for those of us who cant aford B&W 800's

[peterS]

what is a good pair of floor standers for 1000-2000 a pair?
some of the consumer level manufacturers offer things in this range too
how does this stack up to the paradigm and lower level B&W's that are almost exclusively suggested on this forum
thanks

[Alaric]

My Paradigms were $1600 for the pair-right in your range. Klipsch makes quite a few floorstanders in that range. A friend of mine uses a pair of Athena floorstanders and uses a sub-woofer to fill in the bass.

[peterS]

im just curious because ive been trying to build zaphs wave guides but never have time
plus im not to confident in my carpentry lol

[Alaric]

I'm very confident in my carpentry-I suck ! Of this I have no doubt. I've seen it suggested to find a local cabinetmaker and see what kind of cost you're looking at with that option. Maybe not ultimate low-cost , but could still provide you with a very good bang:buck ratio.

[peterS]

i kind of want my cake and to eat it too

great build quality, great sq, and great price

Monitor is one that appeals to me in terms of build quality...
having a carpenter build for me is more than my ego will allow at this point

i could probably do ok using my schools wood shop but veneering may be another story.
The consensus is that zaphs wave guides should compare acoustically with this price class?

[Burke Strickland]

The highly regarded Magnepan MG 1.6 goes for about $1,700 USD per pair retail, and I've seen them for about $1,000 on the used market, typically being sold by owners moving up to bigger Maggies that offer even more of the outstanding sound qualities that make the 1.6s such a great value. Having auditioned models from both Paradigm and Klipsch (as well as many others) in the same price range, IMO it isn't a contest. The Magnepans are true high end speakers at a bargain price. They hold up well in comparison to B&W speakers, although each do have different characteristics affecting the perceived sound stage and imaging. But speakers are perhaps the most personal of HT/music system choices, so listening in advance of purchase is always advisable.

As with just about any speakers for less than $10,000, (and actually including most above $10,000), if you want really deep bass at high volume, running a subwoofer with them is still advisable. Also, as powerful an amp as you can manage (high current; not necessarily high wattage) will get the most out of these fine speakers. They are a stable 4 ohm load, meaning they don't swing wildly from as low as 2 ohms to over 16 ohms like some speakers. I have successfully driven a pair of MG 1.6s with a Yamaha receiver (the DSP-A3090, which is technically an "integrated amp"), and with an Acurus 3x100 power amp, although they sound even better with a Bryston 9B power amp.

Good luck finding what will please you!

Burke

[peterS]

how do the MMG's compare to the Mg 1.6's

how are they different

[Burke Strickland]

Both the MG 1.6 and the MMG are floor standing two-way Quasi Ribbon Planar - Magnetic speakers. At $550/pair, the MMG is available new only direct from the factory, while the MG 1.6 is sold new through authorized dealers (listed on the Magnepan web site).

Even though the MMG is somewhat smaller (14.5" wide x 48" tall x 1.25" deep) than the MG 1.6 (19" wide x 65" tall x 2" deep) -- which perhaps is a plus for the WAF-- it still sounds pretty darned good, just not as capable of resolving as much detail at louder volumes, and limited to about 50 hz at the bottom end, while the MG 1.6 goes down to about 40 hz. With either (and with just about any speaker in this price range), you will want a sub for dramatic HT LFE .

With the money-back "offer you can't refuse" from Magnepan to try them out, the MMGs might be a good way to "test the waters".

[peterS]

very good advice i may do that
there would be the added cost of me adding an active x/o and subs to compliment though...


my only concern is that my cat will destroy the cloth covering

[Briz vegas]

my only concern is that my cat will destroy the cloth covering

Here endith the lesson

[Bob]

Usher

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrfull&1181742258

[bigburner]

Hi Burke,

Do electrostatic speakers struggle to produce the same volume as traditional speakers?

A friend recently purchased a pair of Quad ESL-2905 speakers and replaced them with a pair of B&W 800D speakers after two weeks. Whilst he loved the sound of the Quads they would cut out well before they reached the volume that he desired. This surprised me as the ESL-2905's were not only quite expensive (less than 800D's though) but they were also physically quite large too - 1430mm x 695mm x 385mm - and weighed 34.8kg each. He was powering them with a Meridian 300 watts per channel stereo amp.

