N802 with Krell or Classe?

[johan]

Hi,

I own a pair of Nautilus 802 and I am looking for an amp. I am interested in a Classe CA-3200 since I want something for my HTM1 as well. But at that price or less I can get a used Krell Fpb300cx. I have never heard any Krell amp so it would be great to hear someone with experiences of Krell/Nautilus. I have no doubt about Krell being an absolutely top class amp, but my worry is that it often is described as "cool sounding", and I dont know if that would be a good combination since I feel that my N802s can be a bit on the bright side with some recordings. I like the sound of the Classe amp so I would be grateful for comparisons between the two (and others in the same price range, just no Brystons or Rotels please). Cheers!!

[spiridon]

To my taste N802 better combination is with Levinson- the sound is more warm then Krell and too much better then Classe.GL

[RobP]

Johan, you are looking at the same type of setup that I am shooting for with the exception that I have N803's. I have heard both the Krell and the Classe combinations and the Classe setup was in my opinion the better sounding choice.The Krell sounded alot more flat and dry compared to the Classe. Now if I can just convince my wife that $6000 is really not that much for an amp........... HMMMMM????

[johan]

Soundgravy,

What Krell did you listen to, was it one of those multichannel amps? I am talking about the FBPcx-series.

[georgev]

I use a Levinson with my 802's and it is superb.
I think the Classse 3200 will be a little inadequate for the 802's. Maybe a Cam 350.
Please do audition the Levinson with the 802's. Mgnifique.
Cheers.

[Stockinv]

Levinson

Which Levinson amp(s)?

[TimL]

I am using a Krell KAV 3250 at 250w x 3 for my N802s and my HTM1. While I agree that Levinson amps are good my Krell sounds very good with great detail and in my "opinion" very warm with a well defined sound stage. I have heard - at my dealer the Rotel and Bryston and while not as clean and detailed as the Krell the Byrston also did a good job. Hope my experience helps

[jericho]

I heard a Classé CA-2200 on the new 802D it was the best I've heard until now, better than Bryston or Accuphase.Have no experience with ML, McIntosh or Krell because I myself am searching for a good match on my new 800D.Any idea about JC-1 Parasound?

[SRT-10 Viper]

I have Classe Cam/350s for my 800Ds... Prior to the 800Ds, I had them hooked to N802s. Sound is very good... I've never had Krell on my system, however did hear them with 802Ds at a dealer... They have more punch than the CAM/350s, however they sounded a little bright which to me would be have a fatigue factor.

[Andrew M Ward]

A little Clarity

Just to clear things up a bit...

The Classe' 3200 amps have no trouble powering the 802D product, in fact any one of the X200 Classe' amps is more than suitable to power 99% of the speakers manufactured on this planet... :wink:

-Andrew M Ward

[georgev]

Stockinv,
I use the ML 332.5.
I think the krell's bass is superb but falls a wee short in the mid and upper frequencies.
George

[georgev]

Just to clear things up a bit...

The Classe' 3200 amps have no trouble powering the 802D product, in fact any one of the X200 Classe' amps is more than suitable to power 99% of the speakers manufactured on this planet... :wink:

-Andrew M Ward

Andrew, I have no doubt the Classe can power not 99% but 100% of the speakers out there, but the question is How Well? the X200 series do have a limitation in power hence the bigger brothers eg the Cam 350/400 and the Omega series.
My ML 332.5 is quite adequate for my 802's but for an 801 or 800, I think I will have to change it.
Just my two cents worth.
George.

[johan]

Guys,

When you say you have listened to a Krell please tell me what model it was. I believe there is a big difference between older/newer, classA/HT-stuff. I am interested in the Fpb300cx in particular. Retail for a new Fpb300cx is about twice the price of a Classe CA-3200, and I might get a used one for less than the Classe. So you might see why I'm wondering.

SRT10-Viper,
I am sooooo jealous of your new speakers, could you please say something about the immediate difference when you switch between N802/800D?

Thanks guys!!

[SRT-10 Viper]

Johan; There was a big difference between the 2. The soundstage is much wider (spreads across my 25' room). The bass is much tighter and improved. The biggest highlight is the tweeter... All I can say is WOW!... OK I'll say a little more. Female voices are clean/clearer than I have ever heard. I enjoy listening to Kenny G based on the sound difference from the D tweeter. The mids are the least changed although somewhat better than N802s.

[johan]

Krell it is!!

Hi guys!
I bought the pig in the sack and wat a pig!!!!

[SRT-10 Viper]

Johan;

So what model Krell did you get? What's your impression of the unit? Looks great!

[georgev]

Well done. Enjoy the music. Every cent spent on the amp. is worth it.

[JCL]

Looks great indeed. Must he a heafy lad though that's one of the most importent service feathers you can get from your dealer, to carry it inside (upstairs) so you don't have to lifft it, I for one would be far to scared to drop it!

