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Well, I thought there were other places on this forum to talk about those kinds of things, but I just checked and couldn't find any. Nevermind. Discuss away.
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Just a heads up but Amazon is doing a buy 2 get 1 free on blu-ray.Comment
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I too am seeing BD prices spiraling down. At Fry's the other day, I saw a good portion of the many titles they carry in the $13-18 dollar range.Comment
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Just to keep this fresh, this was posted February 22nd, 2008. Therefore, Blu-Ray has 4 months left until Feb 22nd, 2009, to completely die.Originally posted by Andrew M Ward
Keeping an eye on it.
CHRIS
Well, we're safe for now. Thank goodness we're in a bowling alley.
- PleasantvilleComment
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Yeah that was an extremely bold statement to say the least.Comment
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Stirrer!Originally posted by Chris DComment
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I'm don't think Blu-ray will die in 4 months, but I thought it interesting that Apple released new laptops this week without Blu-ray capabilities. When the topic came up, Jobs referred to Blu-ray as a "bag of hurt right now" claiming the licensing is a mess, and the market "isn't there yet". Apple is a BDA member. Yes, it's obvious Apple would prefer people use iTunes and AppleTV for downloading of media, but Apple is usually at the front of the new technology wave and so far they are taking a pass on Blu-ray.Santino
The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.Comment
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Sorry but I have to vehemently disagree with "Apple is usually on the front of new technology". Jobs couldn't reasonably incorporate Blu-ray into his product's look, so he lashes out against it. They don't put optical drives in their laptops so they can make them skinny and pretty. Even though other companies have come out with laptops just as thin which do have optical drives. Not trying to bash Apple here, but the sentiment that Blu-ray isn't going to last because Steve Jobs says so is preposterous IMHO.-ChuckComment
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What, you didn't get the memo about the secret self-destruct devices in all BD players and discs--programmed to go off on that exact date? Ooops! Now I've done it. No, no, don't...give me another chance...please...don't...AAAHHHH!!!Originally posted by Chris DComment
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Well only one of Apple's notebooks doesn't have an optical drive
Unless they released new ones?
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Well I didn't say that and neither did Jobs. Let's clear up some FUD on your part. Only one model does not have an optical drive. The MacBooks and MacBook Pros have optical drives, so it has nothing to do with the physical drives. He also did not say it wasn't going to last, just that they didn't see it as a good move right now. You can disagree, but they seem to have a pretty good track record on these things.Originally posted by impala454Santino
The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.Comment
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The current financial climate certainly isn't going to help BD adoption and expansion. Sorry guys but while Mr. Ward's comments were... a bit strong... I still don't see BD going much beyond a niche format. A pretty one but a niche one all the same. I'm with Mr. Jobs on this one.Originally posted by littlesaintJasonComment
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Track record like what? Just curious. I will give them, that they have a track record of packaging products in a very desirable way, and do excellent marketing. They have a great business model. While I may no personally care for their products, I have to recognize those things. I don't see the innovation that everyone claims though.Originally posted by littlesaint
As far as blu-ray, I think this holiday season will see a good jump in sales. Lots of BD players are rumored to have large cuts in price, and the discs are coming down as well. Blu-ray is up around 13% market share. Right around Apple's computer market share numbers...
-ChuckComment
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Wow. Someone's got some Apple issues. :BOriginally posted by impala454Track record like what? Just curious. I will give them, that they have a track record of packaging products in a very desirable way, and do excellent marketing. They have a great business model. While I may no personally care for their products, I have to recognize those things. I don't see the innovation that everyone claims though.
As far as blu-ray, I think this holiday season will see a good jump in sales. Lots of BD players are rumored to have large cuts in price, and the discs are coming down as well. Blu-ray is up around 13% market share. Right around Apple's computer market share numbers...Santino
The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.Comment
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Because I don't auto-believe every word out of Steve Job's mouth? Let's discuss rather than drag this down to AVS levels with "Wow"s and accusations of "issues".-ChuckComment
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Well, my take would be that YES, downloadable video content does have a future. And clearly iPod/Apple has a large interest in having that market do well. So while I don't think Apple makes bad products, I think they're a little biased about really pitching in for the success of BD, so I would take comments about the subject with a grain of salt. CHRIS
Well, we're safe for now. Thank goodness we're in a bowling alley.
