power requirements?

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  • Andrew Pratt
    Moderator Emeritus
    • Aug 2000
    • 16507

    power requirements?

    I am in the process of installing a dedicated HT in my basement and am nearly ready to install the power for the gear rack. I plan on running some lines directly from the breaker box to the gear rack so the gear isn't sharing power with anything else in the house. The question I have is what do I really need as far as power? Will dual 15 amp curcuits do or do I really need 20 amp curcuits? I will have my Musical Fidelity and HK 5800 power amps on one curcuit and the pre amp and sources on the other line. TV will be on another curcuit as well seperate from the others I think.

    My musical fidelity amp has a sticker on the back indicating a 500 watt / 5 amp draw (its a class A amp) and the other amp is a HK5800. Sound and Vission had this to say about the HK amp

    "The amp sucked a lot of current from the wall at full cry, causing a drop of no less than 9 volts (from a 118-volt draw at idle) when it was fully clipping into multiple 4-ohm loads on the test bench"

    Does that help determine my needs for the amps?




  • David Meek
    Moderator Emeritus
    • Aug 2000
    • 8938

    #2
    Andrew,

    Go with the 20 amp circuits, just to give you a more flexible and affordable upgrade path. If you go with 15's and you need 20's in the future, it's much harder to retrofit than to build-in initially. There is a bit higher cost associated with the 20 amp route due to heavier guage wire, outlets, breakers, etc., but IMO it's well worth the extra. It's certainly cheaper than re-doing it later!

    It doesn't sound like you'll be pulling too much current with your existing set-up, but if you choose the 20-amp route make sure your power conditioner/protector is 20-amp capable!

    Also, isolation-wise, it's a good idea to put the breakers for your HT equipment on the opposite half of the panel from the HT room lighting/wall circuit(s)




    David - HTGuide flunky
    Our "Theater"
    Our DVDs on DVD Tracker

    .

    David - Trigger-happy HTGuide Admin

    Comment

    • Andrew Pratt
      Moderator Emeritus
      • Aug 2000
      • 16507

      #3
      thanks david that's good to know re the oppostie side of the panel.




      Comment

      • Lex
        Moderator Emeritus
        • Apr 2001
        • 27461

        #4
        I will throw this suggestion out too. Remember, more people die from 110 current every year than any other power source. When in doubt, CALL A PRO. DIY electricity isn't the best idea that ever came up the pike...

        Electricity can be a "shocking experience". No pun intended. I once stuck a matte knife into a 110 plug, at the side of the box, that was wet from wallpaper over it. I barely got broke loose from it. Scared the bajeepers out of me!

        Goodluck Andrew,
        Lex
        Doug
        "I'm out there Jerry, and I'm loving every minute of it!" - Kramer

        Comment

        • Andrew Pratt
          Moderator Emeritus
          • Aug 2000
          • 16507

          #5
          I totally agree I'm a DIYer at heart but I don't play with power lines. If I'm working around lines I always kill the breaker for that line..often the whole house just to be sure. For these runs though I've got a pro into help, I don't mind working with existing lines but adding runs into a breaker box isn't for amatures




          Comment

          • P-Dub
            Office Moderator
            • Aug 2000
            • 6766

            #6
            This is a great topic as I had some questions about wiring and breaker boxes.

            I'm in an apartment and we had a new breaker box installed not too long ago, replace one with those screwin fuses. So I was thinking of just replacing one of those breakers with a higher amped version. But correct me if I'm wrong, but now this sounds like a bad idea, as I need to ensure the wiring can handle 20A. If not I need to rewire, which is not an option.




            Paul

            There are three kinds of people in this world; those that can count, and those that can't.
            Paul

            There are three kinds of people in this world; those that can count, and those that can't.

            Comment

            • David Meek
              Moderator Emeritus
              • Aug 2000
              • 8938

              #7
              Originally posted by Paul
              need to ensure the wiring can handle 20A.


              Absolutely Paul! Not doing that is an electrical fire waiting to happen - the wiring or breaker will overheat and reach combustion point or short out and sparks will do the job.

              On a related note - if you don't have a circuit tester and are determined to do this, always test a 110 line with the back of your finger. The current will cause your muscles to contract AWAY from the line, getting you out of harms way. Testing with the palm-side will cause the finger to curl around the wire - this is bad, children! Now, repeat after me: Don't ever touch a higher current line - you'll be dead! Pay the electrician the money if you want breaker box work done, okay?




              David - HTGuide flunky
              Our "Theater"
              Our DVDs on DVD Tracker

              .

