$3000 Challenge

[Brian Barnes]

Hi guys,

This is my first post so please take it easy on me. I have been reading the posts on the forum for the past week and I have really enjoyed the information exchange.

I have decided to upgrade my home entertainment system and I am soliciting any assistance that you guys are willing to provide. Note: Andrew Pratt has been very helpful to get me started with this project.

I am in the market to buy a TV, DVD Player, Receiver & Speakers. I am working with a few constraints. First is a Budget ($3000). Second, a wife. Well to clarify the second I should say a very picky wife (no big tower speakers, Must utilize existing entertainment cabinet). More or less she is telling me that I can have a great sounding system but she does not want people to walk into our living room and first think that we have decorated around the home theater system.

The room is 15' x 20'. Hardwood floors. 10' ceiling. Entertainment cabinet with 36" I.D. (I know this narrows my TV choices)

After doing some research and getting the help from people like Andrew Pratt here is what I am considering:

TV: Sony 30" Wide Screen HDTV model :KV30HS420 $999 (35 3/8" O.D.)
DVD player: Zenith DVB318 or LG equivalant $200
Receiver: Denon AVR 1804 $400
Speakers: Energy Encore $1000

Equipment Total: $2600 (plus cables / connectors , etc....) approx $3000

Please let me know what you think about these choices or provide any suggestions.

I am attaching a picture of the Room.

Thanks,

Brian

[Burke Strickland]

Brian -- Welcome to the HT Guide Forums! It's great to have you posting here and thanks for sharing your plans for putting together your new HT system. You are off to a good start by having a budget and planning to stick to it and the other constraints that you and your wife have agreed on. For $3,000, that looks like a pretty good system you're putting together.

It is realistic and forward thinking to leave a bit of room in your budget (as you have done) for cables, interconnects and accessories. That shows right there that you've done your homework and gotten good advice. (Since you say Andrew gave you help, that's a "given" anyway.)

As for the main components, I've recommended the Energy speakers to others myself, so what can I say but "good choice". :>) Someday, you'll probably want to upgrade again, but those are great way to assemble a reasonably priced good quality surround system. There are few other alternatives at that price range that would meet all your criteria and still sound good.

Denon makes fine products and, again, I've recommended various Denon models at different price levels to other folks. There are some other brands that could probably serve as well, (for instance I know guys who swear by their Harmon Kardon, Sherwood, Onkyo and Marantz receivers at that price level -- would add Outlaw but it has been discontinued) but at that price level, the Denon is about as good as you will find, so you might as well save yourself some search time and "just do it" -- buy the Denon.

Too bad you are constrained on TV size by the existing cabinet -- "size matters". :>) But I lived for several years with a 32 inch Sony and enjoyed movies on it with a complementary surround sound system before I moved up to front projection. Someday when you feel you can spend more, (and can persuade your wife that it won't disrupt the harmony of your room's decor too much) an entry level HD-compatible front projector, plus a retractable screen which perhaps could drop down in front of the entertainment center cabinet, would be a nice step up from the Sony you plan to buy. But within your current budget, the HD TV you plan to purchase fits nicely and will have an excellent, if somewhat smallish, picture.

The only area I might suggest checking out some other options is the DVD player. While there is certainly nothing wrong with going for the model you have listed (with either name on it) :>) at $200 or less there are a LOT of choices including some new "universal" models that will play not only DVD-Video and CDs but also SACD and DVD-Audio with surprisingly good results. I'm sure you've already read a lot about the merits or lack thereof regarding upscaling 480p to 1080i and so you may have already determined that this feature is more important than playing multiple-format discs, (or multiple discs, as in a changer), in which case, I'd say "go for it".

If you stay in this hobby long enough, you WILL upgrade someday -- but that day is further down the road when you start off with good gear like you have selected instead of a "home theater in a box" from places like Best Buy. All in all, it looks like you will have a system that should please you, your family -- and friends who are lucky enough to be invited over -- for some time to come.

Enjoy!

