Your Analog TV Will Stop Receiving in 6 months! (HOT topic!)

[H.T.C]

Warning, everyone--you have approximately 75 days until analog television broadcast ends FOREVER!!!

You, know, if a object much larger falls to earth like what happen in canada on november 26? with the meteorite that exploded with the capacity of 300 tons of tnt,we may not be here to view hdtv and then what will hollywood do without those huge paychecks and striking every other year.

[Kevin D]

Well, technically 105 days...

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/CA6616487.html

Seems congress is concerned not every one got the message..

Kevin D.

[Chris D]

Thanks, Kevin D! Hadn't heard that update. Not surprising that here in the last days, they're pushing things back more. I wonder if the new administration will have any more effect on it.

[Chris D]

It's now official. The digital television conversion has been delayed until June 12th, 2009.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-10150551-38.html

That article's kind of interesting, actually, saying that the converter box program had run out of money. Also, quite important, those that got the coupons, but had them expire before buying the converer boxes, can now apply for new ones. Before, if you let them expire, you were out of luck. Also, note that stations ARE allowed to switch early to all-digital, if they like.

You can only "kick the can" for so long, though. Sooner or later, you gotta face the transition.

[littlesaint]

The House still has to pass it's version of the bill. They are voting today. I had also heard about running out of funds to offset converters. I think a lot of it has to do with communication. Many people went out and got their free converter and didn't need one.

[Alaric]

Sometime in June , anyone?

[H.T.C]

It's now official. The digital television conversion has been delayed until June 12th, 2009.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-10150551-38.html

That article's kind of interesting, actually, saying that the converter box program had run out of money. Also, quite important, those that got the coupons, but had them expire before buying the converer boxes, can now apply for new ones. Before, if you let them expire, you were out of luck. Also, note that stations ARE allowed to switch early to all-digital, if they like.

You can only "kick the can" for so long, though. Sooner or later, you gotta face the transition.

I wonder how many people other the hobbiests actually gives a rats you know what about dtv or care to know the difference.

With the economic conditions being awful and the cost of cable television being a extra cost,if many consumers discontinue the service and would be better if they just download netflix for movies or used hulu for shows,some already are.

[aud19]

You can only "kick the can" for so long, though. Sooner or later, you gotta face the transition.

Oy! Can't believe the delayed it AGAIN! I agree sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and move forward. Hope this doesn't encourage a delay with the Canadian transition (already behind the USA).

[Alaric]

My opinion is the whole thing is crap. The commercials claiming "no snow" is 99% BS. If you have snow now , you'll get nothing with digital. It's an all-or-nothing format , and the motivation is revenue enhancement for the gummint. My gummint gets enough revenue as it is.

[aud19]

Granted there is financial benefit to the government (which by definition is the people) but you also can't have your country's broadcast system remain in the stone ages just because you feel your "gummint gets enough revenue as it is."

[littlesaint]

The bill was voted down in the House. So as of right now there is no delay until June.

Yes it is true the "snow" argument is a bit misinformation. However, the changes move channels into the UHF or near-UHF band which are more powerful than the current VHF bands most NTSC channels reside in. SO by consequence, picking up signals over antenna should be easier. I can attest that with my indoor antenna, ATSC is very clean, while NTSC is full of snow...much like my driveway right now.

[Alaric]

Granted there is financial benefit to the government (which by definition is the people) but you also can't have your country's broadcast system remain in the stone ages just because you feel your "gummint gets enough revenue as it is."

True to some extent , but much of the 'stone age' argument is provided by governments that profit from the sale of bandwidth. Also , by definition , my government is as far removed from "the people" as that of Hugo Chavez. There is no rational reason to disrupt , en masse , the entire broadcast system of a nation this size , other than profit. IMO.


