New B&W Nautilus Range

[Aussie Geoff]

Hi,

Thanks Rags

Here's the direct link B&W 800 Series which has full details on all models.

And a hidden link to the Brochure for the new range

And an interesting (if large) white paper in their technology section 800D White paper which uses the new 800D model to discuss all the new technology.

They seem to have both the "Nautilis 800" (the old models) and the "800 Series" up at once as two separate product ranges. Probably temporary until their distributors all have the new rage...

Geoff

[Rags]

The new 803S seems to weigh 90lbs each which sound ridiculously more than the old model and virtually the same as the 803D model. Does anyone know why the weight has increased so much ?

[Aussie Geoff]

Rags,

All the new range are heavier even the 805S is heaver than the old Signature 805. I understand this is a combination of bigger magnets and more bracing in the matrix cabinets. So the 803S at 40 Kg is 10Kg more than the older 803. However the 803D is a new model compared to the old 803S. It is taller, wider, deeper, has an extra bass driver and then the new 800 series weight increase - hence I too would have expected a bigger increase for the 803S to 803D than the 5 Kg (45Kg to 40 Kg)! B&W's press release does particularly go on about the extra bracing in the 803S though...

Still there are the new 802D at 80 Kg! (also up 10 Kg from the old 802) :banana:

Geoff

[ti33er]

Seen them, heard them...not got the t-shirt!

My colleague and I dashed down to our B&W Dealer at lunch time, and lo ‘n behold there were the shining new beautiful beasties, standing ever so proud, glinting under the halogen lights in the foyer of the shop (I felt just short of an org*sm)!

First impressions...they are dazzling, and there are in fact a few ‘noticeable’ cosmetic changes - the new S tweeters have a slight glittery satin finish to them, and all of the dust covers are rounded at the edges (the old covers are abruptly angled off) – the dust covers also stand about 3mm away from the frame it seems, not a flat connection like the older 800’s (and of course all of the tweeters seem to be mounted slightly more forward, but we already knew that!).

How did they sound!!!? …well the Diamond 800’s were already on display (audibly I mean) as we walked in…connected to Classe Omega mono’s, they seemed very similar to the Prestige 800’s which were standing alongside them in their now disconnected state – they are identical visually (besides the tiger’s eye, these are timber veneer of course), and sound-wise (of course one would need to spend some serious time with them to notice the real differences) I couldn’t tell the difference? They certainly weren’t any ‘worse’ sounding than the Prestige 800’s!

Next we entered the room with the new 802D’s / HTM2D / SCM’s for rears and ASW825 (Home theatre setup of course, and all in cherry veneer, my favourite) and this was blo*dy marvellous …these bad boys were being driven by Arcam electronics, and they sounded awesome, it is hard to tell in a HT setup how much better the new speakers are, but there was NOTHING to complain about – my colleague and I found it very hard to leave that room, but time was not on our side so we had to get moving…oh, that HTM2 is enormous, it is almost like an 803 on it’s side FYI!

The real reason I went in was to listen to the S805’s …my comments here are very critical (as this is what I intend on purchasing) but in a nutshell we weren’t all that impressed!? …my colleague and I spent a good 20 minutes in the room with the 805’s, trying different CDs like Led Zeppelin and Peter Gabriel, repositioning the speakers etc. but in the end, still felt a bit disappointed with these little guys?

The S805’s seemed a little bright, boxy and laid back, no matter what music we threw at them…now, there could be a few reasons as to why this was:

Firstly, they probably require a little running in; secondly the electronics were ‘Exposure’ and I have little or no experience with these; thirdly it could be the room that they were in; and fourthly I had previously been listening to the top of the line models!

I will be interested to hear what others say about the new S805’s, ...I will still probably be upgrading (because I like to keep with the times), but I want to hear the new 804’s before I ‘buy’ new 805’s.

[kate]

:T Thanks ti33er for posting about the new speakers.
Lovely to have an objective music lover talking about his experiences.
Thanks for taking the trouble.
A pitty about the new 805's though. It would be to be good to be true for a small speaker to get everything right though.

