Update me on FPTV's

[Trevor Schell]

Hi!!

It's been awhile since I have done any readings,research on FPTV or anything in HT for that matter.
Kinda feel that maybe my stuff is even obsolete at this point.

Anyways,,I am interested again, in possibley investing in a FPTV set-up. I am not up to par on the latest technologies, so I am not sure which route to take in the FPTV market.. Anything new since last year?
Any unit or model that is a good investment..good reveiws etc..

Update me!!

Thanks for any info!




Trevor
My HomeTheater S.E.
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[Andrew Pratt]

How's your light control in the HT now? What sort of screen size were you hoping to use?

[SayersWeb]

Front Projection ! :-)

I just installed a Panny PT-L300u in my home theater and couldn't be happier. The projector was $1995 and included a free Panny RP62 DVD player.

As Andrew says, you need to be able to control the light in the room. If that is not a problem then definitely consider a front projector.

Here are some screenshots I took yesterday:
PT-L300u Pictures

I recommend that anyone who is considering an HD display should at least consider a front projector.




Sayer - Musical Creations and Home Page

[Trevor Schell]

Good job on the Screenshots SayersWeb!,,
I was floored by the video game shots..Very Nice.

I definately have control of the light..
Also,,since this would be be for downstairs, it's basically in the dedicated area and would be only for movie watching..DVD etc..
The upstairs is rigged for tV watching , Video games,,etc..

My distance from screen to seating area would be 13 feet.
I wonder if that would be enough space to accomidate a 106" screen.?

Today I had a demo odf the Sharp XVZ10000U and was really impressed with the sharpness, detail and color quality. It bettered my expectations.
The screen used was a 106" screen with a motorized casing to lower and raise it.
The model of the screen was Perfect Vu # PVA169106

They called me back at home with a price quote...:E
Now I am thinking on it..




Trevor
My HomeTheater S.E.
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[Pat]

Trev, I only sit 11.5 feet away from my 106" screen...you should be fine at 13 feet.

You can check out my screen shots from my CRT projector on my webpage.




Pat's Page

[Trevor Schell]

Thanks PAt,,

It's good to know that 13' should be suitable.
I could go 13'-16' feet if I got rid of the RPTV and went right to the wall with the screen.
However, I plan to keep the RPTV. The screen would have to lower just in front of it.

Oh Yeah!!106" baby!!!!...They actually had a 92" screen ,but it just didn't have the same impact as the 106"..Just didn't seem right.




Trevor
My HomeTheater S.E.
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[Brandon B]

I also sit about 11' from a 106". Immersion is a must for me. I have the Sanyo PLV70 and a dalite hipower. Big bright picture is nice!

If you are looking at the Sharp, you should also look at the InFocus 7200. Alleged to be competive at lower price. Also, you might look into the NEC HT1000, which is supposed to have a beautiful picture at well under $5K.

I've seen the Sharp 9000 and it was quite nice. Definitely smoother than my Sanyo. The Z10000 should therefore look even nicer.

If you have the $10K or so for the Sharp and maybe a little more, you also really should consider the new Marantz. It gets a lot of positive reviews from owners and those who just see it demoed. If I were spending $11K, that is what I would go for (if my room didn't leak light like a, er, um light-leaking room thingy).

BB

[George Bellefontaine]

Trevor, is the price quote you got on the Sharp from a Canadian source ? If so, what is the Cdn pricing.

Here are a few other PJs ( if you are looking at DLP ) that are getting a lot of attention:

YAMAHA DPX 1000 ( Expensive in the $12 to $13 thousand US category)

Marantz ( also expensive in the $13 G US category

Infocus 7200 ( around 9 thousand and change US.)

All the above are WXGA projectors with the true 16:9 panels and all have the new TI chip.




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[Kevin P]

I saw the Infocus 7200 projected onto a Stewart Greyhawk screen on the HT cruise last November and I was impressed, that PJ put out a NICE picture. In fact, I'm installing one in a customer's house this weekend (hopefully, if their screen arrives in time), so I'll post my impressions.

I would recommend a grey screen like the Stewart Greyhawk to improve the blacks and contrast ratio with the digital projectors.

I installed a Studio Experience 20HD LCD PJ a while back (this is the same as the Sanyo PLV70) and it puts out a BRIGHT picture. This is the PJ to get if you don't have a totally dark room.

Light control isn't as critical with the digitals as it is with CRT, but of course you'll get the most theater-like experience if you can get the room totally dark.

KJP




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[Brandon B]

a Studio Experience 10HD LCD PJ a while back (this is the same as the Sanyo PLV70) . . .

KJP

Actually, 20HD (that's what I have, not a Sanyo badged one). I really like mine, and recommend it to anyone who's got light issues and a near $5k budget. Trevor's basement looks nice and dark though, so even for the same money I think he could do better with a DLP. I think Optoma actually has one of the new HD2 chips in their machine for about $5k.

