DTS MA coming to PS3 (early as next week)

[Nolan B]

This makes me very happy. DTS MA from a firmware update for free is the best freebee I can ever remember getting. Instantly 20+ tittles in my library just went lossless :T

http://www.dtsonline.com/company/press/press-article.php?ID=1601180336&cID=1&yID=2008

The rumour is it could be coming as early as April 15th. I can't confirm it because the link is from a site which is all in Japanese.

[RebelMan]

Vancouver was there any doubt? :W

[PewterTA]

Lots of people doubted me when I told them they would... Just takes time for people to get up to date.

[Chris D]

Yes, the dates I'm seeing are April 15th. The official web video says "mid April".

http://www.electronichouse.com/artic..._master_audio/

The firmware update is apparently coming at the same time as the new Playstation Store, which is coming online in time for the 17 April release (on the PS store) of Grand Tourismo 5. So, if you're going to get the game, you get three big events, all the same day.

As far as the firmware release, this is pretty big, and could incorporate some other cool stuff, too. One rumor is that "Home" could also be included. So we'll get DTS-MA for sure, which is AWESOME--I have a couple demo discs I got from the DTS corporation for DTS-MA that I haven't been able to try out yet, since the PS3 didn't have that capability. The thing I find interesting, though, is that these news reports are saying that it also will add DTS-HD. I could have sworn that we already had DTS-HD. Or maybe we only had the core packets of DTS-HD... that's sounding familiar. In any case, it looks like we're getting decoding of these formats. HBR Bitstreaming is still not possible yet.

[audioqueso]

Sweet! Now all that is left is for a modchip to be created to allow all regions of movies, and then I'll buy a PS3.

[RebelMan]

Lots of people doubted me when I told them they would... Just takes time for people to get up to date.

I got official confirmation from a SONY insider at CES. Back then I implicitly stated that two major updates would be forth coming, although, I didn't say when specifically. However, I conveyed it to a friend in confidence that the first update would be BDLive (Profile 2.0) around spring and then dtsHD-MA sometime thereafter, likely around summer. Well, the first came true as scheduled but the latter a bit sooner that I was expecting but nonetheless welcome. Maybe now Vancouver will take more stock in what I have said about a few other things. :W

[Chris D]

Okay, Rebelman... so when are we getting HBR streaming? We want to know!

[Nolan B]

Maybe now Vancouver will take more stock in what I have said about a few other things. :W

ok be specific....

What other things have you said that I gave you the feeling I dont take stock in what you say?

If memory serves me right I have agreed with you on most of the recent topics i.e. HDMI 1.1 vs 1.3, decoding in the player vs decoding in the processor.

[RebelMan]

Okay, Rebelman... so when are we getting HBR streaming? We want to know!

They were a little less forthcoming about HBR either because they weren't sure if or when or they didn't want to give away the fort. But the impression I got was that it could happen this year. I was hoping that it would piggyback off of the dts update.

[RebelMan]

ok be specific....

What other things have you said that I gave you the feeling I dont take stock in what you say?

If memory serves me right I have agreed with you on most of the recent topics i.e. HDMI 1.1 vs 1.3, decoding in the player vs decoding in the processor.

Okay, I was messing with you somewhat. Having said that, I'm still not sure if you were convinced (even if just a bit) about the talks we had concerning codecs and processors. :P

[Nolan B]

Okay, I was messing with you somewhat. Having said that, I'm still not sure if you were convinced (even if just a bit) about the talks we had concerning codecs and processors. :P

I have always been 100% convinced that codecs dont need to be in the processor if they are in the player. The only thing we dissgreed on was I felt the SSP 800 should at least include DTS MA because of the lack of player which decode it.

Now, or course....i could care less

[Nolan B]

As im sure many of you have already done this, but I have upgraded my PS3 and watch my first BD with a DTS MA track (Juno). Great Flick.

DTS MA is officially the best "free" thing I can remember getting. As much as I want to hate Sony thier stock to me has just raised. :T

[Chris D]

Just did the update, too.