This is especially unfortunate for all us dutchies :roll: because our livingrooms are often small.

I hope others follow your example

[ti33er]

hehe Kate, not all is lost! The Signature 805's are great speakers and I had a good experience with them less than a month ago...it could just be the setup that we had today with the new 805's!?

The electronics I was not familiar with (Exposure?) and the room was quite narrow, maybe 3m wide x 4m length, with solid painted walls which can cause nasty reflections + sound wave cancellation? ...the main thing we found a problem with was the treble sounding quite edgy and this could be the electronics and the fact that they are not broken in (they had only been in action for half a day?) - we both left that room with a touch of tinnitus (ringing in the ears) because we were adjusting volume up and down to try and compensate for what we thought was lacking...I suppose that is what left me walking back to work grumbling as well?

I wait for others to comment, I assume more dealerships will be getting the new stock shortly!

[Twincam]

Thanks for the post, interesting. All Nautilus speakers is a bit bright before they have been 'run in ' correctly.. (well...some people think they are too bright even after..).

Cheers

TC

[Rags]

I am beginning to think ordering the 803S model wasnt a good idea. Should I have forked out the extra $$$ for the 803D...........

[Jeff]

Rags, don't have second thought on your soon to arrive 805's. It appears a great book shelf speaker is what you where looking for. Don't convince yourself overwise. It will be what you expected it to be. Once broke in, it will sing. :T

Considering a jump to the 803D's is quite a step up. I think many of us could get tearied eyed on those possibilities. :cry:

Chin up Rags, you'll be a happy camper when the 805's arrive! :B

[krishd]

Jeff ....

Rags ordered 803S not the 805S. :P

[Jeff]

Oops! It must have been the Friday night long islands ice tea's. 8x)

[Rags]

Yup - 803S it is. To get the diamonds would have cost me another $4000 and I just got stingy ! I am however going to use the saved cash to upgrade my electronics - something I couldnt have even considered if I went with the diamonds.

I ordered the 803S, HTM3 and ASW875. The subwoofer isnt out yet (and there is no relaese date either) so my dealer is loaning me an 825 as an interim measure.

[ti33er]

Hi Rags

If you went for the 803D's you would probably need to get the HTM2D as well ...the 803D’s/HTM2D are huge btw, not that they are ugly behemoths, I think they are marvellous to look at (and would take them home in an instant if my wallet didn’t have fruit flies flitting out of it), but they are substantially bigger – when you see these with your own eyes you will know what I am talking about…I was looking for the 804’s in the shop and I walked right passed them, simply because they were so tiny compared to the 803’s (which nearly made them unrecognisable?)

I do think that there is something to this Diamond tweeter though. Our dealer was playing a strange artistic percussion piece with a lot of symbols and high end detail in it, and it was quite natural sounding, not sharp like the S805’s tweeter came across at the time? …I have been thinking a lot about the new S805’s (lying awake last night) and I do think that it was that room and the electronics (Exposure, they reminded me of my ex. Rotel 1075 that I was so unhappy with, on my current 805’s), also the break in should soften things up a touch!?

Anyway, I am surprised that you haven’t demoed you new speakers against the Diamonds, go back to your dealer and ask this of him…you will be handing over a lot of your hard earned money; it is your statutory right as a consumer!

[Rags]

Rags,

All the new range are heavier even the 805S is heaver than the old Signature 805. I understand this is a combination of bigger magnets and more bracing in the matrix cabinets. So the 803S at 40 Kg is 10Kg more than the older 803. However the 803D is a new model compared to the old 803S. It is taller, wider, deeper, has an extra bass driver and then the new 800 series weight increase - hence I too would have expected a bigger increase for the 803S to 803D than the 5 Kg (45Kg to 40 Kg)! B&W's press release does particularly go on about the extra bracing in the 803S though...

Still there are the new 802D at 80 Kg! (also up 10 Kg from the old 802) :banana:

Geoff

Thanks Geoff.