Hope you're feeling better , and wishing you the best. :later:

[aud19]

I'm not American so I don't get any government propaganda on one side or other of the issue. My information comes from my own research/reading etc and if you want to ignore the obvious benefits of of upgrading to a modern digital broadcast system and why it's required not only for itself but to free up bandwidth for other services that the American public will need to stay competitive globally, well that's a short sighted IMO.

[Alaric]

Except many people will lose signal altogether-digital is all or nothing. Ignoring the profit motive is ignoring the truth. New Jersey has America's highest population density-13%. A lot of us don't have close access to high-powered 'digital' broadcast stations. Granny in the middle of bum-fck Nebraska will lose her TV. In this country , we supposedly value the individual. Moving away from that is part of what drives the profit-motivated 'digital' movement. As for being "globally competitive" , do you really think China gives a shit about our TV reception? Does the opinion of France mean anything ? [hint:NO]

Too many times too many people worry about the'global' view of America. For now , we lead-not follow. Our economy thrives and the world does it our way , so let's make our economy thrive. Just sayin'. :B

[H.T.C]

I'm not American so I don't get any government propaganda on one side or other of the issue. My information comes from my own research/reading etc and if you want to ignore the obvious benefits of of upgrading to a modern digital broadcast system and why it's required not only for itself but to free up bandwidth for other services that the American public will need to stay competitive globally, well that's a short sighted IMO.

There is nothing wrong with upgrading but in the case of digital ever being interfered with (non-cable) using a dtv antenna or a storm causing disruption can they revert back to analog for information with a dtv tuner ?

Analog may produce snow but it may be the only backup when dtv is down,again of course this is with people not using cable.

One example is digital satellite radio,when a huge storm occurs it becomes non existent and analog radio becomes the only option left for wireless programming (not including internet).

[Alaric]

My internet/cable/phone is with Time Warner. They use a satellite dish to receive/pass along the signal. When a bad storm comes through , all my systems have issues. Good thing DVD players are cheap...

[littlesaint]

Have to disagree with the "storm" thinking. When my DirecTV goes out from a storm, my ATSC tuner works perfectly. In fact. I've never lost ATSC due to a storm. I use a $10 indoor antenna, and I live 30 miles from my local station's transmitters. I think you're making much to do about nothing.

[Alaric]

I think you're making much to do about nothing.

I think you're not living northwest of Columbus.

[Alaric]

BTW , I wouldn't ever give DTV a freakin' penny again. If they showed up on my doorstep I'd be doing hard time in Chillicothe or Marion.

[aud19]

As for being "globally competitive" , do you really think China gives a shit about our TV reception? Does the opinion of France mean anything ? [hint:NO]

Too many times too many people worry about the'global' view of America. For now , we lead-not follow. Our economy thrives and the world does it our way , so let's make our economy thrive. Just sayin'. :B

I was actually referring to that bandwidth being used for additional cell and other forms of communication that will be required for American business people, scientists, professionals etc to stay competitive technologically with the rest of the world. Has nothing to do with international opinion or view of America, has to do with having the tools to be competitive in a global economy. Currently America is FAR behind the leaders in the world in that regard. Followers, not leaders in that regard.

On a side note I believe some of the bandwidth is also being given to emergency services (police, fire, ambulance etc) so THEY can also be more up to date and perform their jobs faster with more information etc. Point being there's a lot more to it than the government making a quick buck (which I don't see anything wrong with either, they're going to need that money for all those public works projects/job creation etc).

[Alaric]

I was actually referring to that bandwidth being used for additional cell and other forms of communication that will be required for American business people, scientists, professionals etc to stay competitive technologically with the rest of the world. Has nothing to do with international opinion or view of America, has to do with having the tools to be competitive in a global economy. Currently America is FAR behind the leaders in the world in that regard. Followers, not leaders in that regard

Jason , I like you , and don't wish to be 'pissy' about this , but we are the global economy. Whether or not a few thousand schoolchildren can get a text message through in .05 nanoseconds as opposed to .0025 nanoseconds , isn't relevant to a nation's real impact on a global economy. The international language of science and air travel is English-and not because our TV signals are state-of-the-art.

