Other than only have two drivers holes , looks good to me. :T
Circular saw recommendations (for cutting facets)?
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Originally posted by JonWI’ll be cutting facets into the front baffle of my ongoing project. After reading and thinking about it, the circular saw method, as shown below from jquin, might be the best way to go.
(edit) I found another link, a closeout deal at Woodcraft.
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You definitely DO NOT have a stable enough surface for the saw to sit on. I can see from the pictures that the 'non edge guide' part of the saw board needs to be closer to the sawboard actually providing the guide and needs better support so that you do not sag or move in the horizontal plane. A picture is worth a thousand words in this case. If you look at my pictures I had a much smaller gap between the sawboard and the supporting sawboard to make my cuts. Oh well, good practice and a way to get a feeel for how the saw handles. BTW, did it cut deep enough?
Chuck- Bottom
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JRT,
Interesting idea. I hadn't thought of that. Do you think there is a good way to align things such that you could get a good cut of the facet?
Chuck,
I think you're right. I need to get everything more solid and stable. Not sure how I'll do that. Maybe use the test baffle as my support for the second, non-cutting side of the saw. That might be more solid and less mobile. And I'll move the second, non-cutting saw board closer to the blade. Good ideas. Any others?- Bottom
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Originally posted by JonWJRT,
Interesting idea. I hadn't thought of that. Do you think there is a good way to align things such that you could get a good cut of the facet?
When you are done with the cutting, sand to the line, with a hardwood sanding block, starting with very coarse open coat garnet sand paper. Then move up progressively to finer grits of open coat garnet. Don't go beyond 320. The more different grades of sandpaper you use, the more grits you use, the quicker it will go. It really will not take much effort to get it flat and smooth this way. it will add effort and time if you skip grits and try to do too much sanding with an excessively fine grade.- Bottom
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I made my “real” fact cuts. Here’s what I found…
I used the method that Chuck and I both posted photos of, above. JRT- your method may be something to try in the future. For now here’s what I did.
I made some more practice cuts and could not get things to align perfectly when I made a cut on one side, then tried to do the same on the other. So here’s what I found to work OK:
Start with the cut you’ll make with the saw in the middle. You’ll be pulling the saw out toward you to make this cut. (Not really pulling the saw toward you- that would be dangerous. But for the sake of orientation here, from where the photo is taken.) Let’s say this will be the top left corner of the baffle, when looking at it.
See how deep the cut was made. Then, on the other corner, mark an equivalent cut with a pencil. We’re on the top right corner now. Make the pencil mark on the top edge of the baffle, that you are looking at when looking from the ceiling down onto the speaker, if it were standing up.
I used a three-sided ruler to mark the cut line- that makes it easy for drawing the 45 degree cut line. This isn’t the one I used but it’s about the right idea:
Then align the saw boards and put the saw up to the baffle. Here the cut will be made standing where I was when taking the photo. I will push the saw forward. I arranged the saw boards and saw such that I could see the blade lined up right onto the cut line I made with the pencil. This photo doesn’t really show it well. But the idea is that you kneel down and look along the edge of the saw blade. Make sure it’s aligned with your cut line that is on the top edge of the baffle. Then make the cut. (Note this photo was from practice, not the real cut.)
If that makes any sense I hope it might be useful to others.
And the final product:
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Jon.....
Here's another option using a table saw. Look about mid-way through the thread.
https://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php?p=250091&highlight=facet+jig#post2 50091
The jig holds the baffle at 45 degrees so that you can get the maximum depth from the table saw blade. With a 10" saw you should be able to get 3 inches deep.
ColoradoTom- Bottom
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I plan to use a jig like yours, Tom. Did you consider attaching a runner on the bottom (at the appropriate angle) to ride in the t-slot, rather than the angle jig against the fence? That's what I'm leaning toward.- Bottom
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Jon,
Here is a picture of the All-in-One Clamp and saw guide that I use. Not only is it an excellent and safer setup for facet cutting, you can even use it for ripping your full sheets of BB. More info can be found here; https://www.bt3central.com/showthrea...023#post234023
Good luck and thanks for sharing.
