What Rotel Amp & CD combo to run B&W 703's?

[Lewisimo]

Hi there, i'm a new UK user, great forum!

I've been browsing this forum quite a bit recently, and decided to 'join up' as I need a bit of advice and help with my current system. I recently picked up some B&W 703's and am trying to find out what the best amp and cd combo are without spending an absolute fortune (as we know is so easy to do with hifi!) :P

The brief history is this:

Started out with the following kit:

Arcam A85 Integrated Amp
Arcam CD62 CD Player
Mission M74 Speakers

Quite a humble system compared to most, but I found the arcam great to run the mission speakers - clear sound, lot's of bass and midrange, generally an excellent system which pleased me for many years. Now recently I purchased the B&W's, and while I knew they took some driving, I was confident that the Arcam could deal with them nicely.

Once I had listed to this set up for a while I was very happy with the performance from the speakers - so clear and lots of midrange. The only gripe I had was that they didn't seem to pack the 'bass puch' of the Missions (which they should as they have 2 bass drivers per speaker!) I put it down to the fact that the B&W's required more power. So I then bought an Arcam P85 Power Amp to run with the A85 (they are desgined to go together) and bi-amped the 703's, so the P85 drives the bass and the A85 drives the midrange and treble. Again the sound is almost perfect but for the bass. It's hard to explain, there is bass there but its almost as if it's running through an equalizer and the bass is tweaked right down.

I notice lots of guys on here are pairing the B&W's with Rotel gear, so I am doing so research prior to forking out and buying more gear! Ideally I would like a 'one make system', so all rotel if possible, and I would like there to be only two pieces of equipment (so an amp & cd player) to keep everything all nice and minimal. If I must have a power amp I will, but i'm trying to keep things neat (you see what i'm getting at!)

So what do you guys think, what do you recommend? Budget has to be taken into consideration, ideally roughly around £1000 each on the amp, cd player, and power amp (so that's about $1500 or so I think).


Here is a snap of my current setup (although it doesn't show the Arcam P85 - that was only added recently!)




All help much appreciated anyway!

Cheers,
Lewis

[miner]

For $1500 you should be able to get (new) RC-1070 pre, RB-1070 amp and a RCD-1072 CDP. I have onwed all of these and was happy with them until the upgrade bug bit hard.

[Lewisimo]

Ok thanks, so how do they fair against the competition? Do you guys know much about the arcam FMJ range at all?

[Audio_ElF]

I don't think in the current range there is an integrted amp that would do justice to the 703s of significantly improve (maybe change but not improve) on your Arcam. It's possible there will be something in the expanded 15 series that's expected to be revealed soon. Currently you would have to look at a separate pre and power amp along with CD player.

Is there anything specific you feel is making or just wanting an all round improvement? You said about bass: but is that the quality or re quantity of the bass - from your photo you don't have ideal speaker placement so maybe worth trying some rearangemebt before spending money on the problem.

If you want alternative suggestions not rotel maybe wtth asking in the B&W forum next door. As always make sure you audition, preferably at home, before you buy.

[NMG]

For $1500 you should be able to get (new) RC-1070 pre, RB-1070 amp and a RCD-1072 CDP. I have onwed all of these and was happy with them until the upgrade bug bit hard.

I agree 100% although if you can swing it, I'd suggest an RB1080 in place of the RB1070.

Also, you'll probably find that the 703's are not "boomy", at least not in my experience. Accurate yes. Quick yes. Chest thumping bass, no. If you want that, perhaps you should consider a sub. Allot will depend on your musical tastes and even your room configuration/size as well. The 703's are quite refined but on material with lots of low bass, they do benefit from some sub assistance IMHO.

Good luck!

[hifiguymi]

Just to clarify, did you say £1000.00 per component or for all three? It looks like you said per component. If that is the case you could probably get the best two channel stuff Rotel has to offer.

Eric

[Opus007]

Are the 703's new? Did you allow for break in. When I got my 683's I remember that the low end just seemed lacking but after a break in period of a good 100 hours it really opened up the lower end.

[Iggurk]

I would recomend you to test ICE Power on 703, that sound amazing to me.

My 1095 is far far behind these new amps.

I'm building my own ICE Power amp after testing a few brands :-)

Yves

[bnieman]

I love the way my 703s sound with Rotel's Class D (ICE) power amps. I have the RMB-1085 5-channel amp but you would only need their two channel amp. The bass is fast, clear, and smooth as can be (without a sub of course)

Adding the ASW-750 subwoofer was a decision I never looked back on either... but that gets costly as well and they take up a lot of space...

