Attn: new 800 series owners, how about some updates?

[js24]

Hi D owners,
Care to gimme some updates on your new 800 series? (I remember quite a few of the members acquired the new modles over the past couple months)

Do you find the Diamond (or the new S-tweeter) really working even after some time has passed?

Do you ever find the them any harsh, forward, or bright at all?

Do you feel the bass is more extended and tighter overall?

and any comments about the speakers at this point?

Thanks for your contributions

Jay

[SRT-10 Viper]

I have 802N that I replaced (now use as rears) a couple months ago with 800Ds... I had a problem with one woofer blown on the new speaker and the dealer quickly replaced the bad woofer (took 10 minutes). The sound of the new tweeter is outstanding... Female voices are incredible... The bass is tight and sounds much better than the N802s. for the past 2 weeks I have had an ear infection and listening to music is not fun... Can't wait til my ears get better so I can go back to audio nirvana. PS: I have CAM/350 Amps, with the new Classe 2 channel which has HT pass thru to a Denon 5803A(thinking of upgrading to 5085 or Lexicon 12B V4)

[junior77blue]

Well, I would certainly hope those speakers sound fantastic & better than N802!!

[georgev]

Should we assume that due to the lack of response to this question posed, that there is not really a great perceived improvement from the Nautilus series to the diamond series? I am sure it is different but better? Come on folks your honest thoughts.

[sugarmedia]

Should we assume that due to the lack of response to this question posed, that there is not really a great perceived improvement from the Nautilus series to the diamond series?

No, you shouldn't assume that.

[shep]

another fence sitter waiting to hear more about new 804s

I picked up the Nautilus 804 in December as a closeout, and have been thinking of upgrading. Heard the new 804s, and I 'think' they sound better, but would love to hear the opinion of those who may have enjoyed a longer relationship with the new 804, or who have done a solid A+B comparison.

[hillen]

I am a owner of a pair of N802's I am very happy with. I have just ordered a pair of 802D's, but at this moment, I am not able to comment on the improvements of the Diamond versions, simply because I have never heard these. Before ordering the new speakers, I phoned B&W in the UK and asked whether I can expect significant improvements. B&W assured me, the difference between the N802's and the 802D's is night and day. The N802 still is an excellend loudspeaker, but the 802D should be better in all diciplines.
Alas I have to wait 3 or 4 weeks before delivery. The bottleneck in the production are the marlan midrange heads... As soon I am able to comment on the improvements of the D versions, I will come back. I am also very curious what the experiences of other people are on this matter...

[georgev]

I I phoned B&W in the UK and asked whether I can expect significant improvements. B&W assured me, the difference between the N802's and the 802D's is night and day. ...

Would you expect any different comments from B&W?
I would put more value on your thoughts when you, and not B&W comment.
Check out the thread from I think it was Dan R who changed from the N802's to the 802D's and was quite disillusioned. Agreed t is one person, but................

[turbokuo]

I picked up the Nautilus 804 in December as a closeout, and have been thinking of upgrading. Heard the new 804s, and I 'think' they sound better, but would love to hear the opinion of those who may have enjoyed a longer relationship with the new 804, or who have done a solid A+B comparison.

On the fast passages the 804S tend to keep up much better compared to the N804, whereas the N804 would be muddier. But in my opinion, if you already have the N804, I would wait longer and jump to the 803S. Not only do you get a more accurate speaker but better bass.

[Andrew M Ward]

200 Dealers

Turbo!
There are just over 200 B&W dealers in the US

one very successful dealer in your area... You should give the new series a listen for yourself.

[shep]

fence sitting

Thanks Turbo. I have until the end of November before my one year trade-up expires at the local B&W dealer. May just go to the new 804s this year, then can go to the 803s next time. Won't be moving any time soon, so the size of my listening room will keep me from considering the 802...but I will need to move to a larger amp (currently driving my speakers with Rotel RB-1070).

[turbokuo]

Thanks Turbo. I have until the end of November before my one year trade-up expires at the local B&W dealer. May just go to the new 804s this year, then can go to the 803s next time. Won't be moving any time soon, so the size of my listening room will keep me from considering the 802...but I will need to move to a larger amp (currently driving my speakers with Rotel RB-1070).

