New B&W Nautilus Range

[weijst]

I ordered the 804S, HTM3 and dipoles New Years Eve. Sight unseen with no audition, as I vividly remember how the Siggys stood the hair up on my arms. Can't wait.

Well than I guess you held back on the fireworks this year...
I was thinking this morning: the new 804 is not really a Signature 805 with a larger cabinet (as I said before), since the latter didn't feature the FST midrange. Anyway I can't wait to demo the new 804S! I've been planning on getting myself some floorstanders for quite some time now, so let us know how they sound once they're up and running, ok gunny!

ps: DanR, some excellent points you made there!

[tmt]

maybe 802s in the end...

I forgot to mention this in my previous post: I don't consider myself an audiophile. I don't own high-end material (yet) so I don't have a trained ear. I just love to listen to music. I can only compare to my previous auditions in stores, which is difficult because all the equipment changes from store to store. So the things I write are just my own personal opinions and feelings.

I also didn't understand why they hooked the 802 to a RMB 1075 (they have enough stuff laying around!), But even with that amp it was a beatiful speaker to (briefly) listen to, so I can only imagine what it would sound like with a descent amp.

Rags, the 803D looked so big because the old 802 is already a big speaker, but it's "rounded of" at the top, which makes it not so bulky. The 803D goes straight up, higher than the 802. You have to see with your own eyes it to understand it I guess

Jeff, you are right, the diamond tweeter does sound so sweet without ever sounding harsh, no matter what volume it's playing at. It really is the best tweater I have ever heard.

I might be able to buy an "old" 802 for $6000, new! I'm seriously considering it since it has been my 'dream speaker' for many years. The guy also sells a Classe 401, which would do the 802s justice, no?

[Aussie Geoff]

Tmt,

Trusting your ears is the best way... All this technology is about what is good for you and your ears for enjoying music and HT.

And those Classe 401 400W amps will do the B&W 802s very nicely indeed! :T

Geoff

[Rags]

Well it looks like I am going for the 803S after all - I called the dealer up to talk about the diamond models and before I could say anything he said "your speakers are in".

[ti33er]

Rags, they are B&W's, you can't go wrong hehe!

[Rags]

Yeah hopefully they will be ok .

I was surprised by how quickly they arrived. I suppose in a way it made the decision for me and the money saved allows me to upgrade my processor to the fully balanced Meridian G68. I understand from a friend that Grahams HiFi in London demo Nautilus speakers using Meridian electronics so the two should be a good match. A demo is on the cards and if all goes well full Room EQ and independant source bass management, tons of processing power and Trifield mode here we come !

If it does happen I will be sad to see the C2 go - it truly is a great processor for the money

[rballister]

While I wait for the new line to show up at dealers (called around, looks like end of the month) I reviewed some of the posts about sound anchor stands with B&W speakers. In the past, I put my small floor standing models on 16" high heavy, sturdy parsons tables. The intention was simply to get them away from stuff on the floor (typical crowded one bedroom apartment). But those speakers were nowhere near as tall as the 803 or 802. It sounds like there may be some small benefit (not driving my neighbors nuts) in not having them directly sitting on the floor. Is there a sonic downside in terms of sound dispersion, or simply hearing the high end by having a large floor standing speaker like the 802 or 803 16" off the floor?

[muzick]

Some news on the Australian front (and DVD)

My local B&W dealer here in Western Australia still has no pricing yet never mind speakers. Frustrated I rang the Australian distributor and got to speak with a senior guy there. He said that pricing was "close" but still not confirmed. When asked, he told me the 803D would be AUS $15k to $16k, and the 802D most likely to be AUS $22k. These prices are *inclusive* of the 10% Australian sales tax. He did believe that the Australian consignment was about to leave the UK if it was not already on its way. He said quite firmly that the distributor would have the consignment in April.

He went on to tell me that he had been personally using a pair of 803D's for the last 3 weeks. At this point his tone changed - he lost his salesman's hat and turned into someone who had obviously been seduced by the sound from these speakers. He couldn't speak highly enough of them, saying that we had not heard anything like these before - certainly at this price point. I asked if that pair were for sale. He told me they were for the launch (!) though I suspect they are never gonna leave his home.

