Which one of these two A/V upgrades would you do if you where in my shoes?

[emig5m]

LG 50" PK540 to a newer LG60" Plasma (probably a 60PV450 or last years PK540/550 in 60")

Or...

Denon 3311ci (MultEQ XT) to a Denon 4311ci (XT32)


Viewing distance to TV is currently 9.5 feet unless I re-arrange the room.

I'm only using one sub in case of the Denon and XT32 (dual sub EQ) but there's more filtering power from top to bottom with XT32 over XT - would this be of any benefit to 2-channel music listening?

TV would be a lot cheaper for me to upgrade to plus I also have some possible buyers for my current TV to help offset the cost of upgrade. I have no one with immediate interest in my current Denon and it would cost a lot more to do the upgrade. Is the 50" to 60" a better value and a better improvement to my home audio/video system than Audyssey XT to XT32 is?

[Kal Rubinson]

I do not see a pressing need either way. Be guided by your gut.

[emig5m]

I do not see a pressing need either way. Be guided by your gut.

You would be happy with a 50" at viewing distance of 9.5feet? If I'm doing the math correct, "according" to THX specs the 60" would be far more ideal at my viewing distance? (screen size 60" divided by .84 = 71.42 inches = 5.9 feet?) Sounds a little too close for comfort, heh, going by that my 50" would be ideal at only 5 feet? :E Now say if I'm doing the THX math correctly, that would mean at my 9.5ft viewing distance I would need a 96" screen? Yikes! :E :E

I watch movies to escape reality and leave everyday life behind. I really like to be drawn into the movie and be immersed as much as possible with what my funds can allow. My sound system hits reference volume no problem in my smallish room and I sometimes feel that my sound outdoes the video side of my system as far as scale and performance. Especially once you include most movies with their wider than 16:9 ratio and black bars where you loose a good portion of your physical vertical display area.

My main concerns with the display purchase is the possibility of being distracted by more visual artifacts sticking out since the screen will be a lot larger than my current one and also the hit and miss with LG Plasmas with quality control and the current complaints in the AVS thread with the dimming and flickering problem and Sears' kinda crappy return policy - only 14 day and 15% restocking fee. Sam's club was 90 day full refund no questions asked but they don't have the display I'm looking at.

I think I've made up my mind that I would be better off with the display upgrade over the AVR. I've saved all my dollar bills over the summer specifically for throwing it away on black Friday and have half the new TV paid for right there plus my 50" sold to my friend if I go through with the deal so it's not a really financially stingy upgrade if I do it. Save some change, sell the old, bam, new TV. I have no one to buy the Denon and the 4311ci is still going for around $2000 around my parts.

[Hdale85]

Sounds like you already know which one you want......

[Kal Rubinson]

You would be happy with a 50" at viewing distance of 9.5feet?

Yup and I am. For me, the audio is more important and a 60" would obtrude into my speaker space. I would probably only go larger with an AT screen.

Sounds like you already know which one you want......

It does. :W

[stuofsci02]

Go for the 60" LG...

Since we have the same speaker setup, you might as well have the same TV.. Here is how it will look!

BTW.. I am also about 10' from the TV..

Cheers

[emig5m]

Yea, my mind is made up on a larger display....

Go for the 60" LG...

Since we have the same speaker setup, you might as well have the same TV.. Here is how it will look!

BTW.. I am also about 10' from the TV..

Cheers

What model LG is yours? I'm not liking what I'm reading over at AVS about the 2011 LG's (Dimming, flickering, color fluctuations). Actually my last year model LG 50" (PK540/550) also did the same thing, but I returned it for a newer build date and it was perfectly fine. I'm willing to take a gamble at a return/exchange to get it right like my last set (even though a 60" is going to be much more PITA to take back) but if they're all doing it, then all bets are off. I'm also currently looking into the Costco version of the Panasonic TC-P60S30 Plasma which is also 60".

BTW, I really like how you broke up the color of your acoustic panels. Are they from ATS? I wish I would of done that but I have six black micro-suede currently in transit to be delivered next Tuesday.

