It's time for a Statement announcing my latest project..

[Dennis H]

The DEQX does more than a basic active crossover in that in also phase/time aligns the entire signal path using DSP with nearfield measurements.

Yeah, that's nice if you're starting from scratch but it's a problem if you're trying to copy an existing design.

(Warning technical babble to follow. ) The DEQX uses linear-phase FIR filters (no phase shift with frequency) along with digital time delays. Analog crossovers have phase shift with frequency and do time alignment by adjusting crossover slopes. So, even if you copied Curt's transfer functions exactly into the DEQX, it wouldn't sound the same because the phase relationships between the drivers would be different. I'm not saying it would necessarily sound bad but it wouldn't be the same sound/voicing that Curt designed.

[mikela]

Yeah, that's nice if you're starting from scratch but it's a problem if you're trying to copy an existing design.

(Warning technical babble to follow. ) The DEQX uses linear-phase FIR filters (no phase shift with frequency) along with digital time delays. Analog crossovers have phase shift with frequency and do time alignment by adjusting crossover slopes. So, even if you copied Curt's transfer functions exactly into the DEQX, it wouldn't sound the same because the phase relationships between the drivers would be different. I'm not saying it would necessarily sound bad but it wouldn't be the same sound/voicing that Curt designed.

Dennis,

As a senior aerospace engineer, technical babble is much appreciated :B

I am well aware of the issues with duplicating Curt's Xover and there is much to be said for keeping a simple analog pathway, however, I already have the DEQX and it should be a simple matter to run the experiment. But who knows, there may be a DEQX with balanced outs on the market soon. I also want to see how the Statements compare to the Maggies. The DEQX made a notable improvement to the Maggies even without biamping or bypassing the xovers.

Mike

[mikela]

Assembly sequence

Hi Folks,

Another question:

What is the preferred assembly sequence for glueing the MDF together? I have read that it is best to work back to front but see that some apparently have glued the front baffle to the sides first. Do you just wedge the 5" waveguides into the completed sides+top+bottom letting the glue smear?

Sorry for the newbie questions,

Mike

[zjason]

I used the wedge method as you described.

Assembled frame using front baffle, top, bottom and back (no sides). There is still some flex in the assembled frame.

Once assembled I measured the inside distance for the 2 x 5" pass-through's lengths and cut to about 1/16 longer. I then used an orbital sander to finish so that I could (with not too much effort), tap the tunnel between the front and rear boards. Clamp and glue. Just to be sure, I also siliconed around the inside and outside contact points after it was dry.

[mikela]

zjason,

It appears to me that others have been gluing the sides+top+bottom together first and then either the front or rear. At that point, it seems they are wedging in the 5" WG (with braces already attached). I assume they must be putting the glue in it's intended final location on the sides and front or back scrubbing it in with the WG assembly. Then, install the final baffle (front or back). Then they are routing out the 5" square hole for the WG. I am probably over analyzing this but I believe in learning from others who have blazed the trail ahead of me. In any case, a fit check as you have described seems like a really good idea.

Thanks,
Mike

[impala454]

I still don't have the room to build the full sized statements yet, but was thinking of going ahead and buying all the parts because I know the prices have been going up (I will build them this year at some point). So I was totalling up the BOM and thought the "updated" list I made might be worth posting in here. I did not get the ribbon prices as madisound's website appears to be down (anyone know anything about that?).

rs225 dayton - $45.63 x 4 = $182.52
tb 1337s - $54.64 x 4 ($49 special right now) $218.56 ($196 special)

9.1uF - $6.15 x 2 = $12.30
56uF - $16.13 x 2 = $32.26
100uF - $23.22 x 2 = $46.44
.47uF - $1.10 x 2 = $2.20
3.9uF - $2.48 x 4 = $9.92

4ohm - $3.50 x 2 = $7
8ohm - $3.50 x 4 = $14
10ohm - $3.50 x 2 = $7
1ohm - $3.50 x 2 = $7
3ohm - $3.50 x 2 = $7

.4mH - $4.93 x 2 = $9.86
.3mH - $4.51 x 2 = $9.02
7mH - $23.04 x 2 = $46.08

PE Total: $611.16 ($588.60 if you get the TB special)

Anyhow, on the PE total that's about a $60 increase from the original BOM. Probably some good info for those reading this thread. $60 definitely wouldn't hinder me from building them, but might make me want to go ahead and buy the parts before they go up even more . I won't buy the parts though unless I know I can get the ribbons... anyone know anything about Madisound or any other place to get the ribbons?

[Coconutout]

are you trying to upgrade the crossover? this is something id be very interested in. cuz i know those clarity caps gotta fit in somewhere. lol.