I have been reading a bot more on the specs. The 803S model seems to have gone up in weight disproportionately from the 803 model (from 30Kg to 41Kg - thats a 37% increase!!!). Nothing else seems to have gone up in weight nearly as much as the 803 model.

[Twincam]

Rags,

your setup is going to be (sound) fantasic, enjoy!

[Rags]

Hi Rags

If you went for the 803D's you would probably need to get the HTM2D as well ...the 803D’s/HTM2D are huge btw, not that they are ugly behemoths, I think they are marvellous to look at (and would take them home in an instant if my wallet didn’t have fruit flies flitting out of it), but they are substantially bigger – when you see these with your own eyes you will know what I am talking about…I was looking for the 804’s in the shop and I walked right passed them, simply because they were so tiny compared to the 803’s (which nearly made them unrecognisable?)

I do think that there is something to this Diamond tweeter though. Our dealer was playing a strange artistic percussion piece with a lot of symbols and high end detail in it, and it was quite natural sounding, not sharp like the S805’s tweeter came across at the time? …I have been thinking a lot about the new S805’s (lying awake last night) and I do think that it was that room and the electronics (Exposure, they reminded me of my ex. Rotel 1075 that I was so unhappy with, on my current 805’s), also the break in should soften things up a touch!?

Anyway, I am surprised that you haven’t demoed you new speakers against the Diamonds, go back to your dealer and ask this of him…you will be handing over a lot of your hard earned money; it is your statutory right as a consumer!

Good advice - I have now got a demo organised - the dealer is busy breaking them in. I will firstly listen to the 803D and HTM2D connected up to a Meridian G98 DVD transport, G68 processor and an Parasound A51 poweramp and then swich the speakers over to the normal 803's. The dealer did say though that the benefits of the diamond tweeter will only become apparent in stereo.

[ti33er]

Hey Rags

Awesome, and I am most envious of whatever you get of course! ...it is a shame but I can't afford to have anything larger than possibly 804's, firstly because I am renting in a London apartment and need to buy a house, and secondly moving kit is intense seeing as I will need a hand with anything larger...when we get our own place I am going to go the whole hog...and can't wait! hehe

[jlee]

Is it just me, or does anybody else feel some of the new Nautilus line is way overpriced?

I think $500 for the 803S is fair... only 10% more than the 803 and you get all the hidden improvements plus 25 lbs more of rigidity in the cabinet.

For the 804S, the increase is 14%, which is still fair I guess...

For the 805S, the increase is 25%, which is a bit excessive... B&W has just added $500 to each S speaker model to keep it simple, but I think in this case, they should have used a % increase... kept it at around 10-15%... they could have made the 805S $2200 or $2250... even $2300 would be ok. The 804S could have been $3900 just to keep it under $4000.

Now, for the 802D... $12000? That is $4000 more than the old 802? That is more than the old 801 ($11000). From what I've read, you're getting all the little improvements that the other speakers get... plus diamond tweeter... now, the 802 was more expensive to begin with and all the little improvements done to this speaker would probably be more expensive as well compared to the 803, 805, etc. (drivers, cabinet, crossover, etc.)... so let's say 10% more... about $8800... let's just say $9000 even... that leaves $3000 for JUST the diamond tweeter upgrade? What gives?

Personally, I'm not going to upgrade just yet... I'm going to demo these and really see if they are worth it... my eye is on the 803S... I think that is the best value among the bunch... considering it's only 10% more for all the improvements. I currently have 804, HTM1, and SCM1.

The new HTM3 is $500 more... Again, I think it should be more like $2200-$2300... I can see myself upgrading to the HTM3 if I upgrade to the 803S... but HTM2D and above seems way overpriced.