For comparison and testing sake, I have a BD test disc that I got from DTS, with all demo tracks/scenes encoded in DTS-MA. I popped the disc in my PS3, not even sure if it would play or not. It did--PS3 track info said it was playing DTS "5.1", with 1.5Mbps. This would be legacy DTS, although at full bitrate. Sounded good, but I could tell it was a bit thin.

Did the update, not even taking out the disc. Started auto-playing as soon as it rebooted. Same Peter Gabriel concert video sounded fuller and more detailed. PS3 track info showed "DTS-MA", playing in 3.5Mbps. Cool... I flipped through the tracks. The best one showed up as "DTS-MA 7.1", playing at 10.5 MBps. Wow!

Awesome, awesome update.

[Nolan B]

Agreed.

I have read, however, that there is an issue ifyou have a 7.1 set up. For many tittles which have a 7.1 track the PS3 will report that it is decoding and sending PCM 7.1 but its actually only sending 5.1. This doesnt happen with the DTS demo disc, but just some of the BD tittles with a DTS MA 7.1 track. Perhaps an issue with the how the studios encoed the track or perhaps an issue with the PS3 firmware.

I would expect a fix soon, but thats just a guess.

Just did the update, too.

For comparison and testing sake, I have a BD test disc that I got from DTS, with all demo tracks/scenes encoded in DTS-MA. I popped the disc in my PS3, not even sure if it would play or not. It did--PS3 track info said it was playing DTS "5.1", with 1.5Mbps. This would be legacy DTS, although at full bitrate. Sounded good, but I could tell it was a bit thin.

Did the update, not even taking out the disc. Started auto-playing as soon as it rebooted. Same Peter Gabriel concert video sounded fuller and more detailed. PS3 track info showed "DTS-MA", playing in 3.5Mbps. Cool... I flipped through the tracks. The best one showed up as "DTS-MA 7.1", playing at 10.5 MBps. Wow!

Awesome, awesome update.

[Jack Gilvey]

Agreed.

I have read, however, that there is an issue ifyou have a 7.1 set up. For many tittles which have a 7.1 track the PS3 will report that it is decoding and sending PCM 7.1 but its actually only sending 5.1. This doesnt happen with the DTS demo disc, but just some of the BD tittles with a DTS MA 7.1 track. Perhaps an issue with the how the studios encoed the track or perhaps an issue with the PS3 firmware.

I would expect a fix soon, but thats just a guess.

There's apparently an issue with specific New Line 7.1 titles.

[NMG]

I assume that this update won't do anything unless you are using HDMI connections? Right now my PS3 is connected to my RSX-1056 via optical output. Eventually I will upgrade my amp/processor to something with HDMI inputs, but for the immediate time being, is the PS3 upgrade worthwhile?

I'll probably do it just to have the most current firmware, just not sure if my current setup can really take advantage of it. LOVE the PS3 though!!!!

[RebelMan]

As much as I want to hate Sony...

Why would you feel that way? You've got a great format (Blu-ray) and a great player (PS3) all because of Sony. I'm not what you would call a Sony supporter either but I think in this case they deserve some credit for their tenacity. No body's perfect and just because they have a big stake in the CE industry doesn't make them evil. Remember it was the consumer that put them there in the first place.

[Nolan B]

Why would you feel that way? You've got a great format (Blu-ray) and a great player (PS3) all because of Sony. I'm not what you would call a Sony supporter either but I think in this case they deserve some credit for their tenacity. No body's perfect and just because they have a big stake in the CE industry doesn't make them evil. Remember it was the consumer that put them there in the first place.

You are right they have given us a good format and the PS3 is great. The reason i hate sony and wanted HD DVD to win was simply because I learned they have on many occasions served shark fin soupat company functions for no other reason than a status symbol.

After watching sharkwater Im a little sensitive to the issue. Sounds crazy but i just have it in me not to like sony as a result.

[Dmantis]

I never got it straight, does the ps3 only stream or can it internally decode the DTS MA signal?

[Hdale85]

It decodes it internally and outputs it as PCM over HDMI.

[Chris D]

Yes, unfortunately, the PS3 does not bitstream. We're all hoping that this is added in the future.

[RebelMan]

Yes, unfortunately, the PS3 does not bitstream. We're all hoping that this is added in the future.