Is this volume limitation consistent with other electrostatics?

Nigel.

[twitch54]

Take a look at the site www.AV123.com , there speakers have gotten some mighty fine reviews, my son has a pair of the Strata Mini's and they perform well beyond their price point !!

[draganm]

I would say an audition with any Electrosatic is very important. True with any speaker but especially so with a large heavy unit that's difficult-expensive to ship in case you need to re-sell. I haven't heard maggies but Martin Logans drove me from the room. I know the maggies use a Ribbon for the highs and this probably makes a huge difference.
A friend of mine has the Usher 6371's and loves them. I haven't listened to them yet but we have similar taste's in speaker voicing. They are well suited to larger rooms so if you have a small room they might be too much with the dual 7" woofers. Here's a review, these sell in the $2500. brand new

http://www.usheraudiousa.com/files/reviews/cp-6371-stereo-times.pdf

for my smaller 13 x 18' room I chose a pair of Quad 22L's that my Usher freind also recomended. These are just beautiful sounding, well rounded speakers with excellent detail and no sacrifice in musicality. The finish is also beautful , 7 coats of hand-rubbed Piano lacquer ( the Rosewood isi to die for).

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ddspkrfull&1181959272

They are easy to drive but you need abput 150WPC to really get the dual 6" woofers and bottom end to open up. They will also sound horrible for the first 150 hours but you have to be patient and wait for the magic to happen.

[twitch54]

but Martin Logans drove me from the room. D

Obviously they were not set-up correctly !!

[Alaric]

I haven't heard maggies but Martin Logans drove me from the room.

At least I'm not the only one. I thought the MLs were screechy and horrible. The bass seemed soft and "bloomy" and anything that wasn't bass was edgy and grating. Granted , the store I heard them in was not a ML dealer and took them in on trade , so they may have been using them as a contrast to their regular lines , but I thought they were awful. :throwup: Twitch is likely right. There have been a lot of very fine comments regarding ML speakers from people I'd trust. (Jon Marsh and DRJRapp for starters) I just don't think their sound works for me.

[peterS]

ive heard ML need an amp that can handle very low impedances... maybe that was the cause

[Briz vegas]

I've heard 3 ML systems (Ascent, Aeon i and the Aeon's predecessor - could have been aeoli.....no thats not right :-) in their natural environment (ie in peoples homes). They are very detailed and transparent sounding speakers. Two of the systems sounded very good to my ears, while the other was a bit dissappointing (I put it down to the room and a not so good source). They are notorious for needing lots of tweeking and the right partnering electronics.

Despite their good qualities I prefer the B&W 804s. I like the idea of electrostatics but I sit too close to my speakers due to the room shape. They need space.

[twitch54]

Not trying to 'highjack' the thread but those that have intrest / curiosity in Martin Logan check out our little corner of the web @ www.martinloganowners.com

[draganm]

At least I'm not the only one. I thought the MLs were screechy and horrible. The bass seemed soft and "bloomy" and anything that wasn't bass was edgy and grating.

that's what I heard too, I remember thinking "sounds like fingernails on a chalkboard". It could easilly have been set-up and room related though, I know matching an amp to speakers is even harder than matching a cartridge to a tonearm. So far I haven't had much luck with either LOL.
The one thing I have bought lately I really love and will be staying for a long time is my Quad 22L speakers. I wish they made an amp that was as highly regarded.

[Alloroc]

To move away from electrostatics you could always check out something from the likes of Dali, Focal.JMLab, Kef or Systems Audio.

Dali in particular has great price spread.

[Joey_V]

At least I'm not the only one. I thought the MLs were screechy and horrible. The bass seemed soft and "bloomy" and anything that wasn't bass was edgy and grating.

Guaranteed that if you listen to my ML setup, it's not screechy or horrible. Placement and upstreams are notorious for making MLs sound less than stellar.

Joey

[Joey_V]

Take a look at the site www.AV123.com , there speakers have gotten some mighty fine reviews, my son has a pair of the Strata Mini's and they perform well beyond their price point !!

Papa!

I didnt know your "other son" had Minis!

Joey

[Joey_V]

Hi Burke,

Do electrostatic speakers struggle to produce the same volume as traditional speakers?