[littlesaint]

I think you're not living northwest of Columbus.

Are the storms worse in northwest Columbus than in southwest Cleveland?

[Alaric]

Are the storms worse in northwest Columbus than in southwest Cleveland?

Naaahhhhh. Just the technology and support systems!

[littlesaint]

Jason , I like you , and don't wish to be 'pissy' about this , but we are the global economy. Whether or not a few thousand schoolchildren can get a text message through in .05 nanoseconds as opposed to .0025 nanoseconds , isn't relevant to a nation's real impact on a global economy. The international language of science and air travel is English-and not because our TV signals are state-of-the-art.

How about reading up on exactly what is changing and why and then having in informed opinion? It's becoming clear you don't have a clue what is at stake here. :roll:

[Alaric]

How about reading up on exactly what is changing and why and then having in informed opinion? It's becoming clear you don't have a clue what is at stake here. :roll:

As opposed to buying into press releases and government BS?

[aud19]

Jason , I like you , and don't wish to be 'pissy' about this , but we are the global economy. Whether or not a few thousand schoolchildren can get a text message through in .05 nanoseconds as opposed to .0025 nanoseconds , isn't relevant to a nation's real impact on a global economy. The international language of science and air travel is English-and not because our TV signals are state-of-the-art.

Hate to tell you but you WERE the global economy and this goes WAY beyond text messages or the speed they're sent. Information is the commerce of the now and future and to be able to send/interact/modify/create etc with it requires technology America is behind on which means they are behind on the ability to lead commerce globally. Again you really need to look further in to this if you're going to argue against it because without all the information you're missing you're going to have a very short sighted view of the situation. The digital TV transition is about way more than TV or it's state of the art signals. You either move with the world or it will move on with out you.

And for the record I got none of that info from press releases or government BS

[Alaric]

BTW , we have have DTV all over Columbus , you know , the capitol of Ohio? The signal reception is spotty , and for crap. Nothing but money is "at stake" here. Revenue enhancement is the ONLY motivation. The reasons other countries are all digital is twofold-MONEY , and most systems were 40+ years old and in need of refurb. Our broadcast systems have been maintained and upgraded a couple times in the last FOUR decades. A $20 dollar national economy is easy to change-America's is a bit more difficult. I'm wrong? Check how many times the "digital transition" has been postponed.

So , what is "at stake"? What is the crisis that should force America to puke coinage at the national treasury? Spell it out-don't try to blow smoke up my butt-tell us why we're in danger if we don't sell overpriced bandwidth to Verizon.

[aud19]

So , what is "at stake"? What is the crisis that should force America to puke coinage at the national treasury? Spell it out-don't try to blow smoke up my butt-tell us why we're in danger if we don't sell overpriced bandwidth to Verizon.

Because your workforce will not be able to compete with better, smarter, cheaper and more advanced countries with more advanced tools. You're students will suffer the same fate making the work force fall further and further behind. If I'm being honest, that's in fact already happened. American students and hence the work force they turn in to have been slipping further out of the lead they used to hold for a while now. If you as a country don't turn that around soon...

And Asia (China and Japan particularly) , Europe, India etc have far more than $20 economies. But you're right the transition is all about revenue. The picture's just a LOT bigger than you're painting it. Also the NTSC standard is based on something that was created in 1941 and has been tweaked a few times. Do you really think that's acceptable?

[Chris D]

Wow... this topic really stirred up a hornet's nest. And all I did was post a news update--honest!

I'm viewing the whole transition from the standpoint of "bandwith management". As much as none of us like everything about the FCC, there are definitely parts of it that are CRITICALLY important. i.e: As a pilot, when I'm talking to Air Traffic Control, it's essential that I hear information clearly, without distortion or interference from another radio or power source. When I'm navigating, it's essential that my instruments do not get erroneous data, bled-over from another emitter of any type.

