Subwoofer to complete B&W HT system?

[Angioguy]

Does anybody have experience with the Velodyne DD-10 versus the SPL 1200 ii subwoofers?

The subwoofer I'm looking for will be completing a 5.1 system consisting of a pair of B&W DM-330 (rears), B&W HTM4S (center) and B&W 803S (mains). The center and rear channels are driven by an Arcam AVR-300 receiver, and the 803's are driven by a McIntosh MC-402 power amp bridged to the AVR-300. My setup is roughly 60:40, HTure audio, and where audio goes, I listen to a broad range, from classical to hard rock.

The listening room is ovoid, roughly 14' x 30', with the sound traveling across the short axis of the room.

I'm looking for a musical subwoofer, with clean, tight bass, that's not going to be a chore to set up. I'm no electrical engineer, and I don't want to get bogged down with very technical schematics on how to set this thing up, but I am willing to spend the extra $$ if the DD10 clearly blows the SPL away.

I listened to the Revel B12 and B15, as well as a few of the Rel subs, but in the end, I think I'm partial to Velodyne... I just can't seem to decide between the DD and the SPL series.

Thing is, I've scoured the internet in search of reviews on these two subs and have come up with relatively little, which is what brings me to you, for your experience and thoughts, which are greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance!

[audioqueso]

I auditioned the SPLR-1000 vs the DD-10 (I believe it was 10) briefly at Tweeters/Sound Advice. It was a short 10-15 minute audition, so I can only say so much. The DD was more defined, seemed more natural in the very low frequencies. I found the two to have a similar sound from about 40Hz and up. There was a very small difference to me. I've never had the chance to use DDs EQ system, but from scottielee's thread, it's suppose to do wonders. For the price difference though, I didn't find the DD to be worth it to me because I didn't care for the DD's series EQ system. I have the SPLR-800 myself. The auto-eq worked pretty nicely. It blends in nicely with my 805s, and can (if I push it) play VERY VERY loud.

I choose Velodyne because I wanted a sealed sub. Even though I use my sub for HT/music, I auditioned strictly for music, and I have been very satisfied so far. No regrets. Your system is a bit more advanced than mine, but I think the SPLR-1200 will blend with your system just nicely. Btw, the Cherry finish of the SPLR line is a perfect match to B&Ws light cherry from the 800 series. Good luck.

[Karma]

HI Angio,
I really hesitate to jump in here because I have not listened to any of the subs you mentioned. So, I can only generalize.

It seems to me there are three performance areas that one must trade off when selecting a sub: 1. How low (deep) will they go with power; 2: How much distortion is produced at low frequencies and high volume; 3. Successful integration of the sub with the main speakers. Another mitigating factor is whether music or HT is your primary use.

I think subs are the most difficult of all speakers to buy. Unless you live in big city, auditioning a large selection of manufacturers and models to determine how a specific sub fits into the list above, is nearly impossible. For many, myself included, we must be content with the models our local dealers carry if we insist that we listen before we buy. Usually, this is a very small selection.

One alternative is to buy based upon reports from other audiophiles. I don't want to put my fellow audiophiles down but that prospect scares the hell out of me. No two people have the same audio priorities or experience. I see no guarantee that a purchase based upon anothers opinion will prove to be satisfactory.

In the end, I feel that a personal audition with the speakers you intend to couple with the sub be carried out. This may mean you will have to bring your speakers into the dealers showroom to set the demo up. That's OK. It will give you the right setup to make a judgement. I hope your speakers are not too big!

Sparky

[Kobus]

Out of interest, why is B&W not part of your choices. Those 800 series subs looks amazing and any 12 inch version will be perfect for your music (tight).

Anyway it would be interesting to know why you have excluded them.

Kobus

[Karma]

Out of interest, why is B&W not part of your choices. Those 800 series subs looks amazing and any 12 inch version will be perfect for your music (tight).

Anyway it would be interesting to know why you have excludede them.

Kobus

HI Kobus,
I agree strongly with your thought. I have two ASW800 subs in my system and I am very happy with them. I didn't mention them because they are expensive. But good subs are expensive.

Sparky

[rick c]

I dont know what your budget is but you should audition the Martin Logan Grotto.It is very musical and is great for HT as well..

[akhter]

Does anybody have experience with the Velodyne DD-10 versus the SPL 1200 ii subwoofers?

The subwoofer I'm looking for will be completing a 5.1 system consisting of a pair of B&W DM-330 (rears), B&W HTM4S (center) and B&W 803S (mains). The center and rear channels are driven by an Arcam AVR-300 receiver, and the 803's are driven by a McIntosh MC-402 power amp bridged to the AVR-300. My setup is roughly 60:40, HTure audio, and where audio goes, I listen to a broad range, from classical to hard rock.

The listening room is ovoid, roughly 14' x 30', with the sound traveling across the short axis of the room.

I'm looking for a musical subwoofer, with clean, tight bass, that's not going to be a chore to set up. I'm no electrical engineer, and I don't want to get bogged down with very technical schematics on how to set this thing up, but I am willing to spend the extra $$ if the DD10 clearly blows the SPL away.

I listened to the Revel B12 and B15, as well as a few of the Rel subs, but in the end, I think I'm partial to Velodyne... I just can't seem to decide between the DD and the SPL series.

Thing is, I've scoured the internet in search of reviews on these two subs and have come up with relatively little, which is what brings me to you, for your experience and thoughts, which are greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance!