Oh, I get it...you're considering upgrading because of the 1 year trade in policy. What's the price difference going to be, $500? If it's only $500, it's worth it.

How big is your listening room? I've tried my 802 in both my 17 X 25 room and also my 12 X 14 room and I actually prefer my 12 X14 room so there is where it remains.

Also your RB-1070 is fine even for the N802, I've run my N802 of off everything from my cheepie Yamaha receiver/Panasonic digital amp/Classe integrated and they all sounded the same except for the Panasonic digital amp, which had the best soundstaging.

[weijst]

...I've run my N802 of off everything from my cheepie Yamaha receiver/Panasonic digital amp/Classe integrated and they all sounded the same except for the Panasonic digital amp, which had the best soundstaging...

Hehe, numerous discussions have been held on this subject. I do not remember one of them mentioning that a N802 sounds the same on a 'cheepie Yamaha reciever' than on a Classe integrated... Could you please elaborate a little more on this matter?

And for the rest of you lucky new 800 serie owners; what are your comments on 'drivability' of the new 800 series? I'd like to get some feedback on how easy / hard the new serie is to power.

One of the reasons I'm haven't yet made the jump to the Nautilus / 800 serie is the fact I'm using a RMB-1075 and have no plans to upgrade it for quite a while. I have heard a pair of N804 on my 1075 in my room and I was pleased to say the least. Than again, I had never heard floorstanders on my system / in my room before that, so it might just have been the difference between the 705's I was used to and 3-way floorstanders...

Would you for instance consider a RB-1070 or a RMB-1075 to be capable of powering lets say a pair of 804S to a higher performance level than a pair of 700 serie floorstanders?

Thanx and enjoy!

[johan]

I've run my N802 of off everything from my cheepie Yamaha receiver/Panasonic digital amp/Classe integrated and they all sounded the same except for the Panasonic digital amp, which had the best soundstaging.

Yeah right...

[turbokuo]

Contrary to belief, N802 don't need a lot of power, the only thing you need to worry about is clipping at higher volumes or difficult passages with cheeper amps/receivers and the ability(of lack of) to dip into 4ohms. But don't believe me, check the major AV forums, there are various individuals selling off some very expensive high end amps ($8,000) for these little digital wonders such as the Panasonic digital amps.

That's what started to get me curious, so I bought one and sure enough the Panasonic X70 has the best soundstaging of them all (so far)...the only downside is the highs are a little too bright and fatiguing for me (some love this because it's a side effect of being more accurate) so I turn down the treble a couple of notches. The upside, is the bass is more alot more accurate and tighter, the soundstaging is more precise and as for the mids, I'm still undecided with this one because I've only had it for a little over a week.

[georgev]

Turbokuo, don't you think that with better power the 802's perform much better?
Any amp. will drive them but how well.
They do go as low as 3ohms, which places then a rather demanding load on the amp doesn't it?

[turbokuo]

Turbokuo, don't you think that with better power the 802's perform much better?
Any amp. will drive them but how well.
They do go as low as 3ohms, which places then a rather demanding load on the amp doesn't it?

Hey George and Weijst,

Sorry you responded as I was updating my other post to give more detail and I should have elaborated in the beginning but I'm a lazy typer. I'm not advocating cheepie receivers like the Yamaha to power the N802 mainly for the reason you stated...Even though N802 are 8ohms speakers they dip into 3-4ohm territory and this is hard on the Yamaha. My point was contrary to popular belief, at LOW to MODERATE volumes the Yamaha can power the N802 depending on room size, acoustics, etc., any higher and you'll potentially run into clipping problems. This is exactly what I did for 6 weeks as I was auditioning various analog and digital amps in my home (not at the dealer cause it always sounds different).

My second point was while I was auditioning various high end amps in my own home, it was hard for me to tell a difference in SQ, if at all for the matter(except when it's clipping), but when I bought the digital amp the difference was that dramatic...I would suspect that there are those who won't like how the new breed of digitals amps sound. But then again there are still those who like the sound of tubes over solid state amps.

[Andrew M Ward]

That's what started to get me curious, so I bought one and sure enough the Panasonic X70 has the best soundstaging of them all (so far)...the only downside is the highs are a little too bright and fatiguing for me (some love this because it's a side effect of being more accurate) so I turn down the treble a couple of notches. The upside, is the bass is more alot more accurate and tighter, the soundstaging is more precise and as for the mids, I'm still undecided with this one because I've only had it for a little over a week.