Now the SCMS... I think it has actually gotten WORSE than the SCM1 in some ways... first, it has lost 1dB of sensitivity (probably from putting the tweeter back in the box). Next, the new driver placement... I think B&W realized that because these were usually put on the rear walls higher up than ear level, the tweeter closer to the ear will produce better sound (hence the tweeter below the woofer configuration)... with this configuration, they could not have the separate nautilus tube and place the tweeter outside the box for better isolation and more open sound... so they had to put it back in the box... I personally realized the compromise of the SCM1 driver alignment immediately and that is why mine are placed upside down (similar to the Abbey Road Studios placement of 5 HTM1's upside down from the ceiling)... not too many people are willing to go through the trouble of doing what I did... so B&W had to appeal to the masses... but I won't be trading my SCM1's for the SCMS any time soon... if anything, I will probably try to get used HTM1's and use them as surrounds.

I also noticed the 804S gained 1 dB of sensitivity (89 db up to 90 db) which is good, but the 802D, 801D, and 800D all lose 1 dB (91 db back to 90 db). I guess B&W wanted to standardize the sensitivities for easier matching of the center speakers... all the speakers are either 88 or 90 now.

That's it for my rant (for now) ;-).

[Rags]

I also feel that some of the price rises on the surface at least are a bit unjustified - especially for the diamond models. A 50% rise for the 802D is frankly ridiculous (it better have a solitaire in each of those tweeters ) . Some of the rises in the US are more in percentage terms than in the UK. This is B&W's way of clawing back on the exchange rate at the moment. For example the 802D has risen by only (!!) 33% here.

Hopefully the diamond models will justify themselves as we know more but I am more than likely going to go for the 803S as it hasnt gone up that much and they definately appear to have done something special to it over and above the other models. A 37% increase in weight through improved rigidity is frankly ridiculous ! The old model must have been made out of cardboard ! My dealer is insisting that the diamond model benefits will only be noticeable on stereo (music) reproduction and that for movies the benefits will not be very apparent. I am going to check em out anyway.

[Stevebez]

802D's seen heard and believed.

Well dragged the wife out to find a store who had any of the new 800's on show and found one at my first attempt on Tottenham Court Road.

The new 800D's were on display and playing very softly on some Classe's Omega's in the entrance. I really wanted to test out the 803D's, but although they were there in the flesh they were not hooked up but a set of 802D's were.

Hooked up to Arcam FMJ series electronics and playing DVD, I promptly changed this for a CD, much to the amusement of the shop assistant who could not believe I wanted to listen to a CD on a DVD player.

On "test" was 802D's, HTM2D centre & 825 sub.

I immediately went for stereo mode and sat back. I was very curious to see if the speaker had any artefacts of an over zealous tweeter mid or bass - but to sum up it is without doubt the best sounding speaker I have heard. How could an 800 be better ??? How this compares to previous models I cannot say, but I have heard some good kit and believe I have a very critical ear.

What struck me was the presence of so much detail without it being obvious. Very difficult to expalin ... the overall sound had such a completeness and effortless detail about it I really was quite surprised. We listened for some time neither of us getting fatigued at all. Superb bass detail without it invading the room, in fact I had to check if the sub was on the bass was so sharp, so the assiastant had to veriyfy this via the Arcam set-up if the sub was on or not and it was not - so detailed and tight was the low end!

If the 803D's are anywhere as good I would have given him a cheque there and then ... I will have to wait until they are on demo to check those out.

I have a new desire ... upgraditis has struck.

Rgds Steve.

[hillen]

It is strange to notice that the harmonic distortion of the 802D is actually LOWER than of the 800 D despite the smaller drivers. The 2nd and 3rd harmonic distortion @ 90 db @ 1 mtr. of the 800D = 1% 45 Hz - 100 KHz ( the 802D: the same applies for 40 Hz - 100KHz ).
The same applies for the 3rd harmonics ( 800 D: 0.5 % 80 Hz - 100 KHz ; 802D: 0.5 % @ 70 - 100KHz ) Bram Hillen

[tmt]

803D hmmm

This Saturday I went to a dealer to listen to the 803Ds.
These things are really HUGE. they dwarfed the old 802s that were standing besides them.

