HTG official High Definition high octane DVD format war, the aftermath

[impala454]

Yeap Houston still has plenty too They take up a whole long shelf at Fry's now (about 100' long and 5' tall) + several other locations throughout the store. Even walmart around here has an entire long shelf now, though defintely not the selection that Fry's offers.

[1oldguy]

The average BR Movie here is 30 to 32.99.If they would drop it to an even 24.99 I bet the sales at least here would really pick up.

[Race Car Driver]

Ive been buying alot of nice priced BRs at the local best buy the last 2 weeks.
$9.99-14.99.

Every time I go on the selection is larger and larger...

[JonMarsh]

The average BR Movie here is 30 to 32.99.If they would drop it to an even 24.99 I bet the sales at least here would really pick up.

Star Trek in BD is at Walmart for $19.99. Bought mine yesterday.

[NoDestiny]

I keep an eye on Amazon for deals and like Jon said, Wal-Mart's new releases are often well priced.

[Race Car Driver]

Best Buy has had BR discs priced between $8-15$, many of them too.
Of course you have your $29.99 discs and what not, but many good BR discs can be bought at under $20.

[Chris D]

Somebody asked me about this one, so here we are. This was posted two years ago back on February 22nd, 2008. Hmmmm... maybe he meant that Blu-Ray would be dead in TWO years, not just one. If so, we've only got one more month until Blu-Ray is completely dead as a format and we all can sell off our players.

am I missing something... or are 75% of the posters on this thread in complete denial...

:rofl:

Both Hi-Def disc formats are dead... 12 months from today and it's completely done (unless you're talking simply about games) but as movie formats they are cooked - toast - fried - over - lost - finished...


and many people predicted this over a year ago... (including me) Dead formats... I've been downloading movies for almost 8 months... ive got over 500 movies on my central hard drive... art work - actors - year - genre - movie company...all easy to be searched...

8O

what's a "format"...!!!!

[JonMarsh]

Oh well. I've never been one to be fond of "trends" and "pundits". So I'm still enjoying my two HD-DVD players and disks, and my Panasonic Blu-ray player, and seriously considering buying a Cambridge Audio Blu-ray player. Oh, and I did just pick up an Addonics combo drive assembly that I can hook up to my Mac Pro, and even play movies of either type when it's booted into Vista.

I do download "HD" TV shows, but I buy movie disks- I don't konw anyone doing 25-30 GB full HD movie downloads. And that's how I like watching my movies, even on my 58 year old eyes (20/15 with glasses).

They just need to MAKE more GOOD movies- then I'd buy more. Best thing I've watched recently was "Let the right one in", a Swedish horror/love story movies, and one of the more orignal vampire movies I've seen (but the the phrase "original vampire movie" is largely an oxymoron coming from Hollywood).

[numberoneoppa]

I don't konw anyone doing 25-30 GB full HD movie downloads. And that's how I like watching my movies, even on my 58 year old eyes (20/15 with glasses).

I download movies in 1080p properly encoded w/ x264. They end up around 12GB give or take a few depending on the exact settings, length, and film type. You'd need a pretty excellent setup to be able to distinguish some of these rips/encodes from the source BRD.

~

[Chris D]

Hmmmm..... no, I guess this wasn't this year either. (below post was posted on 22 Feb 2008.) Blu-Ray still not dead. Maybe he meant *3* years from then, as in 36 months, not 12. Hmmmmmm...

Still waiting.

am I missing something... or are 75% of the posters on this thread in complete denial...

:rofl:

Both Hi-Def disc formats are dead... 12 months from today and it's completely done (unless you're talking simply about games) but as movie formats they are cooked - toast - fried - over - lost - finished...


and many people predicted this over a year ago... (including me) Dead formats... I've been downloading movies for almost 8 months... ive got over 500 movies on my central hard drive... art work - actors - year - genre - movie company...all easy to be searched...

8O

what's a "format"...!!!!

[George Bellefontaine]

Right on, Chris. :T

[Ovation]

I download movies in 1080p properly encoded w/ x264. They end up around 12GB give or take a few depending on the exact settings, length, and film type. You'd need a pretty excellent setup to be able to distinguish some of these rips/encodes from the source BRD.

~

To do that properly requires a level of computer savviness that is beyond the vast majority of people who simply want to watch a movie. So while it is possible to eschew BD and watch movies in an excellent hi-def presentation, it is not even remotely simple for the general public. (we'll ignore the significant number of people who lack high-speed internet as well as the increasing tendency of ISPs to cap download capacity before installing extra fees--two major roadblocks for downloads as an adequate substitute for BD in PQ, OAR and SQ).