              David - Trigger-happy HTGuide Admin

              Comment

              • Pat
                Super Senior Member
                • Aug 2000
                • 1637

                #8
                Andrew,
                Here is another point of view

                I have my entire rack on one 15A dedicated circuit.
                I've never tripped the breaker...knock on wood
                Believe me, I have had it cranked up a few times... 8O

                My projector is all by itself on it's own 15A circuit.

                Do you need to go 20A, I don't think so.
                If it isn't going to break the bank for the difference to upgrade 15 to 20 then I way go for it.




                Pat's Page
                Pat's Page

                Comment

                • Andrew Pratt
                  Moderator Emeritus
                  • Aug 2000
                  • 16507

                  #9
                  I had all my gear on one 15A circuit in the apartment as well and never tripped the breaker either...makes me wonder how much we really need the 20A lines...that said since I'm going to run two lines to the gear rack anyway I might as well cover all the bases and go 20A.

                  As far as simply swapping out fuses that's not going to give you more current. A 20 amp circuit requires at least a 12 guage cable for the cable lenghts were talking about here so unless your cables are already 12 guage it won't help and in fact since the fuse won't blow early enough you are risking an electrical fire should a problem in the line develope.




                  Comment

                  • Brandon B
                    Super Senior Member
                    • Jun 2001
                    • 2193

                    #10
                    A 20 amp breaker costs a couple bucks more than a 15. A roll of 12 gauge romex costs $5-10 more than 14 gauge. A 20 amp rated outlet costs a couple bucks more.

                    If you could buy an amp with 33% more power that was otherwise identical for $15, would you do it. I think so. Why on earth would you put in a 15 amp breaker instead?

                    This is coming from someone who went to the absurd lengths of adding a 30 amp and three 20 amp circuits to my AV setup. (sub amp, 2 woofer amps, 3 other amps, and everything else, in case you are wondering). I doubt I'll ever draw more than 30 amps total, but I know there's no limiting factor in my power supply.

                    BB

                    Comment

                    • Kevin P
                      Member
                      • Aug 2000
                      • 10809

                      #11
                      If you're running new circuits definitely go for the 20 amp. You may not need that much current, but the heavier wires will cause less voltage drop when amps are turned on, etc. Just like we all like heavy gauge speaker wires better.

                      I think 15 amp circuits are going the way of the dodo. Most new construction uses all 20 amp I think.

                      KJP




                      Official Computer Geek and Techno-Wiz Guru of HTGuide - Visit Tower of Power
                      My HT Site

                      Comment

                      • alpina
                        Senior Member
                        • Nov 2005
                        • 276

                        #12
                        guys,

                        little confused by all this.

                        15 or 20amp suggestion sounds great but if the amp has a 10amp plug doesnt that mean that it will have as a maximum 10amp fuses. therefore, arent you putting the amp at risk if something goes wrong if you are running a 20amp breaker?

                        cheers,

                        julie
                        My setup so far: Pioneer PDP-506HD, Sony DST-HD500, Bryston SP2, Bryston 6B SST, Bryston 4B SST, Pioneer DV-989AViS, CD Player TBC, Belkin PF60, B&W 804s, HTM3S, B&W 705s, B&W ASW750, Logitech Harmony 880

                        Comment

                        • Karma
                          Senior Member
                          • Nov 2005
                          • 801

                          #13
                          HI Julie,
                          No, that's not the way it works. If your amp is fused for 10 amps it will blow at 10 amps. The AC power fuse is the first component the current hits other than the wire in the amp.

                          The advantage of using a higher current service is AC voltage regulation. Ohm's law is the ruler here. As more current is drawn from the service the AC voltage drops. This is due to the power wires which can be viewed as a long resistor. The more current drawn the larger the voltage drop.

                          A 15 amp service uses smaller gauge wire than a 20 amp service. The smaller wire has higher resistance and, thus, more voltage drop for any given current draw.

                          I want to second David's warnings.You could cause death or fire or both. IF YOU ARE NOT A LICENSED ELECTRICIAN DO NOT FOOL AROUND WITH YOUR WIRING.

                          Sparky

                          Comment

                          • alpina
                            Senior Member
                            • Nov 2005
                            • 276

                            #14
                            hi karma,

                            firstly let me say that we would not do any electrical work ourselves. this is a fields of experts only. just looking for advice so that we know what to tell our sparky

                            ok, so let me understand the whole 20amp thing. i understand that it is a thicker gauge wire with a bigger breaker but is it the same size powerpoint as a 15amp - ie, larger earth? assuming it is or isn't for that matter, how does one go about plugging the 10amp plug into the power point?

                            given our setup, would you recommend a dedicated 10, 15 or 20amp dbl powerpoint? should we just worry about getting dedicated power to our amp and just plug the rest through normal housing system - we have allocated 2 dbl points already for our av but they are connected to the 10amp house circuit.