I could compare the new 803D to the old 802, unfortunately they were not connected to the same equipment.
The 803Ds were driven by a clasé CA201 amp, a Thule PR350B pre-amp and a marantz sacd/dvd player.
The 802s were on the new Rotel RSP-1098 pre-amp and RMB1075 amp, with a rotel dvd player.
For surround listening an "old" HTM1 and 804s were driven by a Thule PA350.

They both sounded very good, but very different. It was like listening to speakers of different brands.
I wasn't instantly blown away by the sound the new nautilus offered. They sounded a tiny bit like speakers.
Of cource the 803Ds are only in use for half a week so they are most likely not entirely broken in yet.
The highs to mid-ends on the 803Ds do sound incredible detailed and lifelike, in comparison the 802 sounds a bit muffled.
This only shows how good the new diamond tweater and other refinements really are!
In SACD surround mode the differences between the HTM1 and the 803Ds are clearly audible. The HTM is very good, but the 803Ds are just that better.
The 802s low-end is still a LOT better, it goes into subwoofer levels (you can feel the punch in your stomach) but when it's going really low you can hear the wind blowing through the flowport at the bottom.

In my opinion the full potential of the new diamond tweeter can only be used when playing SACD or 24/96 DTS sources, which go higher than the 20kHz cutoff that cd offers. Using ordinairy cds is like driving a ferrari only in first gear.

Many people are hoping that the 803D will be the new 802 (pricewise).
But I doubt if they will ever reach the low end of the old 802.
(Therefore it's really tempting to buy a pair of demo 802s, which would cost me the same as the new 803D)

The dealer mentioned that the new 802D will be the best speaker price/performance-wise of the new range.
"It's already better than the old 800" he said , which in his eyes makes it a super bargain, considering it costs 12.000 compared to 18.000 for the old 800.
I admit he is a B&W adept so he could be a bit biased
But he knows what he's talkin about. A few months ago was able to sneak in the test laboratory in Belgium (which normally is totally off-limits) where all new nautilus models get there final tweaking and approval by the Belgian importer before being released.

In the end considering the price they cost I'm not entirely convinced yet. More testing required...

[Twincam]

Well, to connect a pair of 802's to a RMB-1075 will for sure not bring out the best in them...

Regards,

TC

[DanR]

I would take the old 802's and run. Still a better speaker than the 803D. And yes, without SACD, the higher frequency ranges are void. Bass is far better than the 803D's. Do do yourself a favor though and get an amp with more punch than the 1075. An RB-1090 is a great combo. The 802's also look much nicer- the new 803D's are tall and skinny and very Olive Oil-ish.

[jlee]

It is strange to notice that the harmonic distortion of the 802D is actually LOWER than of the 800 D despite the smaller drivers. The 2nd and 3rd harmonic distortion @ 90 db @ 1 mtr. of the 800D = 1% 45 Hz - 100 KHz ( the 802D: the same applies for 40 Hz - 100KHz ).
The same applies for the 3rd harmonics ( 800 D: 0.5 % 80 Hz - 100 KHz ; 802D: 0.5 % @ 70 - 100KHz ) Bram Hillen

--------------------------------------
I saw that too and I'm pretty sure it's a typo... if you look at the past specs for the old 800 compared to 801 and 802... there was a progression of lower distortion as you went from 802 to 800... but the 801 was always king when it came to bass extension and bass distortion (as well it should with the 1 15" bass driver as opposed to 2 10")... with all the other speakers having progressively less distortion as you go from 805 to 804 to 803 to 802... logic would dictate that the higher dist. specs for the 800 is a typo that will eventually be fixed.

[jlee]

>The 803Ds were driven by a clasé CA201 amp, a Thule PR350B pre-amp and a marantz sacd/dvd player.
The 802s were on the new Rotel RSP-1098 pre-amp and RMB1075 amp, with a rotel dvd player.
The highs to mid-ends on the 803Ds do sound incredible detailed and lifelike, in comparison the 802 sounds a bit muffled.
This only shows how good the new diamond tweater and other refinements really are!
-----------------------------
1098 and 1075 to the 802??? The 1075 alone will be responsible for the 802 sounding muffled... you cannot compare the 802 and 803D when they are connected to vastly different gear!

