Is the HTM3S worth the price?

[RebelMan]

I spent about an hour comparing the HTM3S and the HTM4S at my local dealer today. They were each paired with the 803S's and the ASW825. I was using "The Haunting" as my demo DVD.

Not surprisingly, I found the HTM3S to sound better than the HTM4S (it was less "boxy" sounding). However, the HTM3S didn't appear to sound THAT much better, just a little. But the price is almost twice as much. I can afford the difference but I wonder if it is really worth it?

My dilema...

Would I miss someting by going with the HTM4S or would I regret spending the money on the HTM3S? Did anyone else find themselves in a similar situation? What did you do?

[johan]

It depends on what other speakers you have. Anything from 804 and up needs to be paired with HTM3 or higher thanks to the FST-midrange. But if you have 805s you'd be better of with HTM4.

[RebelMan]

The speakers would be 804S or 803S. I was just curious if most people would choose the HTM4S over the HTM3S because it seems to be the better buy. I thought the HTM3S sounded (a little) better, but it didn't sound twice as good as its price would lead you to believe. Unfortunately, I don't have the luxury of testing it out for a while to help me make up my mind. I listen to HT 60% of the time. Is the center channel really that critical? Help???

[Verinnal]

I'm also curious about this. Are the 804s matched in any way to the sound of the HTM4S? I don't really listen to any multichannel music at all as I prefer 2 channels but for movies if something moves across three different speakers I want the soundstage to be seamless. Will the HTM4s be problematic in this respect? In the original post of the stickied thread that talks about the newer 800 series the poster mentions that the HTM4s is a suitable center channel for the 804s.

Some comments on mixing and matching:
Quote:
One of the design goals that B&W had for the new Nautilus range was to preserve the investment made by existing owners by allowing “mix and matching”. To support this, the new range deliberately retained the same visual look and aesthetics as the previous range. With the Nautilus range already being extremely neutral, maintaining a compatible sonic signature was also a natural outcome.

The new Standard or Diamond series front speakers can be added to an existing surround sound system using older model Nautilus rear speakers. Equally the new Standard range surround speakers (SCMS and DS8 ) can be added to systems with older model Nautilus front speakers. ASW subwoofers are fully compatible across the new and old Nautilus ranges.

B&W do, however recommend that the front speakers are maintained of the same series wherever possible to maintain a seamless soundstage. Recommended combinations are:
1) 800D or 801D or 802D with HTM1D
2) 802D or 803D with HTM2D
3) 803S or 804S with HTM3S
4) 804S with HTM4S

[EAmin]

The dialogue in all of your HT movies are coming from the center. And if you listen to multi-channel audio, the voices/singing is also coming from the center as well.

You should buy the matching center. 803S, 804S goes with the HTM3S. All are 3-way speakers. 805S goes with the HTM4S because both are 2-way speakers.

The speakers would be 804S or 803S. I was just curious if most people would choose the HTM4S over the HTM3S because it seems to be the better buy. I thought the HTM3S sounded (a little) better, but it didn't sound twice as good as its price would lead you to believe. Unfortunately, I don't have the luxury of testing it out for a while to help me make up my mind. I listen to HT 60% of the time. Is the center channel really that critical? Help???

[ZX10 Guy]

The better way to go is to get a real matching center as in another 804S. Center channel speakers are a compromise. Unfortunately, I didn't think through my purchases as I may have not bought the HTM 1 I have now and sometimes think I would have been better served by buying another N804 for my center.

[aphexist]

The better way to go is to get a real matching center as in another 804S. Center channel speakers are a compromise. Unfortunately, I didn't think through my purchases as I may have not bought the HTM 1 I have now and sometimes think I would have been better served by buying another N804 for my center.

Does your multi-channel system double as a home theater? Unless you have the space and the proper screen, having a floor-standing speaker as the center channel is more of a compromise. I would venture to say having a horizontally oriented center channel speaker is the best way to go for 95% of the home-theater consumers that do not have a perforated front-projection screen or a wall-hung plasma.

