Receiver recommendation for B&W 703

[CPALIU]

I've been trying to figure out which receiver I should switch to when my B&W 703's arrive. I'm considering the

Harman Kardon 635
Harman Kardon 7300
Pioneer Elite VSX-56Txi
Pioneer Elite VSX-54TX
Pioneer Elite VSX 74Txvi
Pioneer Elite Vsx-72TXv
Denon 3806

Features, asside which one would any of you recommend? Also outside of the ones listed above what other receiver would you recommend to drive the B&W 703's? I'll be running only a Stero setup but I woudl like the ability to expand out to 5.1 in the future. HDMI is not necessary.

[LikeCoiledSteel]

Hi CPALIU,
I know that this is not waht you would like to hear, but the B&W 703's will need more than a receiver to run at peak performance. The 703's have the FST midrange driver that uses a lot of power. Sperates are your best bet.
Steel

[audioqueso]

....

[audioqueso]

But if I were to choose one, I would pick the Denon. Never heard the HKs, but out of receivers that I have owned, Denon and Marantz give excellent sound quality for the price.

[CPALIU]

Hi CPALIU,
I know that this is not waht you would like to hear, but the B&W 703's will need more than a receiver to run at peak performance. The 703's have the FST midrange driver that uses a lot of power. Sperates are your best bet.
Steel

DOH, not what i was hoping to hear. when i was auditioning them at ken cranes, they were hooked up to a yamaha receiver but i didn't get the model number.

[gd]

You might get by with a receiver, but you could only know by buying and trying (unless you can arrange for at-home auditions).

Consider this, if 2-ch matters greatly to you, and/or if your 5.1 HT is in the semi-distant future: for now, get a 2-ch integrated amp, and keep it in place to power the fronts (as well as run pure 2-ch sources) when you acquire an AV receiver.

That way, you can have more choices for power and performance for the L/R front speakers, like right now -- and worry about adding on later.

Check Rotel, Marantz... or, upwards (arguably), Musical Fidelity, Bryston.

Besides, this is kind of an in-between time for AVR's and prepro's, and that purchase might be worth holding off, whether HDMI matters to you or not.

[earwit]

You may be far better off a puchase a used amp and pre-amp to get the most out of your B&W Speakers..

There are countless great multi-channel amps under 2k.
and many pre-amp processors under 1500.oo
Would also look at Outlaw Audio as an option, an on-line Audio company
which on the audio side my offer the best performance per dollar out there.

[Ade]

I know that this is not waht you would like to hear, but the B&W 703's will need more than a receiver to run at peak performance.

I've seen people using this phrase before and I still don't fully understand it. Please explain to me what "running at peak performance" actually means. Be as technical as you like.

BTW, I've heard 703's running off of a Denon 2x70W stereo amp and that to me was excellent - it was quite a large showroom too. So I assume this wasn't "peak performance" either? And I intend to run 703's off of a 4306 receiver which is more powerful but that wouldn't be at "peak perfomance" either right?

[Aussie Geoff]

Ade,

The B&W 703s are chameleon like. A good receiver will drive them well (they are made for high quality recievers to be able drive) - however really good separate amps just take them to a whole new level as far as many people are concerned (including myself).

So - will you be happy with a good reciever driving your 703s - almost certainly if that is what you have heard and liked.

However better applification will bring even more out of the 703s for you... You can get it now, or later or never - as your tastes and budget dictate...

A thought for you - reciever technology is in state of flux as HD-DVD and Blue Ray and HDMI 1.3 is coming out. If you just want stereo now - why not just get a good stereo amp and pre-amp now and upgrade later?

Geoff

[Ade]

Ade,

The B&W 703s are chameleon like. A good receiver will drive them well (they are made for high quality recievers to be able drive) - however really good separate amps just take them to a whole new level as far as many people are concerned (including myself).

So - will you be happy with a good reciever driving your 703s - almost certainly if that is what you have heard and liked.

However better applification will bring even more out of the 703s for you... You can get it now, or later or never - as your tastes and budget dictate...

A thought for you - reciever technology is in state of flux as HD-DVD and Blue Ray and HDMI 1.3 is coming out. If you just want stereo now - why not just get a good stereo amp and pre-amp now and upgrade later?