>feel the punch in your stomach) but when it's going really low you can hear the wind blowing through the flowport at the bottom.

If you can hear the wind blowing through the flowport, that is not good... because that is not part of the original signal... rather that blowing noise is coloring the sound.

[Rags]

This Saturday I went to a dealer to listen to the 803Ds.
These things are really HUGE. they dwarfed the old 802s that were standing besides them.

I am not sure why you would found the 803D to dwarf the old 802 ? Given the dimensions on B&W's website your comment doesn’t make sense -

Old 802 - (H) 1106, (W) 385, (D) 548
802D - (H) 1135, (W) 368, (D) 563
803D - (H) 1164, (W) 306, (D) 457

The 803D is taller than the old 802's but is significantly smaller in the other dimensions. In crude volume terms the old 802's are 43% more than the new 803D.

And to run Nautilus 802's off a Rotel 1075 is frankly a tragedy !

[Stevebez]

RB1080 and 803D's

Hi Guys so what you think... of the Rotel RB1080 and 803D's ? Sounds like may need an 825 to complement the 803D's?

Rgds Steve.

[weijst]

Why is it I don't hear a lot of people eagerly awaiting the new 804S? Am I the only one who thinks it will be great to finally be able to get a speaker with Signature 805 mids / highs but with an increased bass performance due to the larger cabinet? It's sort of like getting a 'Signature 804' for a more attractrive price!

[ti33er]

Hey weijst

I just had a good listen to the new S804's, and compared them to the new S805's (twice over in both audition rooms, just to be sure!)

I was listening to "Dire Straits - Brother in arms" CD, and the new 804's compared to the new S805's are a bit more open in the mid-range, with a tad more punch in the bass...these are the only apparent differences I could notice so far between these 2 new models

FYI, I found the older 804's a bit laid back, but the new 804's I didn't find this,
so, if you want my opinion they are better than the old 804's overall, BUT I still have a problem with the new tweeters being a little bright - my current 805's don't have that edgy zizz to them, but after a while auditioning I did get a little more used to the tweeters, and believe that they should soften up in time.

I am going to upgrade my 805's to the S805's because they are a little more revealing, and I want all my tweeters to compliment each other when I get 804’s/HTM3 eventually.

Cheers, Paul

[rballister]

As I've been waiting with baited breath for the new 803Ds, the posts so far are a bit disappointing (bass inferior to the old 802s). The hype was they were in all ways superior to the old 802s and more power efficient to boot. Dan R., have you acutally heard the 803Ds? (no dealers in NYC have them yet). If anyone else has a take on the bass of the 803Ds compared to the old 802s I'd be very interested in hearing it.

[ti33er]

Hey rballister

I wouldn't get too despondent, personally I don't believe that the old 802's are much superior (if at all) to the 803D’s when it comes to bass response, especially if B&W are making a public statement proclaiming that it is ‘even better’ - those 803D's have an enormous cabinet, and that new Rohacell technology packs a punch....the bass on all the models I have listened to so far has been very tight IMO, and may even become a touch tighter with a little bit of running in!? The added bonus is that Diamond tweeter and Prestige FST unit, and that should make it a more revealing, fluid and accurate speaker overall…I guess you will need to asses this yourself, but hang in there, there is still hope!

PS. To be totally honest I haven’t actually listened to the 803D’s yet, but I have the S805’s, S804’s, 802D’s and 800D’s (+ all the respective centres except HTM1) and those Diamond tweeters are fantastic – I still find the S tweeters a little sharp, but I do also have quite sensitive high frequency hearing i.e. I can hear a TV’s hiss when it is on in a room and this drives me batty!