[Jim Holtz]

Anyhow, on the PE total that's about a $60 increase from the original BOM. Probably some good info for those reading this thread. $60 definitely wouldn't hinder me from building them, but might make me want to go ahead and buy the parts before they go up even more . I won't buy the parts though unless I know I can get the ribbons... anyone know anything about Madisound or any other place to get the ribbons?

I should probably revise the BOM to reflect the price increases. It sucks that the parts have gone up that much. Ribbons are still $89 each and are right here: NeoCD3.0

Jim

[impala454]

Ribbons are still $89 each and are right here: NeoCD3.0

Jim

Ah ok good. At the time I posted their site was down.

[FredT]

Finally Coming Together

Some family priorities took me off the project for a couple of months, but today I'm finally attaching the baffles to the enclosures. This time I used 3/4" mdf inner and outer baffles, applied and finished the veneer before the outer baffles were installed, and painted the outer baffles satin black. The effect is very nice. I'll post another picture when everything is completed.

http://fredt300b.smugmug.com/gallery/4274907_KTENt#279446557_z4GvB

[Jim Holtz]

Hi Fred,

The new Statements are really going to be pretty! Great job as usual! :T

Jim

[Ray Collins]

Fred,
Were the baffles painted with lacquer?

Ray

[FredT]

Fred,
Were the baffles painted with lacquer?
Ray

No, I use Rustoleum American Accents Canyon Black satin from a can. It's available at Lowe's. I've found it far better than any other paint I've tried, including the other Rustoleum paints. The main advantage is that it's completely dry, not even sticky, in 24 hours. The trick is to cover all mdf edges with spackling compound so they don't soak up the paint, sand them, then spray three coats about 15 minutes apart. At this point it will look terrible. Wait 24 hours and sand down almost to the bare mdf, then carefully apply one final coat.

They're done! ;b>

I finished them about 20 minutes ago and they're playing now. Too soon for an evaluation, but the enclosure noise I heard in my first pair is completely gone in this one. See a picture here:

http://fredt300b.smugmug.com/gallery/4274907_KTENt#280505807_hxJos

[impala454]

The trick is to cover all mdf edges with spackling compound so they don't soak up the paint,

What kind of spackling compound? Do you mean like the DAP pink stuff that dries white?

[FredT]

What kind of spackling compound? Do you mean like the DAP pink stuff that dries white?

It's the white drywall filler compound that comes in a small tub. You can also use wood filler, but I find the drywall compound is easier to sand.

[Jim Holtz]

They're done! ;b>

I finished them about 20 minutes ago and they're playing now. Too soon for an evaluation, but the enclosure noise I heard in my first pair is completely gone in this one. See a picture here:

http://fredt300b.smugmug.com/gallery...80505807_hxJos

Hi Fred,

They look great! After you've given them a thorough break in and listened for a while, perhaps you could post exactly what changes you made in the cabinet? I think a lot of folks would appreciate hearing your thoughts. I know I would. :T

Best regards,

Jim

[Ray Collins]

Very tasteful Fred, very tasteful...

Ray

[dumaresq]

I am going to buy my MDF to build my Statements this weekend. I have a few questions that are probably silly
1) If I can't get 1/2 MDF (Lowes/HomeDepot don't have it, have to try a lumber yard) I know I need to spend extra effort on the mids to prevent tunneling. Do I need to increase the size of the speaker to account for the extra 1/4" in the baffle?
2) If I can get 1/2 MDF does the 1/2 sheet go on the inside or the outside? This seems like a very silly question and I am sure it is here somewhere but I haven't been able to find it.
3) I saw some early comments that the W4's had changed recently should I be concerned about the affects of this on my crossovers?
4) What is the best material to use as the "foam" on the inside of the speakers? I see a few people using insulation and others using foam... Does it really matter?

This is my first full speaker build, I've build Subs before. I think it will be quite the undertaking for a first try but I do have some experience with electronics building. I've played with electronics all my life, and built a few small devices (like an IR transmitter). I have some experience wood working from building subs (though I am really only OK)... Should i be worried that I am biting off more then I can chew?

[CupCak3]

1. no
2. i don't believe it matters
3. Some are guessing that it won't but I haven't seen confirmation yet. Jed is going to take some measurements.
4. Any sort of open cell foam should work fine. I just ordered a sheet from Parts Express

I've never built anything like b/f either and everything has been so far so good... except for my procrastination in posting pictures :frypan:

[chris4891]

regarding the 1/2" mdf, just wanted to offer this up as i ran into the same problem initially.. or at least i thought i did. the first time i checked my local lowes and home depot i could only find 3/4". then i went back to hd a couple weeks later and looked a little more closely.. they did in fact have the 1/2", it just wasn't in the same area as they 3/4". oh well, now i know.. just took me a couple trips to realize they (at least that particular store) sorted the sheets in terms of thickness instead of type.

anyway, hope it helps.. ymmv

[dumaresq]

regarding the 1/2" mdf, just wanted to offer this up as i ran into the same problem initially.. or at least i thought i did. the first time i checked my local lowes and home depot i could only find 3/4". then i went back to hd a couple weeks later and looked a little more closely.. they did in fact have the 1/2", it just wasn't in the same area as they 3/4". oh well, now i know.. just took me a couple trips to realize they (at least that particular store) sorted the sheets in terms of thickness instead of type.

anyway, hope it helps.. ymmv

I looked everywhere at mine and checked to see what they list online... They don't even list it online at any of the stores near me.

