is for 1 or 2 channels only.

I found the soundstage and dynamics of the AVR300 to be lacking running speakers of similar inefficiency like the N804. And I had to increase the volume level by 10-12 db in order to equalize the levels when compared to the separate Arcam P1000 amp. The AVR300 is a great receiver sound-wise, especially for the $$, but running a separate amp will make all the difference in the world. That is why I ordered the Arcam AVP700 and am looking for a compatible separate amplifier.

I do agree on the amplification side, it is a bit lacking. However, for the price, its a steal. I look at it as a great pre, with a good amp thrown in for free, until I am ready to buy a separate power amp. The only reason for me to get the AVP700 would be the HDMI switching and that wasn't worth paying twice as much (because I would have to get a power amp right away). I am running in two channel mode, and when I do add a power amp, it would be a 3 channel one (probably the FMJ one), as for surrounds the AVR300 would so just fine.

[akhter]

Akhter,

Do you think combinig the Arcam AVP700 with the McIntosh, will give a better sound than when coupled with the P1000

I heard the AVR300 used as a pre (which is very similar to the AVP700) with a Mac, and it was fantastic. I care mostly for music, so I'd get a 2 or 3 channel Arcam FMJ power amp (or a Mac), and use the AVR300 for the rest. The decision between 2 or 3 would depend on how much I care about movies as 60% of most movie is usually on the center. I'd rather get the best 2 channel performance I can buy, and skimp on the surrounds.

[Ash]

Thanks alot for all the help and comments guys.

But since my budget is ristricted I doubt that much options. While looking at the McIntosh Amps I have noticed that there amp do not increase in watt output when in 8ohm or 4ohm. i.e. one stereo amp produced 250w into 8 or 4 ohm, is that good?

[audioqueso]

currently I am using the Parasound A21 amp (250W) with my 805S. I switched from the 1080 and am pleased with the idfference. To me, it sounded more musical, warmer..gave my little 805S some presence and authority.

I agree. I had the Rotel 991 and 990 and didn't like it that much. Tried out a few Parasound, and man, what a difference! I purchased the 1500A (200x2) and my N805s sound soooo much better than I had heard them before. And you can get some good deals on Parasound.