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  • 2bluechris
    Member
    • Oct 2005
    • 77

    Power Cords - more about .

    I am saddened to see the Power Cords thread, started by Jaynaldo , is closed , and particually because there are some good points made by a few of the posters .

    Many people misunderstand about Wire , Cables , etc ... of all types used in Audio , AND , I do understand such , because we are not taught of the additional matters , but only about the simple matters , such as wire gauges and Resistance , and then Capacitance and Inductance only for R.F. and other high-frequency applications - above the Audio bandwidth .

    Consider seriously :- all ports in an Audio component are both Input and Output , despite their primary purpose labelled as either :- Input ; Output ; Mains Power . Examine a schematic diagram , for those who understand such , or consider this :- it is primarily a matter of the Impedance at the port , the degree it will operate mostly as an Input or an Output .

    Cables act as Aerials and pick up Radio frequencies and whatever else similar is in the area . R.F. thus gets into the CD player ; Amplifier ; Tuner {in other cables than simply its aerial} , etc ... This R.F. is seen as Signal the same as the Audio signal , and the component processes it as such , eg:- in the Feedback loops in almost ALL Active audio components , etc ...
    OK , so the mains supply is supposedly rectified and filtered , thus should be pure DC on the power supply rails in the component , but all filter capacitors are not effective over parts of the Electro-Magnetic spectrum , and owing to their physical construction all capacitors in the power supply sections have some parasitic Inductance , thus electrical resonances occur , and the high or low Impedance points associated with electrical resonances . These points are the frequencies which then cause problems in the circuit , eg:- intermodulation distortions ; reduction of Headroom ; etc ...
    So , to power cords :- yes all the house wiring , etc ... before , is ordinary wire , and this picks up the R.F. etc ... , which a power cord that is designed as a Filter can prevent getting into the component , in simply its short length . None of these will be perfect , and some will filter in different ways depending on their electrical design and construction , thus some filter part of the R.F. spectrum and not another part , etc ...
    There is more to all this than I have written above , however the above should be sufficient to explain that something is occurring .

    Different audio components differ in their susceptibility to R.F. input on the mains supply , AND , in some areas there is more or less interference than in other areas , thus the same component can exhibit greater sensitivity to a change of power cord type in one listener's home than in another's .

    For those listeners who do not hear any difference when a different type of cable is used , consider yourself lucky ! , and please let the remainder of us discuss these matters .
    Respectfully , Chris .
  • foeth
    Member
    • Apr 2006
    • 85

    #2
    Please read this COMPETING FORUM LINK NOT ALLOWED, ADMINS Interesting discussion[/url], before discussing the irrelevant issues as the ones you just addressed. So :

    Many people misunderstand about Wire , Cables , etc p
    which would include you, no offense. Oh, me too, but there are many excellent articles around the net explaining cables clearly. I repeat what I said earlier: the placebo effect is the only thing occuring with power cords. Just hook up your equipment and let someone else switch different power cords. You will *not* be able to tell the difference.

    I'd promised the mods I'd behave -can't use all the colorful metaphores- but I really enjoy cable threads being locked up.

    Comment

    • grit
      Senior Member
      • Jan 2005
      • 580

      #3
      Well, I for one appreciate the opinions of others, even when I disagree. No need to lock the thread, just let everyone post THEIR opinion without reference to each other and we'll be fine.

      Comment

      • Kevin D
        Ultra Senior Member
        • Oct 2002
        • 4601

        #4
        Moving to the general audio forum as it's not Rotel specific. Most likely will get out of hand and locked quicker there. Please play nice.

        Kevin D.

        Comment

        • Vince Helm
          Senior Member
          • Mar 2006
          • 134

          #5
          I agree with you 100%. Power cords can make a difference and as others correctly conclude, sometimes they do not. I have experienced it both ways in my system. I will say that the best single upgrade I have purchased was a power umbilical cable for my Musical Fidelity X-10v3, X-Dacv3 and X-PSUv3. The difference was immediate and huge!!! I've replaced the power cord on a few Halo amps and could not hear anything different. I added 2 dedicated a/c lines, upgraded the outlets and added a seperate subpanel, added Cardas RCA caps to all unused inputs/outputs... no change in sound. One night I took everything back to stock (except the MF power cord) and noticed a difference in the sound. I could care less about the white papers and fancy adds... all I care about is better sound (subjective) and sometimes power cords can make a difference.

