What are your thoughts on Denon's AVP-A1HDCI pre/pro?

[Z Man]

I was just wanting to get everyones take on this new pre/pro. I know that it offers more options that any other high end pre/pro out there, but without actually listening to it, do you think it will sound as as good as it looks on paper?

[Hdale85]

I don't think it has much more then the Integra DTC-9.8 and the Integra is only $1,600 MSRP. The Denon is like $7,000 MSRP. With all that the Integra has I can't imagine that the Denon has enough extras to justify the price.

[Z Man]

I don't think it has much more then the Integra DTC-9.8 and the Integra is only $1,600 MSRP. The Denon is like $7,000 MSRP. With all that the Integra has I can't imagine that the Denon has enough extras to justify the price.

Well actually it does. The DTC-9.8 does have most of the bells and whistles of the Denon, but here are some things it doesn't have:

HQV Realta (DTC-9.8 uses Reon)
HDCD decoding
Audyssey MultEQ Pro
Wi-Fi 802.11 b/g compatible/Ethernet music streaming (AAC Lossless, WMA Lossless, FLAC, WAV, MP3).
Internet Radio Capability via Ethernet (PlaysForSure)
Streaming Audio From USB memory (PlaysForSure)
6 HDMI 1.3a inputs (DTC-9.8 has 4)
12 balanced outputs (DTC 9.8 has 8 )
11 digital inputs/5 optical, 4 coaxial, 2 BNC coaxial (DTC-9.8 has 6 digital ins/3 optical, 3 coaxial)
4 digital outputs (DTC-9.8 has 1)

And one of the biggest differences is the Denon is a fully balanced dual differential design with 4 DAC's per channel on all 12 output channels.

Realistically speaking, as nice as the Integra DTC-9.8 is (and it is a very nice unit), it really isn't in the same "high-end" league as the Denon AVP. Of course the jury is still out as to how this unit will actually sound, but for all the R&D that was put into this behemoth of a pre/pro it should offer some very high class sound.

[Hdale85]

Well like I said if your going to use all that stuff... I just can't see the point in spending over 5 grand more on some features I'm never going to use. With all the highdef formats are you going to need the better processor? the Reon is supposed to be quite nice? Would you even notice anything different? The 9.8 is supposed to have the Audyssey MultEQ eventually I believe or maybe already? Not sure on that one completely. The WiFi stuff is nice but will you use it? Also I don't believe the Denon plays FLAC but I could be wrong I've been looking at the 3808CI and I haven't seen anything about FLAC but it has almost all the same features. Internet radio I don't know why you'd even want to use that as it's never very good quality? The fully balanced thing is probably a big plus but still I'm not sure I could tell a ton of difference between the 2 especially probably not enough to justify the 5k difference. Of course these are just my views. I decided not to go with the DTC 9.8 and just get a high end receiver as I'm pushing back my amp purchase eventually. So I've decided to get the Denon 3808CI as it would make an excellent pre/pro later. I wish it had the HQV video processing but honestly I have very little dvd's it would mostly get used when playing our Nintendo Wii. These are of course my personal views and others I'm sure see cause in spending so much extra.

[Kal Rubinson]

Well actually it does. The DTC-9.8 does have most of the bells and whistles of the Denon, but here are some things it doesn't have:

HQV Realta (DTC-9.8 uses Reon)
HDCD decoding
Audyssey MultEQ Pro
Wi-Fi 802.11 b/g compatible/Ethernet music streaming (AAC Lossless, WMA Lossless, FLAC, WAV, MP3).
Internet Radio Capability via Ethernet (PlaysForSure)
Streaming Audio From USB memory (PlaysForSure)
6 HDMI 1.3a inputs (DTC-9.8 has 4)
12 balanced outputs (DTC 9.8 has 8 )
11 digital inputs/5 optical, 4 coaxial, 2 BNC coaxial (DTC-9.8 has 6 digital ins/3 optical, 3 coaxial)
4 digital outputs (DTC-9.8 has 1)

And one of the biggest differences is the Denon is a fully balanced dual differential design with 4 DAC's per channel on all 12 output channels.

Realistically speaking, as nice as the Integra DTC-9.8 is (and it is a very nice unit), it really isn't in the same "high-end" league as the Denon AVP. Of course the jury is still out as to how this unit will actually sound, but for all the R&D that was put into this behemoth of a pre/pro it should offer some very high class sound.

One correction. The Integra does have Audyssey Pro. Just ran it this weekend.

[Z Man]

One correction. The Integra does have Audyssey Pro. Just ran it this weekend.

Very Interesting. I had read through the 9.8 literature and didn't see any mention of it being Pro capable. Well this is a very good thing for current or potential 9.8 owners. Definitely a plus for a unit so reasonably priced.

Thanks for sharing that.

[Kal Rubinson]

I think the reason you did not see it is that it is, like others, only AudysseyPro compatible, requiring the additional equipment/software for the Pro. Also, as originally released, there was no compatibility, so a simple firmware update was required. As a result, there was an ongoing controversy whether it was, in fact, compatible.

Nonetheless, it does work (well).

Kal

[Z Man]

With all the highdef formats are you going to need the better processor? The WiFi stuff is nice but will you use it? Also I don't believe the Denon plays FLAC but I could be wrong I've been looking at the 3808CI and I haven't seen anything about FLAC but it has almost all the same features.