I got the DD12 to go with my N804 and AVR300 combo. The extra EQ features were what sold me. Its funny, but I looked at the exact same subs, and ended up with the Velo because of superior integration. We warned though--you will spend 2-3hrs calibrating this little puppy becuase of the extensive options--but the results are so worth it. Also the onscreen frequency response display is a lifesaver. You will find that after adding this sub, you won't need the McIntosh to drive your fronts any more if you wire you sub to the F+R pre-outs and set subwoofer to NONE in the AVR300 setup options. I do this becuase I wanted to use the sub in stereo-direct mode.

BTW looking at you gear and you location, I'd bet that you got all your stuff at Stereo Exchange :T

[akhter]

Out of interest, why is B&W not part of your choices. Those 800 series subs looks amazing and any 12 inch version will be perfect for your music (tight).

Anyway it would be interesting to know why you have excluded them.

Kobus

I know that when I looked at subs, I didn't look at the B&W ones because they lacked good room correction features (my room needs serious help). They are forthcoming but they are not here yet, and will probably cross way more than the Velo options.

[Angioguy]

Thanks Akhter,

I think the DD is high on the list, especially for the room correcting features, which I believe the B&W ASW and PV-1's both lack. I still want to be able to drive the 803's with the Mac and have the sub integrated with the rest of my system. Is this possible with my current setup?

[akhter]

Thanks Akhter,

I think the DD is high on the list, especially for the room correcting features, which I believe the B&W ASW and PV-1's both lack. I still want to be able to drive the 803's with the Mac and have the sub integrated with the rest of my system. Is this possible with my current setup?

It is most certainly possible--but there are many options--that is the fun part. Since none of the issue I am refering are B&W specific, and the forum ninjas are quick to point that out and start moderating, pm me.

[Juan Cortez]

Yes the B&W subs lack the room correction, compared to the Velodynes. However if you wanted to you could still get the B&W sub, along side getting Velodynes SMS1 external room correction EQ which you can use with teh B&W. Its just a thought.

here is the link to Velodynes SMS1

Velodyne SMS1

[jericho]

I've an ASW855 and got myself a Velodyne SMS1 unite for room correction and it's just perfect now.My idea it will be a lot cheaper than getting the new speaker ASW875 which is comming soon with room correction.Everything is the same as the ASW855 it's just the room correction you get for the price of two SMS1 units.

[tech_table]

Just bought the Velodyne DD-15 last week, I love the way the sub performed, both music/ht are good, it's really worth the money for it, bought the thing cause it's a High Gain Servo-controlled subwoofers. Which other brand lack of this feature, plus I've thought of getting a cheaper sub and go with SMS1, but after I borrowed a DD-15, tried over the weekend in my family room, I really decided to go with it, you can't go wrong with Digital Drive Series. Well see for yourself, remember "The SMS-1 won't turn your subwoofer into a Digital Drive sub." well, listen to one of the DD series, and try one off brand sub with SMS1 on and see which one you'll like ???

*** Digital Drive Series (DD-10, DD-12, DD-15, DD-18) ***
The industry's first microprocessor-controlled, all-digital, High Gain Servo-controlled subwoofers with patent pending room equalization system.

Velodyne has achieved digital perfection with the Digital Drive Series subwoofers. The series consists of 4 digital subwoofers the DD-10 (10 driver, 8 piston diameter), the DD-12 (12 driver, 9.7 piston diameter), the DD-15 (15 driver, 12.7 piston diameter), and the DD-18 (massive 18 driver, 15.2 piston diameter). The Digital Drive Series features Velodynes revolutionary Digital Drive room management technology that takes subwoofer room equalization to a new level. This latest Velodyne innovation allows the subwoofers frequency response in any room to be measured and digitally corrected in real-time using a supplied microphone, and stored in the units memory to assure ideal performance in the consumers listening area.

* Features
* Microprocessor controlled with Texas Instruments computer chip
* Digital Drive room equalization system
* Digital High Gain Servo system
* Four listening presets for action adventure, movies, rock pop, jazz classical
* Transformer-less Class-D digital energy recovery amplifier
* Dual tandem voice coil and Kevlar-reinforced cones


*** SMS-1 ***
Face it - bass is tough to get right in most listening environments because of the relationship between your subwoofer and the room it's placed in. Now you don't have to worry about it. The SMS-1, featuring Velodyne's revolutionary Digital Drive room correction software, provides all the tools you'll need to adapt ANY subwoofer to the anomalies of your room. With all the features of Digital Drive, including full DSP control, an on-screen display and 8-band digital parametric equalizer, you can see your subwoofer and room's unique characteristics on your TV and adjust the sub's performance accordingly. Presets enable you to tailor the bass to your listening tastes and source material. The SMS-1 won't turn your subwoofer into a Digital Drive sub, but it will get the best possible performance out of it. The SMS-1 comes in a slim, one unit high configuration.

* Features
* Automatic or Manual In-Room Bass Correction with Included Microphone
* Full DSP Control
* Customizable Listening Mode Factory Presets
* Full Feature Remote Control
* Works with ANY Subwoofer
* 8-band Digital Graphic/Parametric Equalizer
* On-Screen Display

[nikos]

How are the DD's compared to Velodyne HGS 12X in price and sound??.

I'm going to pair it with B&W 604's , LCR600 center and DS6S3 surrounds...


Thanks for the input

Nick

[tech_table]

well, price ? I remember, before I purchased the DD-15, I was thinking of the HGs-15X, I've been told by the dealer it's $1999, so I planned to get the HGS-15X with the SMS-1, but turn out some where between $2600 for combo, and not recommended by by the guy, I used to buy stuff from, so I said why not DD-15 for $3000, but I have not listen to the HGX series, so I could not tell you how it's sound compare to DD, but since I listened to one of the DD, I started to like it. I think Velodyne does made some budget sub, they all good, depend on how much you want to spend. I use to try out, before I buy it.