Burke

PS -- Hehe, your wife doesn't want people to think you folks decorated around the HT system? She'd LOVE my home theater (aka living room). :>) There's no doubt when people walk in and see the six foot tall flat panel main speakers and the fixed mount ten-foot-diagonal projection screen on the matte-black front wall and the shelves of DVDs, CDs and LPs that cover two thirds of a side wall what the main purpose of the room is. :>)

[aud19]

That loooks pretty good. The only things I'd likely change is to check out some Toshiba direct view sets as they tend to be more reasonably priced and still decent quality compared to Sony's. I'd also wait (August'ish) for the new base Denon DVD player (1910) which has an MSRP of $269 but would likely be of pretty excellent quality for the money and you could probably get for less than MSRP. If there's any money left from going with the less expensive Toshiba or if you can stretch the budget, see if you can pick up the Energy package without the sub and go with an SVS or HSU sub (or see if Andrew has time to build ya one ) It's definitely the weak point of the Energy setup.

Jason

[Andrew Pratt]

Part of the problem we're facing with this room is the ceiling fan will get in the way of a projector and there's a strong WAF issue to work around as well so SVS subs might not make the cut :W

[aud19]

Maybe if we cover it with a big doily :rofl:

Well still there has to be a better option for a moderately priced sub...

Jason

[Andrew Pratt]

There are but most will eat up too much budget..and there's nothing to say he couldn't upgrade at a later point should he feel the need to. Of course part of that depends largely on what price he ends up buying the gear at since if he can still find the Encores at the good guys for $750 he'll have plent left over to upgrade the sub, receiver or better yet the DVD play.

[aud19]

Maybe you could build him a nice looking one Andrew :P :B

Jason

[Brandon B]

Part of the problem we're facing with this room is the ceiling fan will get in the way of a projector and there's a strong WAF issue to work around as well so SVS subs might not make the cut :W

Notice the ceiling fan is on a drop shaft. Any chance it could be remounted up on the ceiling?

I have a ceiling fan (with a similar light fixture) between my PJ and screen, and only have 9' ceilings, and therefore table "mount" my PJ. My screen bottom and top height are 46"-100". He could probably still manage a ceiling mount if the fan moved up and his screen position was a little lower. Most pulldown screen mfrs will add extra black border mtl at the top to bring final screen height lower. Was that the only reason you guys had ruled out a PJ?

BB

[Brian Barnes]

Thanks for the feedback guys.

Burke, With respect to the DVD player. Please recommend which "Univeral" player you would recommend and give me the short on what classifies as a universal player. From what I have read, I figure I need a progressive scan DVD player. Does this mean that you cannot buy a changer type player with all the features that you refered to; 1080i, etc.... 1080i is utilizing the HDTV resolution correct?

Brandon, I am pretty sure that the wife would not go for raising the ceiling fan and placing a pull down screen above her entertainment cabinet. This is why I am limited to 36" max width. Thus the Sony HDTV wide screen (35 3/8")

Aud19, What features will the Denon DVD player have that I should wait until August? Also, are there any other DVD players that are currently available that you would recommend?

Gracious!

Brian B. (the other BB)

[sikoniko]

Thanks for the feedback guys.

Burke, With respect to the DVD player. Please recommend which "Univeral" player you would recommend and give me the short on what classifies as a universal player. From what I have read, I figure I need a progressive scan DVD player. Does this mean that you cannot buy a changer type player with all the features that you refered to; 1080i, etc.... 1080i is utilizing the HDTV resolution correct?

Aud19, What features will the Denon DVD player have that I should wait until August? Also, are there any other DVD players that are currently available that you would recommend?

Gracious!

Brian B. (the other BB)

Im neither of these people and don't know what is coming out in august, but what is available today, you would want the denon 2200.

Universal is that it doesn dvd, dvd-a, sacd. Keep in mind that you will need 5 analog cables to get 5.1 audio. Unless something has changed, it doesnt feed through coax or fiber like movies do.

[JPHIL]

denon

you should get the new Denon 2910 or 3910 in august, it will be one of the best in the market.

[aud19]

As for what the new Denon players will do, check out this thread.