- PleasantvilleComment
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I think Blu-ray is already past a niche market. SACD and DVD-A was a niche market and you can tell because like 90% of the people out there have no clue what it is.Comment
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Maybe if you had really read my post it wouldn't have to. All I said was it is interesting that a BDA member (one that has a good feel for what people want and making money in it) is choosing to not include Blu-ray in their products right now for reasons given. I included the obvious "grain of salt" that Apple has a competing interest in iTunes downloads. You replied with the Apple hate none of which had anything to do with my point. If you don't like Apple, that's fine, but the quality or lack of in Apple products has absolutely nothing to do with my comment.Originally posted by impala454Santino
The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.Comment
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I think your estimate is a bit low, actually.Originally posted by Dougie085
BradComment
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I made no Apple hate, nor did I comment on the quality or lack thereof in Apple products. I merely disagreed with you that they innovate (which was the entire basis of your statement). It was merely my opinion that you were mistaking marketing for innovation. And again, this is really feeling like an AVS discussion, especially with comments like "if you had read my post". If you want to further this thread offshoot, send me a PM. Otherwise I don't care to continue this little back and forth with you. Have your last word if you must and be done with it.Originally posted by littlesaint-ChuckComment
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Article claiming that Blu-Ray sales are on a massive increase.
CHRIS
Well, we're safe for now. Thank goodness we're in a bowling alley.
- PleasantvilleComment
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Good to read that. But I wonder how much better sales would be if the hardware and software folk would just get their act together and start producing a compatible product that works without the need for hardware firmware updates. This is what I feel is holding back a general consumer adoption of the format.Comment
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I can agree with that article. We've been selling tons of blu-ray players at work.Comment
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Firmware updates will be MORE, not less, prevalent as time goes by. Firmware updates allow devices to remain "current" longer and for new features to be added quite easily. In the "old days" if I wanted to have new features, I needed to buy a new piece of gear--now I just do the firmware update on my PS3 and get new features, smoother operation and so on. Far cheaper on my wallet than having to buy a new player all the time.Originally posted by George BellefontaineComment
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And that's fine for folk like us, but the average consumer is a totally different story and that's why adoption will take much longer of these little computers called Blu-ray players.Originally posted by OvationComment
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Women did like the imacs though,it was all the pretty colors :roll:Originally posted by impala454Track record like what? Just curious. I will give them, that they have a track record of packaging products in a very desirable way, and do excellent marketing. They have a great business model. While I may no personally care for their products, I have to recognize those things. I don't see the innovation that everyone claims though.
As far as blu-ray, I think this holiday season will see a good jump in sales. Lots of BD players are rumored to have large cuts in price, and the discs are coming down as well. Blu-ray is up around 13% market share. Right around Apple's computer market share numbers...RobertComment
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Funny quickie: I worked at a Best Buy back in the day in the computer dept. This lady comes in and says she has lots of $$ and wants the best computer we had (at the time, this Micron P3 600MHz/128MB + 17" monitor was the best we had). I show it to her, and she goes "oh that thing is a piece of junk" and sees the Compaq next to it (P2 300MHz/32MB + 15" monitor) and says "you're wrong this one is way faster just look at it, this is the one I want". Not sure how many of you recall, but in those days the Micron was the beige box and Compaq had a curvy, styled front bezel.
And on topic: I have noticed a lot more people like my friends & family who were cautious about buying a BD player six months ago, are now buying them. I got my sister & bro-in-law a PS3 and they went nuts over it and have bought several movies so far. I think it's definitely starting to take hold.-ChuckComment
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Unfortunately if the economy gets much worse even for home theater it may become a niche marketplace...well,atleast for highend products.Originally posted by aud19RobertComment
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I think george has somewhat of a point being that the average consumer back when cassettes were king could not figure out how to set the clock on their vcr or read the instruction manual to do so.Originally posted by George Bellefontaine
If the machines cannot do it themselves then joe/jane sixpack dont like it or non-avphiles wont take the time to access the instructions to correct the issue or problem .RobertComment
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I do think that downloadable movies will eventually become the norm, but it isn't going to be soon.