I was led to believe it will (maybe later this year) based on the raised eyebrows and devilish grin I got when asked. :W

[btf1980]

Yes, unfortunately, the PS3 does not bitstream. We're all hoping that this is added in the future.

Well, you'll be hoping for a long time because that won't happen. The PS3 will never bitstream DTS MA HD or Dolby True HD. It's a hardware limitation.

[littlesaint]

Well, you'll be hoping for a long time because that won't happen. The PS3 will never bitstream DTS MA HD or Dolby True HD. It's a hardware limitation.

I've read this as well, but I don't know if it is an absolute never. The HDMI port is 1.3, so it has the bandwidth, it just lacks the feature. There so such thing as an HDMI 1.3 port that cannot do it, it has to be able to by definition. The question is whether this can be added with a firmware update, or it is a "burned in" feature. Now that it decodes all formats internally, it is somewhat of a moot argument except for those who own HDMI 1.3 receivers and feel they are lacking something. Internal decoding allows you to have a greater part of the Blu-ray feature set available as opposed to only being able to utilize one audio stream.

[RebelMan]

Well, you'll be hoping for a long time because that won't happen. The PS3 will never bitstream DTS MA HD or Dolby True HD. It's a hardware limitation.

What is your source?

[littlesaint]

What is your source?

This information has been posted on most sites such as Engadget, Ars, etc. Their sources are mostly anecdotal talk and posts from AVS. It is obvious that right now the HDMI ports on PS3s do not support the HD codecs. HD codec support is optional in the HDMI 1.3 spec. It is also one of the only examples I've seen of an HDMI 1.3 chip the does not include HD codec support, so Sony must have made an explicit decision not to support it, so it is doubtful they would enable it unless the demand is high enough. Internal decoding reaches a wider audience with more features. It is interesting that they do include Deep Color support which isn't really used by anything outside of Sony video cameras, and is not part of the Blu-ray spec.

[RebelMan]

This information has been posted on most sites such as Engadget, Ars, etc. Their sources are mostly anecdotal talk and posts from AVS.

In other words, it was a mistake to post the statement as a matter of fact? My discussion with Sony indicated differently about potential HBR streaming. I would like to see specific sources to the contrary. Can you produce them? :W

[littlesaint]

In other words, it was a mistake to post the statement as a matter of fact? My discussion with Sony indicated differently about potential HBR streaming. I would like to see specific sources to the contrary. Can you produce them? :W

Well I didn't make the statement, and no offense, but I would hardly call hearsay on your part any more reliable than Internet anecdotes. Try googling "PS3, bitstream, HDMI".

[RebelMan]

Well I didn't make the statement, and no offense, but I would hardly call hearsay on your part any more reliable than Internet anecdotes. Try googling "PS3, bitstream, HDMI".

You assumed responsibility once you stepped in. I'm not straddle with the burden of proof as I made no factual statements to the contrary. Having said that I am certain my face-to-face sources are more reliable than the Internet parroting going on here. I am asking you (anyone) to show me the money. If you can't put up then...

Not trying to be offensive but it was stated... "that won't happen". I never said "it will happen" only that it was indicated to me that it could happen and possibly this year. In either case it matters little to me weather the PS3 streams HBR or not. I am only reporting what I was led to believe. Hearsay? Maybe, as anything could change. It wouldn't be the first time something was promised but went undelivered.

BTW, it was the same source that revealed to me the eventual inclusion of BDLive and dts-HD MA in the PS3 which I (factually) commented on and linked in earlier in this thread and in another post. :P

[H.T.C]

I believe one of the podcasts shows av rant/real home theater or from the (two guys) avs forum which i think thats where it came from made a statement doutbfull to never for that upgrade but it still does not mean it wont occur.

Alot of ps3 users have (home) on their minds now and are waiting for that.

[Dmantis]

You assumed responsibility once you stepped in. I'm not straddle with the burden of proof as I made no factual statements to the contrary. Having said that I am certain my face-to-face sources are more reliable than the Internet parroting going on here. I am asking you (anyone) to show me the money. If you can't put up then...

