Martin Logan electrostatics for theater/music?

[gcmarshall]

does anyone use Martin Logan electrostatics for home theater? or, do you have general experience with ML (specifically the Clarity model or others if not the Clarity). mainly interested in your opinio re: using this as 50/50 home theater/music and your thoughts on this?

[Karma]

HI,
I have used the Martin Logan CLSIIA's electrostatic panels for about 15 years. These are no longer made and were always controversial. They are full range stats with no built-in woofer. I use them in a stereo only system.

If one can limit the signal to frequencies to above 60 to 100Hz, they can be great speakers. Fast, tranparent, detailed, dynamic and they produce a spooky good image. If used full range, they are really only good for chamber music or other small scale music. They are very sensitive to everything in your system. You MUST use the very best equipment with them or they will show you all the warts.

I have subwoofers on them. I hi pass filter them to limit the input signal to 67 Hz and above. Under these conditions, they are quite simply the best speakers I have ever heard. Integration with the average subwoofer is difficult. I have the Kinnergetics SW 800 twin sub towers that were specifically designed for use with the CLSIIA's. The combo is to die for.

They are difficult to drive. Most amps will not do it well. I had success with the Audio Research D250 MkII Servo 250W per channel tube amplifier.

If one is willing to go to the trouble and expense, they will repay you with some of the finest sound available. I love them.

Sparky

[dyazdani]

A have a Martin Logan theater system - SL3s with a Logos center. I think they are outstanding for both music and HT (I'd say I'm about 60/40 HT/Music).

KevinP on the forum also has SL3s in his theater. I haven't had a chance to hear the Clarity.

[Kevin P]

Like Danish said, I have a pair of SL3s that I bought from Erik Farstad. They are wonderful sounding speakers for both HT and music. They have 10" woofers plus the electrostatic panels. I paired them with an Aperion Intimus 533-VAC center, 534-SS bipole side surrounds, and 532-LR bookshelf back surrounds. The Aperions and MLs blend surprisingly well, especially considering that the Aperions are at a fraction of the price point of MLs. All the speakers are driven by a Sherwood Newcastle A-965 7 channel amp. I also use a SVS 20-39CS sub driven by a Samson S700 amp. It also blends in well with the speakers, and I recommend using a sub with the SL3s, as low bass aren't really their strong suit.

All I can say is, if you can afford MLs, get them! They are some of the sweetest sounding speakers I've ever heard. They have a very warm, laid back sound, they aren't harsh or bright at all. If you're used to "tweetered" speakers, they might seem lacking in the high end at first, but you'll quickly discover that the highs are still there, they just don't make your ears bleed.

[77engineer]

I recently had a set of clarity and used them in a home theater with a Freso for the center channel for about a year. I was going to trade them back into the dealer I purchased them from a keep moving up the ML line but the dealer dropped the line. I really liked the sound of the Clarity's they were really clear and it really got me back into the mood to listen to music. I decided to try something a little different because I always thought they were a little light in the midrange and the bass department.

I tried a set of B&W 804s and really liked the sound so I bought a set. I have not looked back since I got them. They sound a lot like the ML's except the bass and the midrange seems to work a lot better.

Good luck on your decision

Adam

[hakalugi]

i have BW 602s and ML CLSs....

and the BWs were my L/R for music and movies until i got my ML's now it's no contest.

I tried finding (trying to find) a center that can keep up with them (i've tried on 602, the MtM kevlar (SS6?) by BW, 8 Orbs series/parallel, ADS Sat6s 2 way sealed with Peerless replacement woofer, Vifa MTM DIY sealed) all sounded colored next to the L/R martin logans.

and transients are just not fair... the mylar sheet in the MLs weighs less than a cubic inch of air (not a typo) so traditional woofs , side by side, just can't keep up. add the ported 'delay' of phase the 602s (et al) add, and it's no contest

the Orbs are close (4" speakers, no crossover, 'full rangers') and with multiples of them, distortion is low, and output nice--- and i run all L/C/R in 'small' for bass management reasons... but the Orbs like many sats don't have the midbass to make male voice sound genuine. I run the MLs full range for non-rap music, but even at "small" L/C/R mode, the Orbs (and i have Gallo's too) still sound small/thin compared with the CLSes. the 602 or ADS as a center can keep up midbass wise, but there's speed and coloration again.