Look at the starts and stops with the downloadable music "industry". It's now a common thing, but it took 4-5 years (I think) to get it where a large segment of consumers are comfortable doing it. I still don't believe that J6P is on board yet - it's still a little more tech-savvy audience to date.
Now, movies? It's got the same start-up issues that music had, plus. The obstacles to overcome that I care about are mostly file-size, quality and platform-stability related. Once there is a low maintenance, stable platform (similar to an Opus music server), that will internally house many hundreds of Blu-Ray PQ and SQ movies, allow easy backups to avoid losing your library, that is forward and backward compatible so that your movies won't have to be converted to another format at some point, and plays well with the rest of your audio/video components, then and only then will I concede that the era of "downloadble movies" is upon us.
Until that time, Blu-Ray is the best thing going and it looks 'n sounds mahvelous. I don't believe it's a niche format any more. Not quite mainstream yet, but it's getting there. I'm running a Pioneer Elite BDP05-FD into a Pioneer Elite 50" plasma and the visual results are hands-down astounding. When my wife saw this combination for the first time, her reaction was "Holy cow, that's beautiful!" And that from a woman that isn't easily impressed. Blu-Ray sales in the US are up over 300% for the first half of 2008 and up over 500% in the UK. The Dark Knight sold 600,000 units the first day and 1.7 million in one week. The format battle caused some grief, but now that it is gone and disc & player prices are falling, the market share will only go higher. Niche? No more. Growing? Yes, even with the economic downturn.
As always, just my 2 cents..
David - Trigger-happy HTGuide AdminComment
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Article here claiming that BD is "Taking Europe By Storm", with sales growing immensely.
It's hard to figure out how so many companies and websites can promote titles that lead people to believe Blu-ray is a dying format, or even that it's already dead. Month after month, Blu-ray sales increase, with months like November where the format outsells DVD completely. In November, there was a 165% increase in Blu-ray movies in Europe alone. On top of this, Blu-ray players outsold DVD players as well, though that includes sales numbers for PS3.
According to a Futuresource press release, "sales of Blu-Ray disc movies are defying the odds and bucking the credit crunch." Jim Bottoms, Managing Director of Corporate Development at Futuresource, said, "The Blu-ray disc format offers an unparalleled home entertainment experience. We fully expect Blu-ray to continue its rapid growth, stimulated by falling prices and even more bundling deals with large screen TVs." CHRIS
Well, we're safe for now. Thank goodness we're in a bowling alley.
- PleasantvilleComment
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Well, this one could certainly stir up some controversy, given our conversations in the past.
Article says that DVD sales are down by 32 percent, which they attribute to downloads and Netfilx. But BD sales are up 300%.
DVD Plunge May Force Studios to Write Down Movies (Update2)
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By Andy Fixmer and Sarah Rabil
Jan. 30 (Bloomberg) -- Plunging DVD sales threaten to reduce profit for studio owners Time Warner Inc.,Walt Disney Co.,Viacom Inc. and News Corp., and may force them to write down the value of movies, analysts said.
Fourth-quarter shipments fell 32 percent in the U.S. and Canada to 453.6 million DVDs, according to Los Angeles-based Digital Entertainment Group. The drop is the biggest since the industry-funded researcher started keeping track in 1997.
The decline is being fueled by viewer shifts toward rental services such as Netflix Inc., the U.S. recession and technology that makes it easier to stream Web videos to televisions.
“Making a movie just won’t be as profitable as it once was,” Barclays Capital analyst Anthony DiClemente in New York said in an interview. “There will be a complete bottoms-up reconstruction of the economics of the film business.”
DVD sales may fall 11 percent this year and cause studios to write down new and recent titles that miss internal forecasts, Michael Nathanson, an analyst at Sanford C. Bernstein & Co. in New York, wrote in a report this month.
Home-video sales and rentals, mostly reflecting DVDs, accounted for 68 percent of the $88.9 billion global filmed- entertainment market in 2008, according to estimates by New York-based PricewaterhouseCoopers LLP. The figures include $3.89 billion in online rental fees and digital streaming revenue.