                            whats the sheilding like on a 15 or 20amp circuit - is it more likely to create interference in our system?

                            cheers,

                            julie
                            My setup so far: Pioneer PDP-506HD, Sony DST-HD500, Bryston SP2, Bryston 6B SST, Bryston 4B SST, Pioneer DV-989AViS, CD Player TBC, Belkin PF60, B&W 804s, HTM3S, B&W 705s, B&W ASW750, Logitech Harmony 880

                            Comment

                            • brac
                              Member
                              • Aug 2005
                              • 90

                              #15
                              I mush give my .02 on this one. As an electrician for 25 years, I will say 15amps will handel the load but it is almost always #14 wire. as you approch 15 amps you may get voltage drop(this is bad) or course if you are only running 10 feet of wire not an issue but on longer runs I suggest using Dedicated #12 runs, weather you use a 15 or 20amp breaker. Also most electricans arent filimar with Hi-Fi/HT. Just plugging in piece of equiptment with a transformer can give you "noise" on the line and effect anything else you plug in. Also the power you get from the power company may not be as clean as you would think. So you should do all you can not to add to that trouble. My total equip load is less than 15amps but I ran 2 dedicated 20amp #12 runs.
                              Brac

                              Comment

                              • Audiophiliac
                                Senior Member
                                • Apr 2006
                                • 346

                                #16
                                Run 20 at least. I have a client with a Rotel 1068/1066/ Krell 400x1, Velodyne DD12, 5 Martin Logan speakers, a 55" CRT, and when he turns it up, the lights dim. Not good.

                                If I were doing it from scratch like you are, I would run a 20 amp to the rack, a separate 20 for your amp(s), and a 15 to the display device (projector or otherwise). Its cheap to run it now. Its expensive or impossible in some cases to run it later.

                                Comment

                                • alpina
                                  Senior Member
                                  • Nov 2005
                                  • 276

                                  #17
                                  will speak to sparky re 15amp vs 20amp in 12 gauge

                                  so how about the actual powerpoint - do 15amp and 20amp circuits come in double powerpoints? will my 10amp plugs fit in them? and finally, is it possible to run appropriately rated distribution boards off the powerpoints (not that im going to as i only want to connect my two main amps to them but thought id ask the question).

                                  thanks,

                                  julie
                                  My setup so far: Pioneer PDP-506HD, Sony DST-HD500, Bryston SP2, Bryston 6B SST, Bryston 4B SST, Pioneer DV-989AViS, CD Player TBC, Belkin PF60, B&W 804s, HTM3S, B&W 705s, B&W ASW750, Logitech Harmony 880

                                  Comment

                                  • Karma
                                    Senior Member
                                    • Nov 2005
                                    • 801

                                    #18
                                    HI Julie,
                                    Whew, lots of good questions. I must tell you that I am not an electrician but I do have a fair amount of knowledge due to my job as an electrical safety officer. I know the US Electrical Code pretty well. Here's the problem. The electrical codes vary from country to country and even within a given country. You should base none of your decisions on information obtained on this forum. You need specific expert knowledge.

                                    Electrical Safety is only part of my job. The rest of my time is spent as an Electronics Engineer. Electrical code and theory is a very complicated subject and I don't have enough time to learn the subject as well as I should. I know enough to tell you that you must obtain the services of local crafts people who know your local electrical codes. This is not an option. I realize you are smart enough to know this but I need to say it anyway. This forum cannot take any responsibility for information you use. Nor can I. There is an easy way out. Talk to your local crafts people. They will guide you right.

                                    Generally, use the largest practical service with the largest practical wire gauge for your HT system. 20 amps should work well. Use 12 guage wire if it will fit into the various fixtures. It should. Try to keep the wire runs as short as possible. Work with your electrician on these requirements.

                                    Dedicate the service to your system. Plug all of your equipment into the same service. If you split the equipment between two services, you will most likely experience a hum from your speakers which is known as a ground loop. There are several strategies to rid yourself of ground loop noise but the best solution is to simply avoid it in the first place. Tell your electrician to set it up that way. They will be familiar with the problem. If they are not, find another electrician.

                                    You should have no problems with plugs and sockets. A 20 amp wall recepticle in the US has only minor differences from a 15 amp recepticle and will not in any way keep you from using standard plugs. It will work fine at least in the US.

                                    If your system is like mine, I need many wall outlets. I use plug strips as extender cords. These are rated at 15 amps each. This is not the best solution but it is the only one I have available to me. However, the equipment that draws the most current (power amps and TV sets) should avoid the plug strips and be plugged directly into the wall. If I was starting from scratch, I would have the electricians provide sufficient wall sockets for all of my equipment and a few extra. With my gadget loving tendencies, it's almost impossible for me to have too many sockets.

