DVD upgrade advice

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  • Ducan
    Junior Member
    • Nov 2003
    • 8

    DVD upgrade advice

    I am currently trying to decide if I should replace my old Toshiba 2109 DVD player with a Denon 2900 or 2200. I am interested in whether there would be much video and audio improvement (other than DVD-A/SACD) with my current system (listed in profile).

    My current TV is a late model 36” Sony XBR and I do not intend to replace it for at least several years. It was the first XBR Wega model Sony released and I am almost certain that it cannot display a progressive scan image. Since I am limited to interlaced images would the picture difference between the players be very noticeable?

    Is there much of a sonic difference between DVD players with respect to playing DD/DTS movie tracks? It seems like the player is only being used as a transport and an upgrade wouldn’t make much of a difference. Am I mistaken?

    Any advice is greatly appreciated
  • John Holmes
    Moderator Emeritus
    • Aug 2000
    • 2703

    #2
    Hello Duncan. And welcome to the Guide!

    Since you are planning to stay interlaced for a bit yet, I really don't see spending the money on a new player.

    While I do believe that some players do a better job than others on audio and video, at this stage in the game with HD being the immediate future, and not needing the new audio formats for music, I would save my money.

    If you happen to stumble across something on the line of the Pioneer DV-05 (which has a fantastic interlace picture) used for a rock bottom price...then maybe??? However, if you are satisfied with the sound and picture of the Tosh 2109 (which has a very nice sharp picture) I see no need to mess with it.

    Just my opinion. 8)




    "I came here, to chew bubble gum and kickass. And I'm all out of bubble gum!!!" My DVD's
    "I have come here, to chew bubblegum and kickass. And I'm all out of bubblegum!!!"

    Comment

    • Andrew Pratt
      Moderator Emeritus
      • Aug 2000
      • 16507

      #3
      Personally with an interlaced picture the early generation toshiba's which the 2109 is were horrible. I owned one for about a month before selling it due to the jaggies. I'm not sure if your Wega can squeeze the 16:9 image like the newer ones can (I doubt it) but if it can ignor what I said above since it doens't apply but assuming it can't there are much better players for reducing the jaggie effect like the Pioneers, Sony's and Panasonics (Denon). You'd also gain better audio performance on CD's and of course DVD-A and SACD with the Denon's if that's important to you.




      Comment

      • John Holmes
        Moderator Emeritus
        • Aug 2000
        • 2703

        #4
        Personally with an interlaced picture the early generation toshiba's which the 2109 is were horrible. I owned one for about a month before selling it due to the jaggies.
        Hmmmm, I've never owned the 2109. I do own the Tosh SD-1200 and a Tosh SD-3780. I've owned the 1200 since they first hit the market a few of yrs ago. I have always used my DVD players in 16x9 mode and my tv does the "anaomprphic squeeze". Now the 1200 does exhibit the same jaggies that Andrew is speaking of. I'm not sure they are as bad to everyone's eye as they are to Andrew's. :LOL: They aren't as bad as some make them out to be in my opinion. Now on a larger tv set, they may be "horrible" but, on anything 36" and below, I don't think they are that bad. Something like the "chroma bug" it drives some people up the wall while other's can't see it.

        Toshiba's do present some of the most razor sharp images on the market. Which I happen to like. And was a big reason when I purchased a progressive scan model, I again went with Toshiba. And the interlace picture on the 3780 is jaggie free. I also own a Pioneer DVL-700 which is a laserdisc/DVD combination player. Now if you really want to see bad jaggies on an interlace picture!!!

        Duncan, IMO (after doing a ton of upgrades over the yrs) upgrading to a newer state-of-the-art piece when you have no intentions of upgrading the surrounding equipment isn't wise. This technology changes to fast in our hobby for that to make sense. If DVD-A or SACD are important to you, then by all means get a new player. If they are not. saving your money towards a current technology to go with your new tv is a good choice. Who knows what the new (primary) connection for DVD will be in two yrs. Look how much it has changed in the last 5 yrs if you doubt me.




        "I came here, to chew bubble gum and kickass. And I'm all out of bubble gum!!!" My DVD's
        "I have come here, to chew bubblegum and kickass. And I'm all out of bubblegum!!!"

        Comment

        • Andrew Pratt
          Moderator Emeritus
          • Aug 2000
          • 16507

          #5
          John if you are running them in 16:9 mode you won't see the downconversion jaggies that I'm speaking off. The toshiba's just drop every 4th line to reduce the image down to fit a 4:3 format which results in a horrible jaggied line when ever there's supposed to be a striaght line across the screen. If the TV can squeeze the image so you can set your DVD player to 16:9 it will be fine and in fact the sharp image from the toshiba may be even nicer then some of the softer Sony's for example...it all depends on your TV.




          Comment

          • Ducan
            Junior Member
            • Nov 2003
            • 8

            #6
            Thank you both for the responses,

            I am mostly looking to upgrade strictly for HT use. SACD and DVD-A would be a nice bonus but not something i must have now.

            How do I determine if my WEGA can squeeze the image? Do I just set the DVD player to 16:9 and see if the set displays a 16:9 image?

            Also, i could swap my father for an even older Pioneer model (winter 98/99) that still has component output. Would it still have the same problems?