Turbo,
Keep in mind digital amplifiers have a unique type of distortion that is particularly noticeable to some listeners... Some people can pick out a digital amp in a second; those listeners typically don't enjoy digital amplifiers.

that is = Class D in their present state, they will eventually resolve the issues and be the default power source... in my opinion...

Just my 2 cents

[turbokuo]

Turbo,
Keep in mind digital amplifiers have a unique type of distortion that is particularly noticeable to some listeners... Some people can pick out a digital amp in a second; those listeners typically don't enjoy digital amplifiers.

that is = Class D in their present state, they will eventually resolve the issues and be the default power source... in my opinion...

Just my 2 cents

Totally agree in a few short years, digital amps will be the norm. Bye the way, I also tried the Onkyo 552 digital and it sounded more along the lines of an analog amplifiers but with better soundstaging. And again the treble and bass were both better in every sense, but the midrange sounded about the same.

[js24]

um.... good insights on the digital amps guys...
but what happened to all the "proud owners" of the new 800 series?!?!?!?

[Andrew M Ward]

Hey!

um.... good insights on the digital amps guys...
but what happened to all the "proud owners" of the new 800 series?!?!?!?

You live near one of the best all around Hi-Fi dealers in the country you should go listen to the new 800 series ... and then tell us what you think?

Audio Advice (Raleigh)

[shep]

Turbo,

In answer to your question, the price difference would be about $1200, as I bought my N804 as floor demos for $1200. The store will take them back at purchase price on a trade-in, but I still have to try negotiating the price a little. I hope for 10%, which would make the difference closer to $800.

[turbokuo]

Turbo,

In answer to your question, the price difference would be about $1200, as I bought my N804 as floor demos for $1200. The store will take them back at purchase price on a trade-in, but I still have to try negotiating the price a little. I hope for 10%, which would make the difference closer to $800.

$800...hmmm border line, but if you are going to keep it for many years then definitely.

[js24]

speaking of which... I've made an appointment for tomorrow.. became sick of waiting j/k...
thougn what I want to hear is a long-term evaluation from those who have lived with the new series for some time.
The truth only comes out after a month (＋－） in the home of the owner... never in the dealers- too much variables...

I'll let you guys know what I think after tomorrow night though (and yes, I'm going to the audioadvice )

[Stevebez]

I think I will publish a personal review of my 803D's soon ... trying to integrate a Velodyne DD12 into this setup and nearly done .. some fine tuning first and then I will put it in a seperate thread.

Rgds Steve.

[georgev]

Eagerly looking forward to that.
Also thoughts on them with/out the velodyne.

[js24]

That's what I'm talking about Steve~
I'll look forward to it, too

[OmegaSpeed]

Sorry, I haven't stopped by this site in some time. I have no regrets in purchasing my 802D's, I am coming up on owning them for two months.

[SRT-10 Viper]

All I can say is WOW... I have Luther V. on right now.. The 800D's are incredible... Wish you could hear them. Sounds like he is right in front of me singing. Sound stage is as wide as my room... I have about 40 hours on the speakers and they sound better each day!

[georgev]

Wish I could too. If wishes were horses....................
Enjoy them.

[csuzor]

One of the reasons I'm haven't yet made the jump to the Nautilus / 800 serie is the fact I'm using a RMB-1075 and have no plans to upgrade it for quite a while.
Would you for instance consider a RB-1070 or a RMB-1075 to be capable of powering lets say a pair of 804S to a higher performance level than a pair of 700 serie floorstanders?

I have similar equipment, and I did listen to 804S when I purchased the Rotel gear, comparing 804S to 703 on 1068+1075, and the 804S was superior, within 30s it was clear that this speaker was in a different league. This dealer believed the 1075 was well matched to the 804S, but he was selling me this amp on that day... another dealer yesterday (in the USA this time) told me the 1075 is inadequate for the 80x series as a whole, but he wants to sell me a McIntosh!