By the way, I asked the local B&W dealer about discounts on the old range. No go - the distributor has no stock of the old models, and funnily enough, they had just sold their old 802s (which had just come in to replace another pair sold v.recently), their 803's, and one of the centres.

The Australian pricing then has gone up (on the 802's at least $19k to $22k inc 10% tax). That is disappointing since there is still quite a large disparity between UK (no international shipping costs of course) and the USA.

Oh - almost forgot. I also asked the Aussie distributor about getting hold of the B&W DVD. He did say that it was going to be made available via the web site (I assume B&W's) soon. Dynaudio recently distributed their own DVD in a some of the hifi mags recently - I ended up with a couple of copies. Perhaps B&W's will be similar.

Will post more as I find out more.

[muzick]

...Just looked at B&W's site - the form to fill in to be sent a DVD is already there - I've just used it.

Some nice gallery pics 1024 x 768 wallpapers too.

Paul

[DanR]

rballister,
I would caution you against having either the 802 or 803's 16" off the ground. I have SoundAnchor stands for my 802's and they are only about 5 or 6 inches tall. 16 inches is way too high unless you listen to your music on a bar stool.

[jazznsoccer]

rballister

I'd think you'd want to have your tweeters right about ear level when seated in your favorite listening chair.

[hillen]

This might be of interest for owners of the current Nautilus range:
I send an e-mail to B&W speakers, England, and got the following answer:

Dear Sir,
I replaced the original plastic phaseplugs by the aluminium Signature 800
phaseplugs and noticed an improvement in the midrangeclarity of my Nautilus
802's. Recently I removed the ( grey )paint on the bottom of the phaseplug
with a piece of sandpaper, so that the alumunium material is in DIRECT
contact with the copper on the midrange magnetpole. The improvement is
immediately audible, even by a bigger margin than just by changing the
original phaseplug by the "untreated"aluminium one. I think, removing the
paint on the bottom makes a dramatic difference for the better: i.e. less
grain, less distortion. Now I am able to play even louder withoud any
strain. I am curious, what your findings are on this matter.
Kind regards,
Bram Hillen. ( Holland )


Dear Bram
Thank you for your comments.
Yes, we have also found that the aluminium plug sounds better and smoother
in the mid range, than the plastic one. The aluminium one also sounds better
than the brass and copper versions, that we have made ourselves, and also
some very expensive after sales items, marketted by other people. Why? well
that's another question altogether.... We have used some pretty
sophisticated measuring apparatus, including the "Klippel" distortion
analyser, but we have yet to show any measurable difference, between them.
Ask me in a few years time - we may have figured it out by then. For now
just trust your ears.

Best regards
Stephan Baker, B&W UK

[Stevebez]

803d's

So has anyone HEARD these babies yet ?

Rgds Steve

[james_dmi]

Had a long demo of the 803S and 803D yesterday at Grahams HifI London.

803S – Compared to old 803 it looks a little smaller but after measuring both it’s because the 803S is a little fatter and deeper but the same height, making it look like its shorter. Sound quality is noticeable better even though the new speakers are not fully run in yet. Every aspect of the sound just has that little bit more: Bass faster and ever so slightly deeper, midrange seams just a bit more open, treble had a tiny bit more energy but I think that will change when run in more, it also seamed to have more detail and slightly less grain in the upper registers.

803D – This speaker looks so cool in the flesh. Its slightly wider and deeper then the 803S and quite a bit taller. The tweeter body is longer and finished in the shinny material used on the marlin heads of the 802 and up, while the 803S has a plastic tweeter head. With the covers off those triple base drivers give the speaker a more aggressive look but this is not at all how they sound. I was concentrating on the treble at first eager to see what the diamond tweeters would sound like. The first thing I noticed was that the very high treble output was slightly down compared to the 803S but in no way was there less detail. In fact I found it even easer to hear what the drummer was doing with his symbols with this speaker. I wasn’t sure which output level was right until I heard voices then I was sold. This is the first speaker I have ever heard that gets its “s”es just right. They are not exaggerated in any way but just sounds like real humans do. I had thought the 803S controlled its sibilance just right but when we switched back it’s was no competition the 803D just does it in such a natural way. The mid-band is very similar but because you are not distracted by any high level over emphasis you hear a lot more. When I switched back to the 803S again I could hear all the new stuff that I had heard on the 803D mid-band it’s just that I had missed it the first time. The 803D also sound a lot bigger I don’t think they have any more base extension but there is more power in the bass.