          Thanks
          Vince

          Comment

          • David Meek
            Moderator Emeritus
            • Aug 2000
            • 8938

            #6
            Gentlemen, as moderator of this forum, I'll let this stand as long as it stays EXTREMELY civil and upbeat. ANY deviation from the high road and I'll slam it shut. Are we clear on this?
            .

            David - Trigger-happy HTGuide Admin

            Comment

            • David Meek
              Moderator Emeritus
              • Aug 2000
              • 8938

              #7
              Now, I haven't played around with power cords yet so I have no objective comments to make other than I do keep an open mind on tweaking (up to a point) and I plan on testing this bit of the spectrum at some time. I don't see how a power cord can make an audible or visual difference, although I do see how a power conditioner/filter can. But, they both conduct/affect the electricity powering our components so where do you draw the line?
              .

              David - Trigger-happy HTGuide Admin

              Comment

              • Danbry39
                Moderator Emeritus
                • Sep 2002
                • 1584

                #8
                Yes, let's play pleasantly. :M :M :evil: :evil: Oops, I meant

                I've experienced the same thing as Vince, sometimes it did improve the sound and other times...nothing.

                I don't think it is a placebo effect, as I was, at least in part, trying to dispell the "myth" that power cords could make a difference.

                When I addressed this to some EE's, they told me pretty much the same thing as 2bluechris.

                Could I be wrong.................well, duh, that happens frequently. ops:
                Keith

                Comment

                • grit
                  Senior Member
                  • Jan 2005
                  • 580

                  #9
                  Well, as Chris (I think) pointed out, we all have different sources of power and different levels of interference too. That alone seems to explain why some people notice a difference and others do not. In addition, different pieces of electronics may do a better/worse job at filtering power, further increasing/decreasing the benefit of a change in power cords.

                  As always, I'm interested to hear about other people's experiences and opinions about them.

                  Comment

                  • Race Car Driver
                    Super Senior Member
                    • Mar 2005
                    • 1537

                    #10
                    I guess it all comes down the "Your system is only as good as the weakest link" statement.

                    If your weakest link is the power cord/device then yes, I could see a difference being apparent.

                    But if you are running through non grounded wiring that is older then your grandma through a fused circuit.... well there ya go!
                    B&W

                    Comment

                    • foeth
                      Member
                      • Apr 2006
                      • 85

                      #11
                      If your weakest link is the power cord/device then yes, I could see a difference being apparent.

                      But if you are running through non grounded wiring that is older then your grandma through a fused circuit.... well there ya go!
                      That's the whole point. You really really really need to do your best designing the worst possible powercord if you want to hear an improvement. It's just bare unshielded no anything wire running through your house. Of course a new powercord isn'g going to rectify anything that might have happened... and if it were that easy, wouldn't anyone want to implement that in the receiver? Of course...

                      Comment

                      • 2bluechris
                        Member
                        • Oct 2005
                        • 77

                        #12
                        selected paragraphs here for clarity :-

                        foeth , I'll make one attempt , here below is from what I wrote :-
                        Originally posted by 2bluechris
                        So , to power cords :- yes all the house wiring , etc ... before , is ordinary wire , and this picks up the R.F. etc ... , which a power cord that is designed as a Filter can prevent getting into the component , in simply its short length . None of these will be perfect , and some will filter in different ways depending on their electrical design and construction , thus some filter part of the R.F. spectrum and not another part , etc ...
                        There is more to all this than I have written above , however the above should be sufficient to explain that something is occurring .

                        Different audio components differ in their susceptibility to R.F. input on the mains supply , AND , in some areas there is more or less interference than in other areas , thus the same component can exhibit greater sensitivity to a change of power cord type in one listener's home than in another's .

                        .
                        I am familiar with blind tests , etc ... If there was nothing in all this I would not spend any time discussing it , because I am not going to support Manufacturers of products that cannot work .
                        Through-out human history people discovered various things emperically , and were ridiculed for making claims about - things that much later some hard factual evidence was found for . It is sensible to doubt things that do not seem possible , but to assert something cannot be needs to be carefully considered , because if everything that once seemed impossible was never investigated then we would not have most of what we use today , likely including the communications systems that enable us to participate in this forum .