[ZX10 Guy]

Does your multi-channel system double as a home theater? Unless you have the space and the proper screen, having a floor-standing speaker as the center channel is more of a compromise. I would venture to say having a horizontally oriented center channel speaker is the best way to go for 95% of the home-theater consumers that do not have a perforated front-projection screen or a wall-hung plasma.

Yeah my multi-channel system doubles as my HT system too. Thus, the reason why I bought a plasma screen so I can have the center channel in line with my mains. After some thinking, I keep thinking I should have bought another N804 floorstander. The HTM 1 isn't exactly the same as the N804 like the HTM 2 is when paired with the N805. The HTM 1 is a sealed box design where as the N804 is a ported speaker. Plus the horizontal arrangement of the woofers has a distinct change in sound that isn't necessarily for the better when compared to a vertical arrangement of woofers. My system philosphy is to maximize sound quality first and then look at the video. I don't we'll see when I get my sound room done if I have a change of heart about the HTM 1.

[junior77blue]

Well, according to THX they cross the centers over at 80Hz...so, whether its ported or sealed shouldn't really matter. THe main focus is the upper-midbass and midrange/tweeter.

I wouldn't get too hung up on the difference between the N804 and HTM1.

The difference between the HTM1 vs. HTM2...will maybe be a little more of an issue. Since, the main difference is the similar FST driver. I'm using an HTM2 with my N802. Just for the shear pleasure, I might put my N804 as a 'center' channel and see if there's an impact on the front stage. I imagine there will be...but how noticeable?

[RebelMan]

I'm using an HTM2 with my N802. Just for the shear pleasure, I might put my N804 as a 'center' channel and see if there's an impact on the front stage. I imagine there will be...but how noticeable?

I hope you get the chance to try this, and to let us know what you think. BTW, are you satisfied with the HTM2? What made you choose it over the HTM1?

[RebelMan]

The better way to go is to get a real matching center as in another 804S. Center channel speakers are a compromise. Unfortunately, I didn't think through my purchases as I may have not bought the HTM 1 I have now and sometimes think I would have been better served by buying another N804 for my center.

Hmm, how much of your time is split between HT and multi-channel audio? I get the impression most of your time is spent on the later. Would you still make this recommendation to someone that spends most of their time with HT or 2CH audio only?

[junior77blue]

Am I satisfied with the HTM2....yes. Could it be better....possibly. But, it's 'like' comparing the 805 to an 804...both are great sounding speakers! Most would say the 804 just has more of a bottom end. I wonder how they would compare both being crossed over @ 80Hz or even 60Hz.

I chose the HTM2 over the HTM1 due to cost and size. The HTM2 fits nicely into my audio rack, whereas the HTM1 would be on a stand and be out of place with the rack I've purchased. The a/v rack was originally intended for use with a CDM-CNT.

[RebelMan]

Am I satisfied with the HTM2....yes. Could it be better....possibly. But, it's 'like' comparing the 805 to an 804...both are great sounding speakers! Most would say the 804 just has more of a bottom end. I wonder how they would compare both being crossed over @ 80Hz or even 60Hz.

Thanks, for the feedback regarding the HTM2.

I tend to agree with you regarding the 804 and 805 comparison. However, I do think the FST driver makes quite a bit of difference between the two for 2CH sources, but as a center channel I question its worth.

I chose the HTM2 over the HTM1 due to cost and size.

This is the kind of feedback I have been looking for. I suspect that a lot of people make a similar decision, but I wanted to confirm my suspicions.

[junior77blue]

Most people on this forum will tell you that you MUST HAVE the HTM1 when matching it with 804 or greater. Logically, I agree...FST midrange, center channel is the most important, etc...

But in my experience, you can't go wrong with either speaker. When I'm watching a movie, its not like I can tell a difference in the front stage. But maybe my ears are as sensitive as some peoples.

Bottom line is if you have the extra money & room...go for the HTM1. If not, stick with the HTM2. Just be happy in whichever decision you make and enjoy the system!

[RebelMan]

Most people on this forum will tell you that you MUST HAVE the HTM1 when matching it with 804 or greater. Logically, I agree...FST midrange, center channel is the most important, etc...

But in my experience, you can't go wrong with either speaker. When I'm watching a movie, its not like I can tell a difference in the front stage. But maybe my ears are as sensitive as some peoples.