Not trying to be offensive but it was stated... "that won't happen". I never said "it will happen" only that it was indicated to me that it could happen and possibly this year. In either case it matters little to me weather the PS3 streams HBR or not. I am only reporting what I was led to believe. Hearsay? Maybe, as anything could change. It wouldn't be the first time something was promised but went undelivered.

BTW, it was the same source that revealed to me the eventual inclusion of BDLive and dts-HD MA in the PS3 which I (factually) commented on and linked in earlier in this thread and in another post. :P

This is the biggest problem today with todays gear. It's so confusing to get "THE FACTS STRAIGHT". I'm gonna call our Sony rep and see if he knows the complete run down. I was under the understanding that the Ps3 was only
going to bitstream out DTS MA not decode it.

So lets try to clear things up for everyone on the new audio formats.

1)Dolby Digital HD. According to Info found the Ps3 is suppost to decode it internally and pass it out PCM. What that means is any HDMI receiver or Preamp with 1.1 or above that can except PCM over Hdmi can experience the new audio format. If this is correct or not, someone please clear the air in Dummy terms.

2)DTS MA. Now I have let to believe as stated above that the Ps3 will Stream DTS MA. But according to a few in here, the Ps3 can decode it then Send it PCM. Ok so what does that mean to us? If it streams it then you need to decode it in the receiver or preamp. 1.3 HDMI will be needed on that end with a DTS MA decoder. Only 1 preamp has that right now and thats the Integra. Most new receivers can decode all new audio formats. If the ps3 can decode it, then you can use just about any HDMi receiver or preamp that excepts audio from HDMI Pcm and you can experience DTS MA.

So if someone can officially clear the air on exactly what is needed step by step to enjoy the new audio formats, I'm sure many of us will really benefit from it.

Thanks,

mantis

[littlesaint]

You assumed responsibility once you stepped in. I'm not straddle with the burden of proof as I made no factual statements to the contrary. Having said that I am certain my face-to-face sources are more reliable than the Internet parroting going on here. I am asking you (anyone) to show me the money. If you can't put up then...

Not trying to be offensive but it was stated... "that won't happen". I never said "it will happen" only that it was indicated to me that it could happen and possibly this year. In either case it matters little to me weather the PS3 streams HBR or not. I am only reporting what I was led to believe. Hearsay? Maybe, as anything could change. It wouldn't be the first time something was promised but went undelivered.

BTW, it was the same source that revealed to me the eventual inclusion of BDLive and dts-HD MA in the PS3 which I (factually) commented on and linked in earlier in this thread and in another post. :P

Why don't you try reading the thread before making accusations. :M :M

I didn't state anything as fact, someone else did. I stated that it has been reported on other sites from inside sources that this may be true, and a firmware update may be possible, and in my opinion Sony may not be too concerned anyway.

Predicting DTSHD MA and BDLive would come to the PS3 is like saying the sun was going to rise in the morning. Good job there. ;x(

[RebelMan]

I was under the understanding that the Ps3 was only
going to bitstream out DTS MA not decode it.

So if someone can officially clear the air on exactly what is needed step by step to enjoy the new audio formats, I'm sure many of us will really benefit from it.

The PS3 decodes the advanced audio codecs (Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD, dts-HD High Resolution and dts-HD Master Audio) and passes the multi-channel PCM signal to the receiver/processor for processing and D/A conversion. The PS3 does not stream the advanced audio codecs in their RAW formats, not yet, but it does the standard ones like Dolby Digital and dts.

[RebelMan]

Why don't you try reading the thread before making accusations.

There were no accusations made.

I didn't state anything as fact, someone else did. I stated that it has been reported on other sites from inside sources that this may be true, and a firmware update may be possible, and in my opinion Sony may not be too concerned anyway.

No one said YOU did. However, you acted as proxy to the other poster when you claimed to have "read this as well" and when you addressed my question to him. My point is and has been what you have read is not consistent with what I was told. I agree that it (HBR streaming) may make little difference to Sony either way and my earlier comments were phrased accordingly.

Predicting DTSHD MA and BDLive would come to the PS3 is like saying the sun was going to rise in the morning. Good job there.