                        Thankyou to every-one else who has commented so far for your thoughts and reports of findings . There is useful discussion so far that can be of assistance to people who are new to this and who may be having trouble with some Audio Salespeople - I think you will all know the type !

                        Comment

                        • foeth
                          Member
                          • Apr 2006
                          • 85

                          #13
                          Through-out human history people discovered various things emperically , and were ridiculed for making claims about - things that much later some hard factual evidence was found for .
                          I agree, but so far nobody can come up with any hard evidence that a power cord indeed does make a difference, I see no reason to think it actually does. And these tests have been performed; no positive tests so far. If a salesperson tries to sell you a cord because it makes a difference, he's lying! As is the case in many cable discussions. Cables can make a difference and there are nasty effects, but no well-made cable should be better than any other. Most of the time it's just a little higher resistance and so forth, or better shielding, or a new (unwanted) ground loop.

                          Comment

                          • Vince Helm
                            Senior Member
                            • Mar 2006
                            • 134

                            #14
                            OK, some us have had good results and some have not. Some have faith that good results can be achieved and some do not. That's all OK. What would be nice to see in this forum is not so much a discussion on the possibilities but rather the results. Specific examples on what cord did or did not work with your equipment etc.

                            I would like to know if anyone has used the audio grade 10/2 house wiring to run dedicated A/C lines? What about those who have upgraded their A/C outlets? Has anyone tried the new higher end audio grade fuses? What about ERS paper? What about the new Noise Harvester?

                            A question to the administrator. Can we talk about brand names as part of the discussion?

                            Thanks
                            Vince

                            Comment

                            • chasw98
                              Super Senior Member
                              • Jan 2006
                              • 1360

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Vince Helm
                              I agree with you 100%. Power cords can make a difference and as others correctly conclude, sometimes they do not. I have experienced it both ways in my system. I will say that the best single upgrade I have purchased was a power umbilical cable for my Musical Fidelity X-10v3, X-Dacv3 and X-PSUv3. The difference was immediate and huge!!! I've replaced the power cord on a few Halo amps and could not hear anything different. I added 2 dedicated a/c lines, upgraded the outlets and added a seperate subpanel, added Cardas RCA caps to all unused inputs/outputs... no change in sound. One night I took everything back to stock (except the MF power cord) and noticed a difference in the sound. I could care less about the white papers and fancy adds... all I care about is better sound (subjective) and sometimes power cords can make a difference.

                              Thanks
                              Vince
                              Vince:
                              It appears that you have heard a significant difference and also verified it by going back to the way it was and then changing to the way that made a difference. Therefore, your results are repeatable. If your results are repeatable, then they can be measured. What it is that should be measured is another question. I would like to see one of these power cord manufacturers take a case like like yours and spend the time to show in black & white what is changing from before & after. They all make claims, but hard technical evidence is few and far between. As mentioned previously, you may live in an area where your power is different from my power or there is a special difference in your power that yields these results and would not yield it at my house. But I would still love to know what is really changing when this cord is being used. And if the cord does affect the sound in a good way, why not do it to the whole power transmission right from the breaker box if needed! It is almost as if the "audiopile power cord manufacturers association" brings this on themselves by not backing up their claims with technical evidence. Why it could be that one cord would do wonders if you had a particular problem and another cord would work for another problem, but we just don't know and they (the manufacturers) don't help that much. Just my opinion.

                              Chuck

                              Comment

                              • 2bluechris
                                Member
                                • Oct 2005
                                • 77

                                #16
                                Indeed Manufacturers do bring this on themselves , and I do not like that lack of Data & Measurements , etc ... Kimber may have something on their site - I haven't looked at it recently .

                                A few years ago Ken Kessler , who writes for "Hi-Fi News" had a new listening room added to his home , and , had it wired by the Electrician with a specifically chosen audio power cable wire type direct from his fuse box to the new room and to power point and distribution box there-in .
                                He described the entire set-up , and results of his listening tests - I think he may have had 2 different wire brands - 2 circuits , but I have forgotten .
                                If I can find that issue of the mag. I will post its date in this thread , and maybe some of his report , but don't hold your breath any-onr , because I don't know exactly where the magazine is .

