Subwoofer to complete B&W 5.1?

[Angioguy]

Does anybody have experience with the Velodyne DD-10 versus the SPL 1200 ii subwoofers?

The subwoofer I'm looking for will be completing a 5.1 system consisting of a pair of B&W DM-330 (rears), B&W HTM4S (center) and B&W 803S (mains). The center and rear channels are driven by an Arcam AVR-300 receiver, and the 803's are driven by a McIntosh MC-402 power amp bridged to the AVR-300. My setup is roughly 60:40, HTure audio, and where audio goes, I listen to a broad range, from classical to hard rock.

The listening room is ovoid, roughly 14' x 30', with the sound traveling across the short axis of the room.

I'm looking for a musical subwoofer, with clean, tight bass, that's not going to be a chore to set up. I'm no electrical engineer, and I don't want to get bogged down with very technical schematics on how to set this thing up, but I am willing to spend the extra $$ if the DD10 clearly blows the SPL away.

I listened to the Revel B12 and B15, as well as a few of the Rel subs, but in the end, I think I'm partial to Velodyne... I just can't seem to decide between the DD and the SPL series.

Thing is, I've scoured the internet in search of reviews on these two subs and have come up with relatively little, which is what brings me to you, for your experience and thoughts, which are greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance!

[RobP]

Hello, I dont know what your budget is on a subwoofer, But I am running a Martin Logan Descent with my 803s and love it, it is VERY acurate for 2 channel and will tear the house down on movie effects. Not many subwoofers will do both, but the ML does. If you can give it a try.

[Angioguy]

Thanks Robert,

I'm going to see if there are any ML dealers here in the NY metro area. My budget is about $2000.

[Shane Martin]

Do you have any size/waf constraints? If not then the SVS PB12/Ultra 2 would be killer. Nothing requires difficult setup, it's tweaking it in to your preferences that becomes the bear.

[Kobus]

Exact same tread in B&W forum ??????

Kobus

[Azeke]

I concur with Shane the SVS definitely merits consideration. Tweaking the Sub is one of the most difficult acoustical adjustments, i.e. placement, xover, phase controls, volume, etc. Utilize AVIA/DVE to adjust your sub, (if it lacks auto-calibration), with a SPL meter.

Just my quick thoughts,

Azeke

[Angioguy]

Thanks,

I'm not familiar with SVS. Not sure who in my area carries it as well as Martin Logan, of which I have heard very good things-- both deserve looking into.

Kobe,

Perhaps a dedicated subwoofer forum might be the answer. Given the fact that the subwoofer is part of my home theater system, I thought posting here would be appropriate. Because I own B&W's, I felt that posting there was even more appropriate.

Any and all opinions are welcome, nonetheless.

[ThomasW]

With subs it'a ALL about displacement (amount of air moved). You've got a big room, so in the long run I think you'll be disappointed if you buy a sub with a single 10" or 12" driver.

Don't buy into the nonsense that smaller drivers are 'faster' or 'tighter'. 15" or 18" subs that are properly designed, perform as well or better than small drivers.

There are no 'easy' to set up subs. All require the same amount of work. And the amount of work is dependent on the placement and the geometry of the room, so it's the same situatiuon as setting up mains...

[Shane Martin]

SVS is online only thru their site. They are located in Ohio. There's a link where you can find all of the SVS owners out there on frappr. I'm sure one of them in your area would be glad to give you a demo.

Placement is IMHO the biggest hurdle because what sounds best for the sub may not work for your room or for that matter your WAF concerns if you have any. If you don't have any WAF concerns then put it whereever sounds best.

[george_k]

I bought a paradigm servo-15 v2 at a good price, very impressed with it and it's a pretty good bang for the buck

[Azeke]

I own the Sunfire sub by Bob Carver, and truly enjoy it. It was difficult to configure, but now it sounds great. Sunfire actually has a new sub which has the auto-calibration feature, you may want to add that to your list.

Best regards,

Azeke

[stewfoo]

DD-18 or bust!

[Angioguy]

Stew, don't you think the DD-18 might be overkill for a 14' x 30' space? My budget is about $2500 (tops) for a subwoofer, so I have a feeling I might be able to just swing the DD-10.

[stewfoo]

Well, I dont really think there is overkill with subs. If properly calibrated, the sub(s) will blend in seamlessly. All that you get is more headroom when you "over do" your subs.

The DD-18 is beyond most reasonable people's budget. I understand that. But, with you stated room dimensions of 14' x 30' .... If you have 8' ceilings, then you have 3360 cubic feet. If you have 10' ceilings, then you have 4200 cubic feet of area to be pressurized.

Assuming you are sticking with the DD series. Velodynes subwoofer suggestions based on cubic feet are as follows:
4200cubic feet: DD-15 or DD-18.
3500 cubic feet: DD-12, DD-15, DD-18
3000 cubic feet: DD-10, DD-12, DD15, DD-18

Now, it seems that according to Velodynes suggestions, your DD-10 may be pushing it to its limits. The problem with Home theater/audio is that people half arse it the first time and end up spending alot more money down the road by upgrading.
The DD-10 is a great sub. I think it would be a great move if you decide to buy it now.... and maybe a year or two down the road buy a second one to properly load your room. There are some very extensive Velodyne discussions on WWW.avtalk.co.uk You really should check it out.

[ThomasW]

This is what I'd buy if I didn't build my own subs....

http://www.audioc.com/speakers1/maestro/maestro.htm

[autio]

Before I built my IB I had my heart set on one of these http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=18080 I dont think you can go wrong at that price, good luck in your search.

PS I dont have any idea who is selling it (no affilliation) but if you buy it I do expect a modest commission :W

[gd]

Agree with stewfoo -- no overkill.

That 14 x 30 room is considered 'large'... and in fact, could likely support two subs... which, if your budget is firm, should steer you to one of the online makes, SVS or Hsu... don't be misled by their lower prices -- each of these mfr's makes serious subwoofers that leave little, if anything, to be desired... excellent with music as well as movies... for subs that must perform this double duty, I can't recommend either mfr highly enough... good customer service... 45/30-day trial and money back guarantee (sans shipping).

Bang for the buck, IMO.

[Azeke]

This is what I'd buy if I didn't build my own subs....

http://www.audioc.com/speakers1/maestro/maestro.htm

That's certainly a beautiful sub ThomasW.

Peace and blessings,

Azeke

[Angioguy]

Thanks for all your thoughts... I ended up with the Velodyne DD12. My room acoustics are horrible to begin with. After using the software to calibrate the sub, all I can say is, WOW! And I thought my B&W 803's sounded incredible! This sub blends seamlessly in my 5.1. Glad I went with the DD-12-- it was well worth the $$... I can only imagine what the DD-18 will do for a bigger space!