If i was willing to EQ the coloration flat of the non ML center, that would be an option, but i want less in my signal path, not more

i run the MLs in 'high-pass' at 80hz now, and when my new pre/pro get's here at month's end, I'll try 60/70 etc too... but frankly, i may end up "matrix'ing" my center channel to my L/R and have NO center channel b/c of the way they shame other center's iv'e tried.

i wish it wasn't true b/c their not cheap and can be hard to find (mine are 20 years old and bartered for them and saved them from an attic) but they make me smile daily (their sound) and make me grimace daily (what they do to my other gear - show flaws). I'm just glad ML still makes parts for them (replacement panels, etc) - so if you see any at a garage/estate sale - get them, you won't be sorry.

Good luck,

Hak

Pushing them with:

2 of 3 channels from an 'original' Acurus 200x3 (350w into 4 ohms) Meitner Preamp for 2 ch. listening, and sony ES pre-out for HT.

[Karma]

HI hakalugi,

Wow, another CLS owner here! I thought I might be the only one. Do you have the original CLS or the CLSllA series (includes the Z)?

Do you think we should warn our fellow forum members about the extreme performance of these speakers or just let them find out for themselves? If we don't say anything, maybe they will try them, get hooked, get pissed because we didn't warn them about how demanding thay are, then finally, thank us for guiding them to an unsurpassed sonic experience. :twisted:

What do you think? BTW, what amp are you using on the CLS?

Sparky

[Joey_V]

I have the Vantage arriving tomorrow morning... yay!!

I have heard much of the ML line including the Clarity. PM me if you have questions.

Joey

[RandyL999]

I've been using ML Ascents, the Cinema and Descent for several years now in my HT. Probably 80/20 HT/Music for what it's worth.

I used to have a Yamaha RX-V3000 for the pre and was using Yamaha MX800 and some older Amber amps to push the MLs.

Less than a year ago I upgraded to Parasound C2/A51 for processing and power...

I liked my MLs before, but with the Parasound stuff added it's a phenomenal combination (to my ears). Had to go to a Denon 3910 to keep up, but the MLs will still expose bad source recordings!

Hope you enjoy the ML's, and I'd love to hear what you think of the Vantages when they arrive!

Randy

[armyscout43]

martin logans for HT'S

just go to the martin logan website and you will see that they already have been designing many of their great loudspeakers for HT AND STEREO USE..
LOOK AT THEIR VERY EXPENSIVE CENTER SPEAKERS AND REAR SURROUNDS?

MARTIN LOGANS SET UP AND OTHER EXOTIC HIGH END HT OR STEREO ONLY SET UPS CAN BE LOOKED AT
www.exoticaudio.org and there are related sites posted there by the moderator and audiophile whom the site belongs to. he's an online friend...

BOTH MAGNEPAN, MARTIN LOGAN, SOUNDLAB, EMINENT TECHNOLOGY, QUADS, AND VARIOUS PLANAR/PUSH PULL AND ELECTROSTATIC MANUFACTURERS DESIGN THEIR SPEAKERS FOR HT USE OR HT FRIENDLY..
Many of the older technology audiophiles prefer to just use the STEREO music listening only that is why they use basic high quality tubes amps and preamps with power conditioners and very high grade interconnects/cables.

But just about every manufacturer of high end equipment cater to the HT CROWD...KRELL, CARVER SUNFIRE, MARK LEVINSON, ADCOM, THIEL, MCKINTOSH, PARASOUND, YOU NAME IT THEY MAKE IT!

<cut>

[Joey_V]

Havent had much experience with ML and HT... but if their 2channel performance is any indication of HT.. they should be awesome!

[DrJRapp]

I just purchase a pair of ML Summit, their reference series speaker. I am awaiting my ML Theater i center channel before I comment fully on their suitability to theater. So far I really like the way the summits sound on 2 channel and they blend very well with my Klipsch Reference 7 series center and surrounds.

[dyazdani]

Awesome...

You will enjoy them thoroughly in full HT mode.

Do you have pictures up anywhere?

[ekkoville]

Wow Jerry, from Klipsch to possible B&W to ML's! You are really making the rounds. So, the B&W buy is out I assume.

[slaikan]

Congratulations! I think MLs are great speakers, I have a pair of old ML's, but they still perform very well considering their age. They have a different kind of sound, i've found that it 'difficult' to listen to the 'boxed' speakers after getting used to the MLs. It's all big boys toys from here, Mark Levinson, Classe, Audio Research....

What made you decide ML over the B&W's?

[DrJRapp]

Congratulations! I think MLs are great speakers, I have a pair of old ML's, but they still perform very well considering their age. They have a different kind of sound, i've found that it 'difficult' to listen to the 'boxed' speakers after getting used to the MLs. It's all big boys toys from here, Mark Levinson, Classe, Audio Research....