BB

[Trevor Schell]

Brandon, You definately like immersion!.:T

I have no knowledge of the Infocus. The Marantz was reveiwed in the Oct issue of HomeTheater Magazine,however that was the 1rst generation of that model..The second generation is out I seen the advertisement for it in the Feb issue.
The Sharp is my first ever experience with FPTV..I have had nothing to compare it with except a Sony which didn't fair to well.

George,, The pricing was from Audio Warehouse here in town.
They want $15,000 CDN for the Sharp and $3,000 for the screen..$18,000 was the package price..Not sure what the list prices are.
They had a Yamaha unit too. I didn't really look at it or price it out
, I am not sure if it is the DPX1000 though..
I will need to take another trip back there with my digital camera and take some snaps..
Anyways,,My choices are limited as I would only buy locally and mainly for customer service and after purchase care. I have had too many unfortunate experiences with high priced electronics in the past to take any more risks..It has to be local.
I guess that's also why I am so interested in this right now, since it is the first time that a local dealership actually has them in house , on display and in action..

Looks like the Sharp would be my only choice with the limitations I put on myself..I just wonder if $15,000 is a fair competitive price or is it the list price?? or could I get some more knocked off..

Kevin,,I heard of the GreyHawk screen. I will ask if they can order form that manufacturer..




Trevor
My HomeTheater S.E.
Sonically Enhanced
C5

[Andrew Pratt]

Trevor $18K is a hell of a lot of money to schell out for a PJ and screen so make sure you've seen all the options...you can do FP for a lot less then that....or spend more if you really want to If you wanted to shave some of the cost off look at building your own screen. You have plenty of people in saskatoon that could help you (dustin or Bing for example) and its really not hard...of course since you need a roll down screen you're in a similar boat to me in that you'd have to do some sort of flip down screen (which has its advantages to the roll downs since they tend to wrinkle unless you go tab tensioned which is $$$$)

[Trevor Schell]

I measured the front of my room and 106" may not work..
92" would for sure ,but I would want 106"..
Regardless I would have to move my equipment rack and speakers , subs to relocate them for the screen to be postioned properly. There is not much room to the front and everything is pretty tight as it is right now..
The real opportunity , though for any screen is the jut that occurs in the roof where the screen would have to be mounted. I would have to put some sort of an extension structure across the roof so that the screen could mount evenly at the front..
It will be lots of work to do all of this.
I would not have the time now to do it..I will have to wait until my next week vacation.
In the meantime, I plan to take another trip to Audio Warehouse to have a closer look and inquire about screens.
I will do lots of research and also check if the pricing is competitive.
I have been interested in FPTV for a while now..but having a local dealer has now taken it several steps closer to reality for sure.
Glad I waited this long too since the technology has changed with the introduction for the H2 chip.


$18,000 may be alot:E , but not compared to what I have invested in my audio.
I figure that when I get into FPTV..I will do it the right way from the start. I could go less,,but knowing myself I would start upgrading at an astonishing rate..costing me more in the long run..
I learned that lesson from my upgrading my Audio..I think I invested enough to set up three systems..




Trevor
My HomeTheater S.E.
Sonically Enhanced
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[Andrew Pratt]

Trevor you could go with a perferated screen which would allow you to place your speakers behind the screen

[George Bellefontaine]

Andrew, perforated screens work ok with crt projectors, but some have claimed to see moire patterns with lcd and digital pjs. I would suggest viewing before buying this type of screen. For $3000. it sounds like Trevor was quoted on a Stewart. They are expensive little buggers.

Trevor, as for the price you got on the Sharp. I would say that is just about msrp. Awhile back I saw a thread at another site that said the Sharp ( when the Z10000 was the Z9000) could be had for under $13,000 in Toronto. I think your source can do better on the pricing of the Z10. But I know what you are saying about buying local. Projectors can be cranky and often have problems that need servicing when they are still quite new.

Another consideration has to be throw distance. The Sharp has a long throw lens, but others, like the Infocus 7200, has a short throw lens. So you will have to determine where the PJ is going to be placed in the room.




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[Trevor Schell]

For $3000. it sounds like Trevor was quoted on a Stewart. They are expensive little buggers.

Actually George,,The one they carry is the 106" Perfect Vu # PVA169106.




Trevor
My HomeTheater S.E.
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[Brandon B]

Brandon, You definately like immersion!.:T

Did I mention that's 106" wide - 120" diagonal.

Regarding microperf, problems with that are worst with LCD and with smaller screen sizes. If you are going 92" or bigger, you will liely be OK.

You really ought to go over to the AVS >$5K projector forum and spend a couple of weeks reading. There are at least a dozen owners of most of the projectors mentioned here, and a lot of guys with a lot of knowledge. There are some reviews from guys who just came back from CES also. For $18KCDN, you may be able to do better than the Sharp 10000 and that screen, although that is a pretty nice combo.

Here's a thread from one of the very knowledgeable and objective guys where he rates the top stuff he saw at CES:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=1736934#post1736934

There were also some recent threads on microperf if you do a search.