[johan]

Viper,

It's a Fpb300cx, (2 x 300 watts). I didn't believe my ears when I first plugged it in, from the very first note I was shure my surrounds were on by mistake but they weren't even plugged in! The soundstage is just unbelievable, it now starts in the left back corner of the room and stretches all the way around to the right back corner. And everything is as clean as it gets and really effortless. I was worried about the tonality being "cold" or "to bright" or even harsh as some Krell-bashers say, but that's not the case. It is just so so so clean and detailed, though I wouldn't call it "warm sounding". But there's is absolutely nothing harsh sounding about it at all, I would know, I'm allergic to that. And power?, will I ever need more? maybe if I were about to kill an elephant in the electric chair, but I'am not.

You might see that theese are words from an enthusiastic-just-purchased-a-high-end-component-hifi-nerd, and the amps I was replacing was Nad. So I just might be a bit over-enthusiastic but to me the Krell is just a killer. I would recomend it anytime. The Classe Delta sounds a bit smoother and warmer but it can't compete with the soundstage and bass drive of the Krell. I would love to hear it with your 800D's Viper, the impact must be crazy. Do you have any pics in any thread Viper? If not, please upload some, I would love to see a setup containing N802 as rear speakers! The sound in your place must be impressing.

Happy Valborgsmässoafton!!

[caleb]

Johan,

Try playing the Roger Waters amused to death CD - the track where the logs are being chopped and the carthorse goes by.

This is an awesome soundstage if I ever heard one.

[jimmyp58]

Good luck. The Krell is a dandy.

[wsung23]

I use Mark Levinson No.335 as amp, No. 380 as preamp (although all of them has been discontinued) to drive 802, sound is clean, but too clean, everything I heard is "real", but just because it's real, it isn't as sweet as I expect. However, I think I can accept this combination.

I auditioned Krell amp before I decided to buy ML series, I have to decline Krell series, because combination of Krell with 802 is good to listen symphony (krell amp is so powerful), but it may not a good choice to listen human voice (too electric). I like to listen singing, but hate to listen tedious symphony (personal opinion, no offence), so I chose ML.

Before I brought ML, I used to use Denon AVC-A1 to drive 802, now I still think, if I select "direct" bypass, and use my musical fidelity CD decoder, sound is not worst than I use Mark Levinson amp/preamp.

Someone said Classe amp only can output small ampers, which can't drive 802.

Whatever you use Krell or Mark Levinson, please mind size and structure of your audition room. If wall (facing your loudspeakers) is not solid wall which can reflect sound well, you won't get problem having too much bass (I have to put a large sofa in my not-large room to absorb bass); or size of your room is at least 30 square meters.

[SRT-10 Viper]

Johan;

Here is a picture of the 800Ds... I'll have to see if I can take one with the surrounds.

http://www.htguide.com/forum/attachment.php4?attachmentid=2651

http://www.htguide.com/forum/attachment.php4?attachmentid=2652

[georgev]

Absolutely beautifuuuuuuuuuuuuul. Looks really awesome.
Way to go Viper.
What is your front end?
Must be hard to leave that room.

[SRT-10 Viper]

Georgev; I have more to invest in my front end.. Currently, I have Classe Cam/350 mono amps with the new Classe Delta stereo pre-amp for 2 Channel (this I'll keep). The classe has HT passthru to a Denon 5803A. I will probalbly change the Denon to either the new 5085 (like the room correction option) or go higher end with either Lexicon 12B V4 or Meridian 861 V4. I also need to replace my front channel with the diamond series HTM2D (the HTM1D is to big for my setup). This is a fun hobby... Does cost a lot more than you think when diving in... However the sound is worth it!

[JetFlyGuy]

I am using a Classe CA-5200 to power my 803s, and I love it.

[Seeme]

Krell or Classe -

Hi guys,

I just wanted to provide my finding when I did my testing. I was able to test several Amp's in my home for a long period of time "two weeks" and I found the following in my testing:

Though the Classe can not match the Krell on its bass dymanics "Not many amp's can that I have found" it does have a blacker background that adds to the soundstage and detail of these amps. After long hours of listening, I found the Classe just easier to listen to over a long term and the clarity was un-matched for a amp this price. It was dymanic and detailed. I did my testing on the 802, 803 and 804. I owned the 804's and I wanted to trade up for the 802D's but in the end I ending up getting the Dali's MS5's. I had the following amps for audition from my dealer "Classe CA-301, CA-3200, Mac MC-501 and MC - 402, Krell TAS, Krell Fpb300cx, Bryston 9Bst Jeff Rowlands "I used this one as a reference because it was just too much money".

Don't get me wrong the Classe had the 802D Roch... bass driver moving and I thought that amp controled the bass better but for SPL levels the Krell rocked. I added a sub and got the same thing after proper intergration.

I have the CA-3200 now as I needed three channels for the center and I'm truly happy. A perfect system would be to bi-amp the CA-2200 on the Mids and Highs and the Krell on the Bass.

In the end you still have to listen for your self. Enjoy :T

[Andrew M Ward]

Loads of Bass

Loads of Bass is a great way to hide your lacking board topology...

Bass is not the final answer, its only a small portion of the final composition. Adding Slam is a fantastic way of distracting the listener, hopefully they won't have an extended listening period, where they figure out that you're simply hiding your lack of resolution with "Bang" and "Boom"

I say the softest thing in the universe will eventually overcome the hardest thing. I just hope we've all saved our ears after the Hardest thing is replaced with the softest thing...