[Hdale85]

Actually playing h.264 files on the computer is pretty easy, If people can install a DVD codec like they've been doing for years it's not much more work to install a codec to play back HD files. Heck now with window's 7 you don't even have to install a codec it's already built in. Then there are native windows formats like WMVHD and what not.

I think the bandwidth capping or paying per gb downloaded is the way for cable companies to move to the future, I don't think it's the right move but I think they know that cable will eventually be obsolete and everything will be online, there for they are creating a scheme so they can still make money. Luckily my ISP has not taken this path....yet

[Ovation]

The vast majority of people who want to watch a movie do NOT know how to load a DVD onto their hard drives, much less HD files. What is simple for us (maybe), is certainly not simple to the general public. And the ISP capping will be a major impediment to downloads of equivalent quality of BD.

[Hdale85]

I was talking about companies that are offering downloadable HD movies or will be eventually.

[littlesaint]

Streaming is a fair argument. You're seeing a lot of Blu-ray player manufacturers hedging that path by include Netflix streaming in their players, and it's only a matter of time before it (or something similar) shows up in HDTVs or AVRs. The the only limitation is bandwidth. In the US, that's still a big limitation, and will be for awhile, but the infrastructure will get there eventually. It's already possible to deliver 100mbps to the home over fiber or cable, and cable providers are doing customer testing with this today. It's just a matter of having the backend to deal with scaling that amount of bandwidth to all customers.

[Ovation]

Streaming is a fair argument. You're seeing a lot of Blu-ray player manufacturers hedging that path by include Netflix streaming in their players, and it's only a matter of time before it (or something similar) shows up in HDTVs or AVRs. The the only limitation is bandwidth. In the US, that's still a big limitation, and will be for awhile, but the infrastructure will get there eventually. It's already possible to deliver 100mbps to the home over fiber or cable, and cable providers are doing customer testing with this today. It's just a matter of having the backend to deal with scaling that amount of bandwidth to all customers.

A point I had not even considered, which I think buttresses my view. I do think that, eventually, streaming and downloading of equivalent to BD quality hi-def will happen. I certainly never believed it would happen quickly enough for BD to be a blip on the screen--I see another 5 plus years before BD-equivalent quality is available without a physical format in a simple delivery system to the general public.

I still buy CDs and DVDs and BDs (and even the odd HD DVD when I come across them) despite knowing how to use my computer as a media centre because I like having the physical back up (hard drives fail, even external drives are subject to electrical damage--easier to lose a computer and some drives to theft than hundreds (if not thousands) of discs). When physical media is no longer available, I will go with the prevailing format. I will not abandon my discs unless/until a functioning playback device is no longer available, though.

I do concur with those who believe BD will never match the success of DVD--the critical mass of circumstances behind DVD's success are unlikely to be replicated. But BD is not in danger of evaporating anytime soon.

[Theresa]

I think the death of BD is inevitable but I hope its not very soon. I spend more time watching Netflix than anything else and don't own any BD disks but do get them from Netflix. The quality of blu-ray is sometimes much better than DVD but not always. Streaming is the future as demonstrated by Netflix. It has cured me of cable which I am about to dump. Cable and satelite (sp?) spend all their money on sports leaving those of us who detest sports paying for those who do like it. With netflix and other streaming I spend my money on what I like. Hopefully bandwidth limits will be eliminated so that those of us using Netflix will not be discriminated against by cable tv companies.

[Ovation]

Bandwidth limits are increasing in a lot of areas, precisely because cable and/or sat companies are also ISP providers. They don't want you to do what you are doing--cutting them out. It's a bit of a mess--some people care for content above presentation, so they don't care too much about SD vs hi def. For them, streaming or DVDs are good enough. Others care about presentation a bit, but privilege convenience. They subscribe to movie channels that are HD, but not in the best way possible (and almost always hacking the OAR to "fill the screen"). Still others want the best possible presentation--they privilege BD at the moment and will always look for the best available presentation. Companies try to meet each niche but never satisfy any one of them fully. But I do see the day when ISPs will (some are already doing it) charge somewhat hefty fees to get more bandwidth and, if net neutrality is scrapped, those ISPs will start favouring some sites over others (with a bad outcome for choice by the consumer). Streaming may be the inevitable path, but it is not one I anticipate with any great joy (especially if the ownership model disappears).

[George Bellefontaine]

Streaming may be the inevitable path, but it is not one I anticipate with any great joy (especially if the ownership model disappears).

The same here. I'm 74 and I don't see BD disappearing in the next 10 years, at least, so it will probably be still around in my lifetime.

[Theresa]

Ah, I forgot. Apparently Obama is the proclaimed saviour now.

