If you had $2000...

[rich0372]

I made a list of pre-pros under $2000 if you recommend any others please do

Rotel 1068 $1600
Sherwood-Newcasle $1500
arcam avx700 $2000
B&K ref 50 $2000

I'm looking to replace my pioneer elite 43tx my system is as follows:

Klipsch klf30 mains klf20s surrounds and 2 klfc7s front and rear centers
Earthquake cinenova grande 3&5 channel amps any other ? you can look in my profile
I am 50/50 music movies Thanks Rich

[jimmyp58]

...the ARCAM AVP-700 has a list price near $2,000 (U.S.) but it is actually $2,199...

A note on the Sherwood-Newcastle hot off the press....

Sherwood is going to announce on Monday that begining mid-August 2005, they will be incorporating 7 bands of parametric EQ to each of the channels of their P-965 pre/pro, R-965 receiver, and R-865 receiver as well as the subwoofer channel.

To quote the release, "An extension of the Automatic Speaker Setup routine that was added to these models late in 2004 as part of Newcastles's Field Upgrade program, SNAP (Sherwood Newcastle Automatic Parametric EQ) first measures the frequency response of each of the 7.1 channels using sophisticated 1/12 octave amplitude mapping. According to Jeffrey Hipps, Sherwood's Sr. VP for Marketing and Product Planning, "1/12 octave measurements allow us to concentrate the highest accuracy on the frequency bands that can most benefit from equalization." For example, there are 24 measurement points in the bass area between 20 and 80 Hz. SNAP then uses up to 7 bands of parametric EQ per channel with both adjustable center frequency and "Q" to improve in-room system response. "The results", according to Hipps, "are outstanding. My personal system, with its mix of di-pole and direct radiating speakers has never sounded better. Dialogue intelligivility is improved and surround effects, no matter where they are panned, sound realistic."

There will be no increase in MSRP due to this enhancement.

Nice stuff!

[aud19]

Nice new feature Jim! :T

[Andrew Pratt]

You have to like the titanium finish too :yesnod:

[soundhound]

I am biased, I would (did) take the Rotel. Very nice match with Klipsch.

[spyboy]

Outlaw 990, $1,100

[Legairre]

I sold my RSP-1066 for the Sherwood. Since your in CT (like me) you can get the Sherwood from the same authorized dealer in CA that I bought mine from(I'm not affiliated with them at all). Mine cost me $1150 and the Sherwood is software upgradable like the Rotel. If you want the dealer info just pm me.

[Nick M]

I second the Outlaw 990. It's made by Sherwood, and has even more features than Sherwood's Pre/Pro. $1,100 and the best direct customer service on the planet (after SVS).

http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/990.html

Pair it with their new Model 7125 125W x 7 amp which is $999.

http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/7125.html

If you buy both they give you a discount, and you can get them for $1898!

Hands down, one of the, if not the best value in bang/buck seperates. It's what I'm currently recommending to friends/family. I use the previous Outlaw Pre/Pro Model 950 with a Rotel RMB-1075 120Wx5 amp, but if I was purchasing new right now, this new outlaw combo would be mine!

[rich0372]

I have another question since I'm using my pioneer elite as a pre-pro already how much of an upgrade am I going to get when switching to a pre/pro My pioneer sounds good with movies but think it could sound better with music Thanks for everyone's input Rich

[Nick M]

There is alot of audio voodoo, but switching to seperates isn't.

I'm just your average joe too when it comes to my ears, no gold in 'em. :B

To me a good pre/pro eliminates that "thin" sound I've experienced from receivers, and an amp makes the sound so "effortless". The way I like to descirbe it is with water/waves. The water is like the pre/pro, and the force of the wave is the amp. A good seperates setup is like the ocean. Some of those $200 receiver's are like a 3yr old splashing in a tub... :lol:

I guess that makes a receiver + amp a super-soaker... :rofl:

[ThomasW]

I'll be the oddman out and vote for the B&K ref 50. Not glittzey, but solid engineering from a company that's backed it's products for decades and decades. So, good resale value if needed. They also occupy a stange niche' in the audio world. Not quite 'high-end', but close enough that most people can't hear the difference without spending kilo-$$$$ more for upgraded gear in the rest of their system.

[sikoniko]

I am currently using the sherwood p-965 in combination with the cinnenova grande 5. I am very happy with the combination and highly recommend it. Outlaw is made by sherwood but is a step down from the p-965 and dvi switching isnt future proof.

