RB-1090 vs ME-550II

[hired goon]

G'day,

Last night I experimented with different amplifiers, and thought the results may be of interest here.

I initially had the following:

• Rotel RSP-1068 AV pre-processor, in "CD bypass" mode for 2-channel quality
• Rotel RSP-1072 CD player
• Rotel RB-1090 amplifier
• Equinox Audio Apogee speakers, set 4 metres apart.

With this set-up, I was getting a bright, grainy sound. I replaced the RB-1090 with a borrowed ME-550II amplifier, and the difference was amazing. The sound was smoother and more detailed, without the graininess of the 1090, and the bass was much more controlled. The ME-550II is a 2x100w amp, and (apparently) can drive a nail without shorting. I was amazed by the difference between the 1090 and the ME-550II, as the 1090 is very highly rated. However, the other amp produced far better sound. I drove the 2-Ohm Apogee quite hard, and both amps handled it without strain.

Unfortunately, the ME-550II is no longer in production. When it was available, it sold for about AUD$2000, compared to the AUD$3200 or so for the RB-1090. Regardless, I'm going to look for a second-hand ME-550II, and sell the RB-1090. I would urge any Aussies on this forum to seek out these amps and have a listen if possible.

--Geoff

[Aussie Geoff]

Geoff,

Yes the ME550 had a reputation for driving really dificult loads like electrostatics and very low impedence / high inductance speakers well. They were a bargain. It's a pitty they went out of business. You can easily pay near the new price for them second hand.

You may want to try the same experiment of easier to drive speakers - the different is likely to be less marked...

Try Redgum Audio for a similar aussie amplifier in production now - they export them all over for difficult to drive speakers!

Geoff

[Kevin97225]

There must be something wrong with your RB-1090 !

That doesn't sound like the Rotel RB-1090 at all. It's very smooth, not bright, or harsh. I've been very pleased with mine. Did you buy that used?
Something doesn't sound right. It's a great amp, but you describe it much different than how it is for myself or what the reviews report. Hope you find out what the problem is. :E

[hired goon]

G'day,

Yes the ME550 had a reputation for driving really dificult loads like electrostatics and very low impedence / high inductance speakers well. They were a bargain. It's a pitty they went out of business. You can easily pay near the new price for them second hand.

Apparently the designer may be producing a very limited number of amps -- the ME-850 I think -- in a few months, from leftover bits and pieces. I may just put my name on the list.

You may want to try the same experiment of easier to drive speakers - the different is likely to be less marked...

I was going to ask a question about this actually. I'm currently torn between the Apogee (sonically excellent speaker, up there with the B&W 802 I reckon, but they are really big and need a lot of room), and maybe the B&W 803 (which at least will fit in my room).

But I really like the ME amps, which are only 2x100w or 2x120w, and apparently the Nautilus speakers need 200w or more. So I'm not sure if this amp, which can drive a beast such as the Apogee without problem, will struggle with an 803. So I may need the RB-1090 just for the extra power, though I much prefer the sound of the ME-550II. Surely that can't be right?

Try Redgum Audio for a similar aussie amplifier in production now - they export them all over for difficult to drive speakers!

I haven't listened to Redgum amps, since I read a review where the designer admitted to boosting the bass below 100Hz to provide a more "life-like" sound.

That doesn't sound like the Rotel RB-1090 at all. It's very smooth, not bright, or harsh. I've been very pleased with mine. Did you buy that used?

Yes, but I must point out that I've found all Rotel amps (I've had three different models) to have a slight graininess, and just that little extra energy in the middle. Not very noticeable, unless you have very flat, revealing speakers (such as the Apogee), and can compare them to a better amp such as the aforementioned ME-550II.

Otherwise I don't think you would notice it that much, but once you do, there's no going back.

--Geoff

[Spearmint]

HG,

Another great Aussie amp is Halcro, if you are looking at spending some serious $ you should also check these out.

And of course don't forget about our Kiwi cousins with Plinius.

[JDH]

G'day,


But I really like the ME amps, which are only 2x100w or 2x120w, and apparently the Nautilus speakers need 200w or more. So I'm not sure if this amp, which can drive a beast such as the Apogee without problem, will struggle with an 803. So I may need the RB-1090 just for the extra power, though I much prefer the sound of the ME-550II. Surely that can't be right.


--Geoff

Hey Geoff,

You could always buy two ME-550II amps and bi-amp the 803 to get the extra power you need to the speakers. Bit of an expensive exercise

[DanR]

Hey hired goon,
Don't get hung up on the numbers of amplifiers. B&W speakers don't need at least "200watts". That is pure baloney from people who don't know any better and simply pass on unimformed tidbits. I have a Jeff Rowland Model 2 rated at "only" 75watts x 2 and it makes my N802's sing like you wouldn't believe. I used to have an RB-1090 and the Rowland puts it to shame! Purity of the wattage available, current and circuit topolgy all are more crucial than just numbers. For that matter I have heard the Bel Brown MkV drive the 802's almost as well as the Rowland and that is only rated at 50watts x 2. If you like the ME's sound- go for them!!! Why get hung up on numbers. The Rotel line are fine sounding products for the money, but there are much better amps out there at much lower wattages.