[joetama]

To be completely honest I've always found Mission to have lots more forward bass than B&W. Maybe it just has been the models I've heard but I recall that being true. Anyway, my honest recommendation is to get a subwoofer. While you might get some improvement by switching out amplifier it sounds like you are seeking considerable improvement. I've just never found B&W speakers to be super deep thumping speakers. (Which is one of the reasons I like them.) Also, you run the risk of screwing up the mid/high frequency balance you already have and like by radically changing out electronics.

[Lewisimo]

Ok thanks for the replies guys - appreciate your advice!

I phoned a hifi store near me yesterday and had a chat about it, and while they recommended the change to the Rotel gear as the best option, they also suggested a cd player change, and a look at the placement of my speakers (as some have suggested above). I would hardly get any money if I trade in the Arcam gear, and I paid a lot for it when I bought it so I wouldn't want to be 'out of pocket' so to speak. They suggested to run the lows using a Rotel 1080 and then the highs/mids with the Rotel 1070 - doing this would cost me about £1500 though so it's not a cheap option! Besides, I like the way the Arcam stuff is made in the UK and not China/Tawain etc! Somehow gives me more confidence in the brand, silly I know, but it's how I feel.

I may look at getting the sub to match as advised.

I had another listen to the 703's last night, and they are bassy, it's just not as forward as the missions were - I couldn't quite describe it properly initially! The Missions are very good speakers considering their money I will say.. still, the detail clarity and midrange from the B&W's is far superior.

So I think the possible suggestions so far are as follows:

Check placement of speakers
Upgrade CD player (possibly Arcam CD192 - supposedly excellent)
Purchase a sub (possibly B&W ASW 750)

[bigburner]

Hi Lewis,

I'd buy a sub. The 703 is a good speaker but rather bass-shy compared to some other makes. No amp on earth is going to fix that.

Nigel.

[Audio_ElF]

I think maybe changing from the Missions to the 703 you've gone from a speaker that provided a lot of bass, to ones that provide more controlled, accurate bass

[NMG]

IMHO, the 1080/1070 combo would be completely unnecessary. While I think your speakers would benefit from more power than your current amp has, if you get a sub you could cross your mains over at 80hz or so and let the sub handle the bass below that. That will take a significant load off of your current amp and you should be just fine with your current setup until (and of couse if) you decide that an upgrade is necessary. A good quality sub (the 750 would be a great choice but others would work as well) will integrate very well with the 703's and extend their range considerably.

Also, I found that changing my source had more of an impact on the overall sound than chaging my amp. The amp was certainly an improvement, but it impacted the system in a different way. It offered more control, stability and dynamics as opposed to a major change in the sound. Like bigburner said, a bigger amp won't add bass, but a sub certainly will.

Finally, I wouldn't suggest doing anything (except perhaps adding the sub because it would be a DRAMATIC addition) until you let those 703's break-in for a while. They will loosen up quite a bit and I think you'll find that they will settle into an even more balanced presentation that what you currently enjoy. I'd wait until that occurs before deciding if you want to change your source and/or amp.

But yeah, I keep coming back to adding a sub :T

[bnieman]

Definitely forgo the 1070 and get the 1080. Use the money you would have spent on the 1070 and get a sub.

The ASW-750 can be had for around $1000 on the used market. I actually picked mine up for $950 a couple years ago from a guy on Craig's List!

Just a thought...

[Lewisimo]

Thanks for the advice gentlemen

I forgot to say I bought them used, so they are already 'run in'. I think as a lad mentioned above, these provide very accurate bass rather than a wolly but more 'overpowing' bass that the missions provided. Saying that, I really am keen on the idea of a sub! Also maybe a cd player upgrade if I can get a good deal - The Arcam CD192 used to cost over £1000 here but you can pick them up now for around £500 so a good deal cheaper now!

Now the only question is which sub to get..... I used to own a Paridigram one and it was seriously mean, but way too much bass for the small apartment I live in now. Also asthetics comes into it, and the Paridigram was a big black box, whereas the B&W one's are sexy! Probably looking at the ASW 700 for now due to the reasonable cost, and the fact it's not too big. As you can see from the pic above the room isn't overly large.

Thanks again for the help lads!

[bnieman]

Do you have neighbors to deal with at all? I'm surprised they put up with the bass in the 703s! Then again, not everyone listens to music as loud as me...

Let us know what you decide in the end! Your system is really shaping up!