[b&Wman]

I'm really interested in the new 803S. Has anyone heard these yet? What are your thoughs? How do they compare to the 804S and the older 803? I currently have the CDM 1NT that I'm eagerly awaiting to replace.

[sikoniko]

I stopped in my dealer today and they said B&W has not shipped the new speakers to any dealers in the US and dont expect to until the end of the month.

Also, they said that they have been having issues with the new diamond tweeters. It appears that they are very fragile, and shatter upon touch. Some dealers have already damaged theirs and have had to ask for replacements. Due to the price, B&W is not replacing them as part of the warrantee. Dealers will receive some sort of cover that is possibly permanently attached to protect the tweeters from touchy fingers.

[Rags]

Surely the tweeters must have some sort of cover/grill on them ?

If thats the case I might just stick with the 803S - dont really fancy a $2000 tweeter repair job !

[DrBoom]

I don't see how they can get away with refusing warranty on the tweeters.
What do you buy a new speaker for then ?
Might as well wait a few months and get one used.
If company comes over with littly children, they better bring their checkbook
Yes there is a grill over the tweeters, but probably removable like with the nautilus series.
And what if the tweeter gets damaged in another way, like factory error or something ?

[Rags]

Well if like the old series they use grills how on earth can you shatter them (unless of course you remove the grills) ?

The other thing is if you blow a tweeter which can happen quite easily how much would on of these cost to replace ? Do B&W dont cover blown tweeters under warranty ? Thats a scary thought - one big DTS switching pop and bang goes a few $k.

[Aussie Geoff]

Diamond Tweeter Covers

Hi,

Looking at page 11 of the brochure (on the B&W Website) which shows the construction of the diamond tweeter - they clearly have grills - though they look very fine so I could imagine a determined poke would get through them!

Geoff

[DanR]

Hey rballister,
Yes I have heard the 803D's as well as the 804S and 802D. Since I own a pair of N802's I am comfortable making the comarison. In terms of volume, the N802's are still a much larger cabinet(do the math) and have what I feel is more slam in the bass region. Specifications aside, they just seem to have more presence in the bottom end. As far as the Rohacell material being better at reproducing bass, it is simply not true. The material was selected by B&W for characteristics in its cone response that lent itself to their new simplified crossover design. And even B&W will tell you, design of the crossover is still a largely unknown and inexact science regardless how exotic and expensive the materials used. Listening is still the only real but subjective way to judge. To bottom line it, N802's can be had now for under $7k USD and around $5k for a well cared for used pair. To spend $8k on the 803D's in my opinion is foolish. I still firmly believe the N802 is an all-around better speaker and costs less... no brainer. And I don't say this because I own the 802's. I am far from rich, but I am well set and could easily drop $$$ on the new 802D's but I don't feel the new series is worth the extra money. I am beginning to feel like B&W is moving quickly into the realm of extravagance. We are paying through the nose for their new plants and testing toys. Keep this in mind as well. As B&W prices go through the roof, there are some phenomenal companies out there doing what B&W did 10 years ago and are making superb speakers without all the hype and R&D and price. Kind of like Lexus used to be the smart alternative to BMW and Mercedes- and now they are just as expensive. As consumers, most people are responsible for this. Some people just have to have the latest and greatest without any real thought to the value, merely its perception. Just look at the hype here on these pages. People going bonkers over speakers they haven't even heard yet! Why?? Because B&W says they're so good? What on earth do we expect them to say- that they are only a marginally better product? That the pursuit of perfection will only yield smaller and smaller results over time? This isn't like computers where the price keeps falling. Stereo gear just keeps going up and up! Companies nowadays feed off of consumer lust and ignorance. How good does sound have to get before people simply stop tinkering with their setups and enjoy the music? Do yourself and your wallet a favor and buy a pair of discounted 802's and you will love them!!!

[perato]

Good point DanR. Audioholics had a discussion about this issue of "good enough" a few months ago. See the following link:


http://forums.audioholics.com/forums...ead.php?t=2512

[sikoniko]

I would gladly buy a pair of 802's! Where do I sign up to sell a kidney?