                                Comment

                                • calgaryguy
                                  Junior Member
                                  • Apr 2005
                                  • 10

                                  #17
                                  Brand name recommendations....Rotel specific

                                  As I had mentioned earlier in the now locked thread, I had originally recommended the Harmonic Technology Pro AC 11 Power cord in addition to the Acoustic Zen Tsunami Plus. Both of these power cords mate well with Rotel electronics. Another cord that is very very good (and reasonably priced as well) is the Silver Audio Powerburst 2. One power cord that I would NOT recommend for Rotel equipment is the Synergistic Research A/C Master Coupler. I know this particular power cord is famous ...but it makes the Rotel equipment sound considerably harsher....bright...with etched treble.....!

                                  I know there has been considerable debate and even some arguing regarding power cords. All I can say is try some aftermarket power cords....If you don't like them, you can sell them used on Audiogon and cut your losses. There are of course many varying opinions regarding power cords. Case in point: Virtual Dynamics is a VERY high end power cable company which produces some of the very best power cables on the market (also the most expensive !!!). Almost every Audio publication has review one or a series of cables from their product lineup with nothing but praise and recommendation. I recently came across a UK magazine (believe it was called Hi Fi News) that reviewed Virtual Dynamics Master Series cable (their second best cable) and they said they heard absolutley NO difference compared to a stock cable. I personally find this difficult to believe, however, it does prove to show that even hi-end golden ear audiophiles cannot agree on something like whether or not upgraded power cords can make a difference.

                                  One thing that I can add is that I believe the quality of components one owns will be a limiting factor to how much a power cord can make an audible difference. I say this based on my own personal experience. Up until around two years ago, I had never purchased an upgraded power cord (and I've been in this hobby for over 30 years!). The very first power cord I purchased was the Harmonic Technology Pro AC11. I was stunned by the improvement in my system that I decided to try other various power cords (Audience Powerchord, Elrod ESP 3, Harmonix Studio Master, Acoustic Zen Tsunamic plus, Silver Audio Powerburst 2). As I moved up in perceived quality level (and price), I noticed that I was no longer experiencing the HUGE benefit that I had when I originally moved from a stock power cord to the Harmonic Technology. In some cases, I did not hear a difference from a $200 power cord vs a $600 power cord.

                                  As I upgraded my components to higher end pieces and started swapping power cords again, the differences in the cords were certainly more noticeable. In the end, you may have a snazzy new power cord, but if your components are currently performing at their peak, an upgraded power cord may result in no sonic gains.

                                  calgaryguy

                                  Comment

                                  • Vince Helm
                                    Senior Member
                                    • Mar 2006
                                    • 134

                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by chasw98
                                    Vince:
                                    It appears that you have heard a significant difference and also verified it by going back to the way it was and then changing to the way that made a difference. Therefore, your results are repeatable. If your results are repeatable, then they can be measured. What it is that should be measured is another question. I would like to see one of these power cord manufacturers take a case like like yours and spend the time to show in black & white what is changing from before & after. They all make claims, but hard technical evidence is few and far between. As mentioned previously, you may live in an area where your power is different from my power or there is a special difference in your power that yields these results and would not yield it at my house. But I would still love to know what is really changing when this cord is being used. And if the cord does affect the sound in a good way, why not do it to the whole power transmission right from the breaker box if needed! It is almost as if the "audiopile power cord manufacturers association" brings this on themselves by not backing up their claims with technical evidence. Why it could be that one cord would do wonders if you had a particular problem and another cord would work for another problem, but we just don't know and they (the manufacturers) don't help that much. Just my opinion.

                                    Chuck

                                    Thanks Chuck,

                                    I agree with you 100%. Even if they could produce the requested and desired material it would still be an subjective experience in your/my home. So, all the techo papers do us no good because the sound is what matters. We might be able to better understand the effects if all components had the same parts and power supplies etc... But, please know that power umbilical cable I used for the Musical Fidelity X-stack was made from 5n silver and shielded very well (revelationaudiolabs.com). The stock cable was junk and yes, I took it apart to see for myself. The umbilical cable is 12v DC and not 120V AC. Also, the "difference" I heard from all the other AC stuff was not all that big... but I did hear a more compressed sound when going back to stock AC. I really did not expect to hear any differences but I did, and now I am curious enough to experiment with the AC cord in the spirit of "better" sound with less regard to "better" science. I listen with my eyes closed in a darkened room. Could not "see" the science even if it is in the room with me.