Jason

[Kingdaddy]

Look at Orb and Anthony Gallo if you want small speakers that sound much bigger then they are. I prefer Gallo myself. I don’t thing DVD players make that much difference in that price range my self, so just get one that has the features you want. My idea on a Display device it to use a regular TV for casual viewing and a front projector DLP or LCD for movies and serious watching, with a retractable screen it’s very wife friendly, but that would probably blow your entire budget, $1400 for a projector (infocus 4805) and about 1K for a retractable screen. IMO spend all you can on the speakers and Receiver or separates, but the huge screen that a DLP projector can offer will make a world of difference in the overall theater experience

[Brian Barnes]

Jason,

I believe I will wait and get the Denon 1910 DVD player in August.

Also, you mentioned that I should get the encore speaker system less the Sub. Where can I find the SVS or HSU sub and how much should I pay for it. Also, can I buy the encore set-up less the sub?

Thanks,

Brian

[aud19]

Good choice on the DVD player :T

SVS Subwoofers

HSU Subwoofers

Get one of the models in your price range $400-$700'ish should give you a MUCH better sub than most "mainstream" speaker companies.

As for the last bit, it depends on your dealer and if they have any already orphaned systems etc. You could always try for 3-pairs of Encore 2's or 2 pairs plus a Encore 1 etc. Heck maybe they'll have some floor model or B-stock Xl's.... Look and ask around

Jason

[Brian Barnes]

Jason,

Can you explain how much difference would there be when comparing the SVS or the HSU vs. the Encore Sub? Keep in mind I don't have a "trained ear" so I don't know if the difference is that much noticable. Please explain. What is the downfall with the encore sub?

I need to find a speaker set-up for around $1000 ($1200 tops)

SVS model: PB1-ISD $600

HSU offers two styles: VTF and STF do you know what the differneces are?
VTF models start @ $500. STF models start @ $300

Thanks,

Brian

[aud19]

Energy makes great speakers but they make mediocre subs. For the same given money an HSU or SVS sub will have a better amp, driver and go lower while staying cleaner. Now obviously you can't afford one of their better subs but even their most affordable sub will out perform the Energy. Whatever you can afford from HSU or SVS will be fine, pick the one that looks nicest :B

Jason

[hamlyn]

HAHAHAH!!

Doily! that's great...

Great response...

[Brian Barnes]

Due to the size of my room and the fact that it is so open to other rooms in my house (i.e. the kithchen area which is also large and has tile floors, I am wondering if I should just step up and get a larger sub (12" 300 watt). I would hate to spend $400 on a sub only to find that it was under powered to support the area that I will have it in. Maybe I should consider spending more money! The HSU STF-3 seems like it would be really sweet. (12" 300 watt)

Jason, Do you have any experience with POLK speakers? I am going today to take a look at their front , center, and rear speakers. Also, are there any dealers for SVS and HSU or do you have to buy direct?

Thanks,

Brian

[aud19]

SVS, HSU are internet retailers, hence the better performance at lower prices. There are some good companies to check out in store, but they tend to cost more (Velodyne, Paradigm etc)

Polk makes really nice speakers with their own sound, some people love em, some don't. They do also tend to be harder to drive which might strain your Denon 1804.

I'm still voting for Energy as they make relatively affordable, quality speakers that are fairly easy to drive. But definitely give a few brands a listen. Athena, B&W, Energy, Kef, Paradigm, PSB, Polk, Totem.... all great speaker companies :T

As for the sub... I'd go with one of two things. One, spend all your speaker budget you have on just the 5 main speakers and get the best ones you can afford, add a good sub later after saving up. This will give you 9/10's movie performance and way better musical performance and is a better long term solution IMO. Two, if you absolutely need to have everything right now, yes you may want to consider stretching the budget and purchasing a good sub more in the $600-$900 range. Especially if you're going to end up with smaller speakers, you'll really need a good sub to fill in the +60hZ region as well as play adequatey low and clean. Though again, IMO, this isn't as long term of a solution as you'll likley feel the need to upgrade those speakers sooner rather than later.