Honestly, I have been contemplating this very thought recently myself. I'm 28 years old, and what I have is amazing. It isn't the best, but it is darn good. I would be exstatic if I could have a pair of 802's, but it just isnt the right time in my life to have that kind of money invested in a pair of speakers. I've made the conscious decision to completely skip the new generation all together and possibly the next one. If I was at a point where I could have 802's, I think I would be in a position to say I was set for life, not including pre/pro and dvd/next gen thing.

I was once a big PC gamer and I know the big thing is to get as many fps (frames per second) with the most detail and at the highest resolution. The magic number the eye can see is 30fps, but graphic card companies are squeezing 100+ at high resolutions to allow for more detail.

When it comes to audio, I don't believe it is the same. I believe a cello will always sound like a cello, and any other instrument for that matter will sound like it does naturally. While squeezing a little bit more out of the 20k range probably does add benefit, it is most likely marginal.

[Jeff]

Sikoniko, no kidding! Most of us mortals can only dream of spending 8kUS on some N802/803D speakers. However, as far the comparing the two, it will only be credible when:
1. the 803D are fully broken in.
2. the the same amp, source conponants, room, etc is used.

DanR made a lot of good points. We know the N802 are very reveiling speakers. I think some of the limitation of the N802's can be traced back to souce componants, cables, room accoustics, etc.

I found it funny regarding the comment of tmt. If the dealer was using the 1075 amp to power the N802's, I view it as an attempt to make the 802's sound a bit muddled so the 803D's could shine.

One thing I've found interesting, there's been no complaints about the Diamond tweeting sounding harsh, even when new. This is contrary to current Nautilus tweeters which take a while to break in.

[caleb]

Driving 802's

This thread is mainly for Dan Shultz, but would welcome any other input.

I notice Dan that you drive your 802's with a Bryston - not sure which model?

I am currently driving my front setup (802's + HTM1) with a TAG 250x3R.

There is something missing although I just can;t put my finger on what.

Our local dealer here recommends the Bryston 7B SST monos (one per channel) for the fronts and then use the redundant channels on the TAG to drive my 805 surrounds.

What are your comments?

In addition the price of these amps here equates to US$ 10,000 for the pair which seems a bit steep - any comments?

Regards
CALEB

[gunny]

Why is it I don't hear a lot of people eagerly awaiting the new 804S? Am I the only one who thinks it will be great to finally be able to get a speaker with Signature 805 mids / highs but with an increased bass performance due to the larger cabinet? It's sort of like getting a 'Signature 804' for a more attractrive price!

Yes - this is exactly what I've been waiting for. The only thing that kept me from buying the sig 805's months ago was anticipation of the rumored nautilus upgrades. I guessed correctly that the sig tweeter would be incorporated. The new woofer, magnet and extra internal bracing were just icing on the cake. I ordered the 804S, HTM3 and dipoles New Years Eve. Sight unseen with no audition, as I vividly remember how the Siggys stood the hair up on my arms. Can't wait.

[Stevebez]

It is quite interesting to note how peoples opinions fluctuate and are influenced by others.

The only way to determine if you like / want a set of speakers is to hear them for yourself and make your own decision. If the whole wolrd disagrees with you, but you are happy ... so what? You probably got them for a bargain to boot if that was the scenario. I don't mean to be ciritical here but merely observant in that all that goes on here is for people to gain some comfort that their decision was right because others liked them too. That may be OK, but to me it only goes as far as determining the units re-sale value - which depending on your means has a greater or lesser weight. In the end I trust my own ears!

I was blown away by the 802D's (not broken in much as well). I could not compare with the old series as they weren't on demo and had not heard them before. There may be "older" series speakers that perhaps perform as well ... for a little less in money ... but in terms of the package I am after they don't work - I need a small footprint in my meagre apartment.

I guess I am a sucker for wanting the latest technology ... if I am being fooled into believing that it leads to better sound ... so be it!

Rgds Steve.