[Adrian Smith]

I happen to have some ME gear, 2x ME 25 pre-amps and 2x ME 550 power amps, picked them up for a bargain price acouple of years ago.
Link if anyone is intersted.

http://www.me-au.com/sound.html

[hired goon]

G'day,

I happen to have some ME gear, 2x ME 25 pre-amps and 2x ME 550 power amps, picked them up for a bargain price acouple of years ago.

Wanna sell 'em?

Although ME have closed down, apparently, in the near future, you'll be able to get the ME-550 upgraded so that it's (almost) like an ME-550 II.

--Geoff

[Kevin97225]

Maybe we don't appreciate the same!

Can't get anymore revealing than Klipsch speakers. I still don't have any
disappointments with the RB-1090. I really like how revealing it is and how
smooth over-all the RB-1090 performs. As far as DanR's comment, the Rowland puts it to shame! I don't think so! It is not that drastic of a difference as he makes it sound. I listened to the Rowland and I did not find enough difference to spend the extra money, not for myself anyway. I've listen to amps costing many more times the cost of the RB-1090 and it competes very well and for much less the cost. As we all use different equipment in different combos, we could be having different results.

The RB-1090 and Klipsch combo is very revealing with much detail. I have none of the shortcomings that disappoint you with my Rotel setups.
Lucky me, huh!

[KathyMason]

May be your recording material source you are hearing!

I love my RB-1090, sounds wonderful. I'm wondering if what you are hearing is the source material being revealed with Rotel's
excellent RB-1090, it hides nothing. May be your other amp just isn't revealing that to you. The Inner Ear review on the RB-1090
and some of the others, say it goes very well with very revealing speakers, even ribbon designs, stating that it sounded more linear,
offering a better tonal equilibrium across the audible frequency range. It's not un-common that certain speakers can be better
or not so better with any amp, that is why it's very important to team the two up right. I've never used Apogee speakers but several
reviews on the RB-1090 do say it goes well with Ribbon speakers, which are known to be very revealing. Kathy :T :P

[mmpeak]

What? Must be something else giving you the problem "hired goon" because when I
tried the ME-550II, it lacked the tight, taut, bass that was noticable with compared to the Rotel RB-1090. Over-all I found the Rotel RB-1090 just did every thing better
than the ME-550II. Wonder why you aren't getting the same results! I am running
the Rotel RC-1090 with the Rotel RB-1090, and the Rotel RCD-1072 CD player and
it's all very sweet, as good as my Levinson 336 but much better price.

[MoonSpin]

I know what the problem is, the Rotel RB-1090 reveals good or bad recordings, just as the studio
produced it. If you have a CD that has a very bad recording, the RB-1090 will reveal that and
that's when it can sound really horrible, some can even be hard to listen to with being harsh or
bright, but well recorded music can really sound awesome on the RB-1090. I think [hired goon] isn't realizing
that some amps do not reveal the source detail, filtering it out, thus you never hear just how bad
a recording can be. By doing this, an amp will never be as detailed as one that reveals right down to the
quality of the source. Some people mis-understand this and blame an amp thinking it is producing the
harsh, bright, or grainny sound when in fact it's revealing just how the recording was produced with this
in the recording studio.

[hired goon]

G'day,

I know what the problem is, the Rotel RB-1090 reveals good or bad recordings, just as the studio produced it. If you have a CD that has a very bad recording, the RB-1090 will reveal that and that's when it can sound really horrible, some can even be hard to listen to with being harsh or
bright, but well recorded music can really sound awesome on the RB-1090. I think [hired goon] isn't realizing that some amps do not reveal the source detail, filtering it out, thus you never hear just how bad a recording can be.

The recordings were not the problem. I tried many different types of recordings, some of them very well recorded (for example, Steely Dan's "Gaucho", Beck's "Sea Change", a number of Chesky reference CDs, etc), and some that were recorded badly (many 80's recordings), and some that brought out brightness (for example, Led Zeppelin's "Over The Hills And Far Away").

In each case, the recordings sounded better (in my opinion) through the ME-550II than the RB-1090. Some recordings were unlistenable through the RB-1090, but swapping over to the ME-550II brought them back to life.

Now this may be because the speakers used are quite a heavy load (2 ohms), and maybe the RB-1090 was't able to drive them very well. But I did try some easier speakers (VAF DC-X, for those Aussies who may be aware of them), and found similar results.

--Geoff

[Kevin97225]

not having any of those problems with my RB-1090

I never come across anything that was unlistenable on the RB-1090. Are you sure the unit has gone its break-in
period? I'm not having any brite or harsh problems. :E
Maybe something is wrong with your amp? I can think of several reviews on the RB-1090
that I can quote from that said it was never bright or harsh and had a pleasing smoothness
with no ear fatigue, even after long periods of playing. I'm using all Rotel gear so
I can't speak for the rest of the equipment you use, just happy that I don't have that
problem, the sound quality is incredible for me with my Rotel RC-1090, RB-1090, and
RCD-1072 and Klipsch RF-7 speakers! Not to worry though, you won't have any problems
selling the RB-1090!! Just happy that things are very sweet sounding with mine :lol: , just makes me wonder why
you aren't getting the same results. The people that I know that have the RB-1090 are very happy with it
and say it's a keeper for them.