Bottom line is if you have the extra money & room...go for the HTM1. If not, stick with the HTM2. Just be happy in whichever decision you make and enjoy the system!

I think your right. And I hope I am happy(ier) with HTM3S. But honestly, I won't know (for sure) until I get it, thus my delima. Buyer's remorse is an awful feeling, as you may know. Thanks junior.

[Andrew M Ward]

Model confusion

Attention:

Last years HTM1 is this years HTM3S (approximately)
Last years HTM2 is this years HTM4S (approximately)

Rohacell driver difference and rolled surround S tweeter difference and crossover upgrades all exsist in the latest versions

Be certain what your listening to or looking at

See here:

New = HTM1D = Qty. 3 x 8in Rohacell and Marlan Headed FST Kevlar with Diamond tweeter = $8K (stands 25 inches high when directly on the floor)

New = HTM2D = Qty. 2 x 7in Rohacell drivers FST with no Marlan head but does have Diamond tweeter = $4k

Kind of New = HTM3S = Same as last years HTM1 but with Rohacell drivers upgraded crossover and S rolled surround tweeter

Kind of new = HTM4S = basically HTM2 from last year with new S tweeter

-Andrew

[RebelMan]

Thanks Andrew, but I think junior and I both knew that. I believe he has the older Nautilus 800 series and I am about to get into the new 800 series. Both HTM series speakers, as you already mentioned, are very similar.

Whether it's the HTM1 vs the HTM2 or the (new) HTM3S vs the HTM4S, the comparisons are exactly the same.

[Andrew M Ward]

I can be slow

Oh... h: Oops

Yes I see

(Never mind)

[junior77blue]

Yep, fully understood...but doesn't hurt to ensure!

Too bad you can't demo them both at your home for a period of time to see what the actual differnce and if the increased cost can be justified.

[RebelMan]

No problem Andrew, you were just trying to help, thanks.

I sure wish I could demo them. It would help me make up my mind!

[RobP]

Hey Rebel, I was fortunate enough to own both the HTM1 and the HTM2 at the same time, I tried them both with my 805's and my 803's as mains. of course the speakers with the matching mid drivers sounded the best together, but over all the HTM1 is really a much better speaker. The center channel is the most important speaker in any home theatre, so dont skimp on it. One problem that I did notice with the change of the center speaker was that even though both centers are rated at the same impedance, the HTM1 will take more power, so if you are running it with smaller mains then it will sound laid back and you will find yourself fiddiling with the output level on the processor trying to compensate for the mismatch. Which is not really a good way to go about it. Bottom line here is you should keep all of your main speakers of the same timbre. That is what I found by my comparison.

[RobP]

BY the way, when I first got my HTM1 I thought it sounded a little "boxy" myself, but so did my HTM2. after running them both in they lost that boxy sound.

[RebelMan]

Soundgravy, your experience and comments on this matter are very helpful, thankyou.

The center channel is the most important speaker in any home theatre, so dont skimp on it.

So I take this to mean that you found the price of the HTM1 (HTM3S in my case) to be worth it?

[RobP]

hey Rebel, I do think it was worth the extra money, although I did not pay full price. I purchased my new HTM1 for $1300.I would have paid the full price for the upgrade, but Im a cheap ass.

[RobP]

Hey Rebel, if you get the chance, go out and get a copy of the movie "Open Range" with Robert Duvall and Kevin Costner. Take it to the dealer and watch the gun fight scene towards the end of the movie listening to both speakers,. The first time I heard the opening shot on the HTM1, my wife and I jumped and checked ourselves for bulletholes. That movie will really show the difference between the two.

[RebelMan]

hey Rebel, I do think it was worth the extra money, although I did not pay full price. I purchased my new HTM1 for $1300.I would have paid the full price for the upgrade, but Im a cheap ass.

WOW, you got a great price on it. My dealer will let me have the HTM3 for $2000 which I think is pretty good. Given that the HTM1 listed for $2000 and you would have paid full price for it, I think I can accept that too. BTW, did you get the matching stand to go with it?

[RobP]

No, I purchased a stand from Sound Anchor, it lets me raise the speaker higher than the B&W stand.