Jason

[Brian Barnes]

I went to a local home audio dealer today ("Tweeter Store") and checked out a few items. I took the wife along to get her buy-in!

Components that I checked out:

Sub: POLK PSW505 (12" 300 watt) $500
Notes: This really sounded good compared to the others that they
had in the store. How would this rate compared to the HSU & SVS models?

Fronts: Boston DSI460 $450/pr (wall mount) what are your thoughts on wall mounted speakers? I actually thought it sounded much better than any of their satellite speakers (Although, their sats were crappy brands)

Rear: Boston DSI450 $300/pr (what are your thoughts on having the rear speakers a little under powered than the fronts? $150 less and I figured the rear channel output was more for effect. Please advise!

Center: Polk CSI13 $200 & CSI15 $400
There really seemed to be a major differnce in the two.

I knew that when I would go and listen to this stuff that I would be pulled toward the higher priced items when you listen to them side by side!

Summary:
Boston Fronts: DSI460 @ $450/pr
Boston Rears: DSI450 @ $300/pr
Polk Center: CSI15 @ $400
Polk Sub: PSW505 @ 500

Total Cost: $1650
Budget: $1000 (ouch!)

Well, next I am going to make a trip to a local Energy speaker dealer to listen to the encore speakers. I hope they sound as good or better than the POLKS/Boston's but are Cheaper. On one hand the wall/ceiling mounted speakers would be nice (out of the way) I am just not sure if this would be a compromise? Seems like the installation would be a nite-mare! I guess I will let my ears be the judge.


P.S. I also listned to some POLK tower speakers: (RT18B) They sounded really sweet but were $700/pr plus the wife would have no part of these due to the size.

[aud19]

I haven't heard that particular Polk sub but my educated guess would be that the HSU/SVS subs would still outperform it at a given dollar.

Do not mix speaker brands. Having a different brand centre speaker will mess up the cohesion of the front sound stage. Find one brand that you can do all 5 channels with. Yes it's OK to have stlightly lesser surrounds, the front soundstage is the most important but don't go too cheap or your rears won't sound like a unit with the front array. One size/model down should be fine even a line down should be OK. For example Energy XL's up front and Encore's for the rears.

As I said, you may be best off spending your full speaker budget on just speakers and save for a sub down the line. Don't forget if you're getting small speakers that aren't wall mounted you'll also need to purchase decent speaker stands which can bump the price closer to floor standers anyways. You can also tell the wife a small speaker on a stand takes up just as much room as a floor stander. Most modern speakers are pretty nice looking anyways and you don't have a budget for giant 2' wide concert speakers from JBL or something that are giant black boxes :lol: Show her some of the nicer looking variety and compare them directly with her to ones on stands...

Jason

[aud19]

Don't forget what I wrote in the other thread too:

If you're buying all/most of that stuff in one place you should be able to get a good 15% off sticker too. Ask for 20%, settle for 15%. (Take a calculator )

Jason

[Brian Barnes]

I was concerned that mixing the speakers might be a problem.

What are your thoughts about in-wall mounted speakers? The Boston's really sounded good but they did not cary a center speaker @ the store I visited yesterday so as a back up to the Energy speakers, I'm going to see if they carry a center speaker that would match instead of considering the mix match of boston and Polk.

Regarding Price. Once I make my decision on brand and Model I will beat them up on the price. For now I'm just collecting their retail price.

I am looking forward to listening to the Encore speakers today! I will let you know how they sounded to me.

Sub: I agree if I'm going to pay the same price for the POLK as I am the SVS or HSU, I should get the SVS or the HSU. After checking both the SVS and the HSU. I am leaning towards the HSU. Not sure why, just gutt I guess. Lord knows that it is not because I understand the differnces!

Thanks for the help Jason

Brian

[Jeff Aguilar]

Brian,

I used to have the Energy Take 5's and an SVS sub. Before I had the SVS, I had a rebadged DCM sub. The sub made a HUGE difference in movie and music presentation. That was the best money I had invested in my home theater. It was the biggest 'wow' factor. I think Energy makes a fantastic speaker. You would be happy with either the SVS sub or HSU. A couple other subs that get good reviews are the Outlaw sub and the Adire Rava sub. Both are very good subs too. I believe any of those 4 would be much better price/performace wise than store bought brands.