You should have no trouble finding a dealer with both Rotel and B&W, go and convince yourself, I am still convinced. Now, I wonder how far the 1075 will go into the 80x range, but at my listening volumes, I feel it could handle most of them.
Christophe

[jahlion]

That's what started to get me curious, so I bought one and sure enough the Panasonic X70 has the best soundstaging of them all (so far)...the only downside is the highs are a little too bright and fatiguing for me (some love this because it's a side effect of being more accurate) so I turn down the treble a couple of notches. The upside, is the bass is more alot more accurate and tighter, the soundstaging is more precise and as for the mids, I'm still undecided with this one because I've only had it for a little over a week.

I used a Panasonic X series digital amp with my N802's, NHTM2, and N805's for a few years, works just fine for moderate volume. I'm still waiting for the B&O ICEpower 250watt digital amp modules to be used by more manufactures before making a purchase. The first one will be released very soon...

http://www.medicom.bang-olufsen.com/sw2331.asp

[Chelseaforever]

I have only just picked up on this thread.
As much as some would like to think that there is little improvement from N802's to 802D's they will be disappointed.
Having moved up from the N802 to the 802D I have to say there is a world of difference. In fact I would go as far to say it is staggering.
Throughout the frequency range differences can be heard. I fully support all of the comments about the differences to be heard with the diamond tweeter. But what has really blown me away is the improvement in the bass and mid range. Every time I put the system on it brings a smile to my face.
I have had them for 6 weeks now and I couldn't be more impressed.

[turbokuo]

Chelseaforever,

What gear are you using for the 802D's?

[Chelseaforever]

As a total surround system it comprises of the following:
Naim CDS2/XPS Naim 52/supercap, Bryston 4BSST.
For the rest, Naim AV2, Naim NAP 140x2, B&W 805 center, Castle Richmond rear, Castle Sub, Pioneer PDP 434 PE, Pioneer 868 DVD.
Out of interest I recently had a weeks trial with the Isotek Titan power supply. This in itself revealed another level of detail. Not earth shattering in its effect, but enough that when it was removed a week later I really missed its openess and transparency at all frequency ranges. I am saving up for one next year (£1400).

[Nigel_Rav]

Hi Chelseaforever, glad to see another forum user happy with a Naim/B&W set-up (well, a lot of Naim in your set-up, anyway). I'm using CDX2/282/250.2/HC2 with 804S and it sounds unbelievably good.

[js24]

I guess I'll revive this thread by chiming in my own experience with the 803Ds

I had two ~1hr listening sessions
and I compared them against the ML Summit (direct A/B same electronics)

Electronics used: MF A5 intg amp and CDP, some transparent cable (single wire) hydra power supply, and stock power cords

music used: Beethoven symphony 5 4th mov. Brahms violin concerto 3rd mov. Mozart violin/viola dbl concerto sinfoniata 1 and 3 movs. Mozart clarinet concerto K622 1 and 3rd mov.(MF), Diana Krall Girl in the other room track 3 9 12

before giving my impressions a little story first

on my first of the two visits, my salesman had gone for the day (which he’d told me already) but I just wanted to listen so I just went in and had one of the guys there help me. By the time it was near the closing time I was still listening to 803Ds. When I realized it was just 5 min. pass the closing time and stepped out of the listening room, the entire store was dark and alarm started going off…the guy obviously thought I had left and closed down the store….I managed to escape- the main entrance could be unlocked from inside but I had to hang around (guess I didn’t have to but I thought I should) until one of the salesperson came back to check on the store… it was really fun(NOT!) 15 min. with all the noise and lights…
I got some good apologies and my salesperson promised me with some discount on my upgrade (they do not grant any discount on the 1yr trade in (full credit))… I’ll see how much I can use this as an arsenal to bring $ down..

ok, back to music, so my salesperson invited me over again for some direct A/B with the Summit last Sat.

as we all know the 803Ds are drop dead gorgeous- tall and glamorous with the shiny new D tweeter on the top.-

Bass is very good- strong well defined and go quite low (especially compared to my 703s) yet it is not as low as the Summits- given that it’s got the built-in sub-woofer. I think it is enough bass for 90% of music applications, other than some fat joe stuff…

Mid- seems a little more laid back than my 703.. sounded actually a little more congested than the 703 and the Summit (this guy is really really transparent) on vocals yet still more beamy than the Summit (forward) especially with Violin and Clarinet solos

High – it is not as intrusive than the aluminum tweeter for sure. clear and goes high high but not as piercing and very detailed. The high of the Summit is a little more laid back and maybe a little less detailed

Soundstage- wide and deep very 3D more so than the Summit or the 703. very solid images with focused presentations (each instrument is fixed at one position throughout the music (especially on the orchestral and concerto pieces)) it was overall more 3D than the Summit.
I truly enjoyed listening to both speakers and I thought I was sold on the Summit (how dare I ?) but one thing that the 803D made me turn around was the fact that the music seemed more involving and lively with the B&W than the logan and it is $2K more, of course. the MF A5 seemed a better match with the 803D than the Summit….btw..