It came straight from Sony four months ago. If you re-read my remarks (from back then) you'll see the affirmation in which they were stated.

[audioqueso]

I just want a mod chip so I don't have to switch between two sources (Japanese and American) like I always have.

[H.T.C]

I just want a mod chip so I don't have to switch between two sources (Japanese and American) like I always have.

It does void the warranty.

[Pez]

Didnt the latest home theater magazine say the ps3 couldnt bitstream DTS MA? I could have sworn I read that in there and also it was a hardware limitation issue. Not trying to add any fule to the fire - I willl have to dig up that issue.

As long as I can get DTS-MA I am happy.

[RebelMan]

Didnt the latest home theater magazine say the ps3 couldnt bitstream DTS MA? I could have sworn I read that in there and also it was a hardware limitation issue. Not trying to add any fule to the fire - I willl have to dig up that issue.

As long as I can get DTS-MA I am happy.

The May issued read that the PS3 couldn't decode dts-HD MA which as of the 2.3 firmware update is no longer true. However, in another comment it was the author's understanding that the PS3 lacks the hardware to support HBR and will not be changed via future firmware updates. This remains to be seen.

When the PS3 first came out there was a lot of speculation then about what it could or couldn't do. Much of that talk is moot now because the PS3 eventually added support for things like 1080p/24 and upscaling DVD's and so on. If the PS3 is indeed hardware limited then there shouldn't be any speculation about it, it either is or is not. In either case it shouldn't be a big mystery UNLESS Sony doesn't want to cannibalize future product offerings that could distinguish themselves from the PS3 with the inclusion of HBR streaming.

Keep in mind that the PS3 is still a loss leader for Sony. By suppressing HBR streaming within the PS3, it might give people the incentive to pay for a dedicated Blu-ray player and for Sony to see black.

[PewterTA]

No...because why would I buy a SONY Blu-Ray player, I'd go buy a BETTER player from someone else.

I've got a couple good sources in Sony that say, "wait and see what it can do, because so many people think there's things it can't..." That was a response I got to this very question. I have high hopes, not saying it will happen, but I see it as a decent possiblity.

[RebelMan]

No...because why would I buy a SONY Blu-Ray player?

Ahh... because they are less expensive? :B

I've got a couple good sources in Sony that say, "wait and see what it can do, because so many people think there's things it can't..." That was a response I got to this very question. I have high hopes, not saying it will happen, but I see it as a decent possiblity.

That's pretty much what I have been told too. The ONLY reason to supplant my PS3 with a dedicated player would be if it could do everything that the PS3 could do from features support to performance AND was quieter. the dedicated player has to be much quieter or forget it. The cooling fans on the back of the newer players have me a bit concerned.

[PewterTA]

Ha ha, my PS3 is silent...when compared to my Xbox 360. :lol:

[Hdale85]

Yes the 360 is louder then my PC that sits behind my computer... The PC was built for gaming I'm converting it to HTPC duty though.

[H.T.C]

ps3 has a new menu system when the internet is clicked on and its a nice touch,umm, if only flash would be upgraded.

[btf1980]

What is your source?

Home Theater mag for one.......

In spite of sporting an HDMI 1.3 output, the PS3 does not have the ability to output DD+ or TrueHD as native bitstreams; it converts both to multichannel PCM. My understanding is that lack of bitstream support is hardware level and will not be changed via firmware, ever.

http://hometheatermag.com/playstation/508sonyps3/index.html

Read the section with the header "Picture and Sound" in bold.

It has been reported by many people that this seems to be the case, and unless there is a new sku introduced that will be able to bitstream DTS HD MA and Dolby True HD, the current PS3's on the market won't be able to. They will only internally decode the hd audio codecs.

[RebelMan]

Home Theater mag for one.......

http://hometheatermag.com/playstation/508sonyps3/index.html

Read the section with the header "Picture and Sound" in bold.

It has been reported by many people that this seems to be the case, and unless there is a new sku introduced that will be able to bitstream DTS HD MA and Dolby True HD, the current PS3's on the market won't be able to. They will only internally decode the hd audio codecs.

I read the article and previously commented on it. The author's comments are still unsubstantiated.