                                    Julie, you are asking the right questions. I wish more folks would do the same. But don't depend on us for your specific answers. Talk to your locals who are the experts.

                                    Sparky

                                    Comment

                                    • alpina
                                      Senior Member
                                      • Nov 2005
                                      • 276

                                      #19
                                      hi karma,

                                      thanks for the information

                                      firstly, let me say again that there is no way that we would do any electrical works ourselves. this job is strictly for tradespeople only and if anyone unqualified decides to do it themselves they are mad!

                                      secondly, i appreciate what you and fellow forumites have said for it has increased my level of knowledge for when i speak to my sparky. having said this, i take all advice i find on all forums as being unqualified yet informative, if that makes sense?

                                      now here is what i have been able to find out today:

                                      as you know, austalia runs on 240 volts with a 3 prong outlet.

                                      * in an 10amp circuit, all prongs are the same size and comes in single, double and quadruple power point configuration.

                                      * in an 15amp circuit, the earth prong is larger than the other 2 and it comes in single or double power point configuration.

                                      * in an 20amp circuit, all prongs are the same size as the 15amp earth prong and it only comes in a single power point configuration.

                                      initially, i thought a 10amp plug could go into a 15 or 20amp powerpoint but my electrical wholesaler told me that this is incorrect as the small prongs on the plug would not make proper contact. This will be a big drama for me as i have no intention of changing the plugs on the gear and voiding warranties. I forgot to ask if you could fit a 10amp powerpoint to a 15 or 20amp circuit. if yes, perhaps i could run just one 15 or 20amp circuit and run a few double power points off it. i think that would be ideal though perhaps not possible

                                      hoping to learn a lot more from now till friday when electrician comes over to fit aircon and hopefully av gear power.

                                      cheers,

                                      julie
                                      My setup so far: Pioneer PDP-506HD, Sony DST-HD500, Bryston SP2, Bryston 6B SST, Bryston 4B SST, Pioneer DV-989AViS, CD Player TBC, Belkin PF60, B&W 804s, HTM3S, B&W 705s, B&W ASW750, Logitech Harmony 880

                                      Comment

                                      • alpina
                                        Senior Member
                                        • Nov 2005
                                        • 276

                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by alpina
                                        initially, i thought a 10amp plug could go into a 15 or 20amp powerpoint but my electrical wholesaler told me that this is incorrect as the small prongs on the plug would not make proper contact.
                                        seems this information is incorrect. spoke to the manafacturer and a 10amp plug will fit and work properly in both a 15 or 20 amp powerpoint.

                                        also, been told that if i go 20amp, i can only have a single powerpoint per circuit but that its ok to plug a "quality" 10 amp distribution board to it as its likely that it was designed to pull currents much greater than 20amps combined.


                                        julie
                                        My setup so far: Pioneer PDP-506HD, Sony DST-HD500, Bryston SP2, Bryston 6B SST, Bryston 4B SST, Pioneer DV-989AViS, CD Player TBC, Belkin PF60, B&W 804s, HTM3S, B&W 705s, B&W ASW750, Logitech Harmony 880

                                        Comment

                                        • whoaru99
                                          Senior Member
                                          • Jul 2004
                                          • 638

                                          #21
                                          Originally posted by alpina
                                          seems this information is incorrect. spoke to the manafacturer and a 10amp plug will fit and work properly in both a 15 or 20 amp powerpoint.

                                          also, been told that if i go 20amp, i can only have a single powerpoint per circuit but that its ok to plug a "quality" 10 amp distribution board to it as its likely that it was designed to pull currents much greater than 20amps combined.


                                          julie
                                          Since you have 240 volt circuits in Australia, your 10 amp circuit is essentially the same capacity as our 120 volt, 20 amp circuit - both have 2400 watts of power capacity.

                                          Unless you have some really powerful amps/gear, a 10 amp, 240 volt circuit will go pretty far.
                                          There are some things which are impossible to know, but it is impossible to know which things these are. :scratchhead:

                                          ----JAFFE'S PRECEPT

                                          Comment

                                          • whoaru99
                                            Senior Member
                                            • Jul 2004
                                            • 638

                                            #22
                                            I ran 1480 watts (RMS output) worth of power amps, plus pre/pro, plus source gear from one 15A circuit for quite some time. Never one during playback did it trip the breaker. The only time the breaker did trip was when I got the not-so-brilliant idea to plug the amps into a power strip so I could turn on all four at once. Well, the 15A circuit could not handle so much in-rush surge thus the breaker did trip in that instance. As long as I sequenced the amp's power on, no problems.

                                            That said, I have since put in two dedicated 20A circuits (from the same phase); one for the power amps and one for the pre/pro and source gear. I still sequence the amp power up though...