However, other than the fact that it has the D tweeter and new bigger bass drivers, the major difference between 803D and my 703, IMHO, is the driver integration. It sometimes feels like each driver unit of the 703 plays by itself, yet all 5 drives of 803D seemed much more coherent. they were always together– Like the feeling I get from Wilson speakers (i.e. Sophia). Maybe this is the reason I think the mid is muddier than 703?
one point to consider is that my salesperson always connects the single wire on the tweeter side, not the bass side. I have experimented with this long ago when he let me borrow some transparent wires, and to my ears connecting them to the bass end made not only the bass stronger and defined but also tamed the forwardness of the mid and high…I bet the congested feel from the mid can be fixed with the biwiring (I currently use biwiring)


Is the 803D 5K better than 703? Depends how much you appreciate the overall package…
I’m planning on listening to the 803S (and the 802D for fun) and some aerial and vandersteen stuff before finalizing my decision
well it’s got long.. sorry :W

[js24]

so I had a shoot out between 803D and 802D…

electronics: MuFi kW500 integrated, Linn unidisk SC, and some thick expensive transparent cables (biwired)

music: Lalo spanish symphony (Maxim Vengerov ), Vivaldi 4 seasons (Anne-Sophie Mutter), Cecilia Bartoli (Art of Bartoli) Diana Krall (Girl in the other room) some techno some contemporary jazz/ japanese vocals

I took one of my friends along this time and we had a near 3 hour session.
cut to the point.. the 802D is MILES and MILES better than the 803D
every CD we played- from classics to technos, the 802D made awesome music!

I’m still not really convinced that the 803D is 5K better than my 703.. however, the 802D was definitely 10K better than the 703!
every aspect of the music was right
following is the list of the 802D superiority

1. the bass is not only deeper but also tighter and more tuneful (even sounded faster) than the 803D
2. the mid is much more clearer, less intrusive, and image was super sharp! it is not forward or laid back.. it is *just* right!
3. though the tweeters are the same, given the entire spectrum of music is improved, it sounded sweeter, too.

sound is much more coherent, much more focused, and much fuller. no harshness at all!
it is just so beeaauutiful!
that bowling ball head (orb, popsicle head , whatever you wanna call it) does make a night and day difference! no fatigue at all!
compared to the 802D, the 803D sounded colored, harsh, congested, and slow on the bottom….

the mid of 803D sounded a little less congested than the last time (due to wiring? amp?) yet the level of clarity and focus is not even close to the level of the 802D..

the 802D has the clarity of the ML Summit, yet had more dynamic and involving presentations.
in sum, the 802D is the BEST I’ve ever heard!

however, the 802D IS expensive… way over my budget… ah… sadness :cry:

[Zoran]

Well, JS24

Just forget the sadness - this is not apropriate feeling in this hobby... You are easily another victim of the "greener grass at neighboor garden"... If could afford, get 803D and enjoy.

From my side, I am particularely interested on head-to head comparison of 803D vs 803S. I can't afford 803D - think that new D tweeter still too pricey, beyond any economy logical point - so I ordered a par of 803S. Expecting them within 10-15 days...

So, be kind to share impressions overhere when listen 803S. Thanx.