Of course the upgrade bug bit me and I have gone through many other speakers since the Take 5's. My wife still liked the 'looks' of the Take 5's the most because they were so small. Even though I have gone through 4 or 5 other series of speakers, I have not changed my subs around. They are going to stay in my system. I have not desire to want to change them.

Jeff Aguilar

[Andrew Pratt]

Jason's giving you good advice about not mixing up the centre from the fronts. You can get different sides/surrounds and it might not be too bad depending on how close they sound but the front MUST be matching as much as possible. I also agree with buying a very good subwoofer as you have a large room to fill and for movies a good center speaker and a strong subwoofer will make or break your enjoyment of the system. Also note that the subwoofer doesn't have to be from the same company as the other speakers since they'll all sound similar providing they're not being pushed beyond their limits (there's some differences in alignment sound but that's another topic all together!)

The Adire Rava would be a good purchase as well and might come in a colour that more suits your room then some of the others you've looked at so far. If you want to buy locally the one I'd buy is the Paradigm PW2200 or have one built for you (I can help in that regard if you're interested)

[Brian Barnes]

I have decided that I will not mix up the Speakers except for the sub.

Today I listend to the Energy Encore speakers. So far they are by far the best sounding sattelite speakers that I've heard. Although, The sub was pretty poor. I had him hook up another sub (velodyne 10") It sounded entirely better. How does Velodyne subs rate?

Andrew, The Paradigm PW2200 looks like it would be a great sub. Unfortunatly, it is $800. I originally had $1000 for my entire speaker budget. I have since bumped it up to $1500 and possibly a little bit more.

Jason, (aug19), has recommended that I get the HSU sub. Do you have any knowledge of these subs? Here are the specs of the STF-3 $399

Technical Specifications:
Woofer size: 10 inches
Bass extension +/- 2 dB: 25 Hz
Crossover: Continuously variable 30-90 Hz, defeatable, 24 dB/Oct
Phase switch: 0/180°
Finish: matte black
Dimensions: 19”(h)/14”(w)/18”(d)
Ship-weight: 44 lbs
120/240 V Capable: Switchable at the factory with internal jumper
Amplifier Power: 200 Watts
Warranty: 7 years on the woofer, 2 years on the electronics, parts and labor included
Factory direct pricing to the public: $399
Suggested retail price: $499

Thanks,

Brian B.

[Brian Barnes]

sorry, that was the HSU sub model: STF-2 not the STF-3

[goskers]

A friend that I work with is looking for some HT speakers but doesn't want to spend more than 800. I told him I would help find him a deal.

The HSU package looks decent for the price but does anyone know if you can get the Energy Encore minus the sub for a deal? I would like to add on a sub from somewhere else.

Thanks,

wasser

[Andrew Pratt]

I think you can get the Encores minus the subwoofer.

The HSU's get rave reviews so its likely a good purchase but IMO given that the Adire Rava is about the same money and uses a proven 12" (shiva) I'd likely cast my vote for that unit instead....more over I couldn't build the Rava for what they're selling it for which speaks volumes about how little markup they have on that unit.

Here's one review

If the budget allows the Dharma's or Daeva at $599 and would play a little deeper then the Rava (the Daeva sounds like a great unit likely based on the wonderful Tempest driver)

Adire Subwoofers

Another option would be the sub's from SVS like the 25-31PCi its $550.

But if i had to pick I'd say go for the Rava under $400 and see about the Daeva under $600 and if its still not available get the SVS unit.

[goskers]

What would be the better subs that I could build for around 300 total with amp. Maximum output capability is not a huge issue.

