Entertainment Center / Rack

**chasw98** · 07 January 2007, 21:09 Sunday

Ryan:
I have been building racks for equipment for a long time (both for myself and in my former pro life). I tend to take the manufacturer's recommendations with a grain of salt. Kind of like an amp manufacturer saying that this unit cannot be used below 4 ohms yet it runs at 2 ohms just fine. You should also remember that we are dealing with quality, well built, units here. You can't buy these at Wal-mart.
That being said, if you look at the way the Outlaw and the Denon are built, you will notice no ventilation cutouts on the top or sides of the units. They are all in the base of the units. That means they are using convection to ventilate the internal components and as long as the heat can escape, they will be OK. The unit I currently have has very good ventilation on the sides and top internally. You will also notice blank rack panels in the space directly above the power amps for ventilation.
On page 4 of the Denon manual it states

"Slots and openings in the cabinet are provided for vantilation and to ensure reliable operation, etc., etc. The openings should never be blocked by placing the product on a bed, rug, sofa, or other similar surface. This product should not be placed in a built in installation such as a bookcase or rack unless proper ventilation is provided or the manufacturer's instructions have been adhered to".

Page 4 is the generic safety page that comes with all Denon equipment. That page also tells me how to ground my antenna.
Now, page 5 states:

"Avoid high temperatures. Allow for sufficient heat dispersion when installed on a rack."

That is all I can find in the manual as a far as installation notes. I have allowed for sufficient "heat dispersion" when installed.
I find it very odd that your HD DVR wants 4 inches of clearance on top. Does it have vents on the top of the unit? If it does, then you will need some clearance. But also see how warm it gets. For low level equipment a very slow moving fan in the rar of a cabinet will usually more than adequately pull any heat out that needs to be exhausted. You will never hear the fan either. Power amps are another story.
Your Belkin & Behringer equipment were meant to be rack mounted and don't rely on top or bottom ventilation so they can be stacked. Your CD player and Squeezebox are low level equipment and probably don't need top ventilation either and can be safely used if stacked using the original feet on the unit as spacing. Your Pionneer will produce heat and does need some ventilation. The SA 8300 I don't know, but would be willing to bet that it needs no more ventilation than a preamp or CD/DVD player or other low level piece of equipment.
With the open shelf design you are proposing all the Behringer & Belkin units could go on the bottom. (Buy a short piece of rack rail to bolt them together to make them look good). Next, put a shelf dedicated to the Pioneer with an inch of ventilation at the top. After that I see no reason that the CD player, Squeezebox, and HD DVR could not be stacked. For esthetics you might want another shelf in there. If you are really worried get a non contact infrared thermometer and sample reading of the unit itself at verious location and the ambient air around the units. I think you will find that heat off the low level units is not that much. My .02.

Chuck

**Ecir38** · 07 January 2007, 22:05 Sunday

I like the idea of encorporating rack rails into an entertainment center or audio rack. You could install the rails in the front and rear of the cabinet to mount diy wooden shelves above or below your already rackable equipment. The rear rails could also allow you to use rack mount fans, surge protectors, etc.

Here are a couple a links that use them in their furniture that can give you allot of ideas.
http://www.salamanderdesigns.com/ http://www.sanus.com/ http://www.middleatlantic.com/

If you prefer to have an open front the trim strips like chuck used make a nice finish. The unlimited options are only left to your imagination as you have noticed chuck's is outright beautiful. Whatever you come up with i can tell by the quality of work you do it will come out very nice. :T

**WillyD** · 07 January 2007, 22:19 Sunday

Our SA8300 is in a cabinet with only 2-3" of air space above it and it works fine.

**---k---** · 08 January 2007, 01:10 Monday

Chuck,
Yeah, I sort of took some of that with a grain of salt. I am more than willing to push the boundaries a little. Currently, I got about a inch between the top of my Pioneer receiver and the next shelf and no problems - though I really haven't pushed it hard hard since moving it over there. But, if I'm going to be getting more and more expensive gear, and I can with a little planning avoid these situations, I think it is better.

I'm for the most part not worried at all about the Behringer amps. I know they are meant to be rack mounted. I'm a little surprised about your comments on the Outlaw. When I look at the few photos on their website I can clearly see vents in the top of the 970 Processor and the 1070 receiver. And, I don't see any rear vents on their amps. Though of course, if you are just using it as a processor, how much heat does it generate? I guess I was expecting to hear you say that you got big fans mounted to the rear of your entertainment center.