                                    Thanks
                                    Vince

                                    Oh, I also think that you need very high resolution components and speakers to really hear what audio and AC cables can do. No, I do not own such equipment.

                                    Comment

                                    • foeth
                                      Member
                                      • Apr 2006
                                      • 85

                                      #19
                                      So, all the techo papers do us no good because the sound is what matters.
                                      <removeded by Admin> There are more than enough papers, both techno as well as experimental. Neither one can confirm the effect of the "special" power cord (I wonder why). But the bottom line is: if you are happy with it, knock yourself out. If you want to buy a power cord and believe your hear the improvement, great. But when you start to refute known facts and claim that you can hear what science cannot measure you're on a very slippery slope. The "improvement" in powercords remains psychological, even though I'm quite willing to except any PROOF that I'm completely wrong. I say to each his own, but not when giving advice...

                                      Anyway, cloud 9 may continue this discussion...

                                      Comment

                                      • David Meek
                                        Moderator Emeritus
                                        • Aug 2000
                                        • 8938

                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by Vince Helm
                                        A question to the administrator. Can we talk about brand names as part of the discussion?
                                        As our primary sponsoring company doesn't make power cords, I'll allow it for comparative purposes and to help outline design parameters. No "my XYZ cord smokes your ABC" comments or anything like that will be allowed.
                                        .

                                        David - Trigger-happy HTGuide Admin

                                        Comment

                                        • foeth
                                          Member
                                          • Apr 2006
                                          • 85

                                          #21
                                          As our primary sponsoring company doesn't make power cords, I'll allow it
                                          Wow, that is really objective....!

                                          Comment

                                          • Spearmint
                                            Senior Member
                                            • Sep 2004
                                            • 333

                                            #22
                                            I guess I fall into the camp of I have difficulty in the understanding of how a power cord can make a significant difference, subtle differences I can probably get my mind around.

                                            For the purpose of the discussion, those that have felt that a replacement power cable made a significant difference is your HT gear being powered by a dedicated circuit or not? If you are using a shared circuit and you are experiencing voltage sag then a heavier duty power cord may make a difference although I’m not sure how.

                                            In my HT I have three dedicated power circuits two behind the audio rack and one inside the room for the subs and video etc. I also put 3phase into my house and all the problem rooms i.e. kitchen, laundry etc are on a different phase to my HT room. All the lighting circuits with dimmers are on a different phase as well. I have to admit I’ve never tried an expensive power cord, but swapping existing cords that come with the equipment to heavier duty cords makes no sonic difference with my system. Maybe because we operate at 240v may make a difference I’m not sure.

                                            Here is a photo behind my rack. The top 12 points are on one circuit and the bottom 12 on another.
                                            Attached Files
                                            Richard

                                            "Sometimes it is easier to ask forgiveness than to get permission... "

                                            Comment

                                            • Andrew M Ward
                                              Senior Member
                                              • Apr 2005
                                              • 717

                                              #23
                                              I enjoy these cable discussions where there more on the philosophical level rather than on the atomic level.... as my number on fan once said:

                                              Originally Posted by wkhanna:

                                              Have you ever had a sip of wine from a Riedel wine glass?
                                              The contour of the vessel, texture and dimension of the rim, wall thickness of the bowl, the care and craftsmanship of hand blown glass. The way the diameter of the rim effects how the fragrance is delivered to your nose. These are just a few of the features that supposedly effect your “perception” of the wine.

                                              This little gem was casually tossed out there during an “interconnect” discussion, of course it was skipped right over and nobody cared what the point was that my number one fan was trying to make (sadly)

                                              But:
                                              We buy things for a myriad of reasons, from the obvious to the utterly sublime and everywhere in between.