                                            The only difference in cost is probably a buck or two for each outlet and a few bucks on the cable. The breakers were the same price for 15A or 20A when I did it.

                                            Actually, I thought I had once heard (read?) you could use 12ga wire, 20A breakers, but stay with the normal 15A outlets and still be OK by code. Perhaps that's not true, or perhaps code has changed. Really, there is no need for a 20A outlet unless you have a 20A plug to go in it. When you think about it, there should not be a safety issue since a 20A plug will not fit into a 15A outlet.

                                            Clearly though, you need to do what ever Code and generally accepted practices dictate.
                                            There are some things which are impossible to know, but it is impossible to know which things these are. :scratchhead:

                                            ----JAFFE'S PRECEPT

                                            Comment

                                            • alpina
                                              Senior Member
                                              • Nov 2005
                                              • 276

                                              #23
                                              ok, here is what im thinking .....

                                              20amp circuit to do all my rack - should be plenty. as it will be a single power point, i saw a rack style power distribution board (6 powerpoints) that i want to plug into it - its a 10amp plug but manafacturer tells me it perfectly ok and done my many.

                                              so what do i have to tell my sparky to do re the 20amp circuit other than use 12 gauge wire (hope he doesn't laugh at me and say "what did you think i was going to use?" ) is there a special type of circuit breaker that he should use for AV gear, perhaps with surge protectors, etc?

                                              behind my rack i also have 2 dbl power points which i can use for lighting and ventilation.

                                              for what its worth, adding up all the power requirements of my rack at maximum load add up to approx 6400 watts. not sure what that means exactly though

                                              so what does everyone think?

                                              julie
                                              Last edited by alpina; 24 April 2006, 21:25 Monday.
                                              My setup so far: Pioneer PDP-506HD, Sony DST-HD500, Bryston SP2, Bryston 6B SST, Bryston 4B SST, Pioneer DV-989AViS, CD Player TBC, Belkin PF60, B&W 804s, HTM3S, B&W 705s, B&W ASW750, Logitech Harmony 880

                                              Comment

                                              • alpina
                                                Senior Member
                                                • Nov 2005
                                                • 276

                                                #24
                                                what do you guys think of this belkin surge protector/conditioner?



                                                looks like a nice piece of equipment which would probably give us peace of mind.

                                                i have read in the past that it would not be a good idea to connect byrston amps directly into devices like this as they will restrict power - is this the case? and if so, what would be the best solution?

                                                cheers,

                                                julie
                                                Last edited by alpina; 26 April 2006, 17:54 Wednesday.
                                                My setup so far: Pioneer PDP-506HD, Sony DST-HD500, Bryston SP2, Bryston 6B SST, Bryston 4B SST, Pioneer DV-989AViS, CD Player TBC, Belkin PF60, B&W 804s, HTM3S, B&W 705s, B&W ASW750, Logitech Harmony 880

                                                Comment

                                                • alpina
                                                  Senior Member
                                                  • Nov 2005
                                                  • 276

                                                  #25
                                                  ok,

                                                  running out of time to decide as electrician is coming tomorrow.

                                                  thinking i will now go with 2 * 15amp circuits as it will allow me to run double powerpoints. will wire them with 20amp cabling just to be safe and to future proof it

                                                  on one circuit, i will put the 2 amps connected directly to power.

                                                  on the other circuit, i will use the belkin power conditioner for all my other gear. there will be a spare powerpoint on this circuit.

                                                  no real point going 20amp as the conditioner is rated at 15 amps anyway.

                                                  in addition, i will also have a 10amp double powerpoint (existing) down there for lighting etc

                                                  what does everyone think?

                                                  julie
                                                  My setup so far: Pioneer PDP-506HD, Sony DST-HD500, Bryston SP2, Bryston 6B SST, Bryston 4B SST, Pioneer DV-989AViS, CD Player TBC, Belkin PF60, B&W 804s, HTM3S, B&W 705s, B&W ASW750, Logitech Harmony 880

                                                  Comment

                                                  • David Meek
                                                    Moderator Emeritus
                                                    • Aug 2000
                                                    • 8938

                                                    #26
                                                    Two amplifiers on a single 15-amp circuit? You really might want to consider making that one a 20-amp circuit. The cost will change minimally to do that now, but will be MUCH higher if you want to retrofit it.
                                                    .

                                                    David - Trigger-happy HTGuide Admin

                                                    Comment

                                                    • autio
                                                      Senior Member
                                                      • Mar 2005
                                                      • 118

                                                      #27
                                                      david,

                                                      I think because she is in austrailia they use 230 volts. which changes the way you get to the amount of watts needed (ohms law).