The system was set up to replicate my home system and consisted of:

Arcam fmj CD33 CD player
Arcam fmj C30 Pre-Amp
2 * Arcam fmj P35 Power Amps bi-amping
QED XT400 speaker cables.

The P35 is 100W per channel amp and is not known for having massive current reserves. For stereo listening at loud but comfortable levels the bi-amp combo had no problems controlling the 803S the 803D was also well controlled up to loudish levels (as loud as I would ever use them) but the base did seem to get a bit more flabby when you turned them up while the 803S was still in control. For movie use I would say you would need more amp power to drive the 803D’s but fortunately that is not a priority for me.

[sikoniko]

excellent review james!

[rballister]

James-did you have any thoughts on how the bass in the 803D stacks up against the bass in the old 802?

[james_dmi]

Hi Ron,

No sorry I have never had a demo of either the new or old 802 although Paul Janove ,the guy doing the demo, suggested that the 803D was giving you a sound much more aligned to the old 802 then the old 803 when it came to base performance.

I have a policy to never listen to systems that a) I can’t afford or b) (as is now the case with discounted old 802) that I will never be allowed to bring into the flat. When I first took my girlfriend to listen to speakers she pointed out the 802,801 & 800 and said "Those are the ugliest things I have ever seen and we are not having those" although she did like the "snail" nautilus until she saw the price. I’m not sure I agree with her on the looks issue but I can see the point that if its a living room rather then a listing room you would always feel you had invited some modern day Daleks to dinner.

[kilwox]

800 series Canadian Pricing

Hi everybody. I'm new to this forum, but have been an avid reader for some time now. I'm wondering if anyone knows any Canadian prices for the new 800 series? I'm looking to upgrade in the next couple of months and want to figure out what I can't afford, then determine how long I have to quit eating so I can get them. Any help is appreciated.
Thanks

[jlee]

Kilwox, you remind me of that scene from Ocean's 11 where the old guy says
"ok say we get by the door we can't open, and through the lock we can't pick, up the elevator we can't move, by the guards with the uzis... we're just supposed to walk out of there with 100 million in cash?" ".... yeah..." "oh...ok!"

[kilwox]

Jlee, that's pretty much how I feel. It's a simple plan i fyou look at it that way. It worked out exactly as said in the movie too. I like to believe everything I see in the movies... :P

[Stevebez]

Seems concensus thus far is that of the new developments on the new 800 series the tweeter is perhaps the best / most significant improvement?

Rgds Steve.

[james_dmi]

Hi Steve,

Yes but remember that the new S series also have improved tweeter performance. And also no one yet will have listened to fully run in speakers form the new series. More to come I’m sure....

James

[Dutch in USA]

Hi Ron,

I have a policy to never listen to systems that a) I can’t afford or b) (as is now the case with discounted old 802) that I will never be allowed to bring into the flat. When I first took my girlfriend to listen to speakers she pointed out the 802,801 & 800 and said "Those are the ugliest things I have ever seen and we are not having those" although she did like the "snail" nautilus until she saw the price. I’m not sure I agree with her on the looks issue but I can see the point that if its a living room rather then a listing room you would always feel you had invited some modern day Daleks to dinner.