                                              I buy high grade cables for a whole bunch of reasons, none of which should matter to anybody else... (apparently only dr. Jerry Rap Knows why I do)

                                              but for some reason a huge number of us want others to feel as we do, probably because (as somebody really smart once said) "all language is persuasion…"

                                              So if a guy buys a power cord he probably wants to confirm to others his purchase, why? Because “that is the human condition”. We want people to feel like we do or at least understand us and be a part of something greater than (well frankly) ourselves…

                                              So ultimately that’s all this discussion is...

                                              Whether power cords make a difference is as meaningless as Denon versus Yamaha (or something like that)

                                              What matters is what I say… oops was that my inside voice… what I meant to say was wkhanna is right it’s like high-end wine glasses or chocolaty midranges and first order crossovers… (yummy) don’t worry about what other people think (unless they’re stupid and you must shame them) enjoy the moment (pass me beer I’m parched over here)

                                              What was I saying?

                                              Comment

                                              • chasw98
                                                Super Senior Member
                                                • Jan 2006
                                                • 1360

                                                #24
                                                Now maybe you power cord afficianados can educate me. I do believe we are not talking about power conditioning or power filtering, just getting the voltage from point A to Point B. If this is correct, I have some questions.
                                                01) A power cable consists of a plug.
                                                02) A receptacle.
                                                03) The wire in between.

                                                I can understand better quality mechanical devices (plugs and receptacles) possibly having an effect, and I can understand wire having an effect. Now, the type of wire falls into 2 broad categories, I believe. Shielded & unshielded. The wire must be constructed in such a way as to carry the current load demanded by the device it is to power. So what makes a hi end power cord so special? And if you are using a hi end power cord, does it not make sense that if it makes a difference, then every piece of equipment in your kit ought to have one. This could get rather expensive.

                                                Personally, a boutique power cord will probably be one of the last things I would ever use in my system. I would sooner rewire from a seperate isolated sub panel using a very large balanced power rig and then use hi grade electrical receptacles at the end of the line. Then maybe a hi end power cord would possibly be considered. I have seen no mention of anyone here using balanced power or isolated subpanels. Please educate me as to why you use these power cords? I am trying to understand, but to my feeble mind, there are a lot of other mods I would complete before a power cord.

                                                Chuck

                                                Comment

                                                • Chris D
                                                  Moderator Emeritus
                                                  • Dec 2000
                                                  • 16877

                                                  #25


                                                  Wow, Richard, that's quite the panel! Good job for you, man. I didn't know that Australia uses those plugs. I can't tell from that distance--are they UK-style plugs? Makes sense, I suppose.
                                                  CHRIS

                                                  Well, we're safe for now. Thank goodness we're in a bowling alley.
                                                  - Pleasantville

                                                  Comment

                                                  • VikingP
                                                    Junior Member
                                                    • Feb 2005
                                                    • 28

                                                    #26
                                                    Hi,

                                                    Just wanted to add my 0.02$.

                                                    First of all, what I understood from some posts in this thread is that some affirm that there are audible differences that cannot be measured and quantified between power cords. But in this case:
                                                    Originally posted by 2bluechris
                                                    Cables act as Aerials and pick up Radio frequencies and whatever else similar is in the area . R.F. thus gets into the CD player ; Amplifier ; Tuner {in other cables than simply its aerial} , etc ... This R.F. is seen as Signal the same as the Audio signal , and the component processes it as such , eg:- in the Feedback loops in almost ALL Active audio components , etc ...
                                                    OK , so the mains supply is supposedly rectified and filtered , thus should be pure DC on the power supply rails in the component , but all filter capacitors are not effective over parts of the Electro-Magnetic spectrum , and owing to their physical construction all capacitors in the power supply sections have some parasitic Inductance , thus electrical resonances occur , and the high or low Impedance points associated with electrical resonances . These points are the frequencies which then cause problems in the circuit , eg:- intermodulation distortions ; reduction of Headroom ; etc ...
                                                    I would say that the differences can be measured with technology that we have today. A PSU's impedance, as well as the resonance points can be measured and quantified, thus the effects of using power cord A vs using power cord B can be measured for a given audio component, and put into clear and undisputable numbers. Furthermore, these measurements should also be repeatable without much problem, given that the experiment is in a somewhat similarly controlled environment, and that the gear being used is the same (an experiment's repeatability is key in establishing its legitimacy).