[CupCak3]

btw, if you do 1.5" baffle, Jim has suggested that you make sure to scallop the back of your drivers more than the suggested 1/2" or so.

[zjason]

update

Well I think I am finished building for now and can sit back and enjoy :P

Thanks Jim et. al.

I have some serious horsepower for the sealed statements (mains)
powered from a Behringer EP2500 rated at 650W (4 ohm) x 2 channels.
That's 80lb and 2600W in those two amps in the rack at less than $600.

:T :T for pro amps!

The statement center is powered by my new Yamaha rx-v659 along with some bookshelf surrounds in my 5.2 setup. Crossover at 60Hz seems to sound the best. I'm not sold on HDMI, so this receiver fit the bill perfectly (great sound / options, good amp in itself + pre-outs, ipod dock)

It's amazing the dynamic range now present in my HT.
Excellent detail in all aspects (music, HDTV, DVD's)
Very clear at low volume levels and maintained at very high levels.
I think the sealed statements came alive with the extra amp headroom.

I was most impressed with watching the Masters' last weekend and hearing very cleary every bird singing in the background when a hush fell over the crowd during tee off's / putting out.
...and movies, in a whole different league. I just don't enjoy the local cinema sound anymore knowing I am missing so much from the audio experience. I find myself waiting for DVD releases.

cheers!!!

[Jim Holtz]

Excellent! Thanks for the update. I'm really happy you're enjoying the Statements and center as much as I do. They spoil going to the theater for sure.

Jim

[dumaresq]

I was thinking about ordering the drivers and crossover parts today I noticed that Madisound is sold out of the tweeters, and won't have more until May 17th I want to cut out the baffle before the drivers arrive, can someone tell me what the depth of the drivers are for the flush mounting? I see the diameters in the cad drawings but not the depth...

[David_D]

I was thinking about ordering the drivers and crossover parts today I noticed that Madisound is sold out of the tweeters, and won't have more until May 17th I want to cut out the baffle before the drivers arrive, can someone tell me what the depth of the drivers are for the flush mounting? I see the diameters in the cad drawings but not the depth...

I cut mine to .140" but, I forgot to add the thickness of the veneer so, mine is a little deep. The Tweeter's Flange mic's to .140". I would say better too shallow then too deep.
Hope that helps.
-David D

[David_D]

BTW,
I don't know if I am treading on anyone's toes so feel free to shoot me down.
Speaker City out of Cali also carries the fountek line but, with no repair option.

[dumaresq]

BTW,
I don't know if I am treading on anyone's toes so feel free to shoot me down.
Speaker City out of Cali also carries the fountek line but, with no repair option.

They also appear to be cheaper. I assume though if they break I will end up having to buy them again from Madisound... well I'll see how far I get this weekend... then decide

[CupCak3]

They also appear to be cheaper. I assume though if they break I will end up having to buy them again from Madisound... well I'll see how far I get this weekend... then decide

I dont' think you'll have to buy again... probably just pay more for the repair.

[KorbenDallas]

What is the failure rate on these? Does this type of tweeter need to be rebuilt every few years?

What is the significance with the Madisound repair option? I expect a woofer to last for years and years, can I expect the same with ribbon tweeters?

[Jim Holtz]

What is the failure rate on these? Does this type of tweeter need to be rebuilt every few years?

What is the significance with the Madisound repair option? I expect a woofer to last for years and years, can I expect the same with ribbon tweeters?

Hi Mark,

The only failures of a Fountek ribbon that I know of were caused by equipment or user errors. They will last indefinitely with normal care. Life expectancy will be comparable to any dome in a speaker that sits in your home and plays music or home theater at anything less than ear drum splitting volumes.

I only posted the repair info for the benefit of anyone who might have an "opps!" so they didn't have to buy a new ribbon. They could repair the ones they had, just as you can replace the dome on many good dome tweeters if they get damaged.

THERE ARE NO PROBLEMS WITH THE RIBBONS!

Jim

[dumaresq]

I cut mine to .140" but, I forgot to add the thickness of the veneer so, mine is a little deep. The Tweeter's Flange mic's to .140". I would say better too shallow then too deep.
Hope that helps.
-David D

That's 9/64ths if I did my math right... you must have a very accurate router... the closed I could get to that would be 1/8th (I can do 16ths but I can't get any closer)...