Projectorcentral.com is another place to get mfr specs and some fair reviews of machines, although these should be tempered, as not everyone agrees with the conclusions these guys arrive at sometimes.

BB

[George Bellefontaine]

Yeah, the trouble with Projector Central is that they recommend every Pj they review. But they are a good source for information on a given Pj, and their calculator to determine size of picture and distance to screen is great.

Brandon maybe right on perffed screens , but I would still want to see it to be sure.

As for AVS Forum, it's a good place to get info on PJs from their owners, but there are a lot of arrogant SOBs posting there.




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[Brandon B]

As for AVS Forum, it's a good place to get info on PJs from their owners, but there are a lot of arrogant SOBs posting there.

I agree, BUT there are at least a half dozen guys who have a great deal of knowledge and experience, and are also highly objective. Where they feel they are slanting their opinions towards their preferred technology or look, they say so quite clearly.

Trevor, if your interested in who those people are IMO, let me know and I can PM them to you so you don't have to spend a couple of months reading posts to get a handle on their characters. I can copy George so he can add his perspective.

BB

[Trevor Schell]

Thanks Brandon!,,
I copied and pasted that post to an E-mail
so that I can print it and analyze.

I would prefer to continue reading and conducting research.
I don't feel that I am knowledgable enough at this point to engage in direct conversation with some of the experts out there..
Thanks for the offer though,,really appreciated.

So 120" you say! :E,, You are more than immersed ,,me thinks!! ;x(




Trevor
My HomeTheater S.E.
Sonically Enhanced
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[George Bellefontaine]

Brandon, I believe I know the names to which your refer at AVS, and you are correct. It's the arrogant others who really piss me off. They seem to take delight in browbeating newbies,too.

Trevor, I agree you should proceed carefully. Take your time, my friend. That's a lot of money you are planning to put on the table. Whatever you go for has to be something that will satisfy you for years to come.




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[Trevor Schell]

Brandon,,I read that review from Mr.Wiggles (?? :roll: )
Actually printed it off then read it.
I can't beleive somebody has the nerve to compare 15 or so projectors using different sources and screens and actually give them a rating #..That blows me away.
In some cases this guy will go onto say that he didn't see a Hi-Def image as none was available etc..then go on to say that it should be good though and give the projector a score based on video quality..????
He is basing his reviews on assumption only..
I just don't understand where he is coming from..Very Confusing.. :? :tomato:




Trevor
My HomeTheater S.E.
Sonically Enhanced
C5

[Brandon B]

He is actually probably one of the guys who's opinions you can really count on. H'e pretty universally respected over there. There was a reply about the one PJ where he didn't get it to see the better set up unit. Someone who did said his review was off-base because of that as they saw it and were greatly impressed.

He has not only seen, but tweaked and evaluated through extensive testing, a lot of major PJs, so when he says he thinks one will perform a certain way with HD based on its video only performance, he is making that statement based on his experience with PJs with similar performance, or even that mfr's previous iteration of that model line. I would tend to believe him.

Now that doesn't mean run out any buy one the PJs he reviews based solely on his comments in that thread, and he would certainly tell you the same thing if you asked him. But if you want good objective data, you can believe what he says within the parameters he puts forth.

He is definitely not one of the ASOBs George referred to IMO.

BB

P.S. I might get to buy about 20 of the 3 chip DLP Panasonics he reviews, and I don't get to take even one home. I love/hate my job.

[George Bellefontaine]

Brandon's correct. Mr Wiggles is one of the guys over there I do respect.




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[DavidY]

FWIW, a Panasonic dealer in Ontario noted at another forum that the Panasonic PT-AE300 (PT-L300U) will likely be available in Canada sometime in March or more likely April 2003. This is the hot PJ at the moment...alot of bang for the buck. List is suppose to be CDN$4K. The AE-300 compares very well with the Sony HS10 (list is approx. CDN$6K)....even beats the HS10 in the Projector Central review.

Personally, I will be considering the AE-300, Sanyo Z1 and the Infocus X1.

Dave

[George Bellefontaine]

Sony's Canadian pricing of projectors is way out of line. I believe the Panasonic is streeting around $2500. US and the Sony HS 10 is closer to $3000. US, so the Panasonic at $4000 CDN is pretty fair, while the Sony at $6000. CDN is utter nonsense.

If you are mostly watching dvds, the Panasonic is a great buy. Though it is said to produce a pretty good HD picture, it doesn't have the resolution to project 720p, whereas the HS 10 does. But that extra resolution is definitely not worth $2000 CDN more.




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[Trevor Schell]

So many choices.
I had seen a Sony at Audio Warehouse as well and it was no comparison to the Sharp unit.




Trevor
My HomeTheater S.E.
Sonically Enhanced
C5

[George Bellefontaine]

Trevor, the real problem with viewing PJs at various dealers is that they rarely have the PJs set up properly. Out of the box, any of the Sonys look fairly good but far from what they can do. They need to be tweaked. I understand that the Sharps look pretty darn good out of the box , but for tweakers they don't allow you to do much in the user menu so they probably do a better job at factory set-up.




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