                                                    And second, when discussing technical differences, one can only rely on measurements, and not subjective impressions. The reason is that the human central nervous system (SNC) is very powerful, both physiologically and psychologically, and can lead to erroneous results which cannot be accounted for due to the enormous amount of factors that can influence it.

                                                    Originally posted by 2bluechris
                                                    Through-out human history people discovered various things emperically , and were ridiculed for making claims about - things that much later some hard factual evidence was found for .
                                                    Yes, the above statement is true, but most of these discoveries came from observed physical (chemical, biological, etc) phenomenon, and the observations came from quantifiable results, which cannot pertain to our discussion, because in this case, the end results are perceived impressions, which can be highly influenced by external factors (as previously mentioned) which have no direct or indirect link to what is observed (difference between power cord A and power cord B).

                                                    Lastly, I would like to ask this question: Why are there no published large scale, double-blind, placebo controlled, multi-centered, randomized studies on the difference between power cords? The relative cost of such a study would be a deterrent, but with the money some cable companies spend on marketing, one would wonder why no such studies have been published by these companies which claim audible differences.
                                                    If such a publication does exist, then I would gladly appreciate if someone could point me in its direction.

                                                    Paul

                                                    Comment

                                                    • Spearmint
                                                      Senior Member
                                                      • Sep 2004
                                                      • 333

                                                      #27
                                                      Originally posted by Chris D


                                                      Wow, Richard, that's quite the panel! Good job for you, man. I didn't know that Australia uses those plugs. I can't tell from that distance--are they UK-style plugs? Makes sense, I suppose.
                                                      Thanks Chris.

                                                      That was an early photo it looks a bit tidier now plus more sockets are populated with the addition of more gear.

                                                      BTW the white bulky plug unit with the neon plug inserted operates via IR, so I have it programmed into my remote to turn on/off units that either have no remote or no 12v trigger.

                                                      Our plugs are different from the UK variety.


                                                      Here is an example of our wall sockets.


                                                      And this is an example of the plugs.
                                                      Last edited by Chris D; 05 December 2016, 12:33 Monday.
                                                      Richard

                                                      "Sometimes it is easier to ask forgiveness than to get permission... "

                                                      Comment

                                                      • foeth
                                                        Member
                                                        • Apr 2006
                                                        • 85

                                                        #28
                                                        I can understand better quality mechanical devices (plugs and receptacles) possibly having an effect, and I can understand wire having an effect. Now, the type of wire falls into 2 broad categories, I believe. Shielded & unshielded. The wire must be constructed in such a way as to carry the current load demanded by the device it is to power.
                                                        It influences the cable's resistance. You're not going to notice anything as your receiver is quite able to correct for current variations. The current supplied to your equipment is not always so steady. I believe the power company can even have a 10% deviation before you can even begin to complain. Still, no problems with your audio. Now, you do not need to shield a power cable as all kinds of nasty interference are irrelevant compared to the lousy power signal from your power socket. Well, that is, the cable can be a source of interference if you were stupid enough to put your speaker cable right on top of your powercord for some length, and why would you do that? If you do have trouble with your power supply, use a netfilter. A problem solving power cord is 100% fraud.



                                                        More here http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/...ples/index.php
                                                        Last edited by foeth; 01 July 2006, 05:09 Saturday.

                                                        Comment

                                                        • wkhanna
                                                          Grumpy Old Super Moderator Emeritus
                                                          • Jan 2006
                                                          • 5673

                                                          #29
                                                          Originally posted by Andrew M Ward
                                                          pass me beer I’m parched over here
                                                          AMW, Just a reminder:

                                                          When your using the free range, organic feed, no hormone/antibiotic raised pig intestine purchased from Whole Food’s butcher shop to hold your beer........... you must remember to tie the knot on the right end.
                                                          _


                                                          Bill

                                                          Practicing Curmudgeon & Audio Snob
                                                          ....just an "ON" switch, Please!

                                                          FinleyAudio

                                                          Comment

                                                          • David Meek
                                                            Moderator Emeritus
                                                            • Aug 2000
                                                            • 8938

                                                            #30
                                                            Foeth, I dont' care who you are - I don't care who you think you are - any more cutting little comments and you will have to find another forum outside of HTGuide to post on.

