Amps are on the way. Looking for possible setup opinions

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  • Bob Santos
    Senior Member
    • Mar 2001
    • 273

    Amps are on the way. Looking for possible setup opinions

    Well,, I made a decision on my new amplification dilema.
    I Have 2 Citation 7.1's on the way to me.
    I figure these are pretty safe decision. They can be had for a very good price, have repetedly received great reviews, and if I am unhappy with them I can pretty much sell them with little or no loss
    and keep trying to find the right amp for me.
    So I now have to make up my mind on how to use them.
    The way I see it I have three choices.

    1. Use the two amps in a 7.1 system.
    I channel for each speaker, and possibly use the 8th channel for a passive sub (SVS).

    2. Since I dont actually have rear surrounds currently, and am running 5.1 I can use one amp bridged to run my mains at 450w per channel, use two channels of the second amp bridged for my center, and use the last two channels to run my surrounds at 150w each.
    Keeping my powered sub. which will someday need to be replaced
    (Definitive PF12tl)

    3. set up similar to #2, but instead of using the amps bridged to the mains, and center use the seperate channels to biamp those speakers. I have read that there is a a very noticable improvement whenbiamping.
    Any one have expirience biamping?
    The major drawback to this way is I would have to buy new speaker cable, and more interconnects. ( I bet I know which one Doug thinks I should do )

    If I choose #2 or three I will have to purchase another amp when I add my rear surrounds, and go 7.1. At which time if I like these amps I will try to find a third to run the last two channels, and possibly a second zone in another room.

    Hoping you guy's can give me some of your expert advice
  • greynolds
    Moderator Emeritus
    • Dec 2000
    • 35

    #2
    Not sure if this is expert advice or not, but here goes :

    1) I'd go with this option.

    2) Bridging often brings undesirable side effects, such as the bridged amp not being able to handle a low impedence load.

    3) AFAIK, to properly biamp the speakers, you really need to do additional work (and buy more stuff):

    1) Remove/bypass the crossover in your speakers.

    2) Get an external crossover that goes between your preamp and amps.

    Otherwise, I don't feel that biamping has any advantage over biwiring (and I'm not convinced that biwiring give any real advantage either), as your amplifiers still have to amplify the entire frequency range, and the crossovers in your speakers are still in the loop.




    Geoffrey Reynolds
    Geoffrey Reynolds

    Comment

    • Lex
      Moderator Emeritus
      • Apr 2001
      • 27461

      #3
      Ahh, interesting Geof. I posted almost the exact information on bi-amping in Jeff's thread in "Home Theater" today . lol.

      Bob, I agree except to say, as long as your speakers are 8 ohms, you should be fine bridged on amps rated to 4 ohms per channel. However, 6 to 4 ohms becomes a REAL load. Because bi-amping effectively halves the load, so that 4 ohms becomes 2. Many centers are 6 ohm, so it would pay to double check that. That would put bi-amped at 3 ohms per channel, not good.

      Bi-amping without removing the internal crossover could help, as long as you use an external crossover. But for the most significant results, removal of internal speaker crossovers is required and use a high quality external crossover. But again, it wouldn't be prudent to use an inexpensive crossover, and risk introducing impurities to your signal path.

      I do 100% agree about bi-wiring's effects being debatable. Likely it can help on some systems. Just have to evaluate that for yourself...

      Lex
      Doug
      "I'm out there Jerry, and I'm loving every minute of it!" - Kramer

      Comment

      • Markj
        Senior Member
        • Aug 2000
        • 323

        #4
        I would agree with greynolds. I tried bi-amping and bi wiring in my system and did not notice any better sound. To bi-amp correctly I would think that an external cross over is needed. Bridging depends on the amp you are bridging as to the side affects you get.

        Comment

        • Markj
          Senior Member
          • Aug 2000
          • 323

          #5
          lex got his post in before me and him did a much more detailed post which I believe is sound advice.

          Comment

          • Bob Santos
            Senior Member
            • Mar 2001
            • 273

            #6
            Thanks for the advice guy's.
            Definitive is a bit vague with the ohm rating of thier speakers.
            My dealer that I bought them from said they are 6ohms.
            Each speaker has 6 drivers. My guess from what you guy's have said would be they amps would be driven too hard in bridge mode.
            On the bright side the Definitives are very easy to drive ,so 150watts should be plenty.

            Biamping seems to be a bit of an investment for a questionable gain. I dont think I am ready to invest the money to try it.

            I currently have my speakers bi-wired with Tara Labs RSC prime 1000 cables. I did notice a nice improvement, but since I upgraded from inexpensive 14guage speaker wire the improvement may have been the higher quality cable more than the bi wiring.

            Thanks again guys.

            Comment

            • SiliGoose
              Senior Member
              • Aug 2000
              • 942

              #7
              Bob,

              Nice speakers! Good to know I'm not the only BP30 owner at HTGuide.

              Can I ask how much you paid for the Citation amps? I'm looking to possibly jump into separates and need to start shopping used amps. I assume they're used...if not please correct me.




              -Sili
              www.campmurphy.net

              Comment

              • Bob Santos
                Senior Member
                • Mar 2001
                • 273

                #8
                Sili,,
                I love my BP 30's .

                I bought the amps off audiogon this week. One was $875, and the other was $940. Thats seems to be about the going rate for these used.
                You can buy them new B stock here http://www.jeffssoundvalues.com/
                For $1095 each.

                Comment

                • ThomasW
                  Moderator Emeritus
                  • Aug 2000
                  • 10934

                  #9
                  Bi-wiring, aka passive bi-amping offers only the ability to send more amplifier power to the speakers.

                  Active bi/tri-amping involves the complete removal of the passive XO from the signal path, and utilization of an external active XO. This always creates an improvement in perfromance since the passive XO components deteriorate the sound quality.

                  The passive XOs don't need to be physically removed from inside the speaker they just need to be bypassed.




                  theAudioWorx
                  Klone-Audio

                  IB subwoofer FAQ page


                  "Complicated equipment and light reflectors and various other items of hardware are enough, to my mind, to prevent the birdie from coming out." ...... Henri Cartier-Bresson

                  Comment

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