Zoran, Macedonia

[hillen]

N802's vs 802 D's

I have been an owner of a pair of N802's for almost 6 years, so I know them pretty well, and I was very happy with them. Equipment: Bryston 4 B-SST poweramp, Tact RCS 2.0S Roomcorrection pre-amp, in my opinion a MUST have item - once you heard the 802's withoud any roomrelated time smear, you know: listening withoud roomcorrection is NO option anymore !!!! - hearing IS believing !! - A month ago - after waiting a few weeks after ordering the new ones, the new 802 Diamonds arrived (beautiful rosenut).
All I can say is the improvements are very very real and significant. As good as the N802's are, the difference between the N802's and the 802D's is night and day. The bass has a different, better quality: much deeper AND - more importantly - much tighter than I have ever experienced before with the Nautilus 802's. Maybe because of the better bassquality, the timing is so much better - piano music and human voices - solo and choral music - Yes I do listen to classical music very often - are so much more open and less coloured. To my surprise it is also clearly audible, that the distortion of the new D's is much lower than before. Some parts of some records always sounded distorted ( Te Deum - Hector Berlioz ) and I thought it was the recording to blame. Now the same pieces are very clean, even at higher volumes.
The sensitivity seems more than 1 db lower ( spec: 90 db/1 mtr vs 91 db/1 mtr @ 1 Watt ), because now with the 802 D's, I generally set the volumelevel ( digital reading ) 4 db higher than before to reach the same subjective soundpressure level. I phoned B&W, and they explained that the difference in sensitivity is no more than 1 db, but because of the lower distortion, the volumelevel just SEEMS to be lower than before using the same actual level ( + 1 db ), being a very good sign of the qualities of 802D's !! As you see, I didn't mention the diamond tweeters yet, but that's because I think the tweeters are just one of the many improvements, realized in the new D version. Yes, the high's are really awesome ( after a break in of a few day's, being a bit sharp in the very beginning ), not drawing any attention to them at all. I experience details I never heard before. In summery I believe the differences between the N 802's and the 802 D's are even bigger than the difference between the Matrix 801S3's - I owned before the N802's - and the N 802's!!!
Never I have been more happy with the soundreproduction than now!!

[js24]

hillen,
nice take~! :T

[RNKC]

Hello everyone. I recently came across this forum and I've been lurking since. Thought I'd contribute to the cause with a few comments.

Today I auditioned the 803D in a head-to-head comparison with N803. Before I get into the comments, a few words about my system first:

Pioneer Elite DV37
Magnum Dynalab FT101A FM Tuner (fabulous tuner!)
Proceed AVP
Proceed 5 channel amp (125W per channel)
Kef 104/2 Reference Series speakers
B&W HTM2 (now renamed as the HTM4)
B&W DM602 in the rear

The system I use as reference to judge all others is my Dad's setup:

PS Audio lambda transport
Proceed AVP2
Proceed HPA2
Proceed amp3
N802
HTM1 (now renamed HTM3)
N805

Both Dad & I tend to use our systems primarily for 2 channel audio, listening exclusively to classical music. Not surprisingly, Dad's setup sounds a fair bit better than mine.

Now, onto the audition! My salesguy had a Classé system setup so we plugged the N803 in first. My tracks of choice included some complicated orchestral passages from Berlioz Symphonie Fantastique, the Bourée from JS Bach's 3rd cello suite, the Casta Diva aria sung by Renée Fleming, the Queen of the Night aria sung by Karin Ott (Berlin Philharmonic & von Karajan), Listz's La Campanella performed by Yundi Li and Solveig's Song from Peer Gynt (Barbara Hendricks, Oslo Philharmonic, Esa Pekka Salonen).

As I expected, the N803s sounded great! One thing I find with my current setup is that the Kef's seem to show their age. With a piece like Symphonie Fantastique, the Kef's tend to compress the sound particularly if there's a lot going on. The dynamic range of modern recordings is also something the Kef's don't seem to like all the time. There's no peak clipping, but it's as though the sound gets lost inside those beautifully crafted speaker chambers. I know that there's music there, but the Kef's just can't keep up.

The N803s on the other hand displayed none of these characteristics. There was no compression, no muddling of detail, no "interpretation" of sound by the speaker. But, every time I've listed to the N803 I've always found something missing. (Ah, the problem of any serious audiophile!) The N803 to me is a speaker that always wanted to deliver, but never quite could. This in fact is what convinced Dad to go with the N802 as his mains - they had everything the N803 didn't. (Of course, once he got the N802 it necessitated a new amp, then a new preamp, then new cables, then new interconnects, then moving the system to a different room ... you guys know the drill!)

So as I was listening to the N803, I was thinking that yes, they are much superior to my well-loved Kef's, but ... those N802s are just that bit better.