Thanks,
wasser

[Andrew Pratt]

The parts for the Rava total more then its asking price so I'd say if you're in that price point its hard to beat. If you really do need to stick under $300 there are options...but that would be better suited to a new thread in the DIY area :W

[aud19]

Brian, glad you like the Energy's Energy really does make great speakers for the price :T (Told ya there subs were nothing to write home about :lol: )

Velodyne is another really good sub company but again tend to be a bit more money. They're definitely one to consider on a larger budget as they make great subs but they're not cheap. Adire/HSU/SVS, those are probably the three I'd stick with based on your limited budget, best bang for the buck Andrew's made some good suggestions there. (I forgot to mention Adire earlier ops: )

Jason

[number17]

I have 2 quick questions ...

How important is the size of the subwoofer? I don't have a overly big room to fill (~ 200 sq ft) and I've heard smaller subwoofers (like 10") have quicker response and lower price if you're not especially into heavy heavy bass, which I'm not. Then again, when I look around it seems like most of the good amps are at least 12" in size ...

Another question is regarding the Encore speakers that BB is considering. From what I've heard, if you have the Encores 5.1 or 5.2 system, the best way to hook up the subwoofer is not to use the subwoofer output from your receiver. Instead, use either L or R front speaker output (BOTH L and R if you have 5.2) to drive the subwoofer (and the speakers as well). Turn off the subwoofer from the receiver (set it to "no subwoofer") and set the front speakers as "Large". That's what is recommended by Energy as well from what I've heard.

If you get the Energy Encores but go with some other subwoofers, would you still hook it up that way?

[Andrew Pratt]

How important is the size of the subwoofer? I don't have a overly big room to fill (~ 200 sq ft) and I've heard smaller subwoofers (like 10") have quicker response and lower price if you're not especially into heavy heavy bass, which I'm not. Then again, when I look around it seems like most of the good amps are at least 12" in size ...

Which is the faster more responsive car a light chevy sprint or a much heavier chevy corvette? The answer of course is the corvette since its got a much stronger motor...but my point is that its impossible to judge the sound quality of a sub based on the driver since there's a host of issues to consider such as alignment (sealed vs ported) the strength of the driver motor, its effiency, amplifer power, size of the box etc...Of course the saying that there's no replacement for displacement applies here to in that to create loud low bass you need to move a ton of air so you either have to have a small driver move a long way in and out or a larger driver moving less distance. Basically the sound you hear is the sum of its parts and its fairly easy to build a sub that will sound more musical then another that's built to extend really low. I guess you might be able to infer to some degree that in cheap subs the ones with larger drivers might (and its a stretch) be less musical if they don't use a driver with adequate motor strengh...but even then I'm not sure I'd put much faith in that comment given what I said before.

Another question is regarding the Encore speakers that BB is considering. From what I've heard, if you have the Encores 5.1 or 5.2 system, the best way to hook up the subwoofer is not to use the subwoofer output from your receiver. Instead, use either L or R front speaker output (BOTH L and R if you have 5.2) to drive the subwoofer (and the speakers as well). Turn off the subwoofer from the receiver (set it to "no subwoofer") and set the front speakers as "Large". That's what is recommended by Energy as well from what I've heard.

That's a viable option and one to consider if your receiver doens't do bass management properly...most now do give you the flexibility that you need in which case you can just ignor that configuration and set them up like any normal speaker. The issue at hand was that the small speakers couldn't play lower enough to reach the cross over point of the receiver so you'd end up with holes in the frequency response...that shouldn't be a problem though unless your receiver has a fixed crossover point of 80 hz...and even then it might be ok with the Encores (its the Take5's that really struggle to reach deep enough)

If you get the Energy Encores but go with some other subwoofers, would you still hook it up that way?

Yes you could if you wanted to as most subwoofers have high level inputs to allow for this type of connection though as i said above you likely won't have to worry about it.

[aud19]

Just want to re-emphasize... the size of driver has nothing to do with how "fast" or "musical" a sub is. As Andrew mentioned, it has to do with the quality of components and design, not size.

Jason

[Brian Barnes]

I got my first quote from the local Energy dealer today. Quoted the Encore, C Series and the Klipsch equivalant of the encore: What are your thoughts on Klipsch?