                                                      Comment

                                                      • Race Car Driver
                                                        Super Senior Member
                                                        • Mar 2005
                                                        • 1537

                                                        #28
                                                        You all can take it for what its worth, but last night I picked up a monster power center 3600MKII.

                                                        On the back I noticed the "high current" ports, labled amp, and spare.

                                                        Well the display on this can be toggled between volts and amps, so as a test, i plugged in my cd player, dvd player, 120 wattx5 reciever, 200x2 aragon amp, phone, and charger for my harmony remote. Basicly eveything I had on the rack.
                                                        I turned everything on, and at normal volume, the display on the monster said 1.7amps or so, pretty loud it would get up to 2.4, with it REALLY cranked, louded then i would ever have it with me sitting there listening, it showed about 3.1 amps being pulled through the Monster. Just some food for thought.

                                                        (Note, my house is older, still has fuses will be upgraded this summer with a few 20 amp breakers.)
                                                        B&W

                                                        Comment

                                                        • brac
                                                          Member
                                                          • Aug 2005
                                                          • 90

                                                          #29
                                                          Chris,
                                                          I would guess that is far from a true reading, my 7 x 150 nameplate rating says it draws 10 amps. You have more amps than I do. I would guess it would be much higher if measured with a real amp meter...
                                                          Brac

                                                          Comment

                                                          • alpina
                                                            Senior Member
                                                            • Nov 2005
                                                            • 276

                                                            #30
                                                            ok,

                                                            will ask electrician to put in two 20amps and see how i go. gotta say at the moment he thinks i'm crazy!

                                                            i think our 240v vs your 110v must make a big difference for my electrician doe's think i will draw anywhere near this sort of power.

                                                            julie
                                                            My setup so far: Pioneer PDP-506HD, Sony DST-HD500, Bryston SP2, Bryston 6B SST, Bryston 4B SST, Pioneer DV-989AViS, CD Player TBC, Belkin PF60, B&W 804s, HTM3S, B&W 705s, B&W ASW750, Logitech Harmony 880

                                                            Comment

                                                            • JDH
                                                              Senior Member
                                                              • Sep 2004
                                                              • 270

                                                              #31
                                                              Originally posted by alpina
                                                              ok,

                                                              will ask electrician to put in two 20amps and see how i go. gotta say at the moment he thinks i'm crazy!

                                                              i think our 240v vs your 110v must make a big difference for my electrician doe's think i will draw anywhere near this sort of power.

                                                              julie

                                                              Julie,

                                                              Your electrician is correct, however you will atleast provide a clean circuit rather than having your fridge, microwave etc hanging off the same circuit. I will be renovating my house soon and will be aiming at putting a dedicated circuit in too.
                                                              Bits of HT & 2ch Stuff: Rotel, Pro-ject, Oppo, Bel Canto, Elektra Audio, Benchmark, Panasonic, DSPeaker, Epson, Slim Devices, Belkin, Philips Pronto, Harmony, URC, Sennheisser, AKG, HTPC under development, KEF, Whatmough, Definitive Technology & Pardigm Signiture speakers

                                                              Comment

                                                              • chrispy35
                                                                Senior Member
                                                                • Feb 2004
                                                                • 198

                                                                #32
                                                                Originally posted by brac
                                                                Chris,
                                                                I would guess that is far from a true reading, my 7 x 150 nameplate rating says it draws 10 amps. You have more amps than I do. I would guess it would be much higher if measured with a real amp meter...
                                                                Brac
                                                                Hey Brac,

                                                                Is that the fuse rating or the max current rating of the amp?

                                                                I recall a similar thread about power consumption where some people used an in-line power measurement device (from Canadian Tire I think) and everyone reported similar results (i.e. actual current drawn was far far less than expected and nowhere near the rated max printed on the back of their amps).

                                                                Chris P.

                                                                Comment

                                                                • Glen B
                                                                  Super Senior Member
                                                                  • Jul 2004
                                                                  • 1106

                                                                  #33
                                                                  Originally posted by brac
                                                                  Chris,
                                                                  I would guess that is far from a true reading, my 7 x 150 nameplate rating says it draws 10 amps. You have more amps than I do. I would guess it would be much higher if measured with a real amp meter...
                                                                  Brac
                                                                  That 10 amp nameplate rating is an absolute maximum current draw with the amp driven to its limits. In real-world use with music and movies, the actual current draw is only a fraction of that maximum. I have made similar measurements with a Fluke RMS reading meter and concur with the moderate current draw at normal listening levels.


                                                                  Comment

                                                                  • alpina
                                                                    Senior Member
                                                                    • Nov 2005
                                                                    • 276

                                                                    #34
                                                                    what a day - electrician wasn't able to finish and will have to come back next week.