Hi James,
This comment makes me LOL. It is so recognisable :W When I went shopping for my S805's my wife gave similar feedback... Needless to say that a year later the 802's suddenly arrived on the doorstep. :bluezoned: This caused some havoc in the house, but one of the things I have always been very upfront about: "They will only get bigger". She is getting used to them now and secretly loves the sound... Doing some research I agree on the "Daleks" statement. It shows your heritage.
With the "Daleks" it is also finally clear to the HiFi barbarians in my circle that they do not have microphones on the top :banghead: Maybe I should have these people be exterminated by them 8)

[ti33er]

LOL, if you had any idea how many pesky hands I have to swat away from my "microphones" on top of my Nautili! I went on holiday last year and upon my return discovered grubby fingerprints all over my lovely tweeters - this ‘infidel’ had clearly tried to pick them up (I suspect it was one of our ex. flatmates barbarian friends! GRRRR, luckily there was no damage to them)

[james_dmi]

Hi James,
With the "Daleks" it is also finally clear to the HiFi barbarians in my circle that they do not have microphones on the top :banghead: Maybe I should have these people be exterminated by them 8)

Ah now there is nothing in the B&W specification on extermination. What sort of amp do you need to drive them with for that action?

Maybe this amp? Music Fidelity KWP (3MB)

[james_dmi]

The new series "Microphones" are a lot more wobbly then before due to the new decoupling compound they are using. This will only encourage them! Exterminate them all!!!

[Krobar]

I had a quick listen to a pair of the new 800Ds being fed by an all Classe setup at Tottenham Court. The sound was excellent, also the Classe monoblocks were equally as impressive looking as the 800Ds. I also had a listen to the 804Ss on a Naim setup in a listening room and surprisingly was even more impressed.

The dealer said they'd got the new range in for demo a couple of weeks back, when I asked about the 801D, the dealer explained that their opinion of the old 801 was that it was better suited to recording studios than home use and it was probably the speaker they sold least of in the range. Unsurprisingly they didnt have an 801D on show.

[RobP]

I had a chance to listen to the 802d's today and I have to say that I really wasnt impressed, I was really expecting more. The voices were great but the bass was really thin and the soundstage was really narrow. I really hope that they were not setup correctly, beacause for the price it would be a great disapointment. I know this may sound strange but I liked the sound of my N805's with the ASW850 better. ...Weird????

[sikoniko]

I went by my dealer today. forgot to pick up the demo disk, but they had gotten some 804s's and 805s's. The rest of the order was on back-order (802d, 803d, htm2).

They werent going to open them until later in the week because they wanted to clean up their showroom and dedicate space for them.

While I was there I made the mistake of listening to the 802N (original nautilus series). That was a mistake, I felt very dissapointed in my sound when I got home to my 804N's.

[anders0x]

805S <-> Old N805 <-> Old 805 Signature

Hi,

has anyone actually compared the new 805S vs the old ones (N805 and 805 Signature)?

I emailed B&W and asked whether all the 805 Signature improvements are in the new 805S, and their clear response was that in their opinion "the 805S is an improvement over 805 Signature".

Has anyone had a chance to compare the the models by listening audition?

/ Anders

[ti33er]

Hi anders0x

I have compared the N805/Sig805/805S and in my opinion the Sig805 is still the best speaker out of those - to be fair my listening to the new 805Ss haven't been on units that are not run in - I find the 805S tweeter a little ‘etchy’ by comparison, but the sound on the Sig805's still seems (to me, my GF and Dealer) to be more fluid overall (this could be the “run in” syndrome, but I am not all that convinced the sound will change all that much? – I could be wrong, time will tell!)

Anyway the 805S seem to be more aggressive? They are better than the N805 no doubt about that, but not by miles IMO?

[gostan]

I went by my dealer today. forgot to pick up the demo disk, but they had gotten some 804s's and 805s's. The rest of the order was on back-order (802d, 803d, htm2).

They werent going to open them until later in the week because they wanted to clean up their showroom and dedicate space for them.

While I was there I made the mistake of listening to the 802N (original nautilus series). That was a mistake, I felt very dissapointed in my sound when I got home to my 804N's.