                                                            You have been warned - NO MORE.

                                                            HTGuide Administrator
                                                            .

                                                            David - Trigger-happy HTGuide Admin

                                                            Comment

                                                            • Andrew M Ward
                                                              Senior Member
                                                              • Apr 2005
                                                              • 717

                                                              #31
                                                              Originally posted by wkhanna
                                                              AMW, Just a reminder:

                                                              When your using the free range, organic feed, no hormone/antibiotic raised pig intestine purchased from Whole Food’s butcher shop to hold your beer........... you must remember to tie the knot on the right end.
                                                              wkhanna
                                                              I was actually trying to say something in my last post, then I realized nobody would read it, so I turned sarcastic (or should I say - even more sarcastic)

                                                              As fun and exciting as power cords are (and I mean that) I much more enjoy a good razing and stone throwing on interconnects and speaker wire... But I guess we'll have to trudge through this debate until somebody wins (stick with a winner, I always say)

                                                              It's like trying to convert liberals into conservatives or Christians into Muslims (or something like that) nobody really cares what the other guy says... because he is clearly an idiot (I’m glad I got that out of my system)

                                                              Stay cool and let me know what the final score is, right now it's 21 to 14 power cords over Ecclesiastic electricians , but the Ecclesiastic’s are marching down the field ready to score... will they go for the 2 point conversion to take the lead, or will they fumble the ball on the goal line?

                                                              it is the 4th quarter and Mr. Meek's has his finger on the button!

                                                              (God this is exciting!)

                                                              I'm holding my breath, I can't watch, tell me how it ends (Okay)

                                                              Comment

                                                              • chasw98
                                                                Super Senior Member
                                                                • Jan 2006
                                                                • 1360

                                                                #32
                                                                Originally posted by Andrew M Ward
                                                                it is the 4th quarter and Mr. Meek's has his finger on the button!
                                                                Does he have instant replay capability up in the booth?

                                                                Comment

                                                                • David Meek
                                                                  Moderator Emeritus
                                                                  • Aug 2000
                                                                  • 8938

                                                                  #33
                                                                  Mr. Meek???? You mean, my dad's running around here?
                                                                  .

                                                                  David - Trigger-happy HTGuide Admin

                                                                  Comment

                                                                  • David Meek
                                                                    Moderator Emeritus
                                                                    • Aug 2000
                                                                    • 8938

                                                                    #34
                                                                    Originally posted by Andrew M Ward
                                                                    It's like trying to convert liberals into conservatives or Christians into Muslims (or something like that) nobody really cares what the other guy says... because he is clearly an idiot (I’m glad I got that out of my system)
                                                                    It seems that there are very few people willing to keep an open mind (in either direction). It always winds up with self-important wanna-bes spouting rhetoric, insults and pointing out that stupidity or shady designs sit on the other side of the fence. :roll:
                                                                    .

                                                                    David - Trigger-happy HTGuide Admin

                                                                    Comment

                                                                    • wkhanna
                                                                      Grumpy Old Super Moderator Emeritus
                                                                      • Jan 2006
                                                                      • 5673

                                                                      #35
                                                                      Originally posted by Andrew M Ward
                                                                      it is the 4th quarter and Mr. Meek's has his finger on the button!
                                                                      Well AMW, it seems the button has been pushed, but due to your abominable use of logic and reason, it was by your own hand!

                                                                      Well, it looks like the fun is over........

                                                                      Maybe we could talk about zip cord?
                                                                      _


                                                                      Bill

                                                                      Practicing Curmudgeon & Audio Snob
                                                                      ....just an "ON" switch, Please!

                                                                      FinleyAudio

                                                                      Comment

                                                                      • David Meek
                                                                        Moderator Emeritus
                                                                        • Aug 2000
                                                                        • 8938

                                                                        #36
                                                                        What is it with you people? Are you just stupid? After explicitly telling you what is okay and what isn't, within 25 posts you're insulting one another?

                                                                        Thread Locked.

                                                                        Here's some advice: Grow up or go somewhere else.
                                                                        .

                                                                        David - Trigger-happy HTGuide Admin

                                                                        Comment

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