                                                                    aircon in but not powered

                                                                    half of the speaker wiring is done - he couldn't understand why i want to run 2 pairs of speaker cables per speaker

                                                                    understood less why i need 2 20amp fuses for audio when all my products have 10amp plugs and that there was no way i needed that much power - he just laughed and said "its your money" - lol

                                                                    you guys are mad!! and largely responsible for my insane actions

                                                                    will let you know how i go

                                                                    julie
                                                                    My setup so far: Pioneer PDP-506HD, Sony DST-HD500, Bryston SP2, Bryston 6B SST, Bryston 4B SST, Pioneer DV-989AViS, CD Player TBC, Belkin PF60, B&W 804s, HTM3S, B&W 705s, B&W ASW750, Logitech Harmony 880

                                                                    Comment

                                                                    • Race Car Driver
                                                                      Super Senior Member
                                                                      • Mar 2005
                                                                      • 1537

                                                                      #35
                                                                      Originally posted by brac
                                                                      Chris,
                                                                      I would guess that is far from a true reading, my 7 x 150 nameplate rating says it draws 10 amps. You have more amps than I do. I would guess it would be much higher if measured with a real amp meter...
                                                                      Brac
                                                                      I dont see how it cant be close to a true reading...
                                                                      I had my reciever turned up with the amp running the 802s in 2ch stereo.
                                                                      Turn up the volume on the reciever, watch the amperage increase on front plate.
                                                                      So, if I were to take the rating of the amp,
                                                                      200wattsx2=400watts maxed/120 volts=3.33 amps..
                                                                      Thats if the amp was maxed, which it wasnt. And the Cd player cant draw much at all, dvd player was on, and reciever was turned up, but the amp wasnt powering any speakers. So a reading of 3.x on the monster would have to be close I would think.

                                                                      If you take 7x150=1050watts/120volts=8.75 amps at full power, with a 10 amp fuse for protection.

                                                                      The thing is, if it all my equipment would actually draw alot more then that, it would pop the 15a fuse on the monster. Not gonna happen, not with that amp anyways.

                                                                      I just re did the rack today, added my PC, Xbox, and PS2, along with the phone, CD, DVD, reciever, and amp all plugged into the monster.

                                                                      Im in no way saying 20 amp circuits are not a good idea.
                                                                      I totally understand that the thicker wire used in that circuit is the main advantage. And I will be adding at least two 20 amp outlets when I pull out the older then dirt fuse box this summer.

                                                                      It was just an observation I made, and I dont see how the power being drawn through the monster, from the single cable that is plugged into the wall, how it cant be close to accurate, all it does is take the current that is being pulled through it and displays it.

                                                                      Julie, bummer they didnt finish today, but just think.. it will be done soon! It took the electricians 2 full days to do my co workers place.
                                                                      B&W

                                                                      Comment

                                                                      • peterS
                                                                        Super Senior Member
                                                                        • Dec 2005
                                                                        • 1038

                                                                        #36
                                                                        Originally posted by brac
                                                                        Chris,
                                                                        I would guess that is far from a true reading, my 7 x 150 nameplate rating says it draws 10 amps. You have more amps than I do. I would guess it would be much higher if measured with a real amp meter...
                                                                        Brac
                                                                        you are wrong
                                                                        fuse rating is far from real life current draw
                                                                        i have only seen one set up draw more than 10A, usualy it sat around 6 or 7
                                                                        that had a powered sub reciever and plasma hooked up
                                                                        the fuse rating of those three devices is over 25A

                                                                        Comment

                                                                        • Karma
                                                                          Senior Member
                                                                          • Nov 2005
                                                                          • 801

                                                                          #37
                                                                          HI peter,
                                                                          Most equipment are overfused to some degree. It depends a lot on the type of fuse that is used and the design of the power supply. When the piece is initially turned on, the the current draw is many times higher than normal operation as the power supply filter capacitors charge from zero charge to full charge. That's why the lights dim when a big amp is first turned on. This charge time is quite short but could blow a fast blow fuse if it is too small.

                                                                          There are several ways around this. The most obvious method is to use a larger fuse value that will withstand the initial charge current. This is common. Some power supplies use a soft turn on circuit that reduces the peak initial charging current but takes longer to charge the capacitors. This allows use of a smaller fast blow fuse but protects it during turn on. It is the best method. The other method is to use a slow blow fuse that takes longer to blow. They resist blowing by simply being slower than the the peak charging current. All of these methods are used. It is the best reason to use the same type fuse as the original one provided by the manufacturer. The fuse is actually an important part of the design.

                                                                          All of this means the fuse rating is not an accurate indication of the actual current draw during normal operation. It is, however, a rough indicator. Just don't take it too seriously.