[stuofsci02]

My wife has mentioned that sometimes the TV looks to get dimmer under some light conditions. I noticed it a couple of times, but it was always when I was changing the lighting in the room (I have autobrightness enabled on the TV).

I have never noticed anything when using my Blu-Ray with the lights dim.

The panels are not from ATS. I made these myself. I am pretty happy with the colors, and it meets the WAF.

BTW.. Here is the info on the TV

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=38149

Cheers

Stuart

[Dmantis]

Not to derail or anything but have you considered a Panasonic Plasma ? For the money I feel the Panasonic models have a better overall picture.

As far as which one would I upgrade , it depends I have no ideal what speakers you have , it seems like have B&W of some kind , not that I would use a Denon for any B&W speakers.

[Hdale85]

How about a projector And get a pull down or motorized screen that will drop down in front of your projector. You can get one of the best non 3D projectors now for like 2k.

[emig5m]

Not to derail or anything but have you considered a Panasonic Plasma ? For the money I feel the Panasonic models have a better overall picture.

As far as which one would I upgrade , it depends I have no ideal what speakers you have , it seems like have B&W of some kind , not that I would use a Denon for any B&W speakers.

Yup, considering Panasonic. But every time I start researching a display there always seems to be a showstopper for about every model out this year. The Panasonics have the fluctuating brightness problem as demonstrated in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3mdFwnJqcg

For speakers I have 804S/HTM3S/685/Sunfire Signature EQ. Any reason why you wouldn't use Denon? I think the new Audyssey room correction programs are great and the 3311 and 4311 are the AVRs to have this year. (I use an external amp FYI)

[emig5m]

How about a projector And get a pull down or motorized screen that will drop down in front of your projector. You can get one of the best non 3D projectors now for like 2k.

I don't know that much about them like I do with LCD/LED/Plasma tech. How would they work with a HTPC? And does that price include a screen? If not, a little out of my price range right now. Can you link me to a good one? Possible to maintain the bright and vivid colors and contrast (or close to it) of a Plasma on a projector? Light isn't a problem because I have a light controlled room.

[Hdale85]

If light isn't a problem it should look about the same if not better. You can get a nice projector with a screen for 2k. Probably not the 8700UB or what not, but you could get the Epson 8350 for like 1200 I think that leaves PLENTY of budget for a screen. It will work the same with the HTPC, you just run an HDMI cable to it. Some good projector options

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...=REG&A=details Epson 8350

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...nema_3010.html Epson 3010 (new model 3D support)

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search...tialSearch=yes - Panasonic AE4000U one of the previous gens top rated projectors and said to be in the ultra black level category.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search...tialSearch=yes Epson 8700UB, this was said to be THE best black level performer under 3k last year.

The 8700UB and AE4000U are at the 2k mark, if you need to stay under that with a screen then you'll be looking at the 8350 or 3010, both are very nice projectors though and would likely make you happy and will have plenty of room for a screen in the budget. If you don't care about 3D you can likely just go with the 8350 as performance should be similar, although the 3010 is brighter for the 3D and I'm not sure I'd trust 3D performance to be amazing at the 1500 dollar mark. Either one should be fantastic though and likely to impress you and your friends. Couple this with a drop down or motorized 100" screen and you would be very happy, keep the 50" for casual viewing or TV watching.

[emig5m]

I wound up with the 60" LG today (60PV450). My budget for a display was around $1000 so it was either the LG or nothing so I took the gamble. First thing I did was run the break in slides from AVS to check for dead/stuck/misfiring pixels. None so far - test one = pass. Watched my first movie and had none of the problems some of the AVS'rs are complaining about (flickering/dimming/color fluctuations). I wonder if they're turning off the intelligent sensor and power saving mode but maybe overlooking other processing like Dynamic Contrast which is hidden a little deeper in the Advanced Menu? Maximizing a window in Windows desktop stays a nice bright white. The only problem with these LG's is some line bleeding but I almost never see it once the display's settings are optimized (not a showstopper IMO).