Geoff

Hey Geoff,

I'm still confused by this "whole new level" thing. I mean, these things will give out 90 dB's with 1w at 1m right? So how does 1w out of a 130w receiver differ from 1w out of a $$$ 500w amp? Surely the difference is only evident if you're driving the speakers at very high volumes? Or maybe I'm misunderstanding something here?

As for the HD-DVD vs BlueRay wars - I'm giving that a miss and will wait to see who the winner will be. My guess is that it's going to be a few years before everything settles down and there's enough material out there to be worth the effort - by then each and every standard will be version X above anything that'll be available this year too. Not to mention half the price. The 4306 has everything I need now.

One thing I know after working on the bleeding edge of technology - it's not always wise to be the first not unless you enjoy spending a lot of money to fight bugs and experience less than adequate performance.

[stantheman2]

Some reasons a higher-quality receiver, or better yet, a separate amp will get you better sound:

1. Bigger power supply to supply continuous loads, and bigger capacitors to store energy - better ability to handle transients and peaks.

2. Better damping factor - better control of woofers, which iresults in faster, tighter bass.

3. Better ability to handle varying resistance. An 8-ohm rating for a speaker is only "nominal". An "8 ohm" speaker's resistance can vary between 2 and 40 ohms over the audible frequency range. A better amp will be better able to supply the varying voltages and currents that the varying reistance requires - it will track the input signal better, and is less likely to "run out of gas". Note: a speaker's load on the amp is really much more complex than just varying resistance, but the same principle applies - a better amp handles a speaker's complex, varyinhg load better.

In my listening experience, the benefits of a better amp are audibly obvious at low and moderate listening levels, when, as you say, one watt would seem to be "enough".

[Ade]

Some reasons a higher-quality receiver, or better yet, a separate amp will get you better sound:

1. Bigger power supply to supply continuous loads, and bigger capacitors to store energy - better ability to handle transients and peaks.

When does bigger become big enough? Surely there is a point at which no improvement is possible or at least audible?

2. Better damping factor - better control of woofers, which iresults in faster, tighter bass.

I just read the Audioholics paper on this -Damping Factor: Effects On System Response - and that seems to rule out "damping factor" as an issue.

3. Better ability to handle varying resistance. An 8-ohm rating for a speaker is only "nominal". An "8 ohm" speaker's resistance can vary between 2 and 40 ohms over the audible frequency range. A better amp will be better able to supply the varying voltages and currents that the varying reistance requires - it will track the input signal better, and is less likely to "run out of gas". Note: a speaker's load on the amp is really much more complex than just varying resistance, but the same principle applies - a better amp handles a speaker's complex, varyinhg load better.

By "better ability to handle varying resistance" you mean the doubling of wattage for the halving of impedance that so few amps are able to do fully right?
I'm not familiar with the phrase "track the input signal better" - what does that mean exactly?

As for "running out of gas" isn't that dependent on how loud you're trying to drive the speakers? So (a simplified example) if I'm sitting 1m away from my 90dB/1m/1w speakers playing a 100hz frequency at 90dB and the impedance for that frequency is 8ohms I'll need 1w, if the frequency drops to 50hz and the load increases to 4ohms I'll need 2w and if the loudness increases to 93dB I'll need 4w. At what point does "running out of gas" at these levels become an issue in a scenario like this? Is it dependent on how fast the load changes or how often or just on the max load?

In my listening experience, the benefits of a better amp are audibly obvious at low and moderate listening levels, when, as you say, one watt would seem to be "enough".

Yes, that's what I've heard from others when they are talking subjectively but I've read blind tests that contradict this like the famous Stereo Review test done in the 80's (I think) - you can read the PDF here; Do All Amplifiers Sound the Same? .

I'm quite new to this hobby at this level - I've had HTIB before and that's what I've currently got but about 8 months ago I started to get more interested in mid/hi-fi so I've been reading a little here and there in preparation to upgrade my entire system. I'm from a technical background so I rarely take anything for granted and there seems to be a lot of subjectivity in this hobby; unnecessary subjectivity in some cases it seems (some people call it snake oil) and I'm just trying to sort out fact from fiction.

[franin]

hi how are you doing?
won't you get a denon avc-a1xv amp. you need a good amount of power to run those b&w's