Is it really necessary to bring partisan politics to this forum? It strikes me as pretty sophmoric (sp?). Not only is it juvenile, it is untrue.

[Ovation]

Is it really necessary to bring partisan politics to this forum? It strikes me as pretty sophmoric (sp?). Not only is it juvenile, it is untrue.

I think his comment needs to be read in context with the post just above it (referring to BD as "the savior") as well as the date he made the post (a few weeks before Obama's inauguration--a time when the media was awash with comments about Obama being "a (political) savior" of sorts). Chris does not routinely make political comments of any kind, let alone highly partisan ones (such discussions are frowned upon by the owner of the board, in any event).

[Theresa]

I too had hope that the President would be the FDR for our time. I am a progressive and to progressives Obama is not a savior but a conservative Dem, no better than a middle of the road Republican. If you let him have such a political tagline than other views should be welcomed. The right is no better than the brown shirts of 1930s Germany.

[Chris D]

Wow, talk about dragging this one out of the past. Sorry, that was a couple YEARS ago, (not to mention one page and 36 posts back) and the only reason I commented on anything was that people a couple years ago were (literally) calling Obama the saviour, not BD or internet streaming.

As we try to stay away from discusssions centered on politics, I'm sorry for ever having mentioned it. Let's move on.

[mackintire]

I too had hope that the President would be the FDR for our time. I am a progressive and to progressives Obama is not a savior but a conservative Dem, no better than a middle of the road Republican. If you let him have such a political tagline than other views should be welcomed. The right is no better than the brown shirts of 1930s Germany.

:jawdrop:

[Ovation]

Probably best to back away from the political elements of recent posts.

[JohnA]

It's about time for Heathcliff to jump in....

[Chris D]

am I missing something... or are 75% of the posters on this thread in complete denial...

:rofl:

Both Hi-Def disc formats are dead... 12 months from today and it's completely done (unless you're talking simply about games) but as movie formats they are cooked - toast - fried - over - lost - finished...


and many people predicted this over a year ago... (including me) Dead formats... I've been downloading movies for almost 8 months... ive got over 500 movies on my central hard drive... art work - actors - year - genre - movie company...all easy to be searched...

8O

what's a "format"...!!!!

Well, it's that time of year again. This post above was made on Feb 22nd 2008. So it's now been 3 years from when that prediction was made. Again, I'm out of the country, so you guys will have to augment my knowledge, but I'm pretty sure that neither DVD or BD are dead. I know I'm still buying movies on disc. I'm pretty sure others are as well.

It is good to revisit the topic of downloaded vs. physical media, though. Streaming has undeniably grown in appeal and use. Will it ever be complete and TOTALLY elminate physical media? As we see, there are those that certainly think so, with various levels of urgency and prediction. Discuss on.

[Kevin P]

Well, I hope it isn't dead since I jumped on the BD bandwagon last Christmas.

But then, whatever I jump on usually dies anyway... Laserdisc, Minidisc, SACD...

[madmac]

Laserdisc?? Hehehehe!! I had one of those players!. Toted as being "The future of home theatre" at the time and then pop went the weasel when DVD showed up. Actually, it was more like a BANG....then I cried out and said "What was that noise!!" and then I was left with an $1000.00 obsolete player and many obsolete discs!!. Some collector dude bought it at a garage sale I had a couple of summers ago for 30 bucks!!. Dvd is not going anywhere, anytime soon. Only once BD drives, burners, and blank recordable discs are standard in computers will dvd go the way of the doe doe!!. Even though the technology is mature, nobody seems to be in a rush to make that happen for some reason. Probably copyright fears I would imagine.

[Ovation]

While I occasionally stream TV programmes from Netflix (and, more rarely, a movie), I also continue to add to both my DVD (for things that are unlikely to ever emerge on BD) and BD collections. Hell, I've even picked up a few HD DVDs in the past year (and I still use my minidisc players--yes players).

I look at it this way--I want the best possible presentation (at a cost I deem acceptable) and I try to equip myself for as many formats as I can to give myself the widest possible latitude and flexibility--for music and movies.

[madmac]

I feel sorry for the people that rushed in and got a DVD HD player!. They certainly got burned big time!. I waited until the format war was over before I bought a BD player. I still believe that DVD HD was the better format and should have won. BD technology is too firmware picky and too copy protected. That's why they are not standard in computers yet and it will be awhile before they are.

[Ovation]

I feel sorry for the people that rushed in and got a DVD HD player!. They certainly got burned big time!. I waited until the format war was over before I bought a BD player. I still believe that DVD HD was the better format and should have won. BD technology is too firmware picky and too copy protected. That's why they are not standard in computers yet and it will be awhile before they are.