[---k---]

THERE ARE NO PROBLEMS WITH THE RIBBONS!

Jim

Jim,
Would it help if I post a few more times about how I damaged my dome tweeters?

[David_D]

THERE ARE NO PROBLEMS WITH THE RIBBONS!

Jim,
Thanks for bailing me out of yet another thread. ops:
I guess I should have linked to your thread.
Sorry. Those posts were made minutes apart.
I assumed everyone reads all the threads.
I'll keep in line.... promise. :evil:

[dumaresq]

parts express has no 1.0 ohm Mills resistors can I sub that for this http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshow...=004-1&scqty=2 ( a 1.0 Ohm Dayton resister)? I have two things that worry me, one it is rated for slightly less watts 2 it is much cheaper....

Or is it better to buy two .5 Ohm resistors and wire them in series?

[Jim Holtz]

parts express has no 1.0 ohm Mills resistors can I sub that for this http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshow...=004-1&scqty=2 ( a 1.0 Ohm Dayton resister)? I have two things that worry me, one it is rated for slightly less watts 2 it is much cheaper....

Or is it better to buy two .5 Ohm resistors and wire them in series?

That Dayton resistor will be just fine. If you want to ensure power handling, buy (2) two ohm resistors and parallel them for a one ohm load but double the power handling.

Jim

[David_D]

That's 9/64ths if I did my math right... you must have a very accurate router... the closed I could get to that would be 1/8th (I can do 16ths but I can't get any closer)...

Hi, Dumaresq,
What kind of router do you have?
Most plunge routers have a fine screw adjustment stop.
What I do is (on a scrap piece) bring the router to it's stop, take a cut.
Then measure the depth with a dial caliper. (cheap at harbor frieght)
Then I will adjust the fine screw 1 revolution, bring the router back to the same stop and take a second cut.
Then measure that depth with a dial caliper.
The difference between the two is the adjustment of 1 rev of the fine stop screw.
Mine happens to be 1/32" per rev (.032")
Now I can do a half turn for .015"
1/4 turn for .0075". etc.
I you provide your make & model, I could give you better direction.
-David

[Ray Collins]

New TB W4's

Jed,
Any progress on the new TB w4's?

Ray

[Jim Holtz]

Jed,
Any progress on the new TB w4's?

Ray

I'm not Jed, but here's the link to the results. New W4-1337SA Tests

Jim

[dumaresq]

Hi, Dumaresq,
What kind of router do you have?
Most plunge routers have a fine screw adjustment stop.
What I do is (on a scrap piece) bring the router to it's stop, take a cut.
Then measure the depth with a dial caliper. (cheap at harbor frieght)
Then I will adjust the fine screw 1 revolution, bring the router back to the same stop and take a second cut.
Then measure that depth with a dial caliper.
The difference between the two is the adjustment of 1 rev of the fine stop screw.
Mine happens to be 1/32" per rev (.032")
Now I can do a half turn for .015"
1/4 turn for .0075". etc.
I you provide your make & model, I could give you better direction.
-David

You are completely correct I forgot about that adjustment...

[Ray Collins]

Thanks Jim...
I have been riding along fat, dumb and happy waiting for Jed's results.

Ray

[NateTTU]

I looked on the thread and couldn't really find an answer that made sense to me so I'll probably post this question again.

How long does the 3'' port tube need to be cut? I notied on the webpage that it is 4.5'' for the mini statements and I thought it was the same for the large statements but I can't seem to find that anymore.

Thanks.

[dumaresq]

if you build it from the PE tube components listed on Curt's website then you just cut the tube to 4" and add the flared "caps" There is a post a page or two back if you use the pre-assembled precision port from PE... If your building your own port I can't help you The easiest thing to do is order the components...

[Jim Holtz]

if you build it from the PE tube components listed on Curt's website then you just cut the tube to 4" and add the flared "caps" There is a post a page or two back if you use the pre-assembled precision port from PE... If your building your own port I can't help you The easiest thing to do is order the components...

You are exactly correct. The port tube is 4" plus the inner and outer flares. The PE make a port kit is also less expensive.

Jim

[Coconutout]

I've decided to rebuild my statements. mainly because the finish on the current ones turned out to be extremely shabby. this time i'm making them sealed and also will use pvc tubes for the tangband instead of the square tunnel. i'd like to know if this would be better- 6 inch tube with 1 inch liner all around so that the hole is 4 inches matching the tangband and giving it unrestricted air flow? seems like the pvc would be too close to the dayton but just throwing the question out there also, i'd like to upgrade the crossovers if possible. are there any better components that won't shoot a hole thru my wallet? oh and any chance that there could be a version that would use tangband bamboo cones? im a sucker for paper cone drivers... love their gentle sound.