As world technology progresses, we have more and more electronic things that emit into the electronic spectrum. (and not just intentionally broadcast--power sources and other electrical currents can cause emissions!) When one source interferes with another source, BOTH lose out, with degraded signals! So moving from NTSC to ATSC DTV is only one piece of a MUCH larger picture to manage the spectrum, planning out which components can operate where and not have anything interfere with each other, leaving plenty of room for future expansion, NOT just current status.

The middle of Kansas may have plenty of space frequency bandwith. But those same components that operate there (AM/FM radio, TV, cell phones, UHF/VHF radio, etc) can also be taken into New Jersey and must be able to operate there. Therefore, the entire country must be on the same standard. (which then must interact with the rest of the world!)

[Alaric]

Because your workforce will not be able to compete with better, smarter, cheaper and more advanced countries with more advanced tools. You're students will suffer the same fate making the work force fall further and further behind. If I'm being honest, that's in fact already happened. American students and hence the work force they turn in to have been slipping further out of the lead they used to hold for a while now. If you as a country don't turn that around soon...

And Asia (China and Japan particularly) , Europe, India etc have far more than $20 economies. But you're right the transition is all about revenue. The picture's just a LOT bigger than you're painting it. Also the NTSC standard is based on something that was created in 1941 and has been tweaked a few times. Do you really think that's acceptable?

You are 100% correct. The NEA has completely trashed our education system , and our students are pathetic. We couldn't turn out a $10.00 per hour math major if our lives depended on it. It's a national embarassment-or would be if these yo-yos understood the problem. A pretty picture on the TV ain't gonna fix it. I just think our resources would be better utilized if put towards almost anything besides digital television. Yet , the gummint goes for the short-term revenue stream , instead of the long term solution. We'll hold the lead for most of my remaining lifespan through sheer inertia , but things will go very badly in the foreseeable future. DTV ain't gonna fix it. IMO.

[Chris D]

We couldn't turn out a $10.00 per hour math major if our lives depended on it.

...hey, I was a math major. :T Can I get $10?

[aud19]

Ok again, this is more than about just DTV, Chris I thought illustrated it pretty clearly as well. Of course looking at it as a one dimensional scenario of just digital TV won't fix the education problem. But looking at the bigger picture of bandwidth management as it relates to technology as a tool to teach and create commerce among many other things as a PART of the solution is what you're missing here. If you can't open your mind beyond that one dimensional view a bit I don't see how there can be a discussion here.

[Alaric]

I thought this thread was about America's DTV "transition". Yeah , the overall subject matter could encompass a myriad of issues-and , no , all our problems won't be fixed by making the education system function the way I think it should. I went a little deeper into the matter than was apparently necessary. As for the "big picture" , there is no big picture if you can't make a pixel.

You don't "create" commerce. You sell things. That is what business is. If you can't count well enough to make change , you're screwed and deservedly so. Commerce isn't shuffling papers or virtual conferences. Too many souls get enamored of technology and forget the transfer of goods-for-profit is what makes the cash register work.

Chris , if you were a math major more than 10 years ago , I'll try to get you hired! Seriously , aerial navigation is functional math. It's the theoretical stuff I'm whining about.

[Chris D]

....... aaaaaaaaaand it looks like we're back to the June pushback. Waiting for President Obama's signature.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/TECH/02/04/d...ote/index.html

[David Meek]

I was going to suggest modifying the title of this thread, but with the way the deadline keeps getting bumped we may as well leave it. It very well may be 6 months from today, or tomorrow, or. . . . :roll:

[Chris D]

Yeah, did that ever get signed and approved? What IS is the latest date?

I'm curious if anyone has had their local station go ahead and swap over to all-digital, since apparently stations were allowed to do that if they so chose, although the DEADLINE where it was MANDATORY to be swapped over has been pushed back.

In Alaska, the switch has not happened yet.