Don't feel sorry for all of us (just ordered another HD DVD today). I have over 150 HD DVDs, almost all of them for bargain prices (average is less than 3$ per title), they look great and at least 30 of them are not yet available on BD (another 50 or so have only recently become available but I've been enjoying them in hi-def for years).

I was not an early adopter, however (rarely am in video gear--audio is another matter). I wanted to confirm that HD disc media would be an improvement over the very good DVD images I was getting in my setup. I bought in when HD DVD players took a serious price plunge (couple of months before Warner announced it was leaving HD DVD behind). It was an inexpensive way to establish that HD disc media was, in fact, worth it to me, so I have no regrets.

[Chris D]

Yeah, I'm the same. Got a Toshiba A35 HD-DVD player fairly early on. I didn't really spend a whole lot extra on the player and movies than I would have for the same stuff on BD. Still got the player in my system, all works just great.

[madmac]

I'm curious how you guys find the DVD-HD format compared to the BD format?. They play standard dvd's correct?. How is the up conversion in those players?.

[impala454]

I bit hard into HD-DVD and preferred it over bluray. I liked the fact that all the menus and such were very standardized. I.e. they all looked roughly the same from one movie to another. All this Java enabled BS in the blurays gets old when I just want to stick a movie in and watch it. I had the Toshiba XA2 and enjoyed it, but had to give in and go with the masses as I didn't care to have multiple players. Was kinda fun to be part of a "format war" though!

[Ovation]

The upconversion on several of the Toshibas was considered excellent in the day. One of mine allows me to send a 480i signal via HDMI (my pj, when new, was rated as excellent for video processing, so I send that to it, but when I use my smaller monitor, I use the player for upconversion as it is superior to the monitor).

I have rented a few BDs of titles I own in HD DVD just to compare and, to my eyes on my gear, I can find no difference. I know some BDs of earlier HD DVD exclusives have had newer transfers and so on, so I cannot say for sure that they are always equal in PQ, but HD DVD looks just as fantastic, overall, as BD. BD does have fewer lossy-only audio tracks but, at present, that is not a concern for me as I have no way of accessing the lossless audio (next upgrade will be a receiver--Anthem MRX series looks promising).

[Chris D]

News article today claiming that Blu-Ray has "failed to catch on". I find it interesting, although I take issue with some of their statements in it.

http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/04/19/feeling-blue-blu-ray/

[madmac]

I believe that most of the article is correct. Majority of people still watch their movies on dvd. Until BD recordable drives become standard, the format will continue to be behind dvd, which offers cheap affordable blank discs.

Another looming thing is streaming video services like Netflix (Which I use). You cannot argue with the convienience of these services and at $7.99 a month with close to dvd quality picture, It's a great deal!. As well as stated in the article, my Oppo upconverting player really does come painfully close to Hi Def in quality.

Being an audio/ video guy, I still love to watch films and concerts in BD format but for the majority of the pedestrian crowd, it matters much less.

[George Bellefontaine]

News article today claiming that Blu-Ray has "failed to catch on". I find it interesting, although I take issue with some of their statements in it.

I take issue with some of the statements, too. But I know blu-ray hasn't done as well as it should have to date.
People I talk to who have avoided blu-ray have done so because of experiences they've had when watching blu-rays at friends houses, where, in many cases, player problems occurred, or titles were too long loading, etc. I don't believe there are as many problem discs today as there were in earlier days, but it's difficult to convince those naysayers and that's no doubt holding back sales. After all, most Joe 6packs just want to put a disc in the machine, lean back and get an instant picture on their screen. I can understand that, and I do hope studios do something to get away from all that Java stuff that's frigging up things. Then I know blu would take off because the picture you get is very cinematic.

[Ovation]

BD will be like CD--around for a long time, but increasingly shunned by most consumers who prefer convenience over any other single factor.

[emig5m]

A button should be mandated for all Bluray players that "Skips directly to and plays main title". :T

[madmac]

When BD writable drives become commonplace in computers, then BD will take over the market. Right now due mostly to copyright issues and fears, that is not happening. However, I believe that it will........someday........

[Hdale85]

BD-RW drives actually don't cost that much anymore, nor does the media. I just don't think people have a need to burn BD's currently.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827106346

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817607054

this is about where DVD-RW drives were 5 or so years ago.

[impala454]

I have the drive and so far the only thing I write BDs for is for my yearly major backup of photos, source code, documents, etc. Usually I can get everything onto one or two 25GB discs. Though I notice the 50GB discs are finally coming down in price somewhat ($14 instead of $20 :P)