I'll have to email them about their amps.

My SA8300 HD DVD does only have slots in the top for venting. It is basically a computer in there. The top doesn't feel hot, but I can feel mildly warm air coming out. I figured that 2" would probably be more than sufficient, and it looks like Willy has confirmed this. Thanks Willy.

If I shrink the receiver shelf down to 9" and the CD and DVR down to 4-5", that gains me enough room for another shelf. I'll move the power conditioner up to the middle, so I can reinforce the the shelf carrying 3 amps. I'll make this shelf 16" which should hold up to 4 Behringer amps or a sub and an Outlaw. I could probably gain more by giving up individual shelves and stacking the gear, but I think I'm sort of going for that high end look (Compromises with the wife, you know.)

I guess it comes down to whether (4) 5" high shelves will hold all the gear which may catch my eye to come. I don't want to be having to buy gear some day based on size. - I'll have to sketch more and see what I can come up with. Likely it will be gradually decreasing shelf heights; I like that look.

Maybe I should be asking what is the biggest CD player or whatever I should be wanting to upgrade to in the future and need to plan for.

Oh, and this thing is definitely going to have wheels. I think I'm going to try the ball casters

**---k---** · 08 January 2007, 01:24 Monday

These are interesting, and could solve problems if they arrive:

http://www.middleatlantic.com/rackac/cooling/qcool.htm

5/8" thick. No idea on the price.

**warnerwh** · 08 January 2007, 02:36 Monday

I use a double wide Salamander clone. The shelves are of course adjustable so as things change the distance between shelves can be adjusted. With an open rack you'll have no need for fans, a no no in my system.

The one I built used one sheet of finish plywood. Each sheet had been cut to 2'x4', giving your four double wide shelves where even 19" components fit. Six threaded bars were used. Strength is super good and it will hold 8 components or 6 components with a tv on top.

I used acorn nuts to cap the top of the threaded bars as well as the bottom for feet. Large washers and nuts to hold each shelf in place. I've had to adjust shelves a number of times over the last 4 years since I built it. Total cost was only about 150. Believe it or not when I built this I thought I was the first person to do it.

I'd walked into a B&M store and saw the design and off I was only to find I was about the millionth guy to do it.

Here's a pic:

Btw, this does not pass the WAF here. I suggested building one for our living room only nicer and it was stern NO with rolling eyes. I didn't ask but I suspect all the wiring can be seen. Of course a back could be added but you lose ventilation as well as easy access to the rear of the components.

**Licinius** · 08 January 2007, 12:39 Monday

I have nothing useful to add but I noticed you had a Squeezebox in there - they're freaking awesome - its practically my single music source now. =)

**---k---** · 08 January 2007, 14:53 Monday

Warner,
Nice rack (HeHe). I'm suprised or a little worried that doesn't meet WAF. I guess I'll be using a lot of wire loom and cable ties to clean mine up, and hopefully it willbe acceptable. Right now, the current rack isn't higher than the sofa, so you can't see the cables. Going higher might get to be a problem.... hummm.

Originally posted by Licinius

I have nothing useful to add but I noticed you had a Squeezebox in there - they're freaking awesome - its practically my single music source now. =)

I actually don't own one yet. I used to run a Linux Mythtv HTPC. But with the upgrade to HD television, it has rendered my three tuners worthless. I could keep the computer there, but I think it is time to move on to something smaller, power-efficent, and "just works". The Squeeze Box fits this desire well, and will probably get added in the next few month.

But yeah, I've heard lots of people say that the Squeeze has changed thier habits. Even Sterophile has given it awards. I know Red Wine Audio has modded one, not sure what they did, but maybe we need to get smart people like Thomas and Jon to buy one and start a thread on mods to it.

**warnerwh** · 09 January 2007, 02:39 Tuesday

Thanks Ryan. Hey, I like my rack, it has worked out perfectly for me.

Fortunately I have a dedicated listening room and it's the one room I have complete control in, something I don't have even in the garage.