            Comment

            • Andrew Pratt
              Moderator Emeritus
              • Aug 2000
              • 16507

              #7
              The wega should have a 16:9 mode in the menu somewhere if it supports that feature. Maybe post your model number and I'll look it up for you if your not sure where to look in the menu.

              The Pioneer would give you a smoother interlaced image then your toshiba but suffers from the chroma bug...those I'd take chroma issues over the jaggies




              Comment

              • Ducan
                Junior Member
                • Nov 2003
                • 8

                #8
                Andrew,

                The model number is KV36XBR200. I hunted though the menu and looked through the owners manuel and coudn't find it and am now fairly certain it doesnt have it. I think i may give the pioneer a shot and see if i can live with the croma bug issues. Would it be worth hunting aroud on the used market for a player than doesnt have these flaws? The Pioneer dv-05 souds appealing for under $200. Any suggestions?

                Thanks again

                Edit: The pioneer is an old DV-414

                Comment

                • John Holmes
                  Moderator Emeritus
                  • Aug 2000
                  • 2703

                  #9
                  I haven't watched anything in 4:3 (standard mode) on my 1200 in forever. So, I'm sure Andrew is correct. I assumed that you were watching things in widescreen ops:

                  As far as your tv doing the squeeze, you may only be able to get it via the service mode (this is very different per manufacture and is something that you must be very careful when doing or you could put your entire picture out of adjustment).

                  I have not seen the DV-414 in action for quite sometime. And even then it was at a showroom. I think that model had some lip sync issues but other than that was a solid unit. And a few people even had them modded to be very good cd players.

                  As far as the price on the DV-05, that is relative. To some getting one under 2 bills is a good deal. Others may consider it a waste because of it's age and technology. If it was me, $125 would be the right number. And I like (and own by the way ) a Pioneer Elite receiver. So it would look real nice on the rack with it.

                  I'll see if I can dig up some info on your model TV.




                  "I came here, to chew bubble gum and kickass. And I'm all out of bubble gum!!!" My DVD's
                  "I have come here, to chew bubblegum and kickass. And I'm all out of bubblegum!!!"

                  Comment

                  • Andrew Pratt
                    Moderator Emeritus
                    • Aug 2000
                    • 16507

                    #10
                    The 414 has some major lip sync issues as well as chroma bug problems but its definalty got a smoother image then the toshiba for 4:3 interlaced material. I wouldn't buy a DV-05 (or DV-09) no matter what the cost given that the newer chips used on even the cheapest players today surpass what was available back when these were current. For example the Denon 5 disc unit here with DCDi is only $130 eCost




                    Comment

                    • Ducan
                      Junior Member
                      • Nov 2003
                      • 8

                      #11
                      Thanks again for all the help. I think im going to try out the pioneer 414 for now and hope than some denon 2200's turn up on ecost.

                      Comment

                      • Sonnie Parker
                        • Jan 2002
                        • 2858

                        #12
                        Hello Ducan and welcome.

                        I'm not sure my opinion will be worth a whole lot as I'm not quite as critical of a listener as some others but since I owned a Toshiba 2109 and a 4700 and now have a Denon 2900, I'll throw in my 1 cent worth.

                        Keep in mind I'm about 85% movies and 15% music. That use to be more like 95/5 until the 2900 and DVD-A and SACD came along.

                        The 2109 satisfied me for DVD's but I couldn't handle it as far as CD's. It just couldn't compare to my CAL Icon Mk II. I then got the 4700 and the PQ didn't seem any better to me than the 2109. It could have been that it just wasn't significant enough for me to notice a difference. Again, for CD's it couldn't compare to my CAL. I never gave it a chance on DVD-A as I didn't have the pre/pro for it. Not long ago I decided to try out the 2900. From what I could gather doing research it seemed like the best bang for the buck universal player out there but I wasn't expecting the dramatic improvements I got. I finally saw a significant improvement in PQ that I sometimes doubted I'd ever really notice that much. I think the 2900 is actually better sounding than my CAL. Good enough that I'm about to put the CAL on the market and use only the 2900. As far as DVD-A and SACD... I'm in heaven. I couldn't ever get into 2-channel stereo like so many others talk about but I love what multi-channel music does for me. Overall I just never thought a DVD player could offer so many improvements for me since I have never been that picky or at least I don't think I'm picky.

                        I was satisfied with the Toshiba's but I am also glad I upgraded.






                        SONNIE

                        Cedar Creek Cinema

                        DVD Collection

                        BFD Comprehensive Setup Guide

                        Comment

                        • John Holmes
                          Moderator Emeritus
                          • Aug 2000
                          • 2703

                          #13
                          Sorry Ducan, I've been busy for the last couple of days.

                          I think this link will help you discover some things about your tv and doing the squeeze.






                          "I came here, to chew bubble gum and kickass. And I'm all out of bubble gum!!!" My DVD's
                          "I have come here, to chew bubblegum and kickass. And I'm all out of bubblegum!!!"

                          Comment

                          • rhb4321
                            Junior Member
                            • Dec 2003
                            • 3

                            #14
                            Duncan,
                            Just got done comparing the 2900 and 2200 side-by-side in my system, see my post in the previous 2200 vs 2900 thread.

                            Comment

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