What made you decide ML over the B&W's?

I've been in this hobby for years. At 12 yo I was an early adopter of a new fangled multi-chnnel surround mode called....stereo! I went thru many configurations of equipment and may speakers, some home built untill I walked into an audio dealer one day and listened to a pair of Infinity Quantum IIs. I was hooked immediatly on the sound of the Emims and Emits (electrostatic mids and tweets). I couldn't afford the Quantum IIs at the time so I purchased a pair of Q3s which were also 3 way with Emims and Emits. I played that pair to death over the next 12-14 years, and never lost the infatuation. When the early 90s rolled around my speakers were old and I wanted to experiment with the latest in HT gear. Infinity was no longer the Infinity of old, and I couldn't afford any of their reference series, so I purchased a pair of Klipsch KG 5.2s with an Academy center and some surrounds. The KGs were replaced about 5 years later with Klipsch RF3s which were replaced a year later by RF7s. Last December my interest in 2 channel was rekindled and I have been progressively upgrading my system to be a top notch 2 channel performer with 7.1 HT as a secondary. I'd been progressively upgrading equipment and auditioning high end speakers including B&W 803D/802D, Wilson Sophia, VMPS RM40s etc etc. I'd been everywhere and nothing quite hit the spot. I the ML VAntage ( Summit's baby brother) but the local dealer had a miserable setup using a cheap Denon receiver so I wasn't very impressed. One Saturday I stopped into a dealer in Ft Lauderdale who showcased the Summits with Halcro gear, to begin what was to become a marathon day of speaker listening. I made my decision that day and got my Summits the Monday after. Once you've gone electrostatic the sound will haunt you forever.

[Karma]

HI Jerry,
Guess what? My given name is also Jerry though I go by the chosen nicname of Sparky. My Mom will never change. It’s Jerry most of the time and Gerald when she’s pissed. Never Sparky, no sir!!

I’m also an old hi fi vet starting with a Heathkit tube amp I built myself in 1956 when I was 14. It was 12W, I think. I’ve never left audio but got serious in 1975 with purchase of Dahlquist DQ-10’s along with two DW-1 subs used in a biamped, active crossover configuration. These subs stayed in my various systems for over 20 years. The DQ-10’s lead to my discovery of imaging; then a new idea. A couple of year’s later electrostatics entered my life with the Acoustat Model 2’s. I was driving them with HK Citation solid state electronics. Unfortunately, the Model 2’s were plagued by what Gordon Holt termed the “picket fence” effect. Eventually that drove me nuts and overwhelmed the air, speed and clarity of the Model 2’s. Time for a change.

Next came Apogee Caliper’s, a very fine speaker. The mold was set. I was totally in love with panel speakers. Until my very recent acquisition of my bedroom HT system, they were the only type of speaker I could live with. The Calipers were significant in that they presided over my change to Audio Research tube electronics, the SP8 pre and the D100 power amp. It was heaven.

The next few major changes were to my electronics. I swapped the preamp for an ARC SP10 and then acquired an ARC D250 MkII Servo power amp, then a Mark Levinson Model 26 pre finally traded for an ARC SP11 MkII preamp. During this process, I bought the Martin Logan CLSIIA electrostatics. They were great but run full range they lacked dynamic range and bass below about 50Hz. I did not run them full range because I was still using the Dahlquist DW-1 subs, now driven with a Mark Levinson Model 23 power amp (a great amp). It was clear that the DW-1’s were showing their age so I bought a pair of Kinnergetics SW800’s driven by the Model 23. These subs were designed specifically to mate with the CLSIIA’s and they did so beautifully. How could one ever go back to box loudspeakers? IMO, this speaker setup is simply the best I have ever heard. But I have not heard them all.

During these system changes I was upgrading my front ends finally ending up with what I have now: a Sota Cosmos turntable and an Eminent Technology Air bearing tone arm along with various good MC cartridges over the years.

I could write a whole article extolling the virtues of the ARC SP11 and the D250. The D250 is very special. It has a quality I have never heard in other power amps. I call it “Dynamic Linearity”, my own term. I should be good. It has 32 tubes which include 20 6550 beam pentodes. One empties their wallet when it’s time to retube.

So, that is my partial hi fi biography until about 4 months ago when I started putting a B&W based HT system into my bedroom with Krell KAV electronics. It’s very fine and I like it a lot it but pales when compared to my main Martin Logan system.

I love them stats!!

Take Care, Sparky