However I've tried a couple of times with Cheryl to build one for our living room and it's a no go, no way, it ain't happening in MY living room. We will be getting an HDTV most likely this year and our current cabinet will not work, besides I told her I don't like it. That means "oh boy I get to buy another piece of furniture". Believe me you learn to keep your mouth shut. I once decided I needed a new listening chair in my room and we ended up with a whole set of custom furniture in the living room. I got one of the chairs that we had in the living room 8O . Will someone explain how that works to me, I'm still confused.

I don't know what you're going to do with wire looms as that will look not much better. Maybe you could have your wife make some nice wire looms with flowers or something:rofl:.

If you can get away with a double wide rack it will keep the height down. Mine is only about 30" high. When I built it I didn't need all that room but now that I'm biamping I sure do. Be sure to future proof you system. If you have an extra shelf don't worry, your wife will decorate it for you. :lol:

**---k---** · 09 January 2007, 10:06 Tuesday

I wish I could go double wide, but the corner where I would like to stick it isn't wide enough. My room just isn't big enough for everything that I would like to do, so I'm having to learn to compromise.

**jonathanb3478** · 09 January 2007, 10:44 Tuesday

I would like to build something based on the dual audio pier w/ adjustable bridge to accomodate different sized TVs (or screens) hung from the bottom of the bridge. Like this:

Image not available

I would try for curved outside edges on the audio piers, with each of those outside edges using half a 4'X8' sheet of Rosewood veneer to make a large, continuous grain panel. I have no illusions of being able to pull it off, currently. I will be making a few other furniture pieces first, and hope to be able to work up to a project like that.

**DougyD19** · 09 January 2007, 14:40 Tuesday

I wouldn't stack amps, that's asking for trouble down the road. Also, if you drill holes through the bottom boards, it will help convection more especially if the amps don't have high riser pegs. If your really going to be pushing the bass amp hard, I'd leave 6 inches on top for it to breath better. With only a 2inch area above my Onkyo, the heat really piled up and got real hot, but with 6 inches...it really cooled it down.

CD and DVD Players can be stacked on top of each other because they produce very little heat (you'll see them stacked all the time in PC's and airflow does not go around them).

Heat kills electronics over time.

**---k---** · 09 January 2007, 14:50 Tuesday

The Behringer amps are ment to be rack mounted and stacked with zero clearance top and bottom - there are only ventilation openings in the front and back. No reason not to stack them.

For an receiver or and amp like the Outlaw or something like that, I agree with you. Keep a good min. 2-4" free on top. I've seen some manufacturers ask for 8" free above.

**dlneubec** · 09 January 2007, 20:20 Tuesday

Here is what I'm planning to build. It will have my 52" LCD on it and also hold all my stereo/HT gear (which is not much at this time). Shelves are adjustable via slots every 3" in the back plane. They may end up glass, and are intended to be mostly cantilivered.

I may do the wood parts out of 3/4" Baltic Birch plywood and leave the edges visible.

**wmilas** · 09 January 2007, 20:54 Tuesday

Not to go off tangent, but I have a squeezebox. Its, most probably, the single best thing I've ever bought audio wise. I now have all my music stored in flac format on a server in the basement and navigate it with the squeezebox. I have 500+ CD's and this is MUCH easier to manage then hunting for CD's that keep getting placed in the racks out of order

Same lossless quality, digital transport, simplicity in navigation... its awsome

**---k---** · 17 February 2007, 15:15 Saturday

I wish I had pictures to update this thread, however recently it has just been too cold out in my garage to take on a woodworking project. But I wanted to update something, in case someone comes across this.

I finally received a Behringer A500 amp (backorder at PE for about 2 months.). And, this amp is not designed to be stacked tight, like many of us were saying above. It has vents on the top, and the manual asks that you keep about 1" of space on top. It also has little feet on the bottom approximately 3/4" tall, which takes the unit up to the published 4" height. As there are no vents on bottom, I think these feet can be taken off, to make the unit 3 3/4" high + 1" vent space on top and I'm back to the published 4" height.

So, no real harm. Just wanted to mention it to anyone thinking about buying this amp.

And by the way, I can't do an A/B of this amp versus just my Pioneer receiver, but I'm swearing that it I hear a very obvious difference. I'm very happy. Good deal for <$200. I just wish there was a 3 channel version also.

Entertainment Center / Rack

Entertainment Center / Rack

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