I think that anyone who is getting into this price range for a pre/pro is going after more than just the DSP processing. As for the Wi-Fi/Ethernet audio streaming, yes I believe that there are many people out there that want a one box solution for streaming their music from a PC. There are many products available that offer streaming (Squeezebox, Transporter,etc), and many stand alone audio server systems (ReQuest, Olive, Escient, etc.). But for those one would need to purchase yet another box and integrate it into their system. With the Denon you need only connect to your PC via Ethernet or Wi-Fi.

As for whether the Denon AVP decodes FLAC, yes it sure does.

[Azeke]

I don't know for that kind of money, I guess I would have to consider the Lexicon MC-12 HD, unless of course it is imperative to have Wi-Fi/Wired streaming, as well as, some of the other options. I guess now though the Lexicon HD would be considered a legacy system with only HDMI 1.2.

Just my humble thoughts, but who knows, I could reconsider after an unbiased evaluation. Good luck on your choice and keep us posted.

Peace and blessings,

Azeke

[Z Man]

Yes when you start getting into the $7k- $10k category, there are quite a few really great choices (Lexicon being one of them). Before the Denon AVP, I pretty much had my heart set on either a Classe' or Theta. I figured that with the Theta being a modular design, that it would stay current with all the newest and greatest technologies. But as time went by and the CBIII was still pretty much the way it had been since it's release, I began to wonder if Theta was ever going to offer things like HDMI 1.3a inputs and Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD MA decoding. This of course still hasn't happened and there is no mention if it ever will be.

So I scratched Theta off my list of AV controllers. The Classe', while being a phenomenally built unit and offering superb audio quality, is still behind the curve Technology wise. I mean I could easily overlook that it doesn't offer Audyssey room correction, Realta video processing, or Wi-Fi/Ethernet streaming capability. But I do believe that any soon to be released "new" product should at the very least offer TrueHD and DTS-HD MA decoding.

So IMO with regards to connectivity options, decoding, and functionality options, the Denon AVP is currently one of a kind. Of course we all don't yet know just how this AV Controller will sound with both 2 channel and multichannel. But once the reviews are in and it does indeed prove itself worthy, then I see this one giving the high end heavyweights a run for their money.

[Z Man]

Here's the official spec sheet for the Denon AVP-A1HDCI.

http://avforum.no/forum/attachments/receivere-forsterkere/27790d1200761380-denons-nye-monster-avpa1hdci-specsheet-121907.pdf

[Hdale85]

If you want to spend that kind of money then by all means its an excellent unit.

[littlesaint]

I think that anyone who is getting into this price range for a pre/pro is going after more than just the DSP processing. As for the Wi-Fi/Ethernet audio streaming, yes I believe that there are many people out there that want a one box solution for streaming their music from a PC. There are many products available that offer streaming (Squeezebox, Transporter,etc), and many stand alone audio server systems (ReQuest, Olive, Escient, etc.). But for those one would need to purchase yet another box and integrate it into their system. With the Denon you need only connect to your PC via Ethernet or Wi-Fi.

As for whether the Denon AVP decodes FLAC, yes it sure does.

The problem with "all in one box" setups is technology changes rather fast these days. I wouldn't want to invest in something like that knowing that a lot of the bell and whistles will be replaced anyway in the next few years.

[Race Car Driver]

That is on hell of a receiver
I can pick it up for about half price :P

[Z Man]

The problem with "all in one box" setups is technology changes rather fast these days. I wouldn't want to invest in something like that knowing that a lot of the bell and whistles will be replaced anyway in the next few years.

Well I don't see this pre/pro becoming obsolete anytime soon. DTS-ES and Dolby Digital-EX were introduced around 7 years ago and are still in use to this day on not only DVD releases but on high def formats as well. And since TrueHD, DTS-HD MA, and Uncompressed PCM are pretty new audio formats, I don't see a new audio format arriving for at least another 6 years. And HDMI 1.3a will definitely serve us well during that time.

I think Denon put a lot of forward thinking into this unit, and as such many will not need to purchase a new pre/pro for at least another 5 or 6 years (maybe more).

Just curious, which "bells and whistles" do you believe will be replaced within the next 2 years?

One thing that I find very interesting, not just with your post, but with many others in various AV forums, is the negativity on this pre/pro. It offers more features than any other pre/pro out there but is getting little respect. Many of the posts I have found are comments like "I don't see it doing any more than a top end receiver", or "why would one want to spend that kind of money?", to "for that amount of money why not go with something like Anthem, Lexicon, or Classe?"

Could it be because people see Denon as being a brand that shouldn't cost as much as some of the hi end heavyweights? Or maybe they consider it not in the same league as the Theta's and Classe's of the world? You mention Denon and a lot of people automatically think receiver. Could it be that since Denon has been away from the high end separates game for 10 years, that their once high end reputation has gotten a little tarnished? I don't know but I do find it very interesting.

[littlesaint]

Don't get me wrong, it looks like an excellent piece of equipment and I have no problem with supporting every audio codec and DSP under the sun. I just think pre/pros should stick to audio processing and leave everything else (other than pass-through switching) to other devices.

Two things I particularly don't care for in a pre/pro are the networking and scaling. Wireless standards are changing quickly and there are many relatively inexpensive products that perform this task quite well already. A scaler is nice if you watch a lot of DVD or standard TV, but HD formats are starting to take off so the necessity of scaling is less (though hardly obsolete), plus is a Realta really necessary here? If your looking in this price range for a pre/pro, wouldn't you already have a dedicated scaler? Also, many source devices have decent scalers already, at least good enough for the source material they are providing.