Future Cash Flows
Films are valued based on projected sales over 10 to 15 years, from theatrical release through DVD sales, cable television and TV broadcasts outside the U.S., said David A. Davis, managing partner of Arpeggio Partners LLC, a Santa Monica, California-based consultant to movie studios.
Studio estimates of these cash flows may prove optimistic if DVD sales continue to deteriorate, according to Nathanson.
In his Jan. 14 report, Nathanson lowered earnings estimates for Viacom, owner of Paramount Pictures; Burbank, California- based Disney; and Twentieth Century Fox owner News Corp. for this year and next. He left his 2009 projection for Time Warner, owner of Warner Bros. Pictures, unchanged while lowering the 2010 forecast.
“Dark Knight” producer Warner Bros. was the top Hollywood studio last year in U.S. box office sales, followed by Paramount and Sony Pictures Entertainment.
“It’s too early to say” how the drop in DVD sales will affect Paramount’s business, said spokeswoman Patti Rockenwagner.
Warner Home Video President Ronald Sanders wasn’t available for comment, spokesman Jim Noonan said. Steve Feldstein, spokesman for Twentieth Century Fox Home Entertainment, didn’t return calls seeking comment. Disney spokeswoman Heidi Trotta declined to comment.
ITunes, Netflix
DVD usage surpassed VHS cassettes in 2002 and peaked in 2006, when U.S. sales and rentals totaled $24.1 billion, according to Digital Entertainment Group. Now consumers are shifting toward digital services such as Apple Inc.’s iTunes and online movie rentals from Netflix.
Netflix’s revenue surged 19 percent in the fourth quarter, the Los Gatos, California-based company said on Jan. 26, citing “growing momentum with Internet streaming” and the impact of Microsoft Corp. and Tivo Inc. devices that make it easier to view Netflix rentals online.
Retailers are selling fewer DVDs. Richfield, Minnesota- based Best Buy Co., the largest U.S. electronics seller, reported a 12 percent decline in comparable-store movie, music and video-game sales in December.
‘Big-Screen TV’
“The easier it becomes for consumers to purchase content directly and have it come to their big-screen TV, the more it takes away revenue from the physical retailer,” Michael Morris, an analyst at UBS Securities LLC in New York, said in an interview.
The lower cost may also boost the appeal of rentals to strapped consumers. Unlimited Netflix online or DVD rentals cost $8.99 a month. A DVD of Paramount’s “Iron Man” costs $15 at Amazon.com.
As DVD sales make up a smaller share of home entertainment, studios may be “trading high-margin sales for low-margin rentals,” Morris said. “If someone rents a movie, how many times will they come back again? Even if it’s twice, it’s a lot less money for studios.”
Disney, down 30 percent last year, slid 57 cents to $20.68 at 4:02 p.m. in New York Stock Exchange composite trading. The company reports first-quarter results on Feb. 3, followed by Time Warner on Feb. 4 and News Corp. on Feb. 5.
Earnings Reports
New York-based Time Warner has said it will post a 2008 loss on a $25 billion writedown related to cable-system and publishing assets and AOL. The shares dropped 57 cents, or 5.8 percent, to $9.33 today after losing 39 percent last year.
Rupert Murdoch’s News Corp. declined 41 cents, or 6 percent, to $6.39 on the Nasdaq Stock Market. Viacom, owner of MTV and Nickelodeon, reports on Feb. 12. It fell 59 cents, or 3.9 percent, to $14.75, after losing 57 percent last year.
Some titles are selling well. Universal Pictures sold more than 100 million DVDs in the fourth quarter, led by “Mamma Mia!,” Fairfield, Connecticut-based parent General Electric Co. said on Jan. 23. Sales of older DVD titles were weaker than expected. Profit at NBC Universal fell 6 percent to $865 million.
Universal spokeswoman Cindy Gardner didn’t return messages seeking comment.
‘Pinocchio’ on Blu-ray
Studios are trying to recover by promoting higher-priced Blu-ray discs. U.S. and Canadian shipments more than tripled to 63 million in 2008, according to Digital Entertainment Group. The technology was developed by Tokyo-based Sony Corp., which includes a Blu-ray player in its PlayStation 3 game console.