[David Meek]

June 12th (I don't thing the President has signed it, though). Here's a link to the official FCC site's news page. Scroll down to 3/17 and you'll see icons for downloading a list of stations switching on June 12 and a list of stations that have or are planning to switch before then.

[Chris D]

Ah... wow, there's a lot of stations that are still transitioning early, a bunch of them right now in mid-April. Has anybody heard stories of transitions not going well, or consumers squawking yet about losing reception?

Unfortunately, for those who are REALLY cash-strapped, this could be hitting in the wrong time with the unforseen economic downturn--people not able to replace TV's or buy enough converter boxes, even with the voucher program.

On that note, the voucher program had run out of money and no more were available. I wonder if that ever changed like there was talk of...

[JonMarsh]

My analog TV? What analog TV? I haven't had an analog TV since when I was divorced, back in 1990. You mean they've still been broadcasting that 480i color burst signal crap with no chroma bandwidth all this time!?!? :W

(ca. 1990, all my video viewing was Laserdisk on S-Video. For that time and age, the equivalent of Bluray or HD-DVD).

[H.T.C]

Acording to a group called consumers union who asked congress to extend the analog cut off date because so many did not have their dtv converters and also noted that the goverment pocketed $19 billion from the sale of analog tv space and forcing remaining veiwers to pay for them on their own including elderly and low income groups.

The nielson company discovered that 7 million households were not ready for the switch even though ad money poured into the program.

This is from a end of a paragraph on hdtv and states it pretty well that if you still have a tv set your probably watching movies on netflix anyways.

[David Meek]

7 million? Wow.

Up here in the islands, you're either satellite or antenna. Those of us with satellite are good to go and some of the "antenna people" are using OTA HD decoders for the signals from Seattle. The rest are having to make choices right now about what to do and like Robert points out, the financial timing couldn't have been much worse for many of them.

[dknightd]

On that note, the voucher program had run out of money and no more were available. I wonder if that ever changed like there was talk of...

It does make you wonder how our government operates. They have a transition from analog to digital that has been in the works for years. Probably many highly paid government specialists. But it gets botched, so what do they do, simple, they extend the deadline. Presumably this was being handled by well trained FCC people, but I could be wrong. I think it is safe to say that the government only changes deadlines when it suits their needs (I don't see public outrage changing the income tax deadline, but I suppose it is possible).

The Government can dump Billions and Billions of dollars into a stimulus package, but they run out of money on a voucher program that was their idea to start with! Give me a break! It didn't take them long to find Billions of dollars to help the people who hire lobbyests. I don't know if I should laugh or cry. I guess I just don't get it. . .

IMO somebody (probably many people) messed up. I guess if it doesn't hurt anybody, and no harm was done, then maybe it is OK to extend the deadline to help those who were not paying attention, and were not ready. Perhaps this was the plan all along? Like I said, maybe I just don't get it.

edit: anybody remember the switch to the metric system that was supposed to happen decades ago? We live in a global economy but we can't even decide to measure things in meters instead of feet. . . That idea seems to have been lost in the shuffle. Then NASA crashes a spaceship into Mars because one group was using meters, and the group was using feet. Even "rocket scientists" apparently can't get things right sometimes.

[dknightd]

Up here in the islands ... snip ... the financial timing couldn't have been much worse for many of them.

Off topic, sorry.

How is the real estate market doing up there? Maybe now is the time for me to consider a retirement living location - the Islands would be one place to consider if the prices got low enough to be affordable. It is a nice area, though maybe not too convenient. I sure would like to get back to someplace west of the Mississippi.

[Mike B]

I applied for a coupon on line and it got here in a couple of weeks. I also bought a directional antenna optimised for 7-69. Applied my coupon to a Channel Master CM-7000 D to A converter box and that arrived last Friday.

The converter box has a signal strength meter which will be very useful in aiming the antenna.

Gotta love these free govt programs.

[Chris D]

Would really like to hear the info you can give about that converter box--how you picked that one, how well it works, if you have any knowledge of other box models that might compare, etc. Thanks!