Craig- Bottom
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Jon.....
Here's another option using a table saw. Look about mid-way through the thread.
https://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php?p=250091&highlight=facet+jig#post2 50091
The jig holds the baffle at 45 degrees so that you can get the maximum depth from the table saw blade. With a 10" saw you should be able to get 3 inches deep.
ColoradoTom
Hi Tom,
I actually looked at your sled setup many times before trying what I did. Thanks for posting the details way back when you did. I tried something different for 2 main reasons. First, I don't think that my table saw is big enough to support the whole setup well. Second, you said you were going to try something different next time.
Originally posted by CraigJJon,
Here is a picture of the All-in-One Clamp and saw guide that I use. Not only is it an excellent and safer setup for facet cutting, you can even use it for ripping your full sheets of BB. More info can be found here; https://www.bt3central.com/showthrea...023#post234023
Good luck and thanks for sharing.
Craig
Thanks for posting that again. Now that I tried the regular saw board, those clamps look more interesting. Using the saw boards, things did turnout OK. But could be a little better. I'm done for now with cutting facets for these 2 way speakers. But I've got a 3 way project in mind. So I'm on the lookout for future facet cutting ideas there.
For those All-in-One clamps can you clamp down onto the work piece at an angle? If everything has to be clamped at 90 degrees it might not be so good for cutting facets.
In your link they also discuss the EurekaZone setup. That might be even better. It looks like it has a good way to keep the saw running straight alongside of the clamp, minimizing any unwanted movement of the saw, etc. Not sure if that will clamp at non-90 degree angles. Something for me to consider for the next project, along with the All-in-One clamps. Link here:
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Originally posted by JonWFor those All-in-One clamps can you clamp down onto the work piece at an angle? If everything has to be clamped at 90 degrees it might not be so good for cutting facets. Link here:
http://www.eurekazone.com/index.html
Craig- Bottom
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Originally posted by Paul EbertI plan to use a jig like yours, Tom. Did you consider attaching a runner on the bottom (at the appropriate angle) to ride in the t-slot, rather than the angle jig against the fence? That's what I'm leaning toward.
Tip: Draw the facet cuts on the baffle before you cut... that way you'll be able to look at your setup prior to actually cutting to be sure you've aligned everythin properly!! You'll also be able to see the blade track the lines you've drawn as you make you cuts!
Tom- Bottom
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Good points, Tom. My first reaction was that I could flip the jig and run it in the slot on the other side of the blade, but they are not equidistant from the blade (one is 4", the other 5). I wonder why they did that?
Of course, there are four facets to cut per baffle. I'll have to think about this some more (when I'm not so tired).
However I make the cuts, I will certainly mark out the cut and make test cuts. Fortunately, I have a good bit of scrap for such a purpose.- Bottom
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Originally posted by CraigJGood question regarding the non 90 degree cuts. I suppose an 80 degree and 10 degree block (assuming a 10 degree angle), either hot glued or held on with a brad, could be attached to the side and top of the baffle. Any other woodworkers have a suggestion? Also, did you clamp your baffle to the BT3100's sled when cross-cutting? If my memory is correct, Jon purchased the BT3100 because it could cut the facets on the M8ta with one cut. Lots of interesting was to cut a facet.
Originally posted by CraigJTell us more about your planned 3 way.- Bottom
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Jon,
What blade are you using on the Makita? I just quickly scanned the earlier posts, so my apologies if I missed this..
David - Trigger-happy HTGuide Admin- Bottom
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Originally posted by peter_mFaceted enclosures... What's the advantage?
You can play with this simulation tool to see how things are affected.
Edge treatments well away from the tweeter or small midrange are just for aesthetics.- Bottom
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Originally posted by David MeekJon,
What blade are you using on the Makita? I just quickly scanned the earlier posts, so my apologies if I missed this.
I'm using the stock blade that came with the saw. It's brand new- I've only used it for cutting these facets so far, so it's nice and sharp. It cuts through just fine as is. And it seems to have an easier time of it that the blade in my table saw. Details on that are here, post 400:
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Originally posted by peter_mFaceted enclosures... What's the advantage?