Disney is releasing the animated classic “Pinocchio” in a DVD and Blu-ray combo in March, followed by “Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs” in October.
Since sales began, U.S. purchases of Blu-ray players totaled almost 10 million units at the end of 2008, Digital Entertainment Group said. Still, consumers are aware the entire industry may shift online, DiClemente said.
“We don’t think Blu-ray is the savior,” DiClemente said. “Investing in Blu-ray, especially in the teeth of a recession, isn’t what the consumer wants.”
To contact the reporter on this story: Andy Fixmer in Los Angeles at afixmer@bloomberg.net; Sarah Rabil in New York at srabil@bloomberg.net.
Last Updated: January 30, 2009 16:08 EST CHRIS
Well, we're safe for now. Thank goodness we're in a bowling alley.
- PleasantvilleComment
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Huh..“We don’t think Blu-ray is the savior,” DiClemente said. “Investing in Blu-ray, especially in the teeth of a recession, isn’t what the consumer wants.”B&W
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Ah, I forgot. Apparently Obama is the proclaimed saviour now. CHRIS
Well, we're safe for now. Thank goodness we're in a bowling alley.
- PleasantvilleComment
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Maybe it's because I'm in the largely recession resistant Houston area, but I just can't say I'm seeing any effects at all. I go into Fry's or Best Buy on a weekend and it's just as crowded as always. Same w/all the other major retailers. I still have to wait 20-30 mins for a table at restaurants and see 4-5 cars deep at the drive-thru's. I read about how bad it is in the news but just don't see it. One funny one I heard on TV the other day, some "economics expert" cited the Bennigan's bankruptcy as showing how people are eating out less... that bankruptcy started way before any of this economic turndown!
ok sorry, end rambling (I bought like six blu-rays yesterday)
-ChuckComment
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OMG, I went into Best Buy today and they didnt have ANY Blu-Rays on the shelves!Originally posted by Chris D
When I asked what department they are in they said Blu-Ray has already been surpassed by downloadable media.
:E
I was shocked, sadened and upset. I asked when they got rid of them they said they were all pulled from the shelf after store close on Sat the 21st.Last edited by Race Car Driver; 06 March 2009, 20:29 Friday.B&WComment
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Huh?Comment
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He was referring to this post that appeared here February 22nd, 2008, saying that Blu-Ray was going to be dead as of last month. (February 2009)
I'm out of the country right now, so maybe you all can help me back there in North America... is Blu-Ray dead as predicted?
Originally posted by Andrew M Ward CHRIS
Well, we're safe for now. Thank goodness we're in a bowling alley.
- PleasantvilleComment
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Not here in PA. Was at Walmart last night and the Blu-ray section had grown pretty well.Comment
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Blu-ray is alive and well in this neck of the woods. In fact, it has really taken off here and shows in the rental locations like Blockbuster. The shelf area has tripled since Christmas and new relase pockets are usually empty by the time I get around to them, so I usually have to wait a week or two or else rent the dvd version if I'm in a rush to see it.
I find it hard to believe that downloadable media has already surpassed Blu-ray. And doubt if all Best Buys have dropped Blu-ray. They certianly haven't in Nova Scotia.Comment
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It's going strong in Houston (according to family and friends) and definitely going up here in Washington state..
David - Trigger-happy HTGuide AdminComment
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Yeah it's actually been taking off quite strongly lately here. More and more people come into my work asking me about blu-ray and we have been selling out of Blu-ray players a lot.Comment
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Huh... yeah, I got the opportunity to go to a nice mall today here in Qatar. Several A/V stores, and they still had blu-ray too. Doesn't look dead to me!
CHRIS
Well, we're safe for now. Thank goodness we're in a bowling alley.
- PleasantvilleComment
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Must be doing great if they have it in Qatar :B, I thought all they had out there were evil Transformers.Comment
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Was in Future Shop earlier today and saw about 400 titles on the shelves, at least 30% of which were under 17$. Didn't look like a dead format to me.Comment
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