Second Hand First Impressions of the new Nautilus Series

[DanR]

My cousin's husband works in the embassy in England and got a chance to hear the 800D, 802D and 803D&S last night in Sussex. In a nutshell, he felt the 800, 802 and 803S were not worth all the extra money but that the 803D was definately night and day over the N803 and very close to the N802. He talked to me for roughly 25 minutes about his impressions of each speaker and how they sounded on various pieces of music. He is extremely knowledgable and a B&W lifer. He still has his vintage pair of 1979 801's. He has lived in England for 33 years and I trust his judgement without question. Anyone wanting a more detailed explanation of any of the above 4 speakers he heard, I will be glad to elaborate. Just too long to get into here. By the way, visually the speakers are almost impossible to tell apart from the current series. He said the diamond tweeters are very striking and that is the only way to tell the difference.

[Twincam]

803D...me want!
I would be intrerested to hear a bit more about what he thought of the 803S compared with 803 (and maybe also the 804 if he ever listened to that). "Not worth the money" does not sound like a huge improvment, if any at all

[Aussie Geoff]

DanR,

Make that 2 for the 803D

Geoff

[DanR]

Twincam- the new 803D has 3 7" Rohacell bass drivers and extra matrix bracing versus the 803S staying very similar to the current N803. It only has two Rohacell drivers. The biggest difference was in the bass response. Much more powerful with a quick, tight slam. This in turn clears up the midrange and makes the speaker even more balanced from top to bottom. Unfortunately the diamond tweeters are a huge passed on cost(they are synthetic by the way, not real). Yes, they do extend frequency response to beyond 100KHz, but the reasoning behing the advantage we can hear is very esoteric and hard to understand. Scientists claim that if the entire frequency spectrum is reproduced, then the 20-20KHz we can hear is improved. Many other companies, most notably Thiel have tried this technology without a huge amount of success. It is simply that the audible gains are slight while the gain in your dealers cash register is NOT. It is just too much extra money for a small difference. On another note, the Rohacell material versus the paper/Kevlar is a matter more of simplifying the crossover than a better material. They both sound great and have their advantages and disadvantages.

[sikoniko]

It seems to me, from what you have said DanR, is that current Nautilus owners shouldn't really be in a hurry to upgrade. That there are differences, but they are subtle. People wanting to get into the new range will enjoy the updates and improvements, which some may perceive as marginal. Of course its all subjective anyways...

As far as value, I'm not sure I see value in the new line. If the 803D is almost or as good as the 802 in a smaller body, then it is kind of disturbing to me that one would have to pay more or the same for something similar in a smaller body. It would seem to make sense to me that the only way there would be value in it is if it were priced somewhere between current 803 and current 802. I understand that the diamond technology is more expensive, but it will drop as costs are recouped and the lifecycle begins to slope downward.

I understand inflation, but there doesnt seem to be a tangible value for me in paying $8000US for and 802s1 or $8000 US for an 803D when both are comperable in quality and clarity.

b&w is charging more because they know we will pay it. It seems that in our excitement, the idea of the new series has overwhelmed us. I'm sure they sound awesome, dont get me wrong, but I think b&w's pricing strategy is too high when it comes to the new diamond speakers.

[DanR]

sikoniko,
I agree wholeheartedly!!! I think for the first time, B&W is taking advantage of its customer base and doing a little price gouging. I don't feel the new speakers are worth their price and if I were in the market for speakers I would be racing to my dealer to get the discounts on the Nautilus Series I gear. Way too much money for the "diamond advantage"- which won't even be realized by 90% of the market. B&W is trying to capitalize on the "gotta have the latest and greatest syndrome".

[Ash]

DanR,

It would be great if you could elaborate on the performance of the (old) N802 and the 803D. Cause I'm really considering to buy the N802 (only one is left with the dealer) before my dealer gets any new diamod series and would appreciate the info.

thanks

[DrBoom]

I still don't think you could EVER go wrong with buying an 802, it still has the Marlan head advantage, better and stiffer cabinet, and it weighs almost 2x as much.
Plus it has far greater power handling than even the 803D, 500W vs 350W.
My choice would be made quite easily, i'll take the 802 anytime.

Regarding the huge price jump with the diamond tweeters, I don't think B&W is pricing them too high because if you look at other diamond tweeters like the Thiel & Partner, if you have to buy these tweeters they'll set you back $2500 as well (just for the tweeters).

[Cowanrg]

we have a pretty full line of the new stuff on order for our store. we have B&W coming to set them up and give us the dish on them as soon as they get there (i guess thats what you get for being second largest B&W dealer in nation :B ) im curious. never really been a B&W fan (not bad speakers, just not my taste), so im interested to see how much better they can get them.

the 802's are nice speakers and all, but VERY power hungry. you can take the 803's and hook them up to a denon entry-level receiver and they can sound decent. the 802's sound pretty mediocre unless you give them GOOD gear. they will bitch at you unless you give them TONS of clean power. at least thats my experience. ive never heard them sound good unless its a great install. however, the 803's, 04's and 05's sound decent with whatever you give them.

[DanR]

Ash,
I agree totally with DrBoom. Grab the 802's!! Remember that I said the 803D's were close to the N802's. Close but not there. The N802 is a better speaker all around. Cowanrg is right as well- I hope you have a beefy amplifier. They sing once you go past 200-250Wpc. Bass response is still better on the 802's and the Marlan head and Nautilus tweeter are a great combo. The hype behing the diamonds really is just that. It is a tremendous amount of money for a very subtle difference. And mind you I say difference- because diamond tweeters have been around for awhile and some people hate them. They simply have a different sound than the aluminum- not better per se, just different. The 802 is really in a class by itself. It does sound very different from the 801, but extremely similiar to the 800. Midrange on all B&W's is exceptional, but I really feel the Marlan enclose for the 802's FST gives it a pretty substantial advantage. Total separation means no coloration whatsoever from your bass drivers. It is simply a very clean and pure mid-range sound. As far as the Nautilus tweeter- it is awesome! Some claim a bit forward, but not to me, especially on a pair of SoundAnchors stands. From my point of view, unless you listen to a lot of chamber music or brass, you won't be missing anything. The diamonds do their thing very high into the range and aluminum is no slouch. Maybe it can't compete on the spectrograph or with laser inferometry, but who the hell has one of those in their listening room??? Your ears are the true judge and I just don't care for the diamond tweeters- especially for what they cost. You really can't go wrong with 802's. What is your discount? Even if it is 10%- take it and run. You won't be disappointed. I absolutely love my 802's and don't see any reason to look anywhere else. They look better too!

[Ash]

DanR,

Thanks man, you totally convinced me. I was a bit hesitant at the begining but now my mind is set. I mean, the looks alone would make me go for the N802s over the N803D. I think I'm just going to go and buy them tomorrow, I can't wait any longer. My next buy would be to get a beefy amp to match them, perhaps the Rotel RB 1090 (380 watts i think).

Thanks all of you guys for the help

[DanR]

Ash,
Funny you say that... I have the Rotel RB-1090 powering my system. You will LOVE IT!!!!!!!