If you just have square edges to your cabinet, sound can come from the tweeter, bound across the face of the baffle, and then load up at the edges. The result is some frequencies will be more pronounced than others. So smoothing out the edges with a roundover or facet,etc. will help some. Do a search on "baffle diffraction" and you will find a lot of reading on the topic. If you want to play around with some simulations and learn for yourself, look for the programs "Baffle Diffraction Simulator" or "Edge."
I used BDS and came up with some interesting tidbits that helped me understand things:
I'm designing my first speaker, a simple 2 way MT, and I’m currently looking into various cabinet styles. How might one best control baffle diffraction effects? There are two good free programs out there: Edge and Baffle Diffraction Simulator (BDS). I’ve been trying out various baffle designs to see what looks good. I’m new to
And if you want to see actual measured data, I tried a few different cabinet configurations and the results are here, on pages 10 and 11:
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I had a radial arm saw during the 1970's and loved it; built a small sailboat with it(Pumpkin Seed from Popular Science Magazine). I never nicked my fingers using one but I have hurt my hands twice in the one year that I have owned my table saw. Seems that the sliding compound miter saw may have influenced the waining popularity of the radial arm saw??
RayWine is constant proof that God loves us, and loves to see us happy.
BENJAMIN FRANKLIN- Bottom
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Originally posted by DrysealsI may have pssed it up, but has anyone suggested using a radial arm saw, it's perfect for cuts like your making. I know a lot of folks don't like them, but I love mine.- Bottom
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Originally posted by Ray CollinsI had a radial arm saw during the 1970's and loved it; built a small sailboat with it(Pumpkin Seed from Popular Science Magazine). I never nicked my fingers using one but I have hurt my hands twice in the one year that I have owned my table saw. Seems that the sliding compound miter saw may have influenced the waining popularity of the radial arm saw??
Ray- Bottom
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The biggest problem with radial saws (and sliding miter saws) is that the blade is climb cutting when you pull it toward you so it tends to bind. It can be dangerous and can give you a wavy cut when the blade binds and flexes the arm and head assembly. Of course the better (stiffer) the saw and the sharper the blade, the less of a problem the normal climb cutting is. A way around the binding problem, when you want precision cuts, is to pull the blade toward you, slip the wood in behind it, and cut with a pushing stroke just like with a handheld circular saw.- Bottom
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Jon.....
Here's another option using a table saw. Look about mid-way through the thread.
https://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php?p=250091&highlight=facet+jig#post2 50091
The jig holds the baffle at 45 degrees so that you can get the maximum depth from the table saw blade. With a 10" saw you should be able to get 3 inches deep.
ColoradoTom
Well, I was making some test cabinets today and they are faceted. I finally gave up, admitted defeat, and took Tom's advice. In the end I do not know why I wasted my time with a sawboard and radial arm saw, etc. I was able to make a 'compound sled' in less than an hour and then have accurate facets cut in less than 15 minutes. I made it out of old wood lying around the shop and it works great. If I were going to make a permanent unit, I would change some things, but for ease of use this is it. Thanks Tom!
Top view of Jig
End view of Jig.
Bottom view of Jig.
Results!
Chuck- Bottom
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Looks good. :T And good to see exactly how you did it so well. For my next project (the 3 ways) I will explore different ways to cut the facets from what I did with the Spassvogels. I'll give a shot to what Chuck did here.
But I've got to call Chuck (aka Cadillac Saw, aka Mr. Fancy Pants) on one thing: He recently got a cabinet saw with a 3 HP motor. So I am wondering how well this sled method will work with a smaller table saw like the one I have (Ryobi BT3100).
For the top facet cut on my speakers I used the table saw, rather than the circular saw and saw board. My saw had a very difficult time cutting through 3 layers of birch ply at a 45 degree angle. A new blade might help a little. But I feared burning out my motor. And the surfaces of my saw are much smaller than a cabinet saw. I wonder how the sled approach will work with a large (~40" long) and heavy (3 layer) baffle on a small table saw.- Bottom
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