A friend recently purchased a pair of Quad ESL-2905 speakers and replaced them with a pair of B&W 800D speakers after two weeks. Whilst he loved the sound of the Quads they would cut out well before they reached the volume that he desired. This surprised me as the ESL-2905's were not only quite expensive (less than 800D's though) but they were also physically quite large too - 1430mm x 695mm x 385mm - and weighed 34.8kg each. He was powering them with a Meridian 300 watts per channel stereo amp.

Is this volume limitation consistent with other electrostatics?

Nigel.

Quad 2805s could not, for the life of them, push any air whatsoever.... I auditioned and I left disappointed.

[Chris D]

Not trying to 'highjack' the thread but those that have intrest / curiosity in Martin Logan check out our little corner of the web @ www.martinloganowners.com

Not hijacking at all! We've turned to talking about electrostats and magnetic planars, so I think that's relevant.

I myself went to a local dealer last week for Magnepan, and sat down and auditioned the 3.6's. I was rather surprised that I was somewhat underwhelmed. The imaging was really nice, with the Maggies able to place a sound at any particular point along the front wall. But I had read that Maggies can create a much more non-directional sound. For sound precision and clarity, I was expecting a lot more. The tweeters were definitely less fatiguing than my Klipsch setup.

I'll give allowances that even though I called ahead for directions and to let them know I was coming in, I didn't know I would specifically let them know that I wanted to audition the Maggies. They said they usually take several hours to set the Maggies up, so when they pulled them out of the equipment room and set them up, they were less than optimal with only about 30-45 minutes setup time.. Maybe I need to audition them in person.

There was one time that I was listening to Martin Logans in a person's house, that I must have been sitting in a sweet spot or something, because the sound was incredible. It sounded like the sound was coming from all around me, or perhaps inside my own head, like I was in a perfect "node" of sorts.

99% chance that my next, and perhaps last, speaker upgrade will be to one of those two brands.

[Joey_V]

There was one time that I was listening to Martin Logans in a person's house, that I must have been sitting in a sweet spot or something, because the sound was incredible. It sounded like the sound was coming from all around me, or perhaps inside my own head, like I was in a perfect "node" of sorts.

99% chance that my next, and perhaps last, speaker upgrade will be to one of those two brands.

I will tell you that what you described re ML sounds just like my system!

And yes... come... come to the daahrk side, my friend! :twisted: :twisted:

[peterS]

I will tell you that what you described re ML sounds just like my system!

And yes... come... come to the daahrk side, my friend! :twisted: :twisted:

thats how the summits sounded of a rotel 1080
took me a while to figure out which speakers were on
only complaint was things fell apart quickly with low bass
could have been room placement, set up or some have suggested the amps instability at low impedances

[Pookie007]

I think Monitor Audio is worth a listen. I find their sound to be very similar to my B&Ws.

[twitch54]

only complaint was things fell apart quickly with low bass
could have been room placement, set up or some have suggested the amps instability at low impedances

It's the room and placement issue for sure, FYI, Summitt's and Vantage's are interenally amp'ed for the bass drivers. So other than your primariy amp feeding a 'clean and undistorted' signal for the lower registers that would not be the culprit. Also FWIW, the aforementioned M/L's have their impedence 'dip' at the top of the freq range, but were talking above 15k hz, so content is minimal.

[twitch54]

Papa!

I didnt know your "other son" had Minis!

Joey

Joey, yes and he 'scored' his at the old price of $1500, having listened to them I must say again that anybody looking in the sub 2k price range owes to themselves and their ears to take a listen.

[rick c]

To move away from electrostatics you could always check out something from the likes of Dali, Focal.JMLab, Kef or Systems Audio.

Dali in particular has great price spread.

I'll second these choices.Specifically the system audio's.I went from b&w 603s3 setup to System audio sa1750's and these speakers are amazing very fast and revealing.there is even a write up in hometheater mag.

[dknightd]

how does this stack up to the paradigm and lower level B&W's that are almost exclusively suggested on this forum
thanks

really only you can decide this. go listen. let us know what you liked, and bought, and why.

[Cambs12]

I have B&W CDM 9NTs,would love 800d,but in the meantime,i believe on the end of the right amplification,the 9ns sound fabulous..