[Andrew M Ward]

DVI & HDMI

Outlaw is made by sherwood but is a step down from the p-965 and dvi switching isnt future proof.

DVI & HDMI are 100% video compatible ... and nothing is future proof

[Andrew Pratt]

True but isn't HDMI the future standard more so then DVI at least where audio comes into play?

[Andrew M Ward]

Absolutely DVI is gone

DVI is gone, true enough...

HDMI video standards are based on the DVI original standard. HDMI audio as it is today sounds really bad (seriously, i'm not just saying that) the sudio standard is not yet complete.

Any device with DVI's can be adapted to accept HDMI

[sikoniko]

when it comes down to it, it really is always budget based. the outlaw is cheaper than the p-965 i believe. We are always looking for the best bang for your buck so to speak.

we may agree to disagree. but..

and this is only my opinion, but if I had to choose 2 models. 1 with DVI and 1 without, the one with having lower quality parts and not as clean of sound than the second that does not have, the features would not outweigh the quality. Especially since the p-965 will soon be coming with autoeq, and there is talks to add hdmi switching in the coming months.

but then again, with HDDVD and BR-DVD coming soon, is now the right time to be buying a pre? why not wait 6 months? a lot of uncertainty right now.

[AndrewM]

HDMI and DVI are compatible, but there is the potential for a minor loss of video quality when going from HDMI -> DVI.

From a Secrets article;

DVI is an 8 bit RGB signal, while HDMI can be 8 bit RGB, or 8 bit, 10 bit, or 12 bit YCbCr. If you have a DVI source and DVI display, there will be no problem. If you have a DVI source and an HDMI display, again, no problem. If however, you have an HDMI source and a DVI display, the below-black video information may be lost in the translation. There is a bug in the Silicon Image HDMI transmitter that pops up when converting YCbCr to RGB. The HD TiVo and Pioneer 59AVi do not have this problem.

Even though source information (DVDs, HD) is all 8 bit color, if DSP is applied in 8 bit, such as in a video processor, rounding errors will toss out some of the data. On the other hand, if the data are 10 bit, such as with YCbCr, then the rounding errors don't occur. In fact, 14 - 16 bit is optimum for processing. Also, DVD data are YCbCr, and are converted to RGB in the player for the DVI output. RGB cannot represent all the data in YCbCr, and this is why the below-black information gets truncated.

[sikoniko]

yes but neither is compatible with hdmi 1.2 or whatever the new version is that will do DDHD and DTS+ or whichever...

[Legairre]

I knew the Outlaw 990 was made by Sherwood, but I wasn't aware that it was of lesser parts which could equate to lesser sound. I guess it only makes sense though. If I was Sherwood I'd agree to make a unit for a competitor, but only if it wasn't of the same quality and my companies unit. So the Outlaw may have HDMI switching and the Sherwood doesn't, but I'd take the Sherwood over the Outlaw and gladly give up the HDMI switching if the Sherwood sounds better than the Outlaw. Also since the Sherwood can be had new from an authorized dealer for $1150. My projector and DVD player both have DVI and I just use a macro programmed into the Sherwood remote to automatically switch the Sherwood and the projector over to DVI.

[Nick M]

I'd also be interested in seeing which parts are of "less quality".

[Andrew Pratt]

sherwood also is coming out with an add on device to act as a HDMI scaler for a very low cost that should be pretty cool for those that need it. Personally I have no need for HDMI switching at this time so I'd rather not pay for something I don't need but have the option of adding on should that need change in the future. I think we'll hear more about it at CEDIA

[Legairre]

Once the auto EQ is added HDMI/DVI switching is the only feature my Sherwood lacks, other than that it really has everything I need in a pre amp and Sherwood has been top notch with upgrades. I can live without the switching, it's really not a big deal to me, but if they offered an external switcher and it was low cost as you say then I'd pick one up. A lot of the switchers on the market now go for around $300 and thats move than my 30ft RAM DVI cable cost. If Sherwood's switcher was $100 I'd get one though.

Legairre

[jimmyp58]

No final pricing yet but will post when it becomes available.

[Legairre]

I just found out today that the Parametric EQ for current Sherwood p-965 owners is ready and we can ship our units back to Sherwood and have the upgrade done for a $100.00 charge. It's a hardware and software change so that's why we have to ship our units back. I don't mind the $100 charge since it's a hardware change.

New units should be coming off the line soon with the Parametric EQ already installed and with no increase in price, just like jimmyp58 stated earlier.

[jimmyp58]

Turnaround time for current owners is 1 to 2 days from the time they receive the unit from you.