The display is basically a perfect clone of my properly running 50PK540 but just bigger. I copied over all my exact settings from the 540 and it looks pretty much identical. Even the menu is the same. I'm really happy about that because that's all I really wanted was an exact clone of my current set just larger (I really like LG's aesthetics as well).

I'm really happy with the size for movies so far. I thought about it all last night and today before my friend picked me up with his van this afternoon. I was worried about it being too big like sitting in the front rows of a movie theater where you keep having to look back and forth but it seems about spot on. Now the sound side of my system doesn't seem likes it's overpowering the video side of my HT. The system overall feels much more balanced. The larger size is a little strange at first like when I jumped up from the 42" to the 50" last year but I'm sure I'll get used to it right away and wonder if I should of went with a 65" or 70".

[Ovation]

I went from a 32" SDTV to a 64" (home made) screen with a projector. Took me about a week to "get used to it" (though I enjoyed it from day one). I would not go smaller in that room again (at least, no smaller in relative viewing angle).

Enjoy.

[emig5m]

I went from a 32" SDTV to a 64" (home made) screen with a projector. Took me about a week to "get used to it" (though I enjoyed it from day one). I would not go smaller in that room again (at least, no smaller in relative viewing angle).

Enjoy.

How far away do you sit? I moved the couch a half a foot away more from the back wall for sound reasons so I'm at 9ft now instead of 9.5. The room is actually 16ft wide but I have obstructions that doesn't currently allow the system to fire down the long end of the room. If I was smart last winter when I was remodeling and sheet rocking this room I should of sealed up the one door in the corner and moved it elsewhere....

[Ovation]

I sit 8.5 ft from the screen. It's a 720p projector (I've had it a while), otherwise I'd likely be a foot closer.

[Blues]

My wife has mentioned that sometimes the TV looks to get dimmer under some light conditions. I noticed it a couple of times, but it was always when I was changing the lighting in the room (I have autobrightness enabled on the TV).

I have never noticed anything when using my Blu-Ray with the lights dim.

The panels are not from ATS. I made these myself. I am pretty happy with the colors, and it meets the WAF.

BTW.. Here is the info on the TV

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=38149

Cheers

Stuart

Would you mind sharing some info regarding the sound panels? They look great!

[stuofsci02]

Would you mind sharing some info regarding the sound panels? They look great!

Thanks... I don't want to hijack the thread but here goes...

I built the sounds panels using 2" thick 4' x 2' Owen's Corning 703 (twelve pieces for $97). I built the frames from 1" x 4" pine. I designed the frames to leave 1.5" gap behind the OC 703. This helps absorb some lower freq too.

I wrapped the panel in an air permeable fabric (test by trying to breath through it). Some people use burlap etc. I pulled the fabric tight with the help of my wife and stapled it to the backs of the frames (kind of like apolstering).

I then hung them on the wall using heavy duty drywall anchors. The back of the panels have a lip on them the way that they are made so this makes them hang flush against the wall when hung on the drywall anchors. It also permits me to slide them left/right a few inches for positioning.

By my calcs they should have very linear absorbtion from about 250 hz and up. Absorbtion decreases at lower freq, but still is much better then bare walls all the way down to 100 hz.

Here are pics of the frames construction etc:

[Blues]

Nice work. Thx for the info!

[emig5m]

Yea, I'm so lazy when it comes to building things not to mention I couldn't find any Owens Corning or Rockwool in my area anyway. When I did the pricing, ATS Panels weren't much more than building them myself especially if I ordered the Owens Corning and had to pay shipping. Heck, I'm so mental blocked by measurements (reason I would be a bad carpenter, heh) it took me nearly an hour to mount each pre-made panel with making sure the clips on the wall would line up perfectly with the clips on the panel and to make sure they would end up at the desired height, centered, level, etc, heh. I can't believe I was actually able to sheetrock this room myself, lol. :lol:

Anyway, even though I went with the TV instead of the AVR, I still have the AVR on the back of my mind. If I can come across conclusive evidence that I will gain an audible by ear sonic gain from jumping up to Audyssey XT32, I might just get the Denon 4311 too. You only live once right?