Classe' is a vastly superior product.

[Aussie Geoff]

Guys,

I think when we are into claims that one highly regards amp is "vastly superior" over the another highly regarded amp, form experience this can lead to great threads degenerating....

Lets remember that different model Krell amps and Classe amps have their own characteristics even within the range and that people are looking for varying things when they listen. Both amp ranges have killer reps and it comes down to personal preference along with room and speaker characteristics. I could live with either (that driving Krell Bass and 3D soundstage is addictive) but would put my money on the Classe as being at RRP better sound for my ears overall (the subtle clarity of detail is soooo revealing). But get 20 people seleced at random in a room and more than half could hear no difference, with the others split on which was better for them... There is no one right answer here for everyone. People have to listen to both to decide if they possibly can. We are in a small group that focuses on (what for most people) are minor differences in sound and get very excided about it. The general public is happy with MP3s on their $1000 stereos...

Every owner I have meet that has taken the time to listen to both is happy with their choice as being right for them. "I bought X over Y because for me I really liked the A, B and C". You can see this with some of the thoughtful posts above... :T

For those that can't listen (dealers don't stock them) my advice is generally based on what people listen to and the price in the country. In most counties Classe, model for model is cheaper than Krell, so unless they mostly listen to Rock / Pop the Classe will give a better value sound for the same $ and is used by B&W in their reference testing of their 800 series. If people are more into Pop Rock and can get a great deal on the Krell - then they are also usually very happy with Krell - I know their sound on Rock takes me on a ride that makes you gust grin!

Personnaly, living is Australia the price of both is ridiculous becuase of exchange rates and high margins by importers, so I'd be grateful to have either :banana: and (for now) can just dream...

Regards

Geoff

[TimL]

Well said! Thanks ;x(

[misterdoggy]

Boy I was getting ready to throw my krells out the window :W

[Andrew M Ward]

Boy I was getting ready to throw my krells out the window :W

No, save them
they're great for all sorts of things...





:rofl:

[Andorian]

Hi Johan,

Thanks for your nice thread, from which i learned a lot for my own quest.
Nice to hear that your have that thing running,
Andor.

[K.K.]

I had the following amps for audition from my dealer "Classe CA-301, CA-3200, Mac MC-501 and MC - 402, Krell TAS, Krell Fpb300cx, Bryston 9Bst Jeff Rowlands "I used this one as a reference because it was just too much money".

Seeme

My dealer still has new boxed CA-301 units at discount. How does this compare to the CA-22oo? Would the extra 100w on the older model be better than the 2200?

Thanks

[Seeme]

Hi K.K.

For me, it would depend on the price differences. I have had both in my home for an extended listening audition and I found the new CA-2200 to have more power than "at the time" my CA-301. I found the CA-301 to be a great amp but the refinements that Classe made on the new delta line has made an improvement on the detail, soundstage and hooked up to the same speakers the CA-2200 provided better bass on the 802's and 800 sig's that I auditioned. I have found that more wattage doesn't mean more output because in that same test the CA-301 had more bass output than the Mac MC501 and MC402 which are rated at 500 and 400 in 8ohms.

If you could get the CA-301 for somewhere around $2700 which is about average on Audiogon or lower, than I was say go for it because it's a great amp at that price and it matches with the B&W's great, but if it's more than that, I would go for the CA-2200. Just my HO.

Just as a side note, my dealer was pushing the mac's and I went in wanting to trade in my CA-301 for the MC501 because I was getting ready to get the 802D's and I wanted something with more power for the bass. "As I'm sure we all do for the power hunger B&W's" and I had them hook up every amp in the store and I brought my 804's and my CA-301 with me and they had 802's and 800 sig's on hand. Right away I found that the Classe had the sound I was looking for and I almost kept the CA-301 until I hooked up the CA-2200. The bass was better and the soundstage was deeper and quiter. I then packup up my SUV and brought them all home for a in house audition.

Classe really did a great job on the Delta series and I can clearly see why B&W bought them.

Hope this helped.

[K.K.]

Hi Seeme

Many thanks for your prompt reply. This helps a lot in my research and I will certainly get both amps for demo before deciding. I have not checked the exact pricing on the CA-301 and the CA-2200 with my dealer yet although I suspect the CA-2200 could be quite a bit more than the 301.

Initially I thought that B&W just repackaged the CA-xx1 models into the new chasis and charge a lot more money for them but it looks like they have actually made significant improvements too. I am actually looking for more bass oomph on my 803s and based on what you've experienced, the CA-2200 could be the better bet despite the extra $$$.

Cheers :T

[Seeme]

No problem...

Let us know how your audition goes.

I thought the same think as well at first, that they just re-packaged the older version but with the new engineer from Mark Lev changing somethings and then they took from the new Omega series as the new CA-M400 is a mini Omicron with less power and some additonal upgrades.

Your right on the price though, it will be 5000.00. I was able to trade in my CA-301 towards the CA-3200 to help me out.

Good Luck :T