The ME-550II has a different build quality than the RB-1090, I find it very hard to believe that the ME-550II is going to out perform the RB-1090 by specs alone, while it doesn't always mean anything but just very hard to believe. There was another guy who posted just the opposite of what you are saying about the ME-550II and RB-1090 when he was comparing, so it makes me wonder if your RB-1090 is performing right? Maybe that's why someone was getting rid of it? I'll have to find his posting and send it to you so you can see if you agree with his or not. :T

[newtown]

G'day,


I haven't listened to Redgum amps, since I read a review where the designer admitted to boosting the bass below 100Hz to provide a more "life-like" sound.


--Geoff

Don't count out the Redgums till you give them a demo. I found them to be very sweet sounding amps. Also when you read the designer's rationale for boosting the bass at certain frequencies it makes some sense (though I'm no expert). I currently use an old Rotel RSX 972 which was highly praised for it's stereo performance and the Redgums I listened to handily outperformed it.

[KathyMason]

OH My STARS !!!

Oh my stars!

The build quality of the Redgums doesn't even match near the RB-1090!
There is hardly any thing inside it compared to the RB-1090, and it weighs
much much less than the RB-1090. No thank you, I'll stick with the RB-1090.

[newtown]

Oh my stars!

The build quality of the Redgums doesn't even match near the RB-1090!
There is hardly any thing inside it compared to the RB-1090, and it weighs
much much less than the RB-1090. No thank you, I'll stick with the RB-1090.

Lol, who cares how it sounds right? As long as it looks sexy and weighs a lot

[DanR]

No offense Kathy, but weight and number of parts inside have NOTHING to do with sound quality. Check out the new ICEPOWER amps and maybe you will understand. The future of all amps is in this technology. These amps can produce 500 watts or more and weigh about 20 pounds.

[hired goon]

G'day,

I never come across anything that was unlistenable on the RB-1090. Are you sure the unit has gone its break-in period? I'm not having any brite or harsh problems. Maybe something is wrong with your amp? I can think of several reviews on the RB-1090 that I can quote from that said it was never bright or harsh and had a pleasing smoothness with no ear fatigue, even after long periods of playing.

It's only in comparison to the ME-550II that I noticed the relative graininess of the RB-1090. Before I tried out the other amp, I thought the RB-1090 was just beaut. After I swapped amps, I got a different (and in my opinion) smoother sound.

So I don't think there's anything wrong per se with my RB-1090. I think I simply prefer the sound of a different amp, at least on the speakers I was using. For Klipsch RF-7s, perhaps the RB-1090 would sound better than the ME-550II.

--Geoff

[Andrew Pratt]

I'm going to move this thread out of club Rotel and into the audio area where others can comment. I understand why it was started in CR but given the direction its going I see no reason to add more fuel to the fire which is what would happen if it remained in the pro rotel area

Everyone has different ears and tastes so lets not belittle anyone's choices here.

[David Meek]

Agreed Andrew. It'll be informed discussion, fun discussion, passionate discussion - all these are welcome. Negative? Nope - keep it on the high road gang.

[newtown]

Agreed Andrew. It'll be informed discussion, fun discussion, passionate discussion - all these are welcome. Negative? Nope - keep it on the high road gang.

Nothing I said I hope....

Hired Goon, could you hear the fan at all on the ME? I've read varying reports some saying it's inaudibble to others saying it was clearly audible during silent passages of music.

[javis]

Hired goon,
Audition the Electra reference if you get the opportunity (Len Wallis Hi Fi). In fact I would urge any Aussies on this forum to do the same. I auditioned the Rotel RB-1090 which is an excellent amp, absolutely. The audition was back to back against the Electra (a little more expensive) through a worthy pair of speakers and in my “ears” opinion the Electra just nailed the music, hands down. Its difficult to describe suffice to say the attack on this bad boy is phenomenal.

[hired goon]

G'day,

Hired Goon, could you hear the fan at all on the ME? I've read varying reports some saying it's inaudibble to others saying it was clearly audible during silent passages of music.

I didn't hear it, but then again I did not play any quiet passages of music. I did repeatedly play Diana Krall's "All Or Nothing At All", which starts off with a beaut double bass solo, but I couldn't hear any noise. Also, I was sitting about three metres back from the amp.

Although I am now aware that some people claim to hear the fan, and it's something I will check out more thoroughly if I decide to buy this amp.

Audition the Electra reference if you get the opportunity (Len Wallis Hi Fi). In fact I would urge any Aussies on this forum to do the same.

I haven't seen this amp in Brisbane, but if I get the chance I'll try it out.

--Geoff