I really need to try to find a nice TV stand that can also accommodate the HTM3S because I'm still using my makeshift stand that was originally an aquarium stand! :E





Can't wall mount since there's a window directly behind the TV.

[emig5m]

Oh, stuofsci02, as a LG Plasma owner you should have a look at this thread here about improving the black levels on LG plasmas: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1372479

Some say that it gives you blacks nearly on par with the Pioneer Kuros. The only time I seen a Kuro in person was at my B&W dealer but that was in the broad daylight and I wasn't really paying attention to it so I can't comment on how close it is to a Kuro, but I can tell you that it is night and day difference on my new 60" from the out of the box settings! (you have to take the back panel off and adjust some POTs with a small screwdriver) This display is just amazing for the price after the black level tweaks are applied! :T Just watch you don't ZAP yourself in the process! :rofl:

[Hdale85]

One of the nice things about XT32 is you have a ton more measurement points you can put in if you get the Audessey Pro mic kit. I think the standard XT offers like 8 or something, where as the XT32 you can do 32 different points of measurement to try and get as close to a flat response across your whole room. Now if you're mostly just worried about getting a flat response in your sweet spot then I wouldn't worry about it. There may be some other issues that are nice that you may benefit from, but this is one of the bigger differences between the 2 receivers, that and the ability to shut off internal amps not in use, and the ability to do 12 channel surround.

[stuofsci02]

Oh, stuofsci02, as a LG Plasma owner you should have a look at this thread here about improving the black levels on LG plasmas: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1372479

Some say that it gives you blacks nearly on par with the Pioneer Kuros. The only time I seen a Kuro in person was at my B&W dealer but that was in the broad daylight and I wasn't really paying attention to it so I can't comment on how close it is to a Kuro, but I can tell you that it is night and day difference on my new 60" from the out of the box settings! (you have to take the back panel off and adjust some POTs with a small screwdriver) This display is just amazing for the price after the black level tweaks are applied! :T Just watch you don't ZAP yourself in the process! :rofl:

Awesome.. Mine is wall mounted so this would be a major pain to do.. Maybe sometime when I have some time... Thanks for the link!

[emig5m]

Kinda close on pulling the trigger on a refurbed Denon A100 for $1000 off MSRP. My only fear is that when I go into say Best Buy and look at all the open box stuff on sale there's always cosmetic damage. When I got my 3311 they had a open box one but someone must have dropped it because some of the speaker connectors where bent and twisted! I've seen returned TV's so scratched up I couldn't believe a store would except it as a return! (Circuit City) It looked like it was in a car wreck or slid down two flights of stairs! But is a "factory refurb" different than a "open box"? I called the company and they said that cosmetic flaws are normally luck of the draw but they're repacked with brand new boxes and sealed and sold just like new.

[Hdale85]

Factory refurb generally means that they take it back and fix it and return it to like new condition. I've never had a factory refurb come in looking like anything other then new. Maybe a minor scratch or something but nothing serious like you mention.

[emig5m]

I finally wound up with a processor with XT32 (Denon X4000) and wanted to update the thread since the jump in performance over XT is so good. So for anyone out there debating whether to to settle on XT over XT32, definitely make the jump to XT32. Here's my full in depth review of it here: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1510203/fo...have-them-both

[emig5m]

Oh yea, forgot to mention my next upgrade... At some point when funds allow I'm going to replace my 685's in the rear with 804S. I want equal performance from each and every channel... and finally, I'll probably get another matching sub some time down the road and then I'll be done other than replacing processors as new tech comes out...

[wkhanna]

thanks for the update!

there is a lot interesting info in this thread!

[Chris D]

Hey, thanks for the update! Good to know you like XT32 that much.

[John Holmes]

It is a beautiful thing, when new gear actually make a positive difference. Congrats, enjoy!