Dealer Quote:

Encore Package:
Energy Surround Sound Package: (1) Encore 1, (2) Pair
Encore 2, [
$925.00 (this is less sub)

Energy C Series pkg:
C-3 Blk Energy C3 Front C1 Rear C-C1 Center shielded 2-way
bookshelf speakers - Black Ash (pair)
$1053 (this is less sub)


Klipsch CINEMA 10 PKG W/ 10" SUB
$1390 (includes Klipsch sub, not sure if I can seperate this one)

10" velodyne sub (he pushes this line with the Energy speaker packages, he knows that the energy sub sucks!)
CHT-10
$350.00


Well, here was the breakdown; It seems to me that the C series package is the better deal than the encore.


Brian B.

[Andrew Pratt]

Hmm his prices on the Encores isn't in line with what I'd expect them to be...esp. considering a very quick search on google came up with this link http://www.audioexcellence.com/energyspeakers.html that's selling the components seperate that add's up to $100 cheaper then what he's offering

[Blazar]

At that budget level I would use the cheapest speaker wire and interconnects the world has to offer... at that price point, the wiring inside the gear will be so basic that to get outstanding interconnects would be serious overkill.

At that price point I would pour EVERY extra penny into the best speakers and amp you can possibly afford.

The interconnects are NOT EVEN NOTICABLE compared to how obvious weak speakers and amp will sound.

DVD players are obsolete in terms of video quality within 1 year. I wouldn't waste a penny more than necessary considering the size of TV you are considering.

Don't let the "experts" on this or any other board convince you otherwise. The amp and the speakers have the greatest longevity and impact, particulary if you like music.

[Blazar]

For someone on a budget, there is no substitute for buying gear on auction sites like ebay or audiogon...

You can save almost half or more of the retail price for speakers 1-3 years old.

[Brian Barnes]

It seems to me that the Connoisseur Series is the better value system. It should fill the room much better than the encore set-up and from a costs standpoint, there is not that much difference.

[aud19]

At those Prices get the C's!!!! 8O

I've got C-9's, C-5's and C-C3 centre at home and with the C-series, you will notice better interconnects not to say you need to go all out though.

Andrew keep in mind those are quoted prices, I'm sure Brian could still hagle

If you've got a couple hundred extra spend it on a better Velodyne... or one of the internet brands.

Jason

[Brian Barnes]

So you like the velodyne sub?

I have already informed the wife that I am going just a little bigger than the satellites! Gave her the "best value speech" Fortunatly, she went for it. Thus, I have decided on the Encore C series for the fronts, center, & rear. Now I need to nail down the sub. Would a 12" sub be overkill with the C series speakers?

What series of Velodyne subs would you consider?



thanks,

Brian

[Andrew Pratt]

No a 12 or 15 or 18 wouldn't be over kill providing its a quality sub With the $400 budget I think I'd get the Rava knowing that you're getting a well made unit with a high quality proven driver.

For what its worth I noticed that a local chain (A&B Sound) is selling the Encore speakers for $190cdn a pair which seems like a great price.

[aud19]

You may want to consider going down a line or two for the rears too to add to your sub budget / centre budget.

If you could swing the Energy C-C3 centre (instead of the C-C1), C-3 mains and XL or Encore rears for about the same money you'd be killer! :T The centre speaker is arguably the most important speaker for movies with so many soundtracks mixed heavily towards the centre. Next would be the mains, especially for music which the C-3's will be awesome for :T

FYI, the reason I'm stressing getting the best speakers as possible is that they're likely what you'll hang on to longest of all the stuff your buying. If you do it right the first time that is DVD players, receivers etc generally will be replaced every 3-5 years due to advancing disc formats, surround formats etc. The one thing that won't change is your speakers, if you buy good ones from the start anyway... If you get what I've recommended above even if you upgrade it could be adding two more C-3's rear and moving the XL's/Encores to rear centres for 7.1 or upgrading to c-5's for mains and moving the C-3's rearward etc. It's speakers you can build on when upgrading rather than having to replace and start from scratch.

As I've said Velodyne makes really good subs but unless you're getting a REALLY good deal (like 30-40% or more off sticker price) you'll get more sub for your money from Adire/HSU/SVS.

Jason