We cut over to the 803D. The first thing that happened is that they sounded different. Better? Maybe, but certainly different. Then I noticed that I was no longer hearing each portion of the speaker. With the N803 I could distinctly hear the bass driver seperately from the mid seperate from the tweeter. On the 803D the speakers melted away - they really weren't there anymore. The breadth of the soundstage was quite similar on the 2 speakers, but the depth of the 803D seemed greater to me. I could really hear the trombones sitting behind the flutes. I could tell the oboe was seated slightly behind the second violins. This was getting interesting.

I moved on to the cello suite. This recording was made by Rostropovich in the cathedral at Vezelay France. (If you get a chance, you should go there - it's a really neat place.) The prominent feature of this particular cathedral is the Tympanum - an area at the entrance with a high vaulted ceiling and walls of just the right height to make this area acoustically fantastic. When you stand in the middle of this area and clap your hands, you can hear the sound decay all around you with an airiness and clean, crispness that's hard to imagine let alone record let alone reproduce on speakers. Yet, as I listened to Rostropovich make his cello sing, I could hear that same airy clean sound of the Tympanum. Even Dad's N802 never sounded like this; they came close, but never like this.

On to the solo piano. I play the piano myself so I have a distinct sonic impression in my mind whenever I listen to recordings. And thus far, no matter what system I've listened to I've never been fully satisfied with piano recordings. When I sit at my keyboard, I know what things should sound like and recordings never quite sound like that. The 803Ds still didn't sound perfect, but boy did they ever sound good. I commented to my salesguy that these speakers had done the best piano reproduction I've ever heard. Even when I listened to N800 with Levinson everything hooked up it didn't sound like this. It makes me wonder what the 802D / 801D / 800D sound like ...

Female vocals sounded great too. But did they sound better on the 803D vs N803? Yes they did. But surprisingly I didn't find as much of a difference here as I thought I would.

As I kept listening I kept noticing new things. The decay of the instruments was more pronounced on the 803D. I liked this - it was much more realistic. After the bows left the strings, after the last breath passed through the brass and woodwinds, after the percussionist had his last hit of the timpani, I could hear that magical moment when the sound just hangs in the air and time slows down just for a moment.

My impression is that the 803D are in fact, better sounding speakers than the N802. Clearly this is no mean feat. But I also think that the 803D are relatively easy speakers to drive. They don't have that hungry feeling to them that the N802 do; there are times when even an HPA2 doesn't seem quite up to the task of driving the N802 but I never got that feeling with the 803D.

The 803D is a pretty big speaker too. The footprint is small but it's tall speaker that's pretty hefty - 45kg (98 lbs). Having said that, the N802 is truly big speaker that needs a truly big room to live in. If your room has a small volume of air, the N802 is the wrong speaker for you. But my impression is that the 803D would do very well in a small room and would hold its own in a large one as well.

Sounds like I'm sold on the 803D right? Well, I must admit there's still a moment of pause. In Canadian dollars, the N803 = $7000. It's $11,000 for the 803D. (And $17,000 for the 802D.) Are the 803D 60% better than the N803? Of course not, but that's par for the course - you spend thousands more for a marginal increase right? (This hobby is just wrong sometimes ...) So how much better is the 803D in real terms?

Well, like I said the 803D to my ears is a better speaker than the N802. It's clearly not the be-all, end-all of speakers because we all know that eventually B&W will come out with something even better than the D's. But I have to say, I'd be hard-pressed to find a better all-round speaker than the 803D. It's a speaker that's about as future-proof as you can get. By this I mean that you can safely buy this speaker and years from now still be convinced that you made a good purchase. The ease with which one can drive these speakers is appealing as well as it means you won't necessarily feel the need to run out and buy a couple of serious monoblocks. (Because once you have your monoblocks, you may as well upgrade the preamp to match, but then you need a better source which will require better interconnects ...)

Spending $11K on anything is always a momentous occasion, but as I sit here and type I know that I've already justified in my own head that my next speakers should be 803Ds. I just need to finish convincing myself that it's OK to spend that much on toys!

[martino]

Excellent work! Thanks for taking the time to let us know your thoughts...with the love of music you obviously have, you deserve the 803D's.
I'm in the process of running in my new 803S's....fun stuff!!

Cheers

Martin