Dan:
Take it easy and enjoy your 804N's. You have to get moved first and re-settled before you can even consider salivating over the 802's. Although some day I am sure that the 802's (old or new series) will be in both of our stables. However, we will both have to wait for that day. Meanwhile, after all of the initial hoopla over the new S and D series, I really am enjoying listening to my 803's. You should also do the same with your 804's. However, have you considered renting your place out for the SuperBowl. I understand hotels and housing are at a real shortage for the Superbowl. Then you could take the rental income and apply it to and complete your upgrade now!
Stan

[perato]

anders0x,

I briefly listened to the 805S. I have never listened to the N805 or Sig805 but I have the 705. IMO 805S is only slightly better than the 705. I only listened for a few minutes using one song (Safri Duo's Baya Baya) but I do not think there is as much difference in sound quality between the 705 and 805 as there is between the 602 and the 705.

[EAmin]

What about HT? - D vs. S?

Could I get you guys' thoughts about what kinda differences I would expect between the D series and the S series with HT? I'm interested in possibly upgrading my 703s and HTM7 to the 803D/HTM2D or 803S/HTM3S. If the system was only dedicated to watching TV and movies, is it worth it for me to upgrade? Will I hear a significant difference between the D vs. S? What do you guys think?

I saw a similar post on this thread, but thought I'd ask for more info.

[sikoniko]

without having heard either, I think it is safe to say that most likely you will still have advantages w/ the D series over the S, if compared w/ the same equipment and source material. The 803d's should be fuller with that third driver and the highs more accurate w/ the diamond tweeter. It may very w/ source material though on how much you notice. if you feed it crap, it will still sound like crap.

[Jeff]

EAmin

"Significant difference".... It's quite an upgrade going from the 703's to the 803D's. IMO the significant difference would come in using the HTM2D center channel. There are significant improvement when compared to your matching 700 series center speaker. As you know, HT uses the center channel for much of it's information.

Consider upgrading your center channel to the HTM3S. You'll be matching the FST midrange of your 703's. It should integrate your front sound stage with greater uniformity. You can always upgrade you Front R/L later.

[tmt]

the 802D kicks ass!

A few hours ago I strolled into the local hifi store in Brussels for some cables. They had the new 802D in demo and when the manager asked if I would like to listen to it I didn't have to think twice.

Setup:
802D
some pre-amp I have never seen in my life (sorry)
marantz cd player
2 CAM-350 monoblocks
monster cable

he put on some classical music to get started. Very nice.
Then he put in a jazz cd and put on a track that had 2 contrabasses playing. Unbelievably real! You could hear everything these instruments were producing. There was a guy in the store that plays the contrabas and he couldn't believe his ears.
I asked the manager what he would choose when he could have an old N800 or a new 802D. He just smiled and pointed to the 802. (the store has the old N800 on sale for $11.000 so that's the same price as a new 802D)
He also put on a jazz cd with a woman singing. As lifelike as the contrabasses.


now I need to block this experience from my memory and go out and buy these second hand 802s

[Mark_C.]

[QUOTE=tmt]...and when the manager asked if I would like to listen to it I didn't have to think twice.

I had the same experience but a different reaction. I was at my regular B&W dealer the other day and they had just the day previously carted out the D models they had received. In one room they had the 803Ds, the HTM2D center, an 850 sub and incredible Classe processing and amplification. In the other room, 802Ds with McIntosh monblocks (500W each) and McIntosh preamp. The salesman asked if I would like to listen to either. "No, thanks.'' I said. He was surprised. Why not? Because I'll feel inadequate when I go home to my 804s!

[tmt]

Mark_C, that's also my philosophy.
When I was looking at the nautilus range a few years ago I never listened to the 802 because the 803 were all I could afford at the time. I would have gone home crying. (in the end I didn't buy anything)

But times have changed and a pair of brand new 802s are right now standing in my living room waiting to be unpacked! (at 67% of listprice )
finally one of the dreams has come true

[Recruit]

I am going to upgrade my 805's to the S805's because they are a little more revealing, and I want all my tweeters to compliment each other when I get 804’s/HTM3 eventually.

Hi,
I am new to this forum and will hopefully soon be the owner of the new 805S with a HTM4S to go with them

ti33er - Do you feel that there is a big difference in terms of quality to the old 805's to the new ones and would you say they are significantly better? i know you have found them more revealing but could you add anything else?