                                                                          Sparky

                                                                          Comment

                                                                          • David Meek
                                                                            Moderator Emeritus
                                                                            • Aug 2000
                                                                            • 8938

                                                                            #38
                                                                            Originally posted by autio
                                                                            I think because she is in austrailia they use 230 volts. which changes the way you get to the amount of watts needed (ohms law).
                                                                            Missed that. Sorry. :uhoh:
                                                                            .

                                                                            David - Trigger-happy HTGuide Admin

                                                                            Comment

                                                                            • Race Car Driver
                                                                              Super Senior Member
                                                                              • Mar 2005
                                                                              • 1537

                                                                              #39
                                                                              Originally posted by Karma
                                                                              HI peter,
                                                                              Most equipment are overfused to some degree. It depends a lot on the type of fuse that is used and the design of the power supply. When the piece is initially turned on, the the current draw is many times higher than normal operation as the power supply filter capacitors charge from zero charge to full charge. That's why the lights dim when a big amp is first turned on. This charge time is quite short but could blow a fast blow fuse if it is too small.

                                                                              There are several ways around this. The most obvious method is to use a larger fuse value that will withstand the initial charge current. This is common. Some power supplies use a soft turn on circuit that reduces the peak initial charging current but takes longer to charge the capacitors. This allows use of a smaller fast blow fuse but protects it during turn on. It is the best method. The other method is to use a slow blow fuse that takes longer to blow. They resist blowing by simply being slower than the the peak charging current. All of these methods are used. It is the best reason to use the same type fuse as the original one provided by the manufacturer. The fuse is actually an important part of the design.

                                                                              All of this means the fuse rating is not an accurate indication of the actual current draw during normal operation. It is, however, a rough indicator. Just don't take it too seriously.

                                                                              Sparky
                                                                              Yup, my lights would dim when i turn on the amp, and i noticed when i turned it on this morning the monster jumped to 2.8ish amps for a brief second, even though the only thing on at that moment was the amp.
                                                                              But running at regular volume, it would be well below 2 amps.
                                                                              B&W

                                                                              Comment

                                                                              • alpina
                                                                                Senior Member
                                                                                • Nov 2005
                                                                                • 276

                                                                                #40
                                                                                this is a real long shot but you guys have me in a spin about all the different gauges for 15/20amp wiring - anyone know what to deal with SRF 3025V meter rated cabling is?

                                                                                cheers,

                                                                                julie
                                                                                My setup so far: Pioneer PDP-506HD, Sony DST-HD500, Bryston SP2, Bryston 6B SST, Bryston 4B SST, Pioneer DV-989AViS, CD Player TBC, Belkin PF60, B&W 804s, HTM3S, B&W 705s, B&W ASW750, Logitech Harmony 880

                                                                                Comment

                                                                                • alpina
                                                                                  Senior Member
                                                                                  • Nov 2005
                                                                                  • 276

                                                                                  #41
                                                                                  2 20amp circuits now in and speaker cables all wired behind walls

                                                                                  don't you love progress?

                                                                                  julie
                                                                                  My setup so far: Pioneer PDP-506HD, Sony DST-HD500, Bryston SP2, Bryston 6B SST, Bryston 4B SST, Pioneer DV-989AViS, CD Player TBC, Belkin PF60, B&W 804s, HTM3S, B&W 705s, B&W ASW750, Logitech Harmony 880

                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                  • Race Car Driver
                                                                                    Super Senior Member
                                                                                    • Mar 2005
                                                                                    • 1537

                                                                                    #42
                                                                                    Progress is key..
                                                                                    B&W

                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                    • Robb Mac
                                                                                      Junior Member
                                                                                      • May 2006
                                                                                      • 9

                                                                                      #43
                                                                                      Dedicated AC power lines..

                                                                                      Maybe I missed something but I don't remember reading about the final
                                                                                      sonic differences in your dedicated AC power lines.

                                                                                      I purchased Cryo treated 12/2 Romex and ran four runs to my two
                                                                                      systems.
                                                                                      The sonic difference was very Big!
                                                                                      This was a major improvement to my two systems.

                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                      • alpina
                                                                                        Senior Member
                                                                                        • Nov 2005
                                                                                        • 276

                                                                                        #44
                                                                                        cant comment on sonic difference yet as its a work in progress

                                                                                        haven't connected anything to it yet

                                                                                        will definitely let you know when its all done

                                                                                        julie
                                                                                        My setup so far: Pioneer PDP-506HD, Sony DST-HD500, Bryston SP2, Bryston 6B SST, Bryston 4B SST, Pioneer DV-989AViS, CD Player TBC, Belkin PF60, B&W 804s, HTM3S, B&W 705s, B&W ASW750, Logitech Harmony 880

                                                                                        Comment

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