Adding stereo amp to AV receiver?

[Herbonbay]

I just recently traded my B&W 805s for the 804s. I just couldn’t pass on the 804s closeout price. The way my mind works, taking back the 805s and giving the dealer another $1000 seemed a lot easier (cheaper) than spending $2800 in one pop.

The question I have means that I must admit on this forum that I have a Pioneer Elite 56TXi receiver. I’ve been very happy with the Pioneer and don’t intend on replacing it soon. BUT, and this is my question, I’ve been wondering if the 804s would benefit from an upgrade in 2 channel amplification. I’m fine with home theater. I never find myself critical of the audio while watching a video, however, music is an entirely different matter. I’m much more demanding as a music listener, some would say neurotic. Most of my music listening is done in stereo, so what I’ve been considering is using the preouts from the 56TXi to play the 804s through a 200 watt stereo amplifier. I’ve been looking at a used Rotel RB-991 or would consider a new RB-1080. In other words I’d use the 56TXi as a preamp for 2 channel stereo. My goal is to get the most musical potential from my 804s. My concern is this, will this setup throw my system out of whack in regards to 5.1 theater listening, or are there any other problems it might create. Thoughts please. Also, any opinions on the on the RB-991 vs RB-1080. I’ve also considered a 3 channel amp to run the fronts and center (RB-993 no current offering).

Regards Herb

[Andrew Pratt]

Those B&W's absolutly deserve a nice power amp. The Pioneer is a fine receiver but its internal amps are rather poor which means even a moderately low powered stereo amp would be an improvement. The 991 is essentially the same as the 1080 so see if you can find a used one.

[bb20038]

I have to agree. The addition of a 2 channel amplification will make a significant difference in stereo liistering. The additional wattage, by adding a 200 X 2 to the front's will not throw off your system, conversely it will make the whole system sounds better, allowing more resources for the remaining system.

Regarding the differences in the 991 and the 1080, the differences are minimal, Some changes in the capacitors, which you probably would not even notice through the Pioneer.

Congrats. on the upgraded B & Ws

[austriacus]

I have similar demands with regard to listening stereo. Herb, compare also the recommendations of Andrew to me (1080) in thread "Prepared for HT without Compromise in Stereo-sound?" on this forum.

To Andrew and anyone who has experience: I heard that sound exellency like (transparence, details...) is primarily depending on the pre-amp. So does a gear like the Elite 56TXi really fit to a Rotel 1080?

[junior77blue]

You could always get a stereo preamp to go along with the stereo amp.

As long as the preamp has input/output for the processing for when using with more than just stereo. Definately not the cleanest path for HT, but excellent for 2 channel audio.

[Andrew Pratt]

The Pioneer will hold back the sound quality you could otherwise expect from that amp...but there's always going to be a limiting factor somewhere in your audio chain. Think of the amp purchase as your first step towards seperates and then buy gear to fit into a long term upgrade path.

[Herbonbay]

Now lets not be too hard on the Pioneer. I was originally going to buy Rotel seperates. When I owned the B&W 805s, I spent several hours moving them around my dealer's show room, hooking them up to every Rotel system he had. I was predisposed to like the Rotel, I was expecting to be wowed, but I never got that tingle in my spine. When I noticed that the dealer had the new Elite 56TXi with the 5900 AVi disc player, I suggested that we give them a shot. I hate to say it, but I thought the Elite was warmer and smoother and took just a bit of the edge off Keith Jarrett's piano that made me uncomfortable with the Rotels. I also need to say that I love crisp distinct highs, which is why I've been a long time B&W fan. I bought the Pioneer. I do have to admit that I wasn't entirely happy with the solution, as I eventually traded up to the 804s, since the "WOW" I was looking for never materialized with the 805s. The 804s simply have much more range and depth and I'm absolutely happy with them. I have a feeling, that if I'd been moving the 804s around that dealer show room several months ago I'd have come home with Rotel seperates and may actually end up going in that direction. However, the fact remains that I only really need the extra power for the 804s, so 2 channel amping of the fronts seemed like a reasonable solution. Is everyone here honestly of the conviction that I'll really be giving that much up by using the Pioneer elite as a preamp? It doesn't take that much to plant a seed in my already growing audio neurosis. It's the "it sounds great but......" neurosis Regards Herb

[youngjun91]

Interesting I came up on this thread. I wonder if any of these people actually heard the 56TXi. I've had the Rotel 1056 receiver and the 56TXi in my room setup with my NHT 2.5i's. They were comparable, although different. The major disadvantage in the 56TXi was with piano which may have sounded a little too warm and maybe a tad congested. The power difference of the two favored the Pioneer on my inefficient speakers. And the Ilink connectivity definitely pushed the 56 on top. Some people hear the name "Pioneer" and immediately think mass market, can't be as good. Listen before you paint broad strokes. What specific criticisms do you have that you have actually heard for yourself?

BTW, I know the Pioneer is not the last word in transparency, so I too may get a two channel amp.

To Herbonbay, I'd demo the two channel amp with the Elite and a dedicated two channel preamp and see if you have a preference, and not rely too heavily on everyone's opinions who have never heard these combinations themselves.

[adinfinitum]

Heronbay,

If I may share my recent experience with you. Admitedly, I haven't heard the Pioneer but I have auditioned several AVR both for HT and music (Onkyo, Denon, Marantz, Harmon Kardon, Arcam) and decided on the Rotel 1055. I believe regardless of the brand, they're all sacrifices on 2ch.

I recently upgraded and initially just wanted a 2ch power amp to boost SQ. I auditioned both the Rotel 1080 and 1070. There was a noticable improvement and was set to fork out hard earned when, just for the experience I auditioned the same CD with a 1070 amp and a 1070 pre-amp.

Well, the difference was night and day. You are abolutely right. The power amp did boost the dynamics and especially bass extension but with the addition of the pre-amp, the sound stage opened right out and the sense of presence and transparency in the music was just awesome.

In the end, even though I recognised the bigger power amp was an improvement, I decided for similar outlay, the pre and power combo with the smaller power amp made a much bigger imrovement. Of course, there's always compromise and now I have lost some convenience as none but the more expensive Pre-amps have HT passthrough, it can be a little fiddly setting levels perfectly for HT. But I, like you, are more critical with my music listening and am happy to sacrifice a little convenience.

Of course, if you can afford both the 1080 (or other brand equivalent) and a pre-amp, then you can take another step . I don't own B&W but I've consistently heard they sing with the 1080.