Thanks in Advance

John

[Dutch in USA]

Setup:
802D
some pre-amp I have never seen in my life (sorry)
marantz cd player
2 CAM-350 monoblocks
monster cable

now I need to block this experience from my memory and go out and buy these second hand 802s

Hi tmt,

The above statement is too focussed on the speakers. The pre amp has impact and the Marantz cd player will have a huge impact on what you hear coming out of the D's. It is the crap in crap out theory, or the positive version of course. Match the same set up with the N802's and then give a judgement.
I have experienced myself that "just" changing the cd player around can be earth shattering or..
I have listened to 802's in comparison with Sig805 (which I owned at the time) in a set up with the Classe Delta series where I told the salesman :wtf: I would not even consider the 805's sounding like they did, let alone upgrade to the 802's.

For the next listening session we re-adjusted the layout in the room (moved it 45 degrees) and the sound improved tremendously. I also had my "own" components set up: Sony SACD 9000ES (=sonically equal to the 777ES) "old" classe pre and power amp. I bought the 802's after that positive experience, but my first impression was devastating. :blah: anyway...

Moral of the story: sound is not only subjective, there are multiple components that have a huge impact on it where we tend to focus on 1 experience.
Moral 2: The 802's :smackbutt: regardless of tnkotb

[tmt]

Dutch in USA,

I know that (I've also heard good speakers driven by not-so-good components, and the bloody salesman kept turning the volume up. My ears! :M )

I was in the shop looking for some cables, it was not a critical listen so I didn't pay attention to all the components (and I'm not buying the 802D anyway)

the cd player was not a recent one. It's fairly thick (for a cd player) and has a round analogue meter in the middle.

[DanR]

You are not missing as much as you think with the N802's.

[Dutch in USA]

Dutch in USA,

I know that (I've also heard good speakers driven by not-so-good components, and the bloody salesman kept turning the volume up. My ears! :M )

Ouch! That is the old "if it goes loud it must be good" tactics..

the cd player was not a recent one. It's fairly thick (for a cd player) and has a round analogue meter in the middle.

Mhh. The only one I can think of is the SA-1. It is not that recent (release date 2000), it was their 1st SACD player at $6000 msrp. Not a machine to push aside lightly...at 40lbs

[jonesy805]

N805 Vs. 805(S)

Hey Recruit. I am new to the site as well. I have the same problem as you do. I have owned a pair of N805's for about a year and a half and I actually love them. I mean really, whats not to love.

The new 805(S) arrived at my local dealer last week and I have been listening to them every day after work for the last 6 days for one hour each session. I absolutely love them. After listening to the new 805's at my dealer I listen for at least another hour at home with my current N805's. My opinions are as follows:

- The new 805(S) are not miles better than the old N805 but they have a more life like sound. I noticed that the bottom end is a little more tune full but the extention is roughly the same. I was listenting to some big bass jazz tracks and I notice that the bass had a little more body on the new 805(S)version. This could be attributed to the new crossover and stiffer box. The tweeter is a little faster and sounds more open. Less treble harshness is also apparent. Not to say that the old N805 is harsh. The source components that I was using at my dealer was the new Classe CDP100 and the CAP 2100.
They are a great match for the B&W's. I guess that's why B&W bought Classe. I was fortunate that the dealer had a pair of the old N805's in the same listening room so I could compare them back to back every day for my hour long listening sessions.

When I go home after leaving the dealer it seems that my old N805's sound better every time. I never once felt that I would be missing out if I didn't decide to upgrade.

After pondering on the the differences I have decided to give the New 805(S) a try. So I will be trading in my old pair. I hope I don't regret it. I still love the original N805.

My advise to anyone out there thinking about upgrading. If you can get a used pair for $1000 less than a new pair of $3500 805(S), I would suggest that route instead of upgrading. Spend the money you save on a good power cord for your source components. Hope this helps you in your decision.

My components are:
Arcam CD 23T
Arcam A22
Audioquest Python Cables.