Daisy Rey, a Little sister to the Natalie P

[Evil Twin]

While addressing logistic and fabrication issues for a new POC task for a possible "Statement" level system, not to be confused with "The Statements", I have undertaken a refreshingly simple effort to create a compact and affordable "sister" to the now unavailable Natalie P. Of course, as such, it should be an MTM, and naturally it should perform at an unexpected level of competence, as in the case of the namesake.

Even with the Force as your ally, nothing is assured, but the initial investigations are proving to be promising... most promising.


The components chosen are the Faital 5FE120 5" mid woofer, most often employed for relatively high fidelity professional line arrays in sound reinforcement, and a relatively obscure part from SB Acoustics, the SB19ST.

As you can see, the basics show some potential...







Some calculation indicates that even with a standard text box on hand (15L), a vented alignment may be quite useful and musical...




And this output level at barely over half the rated Xmax.

In 20L, a slightly flatter response is possible, using passive radiators, but the extra volume and expense may not be truly worthwhile.

[Evil Twin]

A test enclosure is in preparation... the layout is obvious even to a baby Sarlacc, given the antecedents and goals.






For this first experiment, a removable phenolic panel will be used for driver mounting...






Should adjustments such as a laterally offset tweeter be desired, a new front plate will accommodate that.


It is anticipated that a series crossover similar to the NatalieP will be employed, but due to driver characteristics, it should be possible to simplify or remove some networks.

[Kevin P]

I just had to comment because of the Star Wars references. The name "Daisy Rey" caught my eye.

Is the Natalie P a reference to the prequels?

Kevin - a Jedi wannabe

[Evil Twin]

Yes, it is.

[Evil Twin]

Efforts are coming together in spite of logistic delays and mislaid equipment- never trust an aging droid!


One delaying factor is the necessity to assemble a new test configuration using locally available materials and supplies, adapting to purpose as required. This is progressing well, but some key items will not arrive until later today for completing the test station. But the general configuration can be observed in this image...




specialty cables and construction materials are not usually available locally in this isolated backwater of the galaxy...


A shipment of a preferred acoustical absorption material did arrive on time, and will be used for this project and a more massive "DeathStar" like effort to begin shortly...





This is ATS denim acoustical batting, which reportedly used to be available from a variety of vendors, including local, but with these local "supply chain" issues the local supply seems to have been exhausted, and this problem extends to other online vendors.

Ease of handling and high levels of acoustic performance in past experiments have driven it's adoption.

[duvixan]

Hello! Any progress with this project? Thank you

[Evil Twin]

Due to surprising number of unexpected events and challenges in 2022, this effort (and others)_ have been delayed/paused since August.

However, acoustic tests of the drivers have confirmed factory data regarding their suitability for the intended project... for example, for the 5FE120:



Harmonic distortion is even better than expected, HD2 being about -60 dB relative to the output.

A test enclosure is ready for final assembly, but with the current priority workload scheduled that will likely not occur before the beginning of February. A planar loaded port system is planned at this time, to get the desired tuning and 40Hz cut off frequency in a small enclosure (15L).

[Evil Twin]

It should also be noted that there is another version of this project which entered into consideration in the August/September time frame, one could call it the "Daisy Rey Supreme", with a custom loaded planar tweeter configuration in consideration, derived from the dipole version of the GRS PT-2522.











Of course, this would involve additional expense and effort - SMJ Audio might setup to supply these if demand occurs. This configuration has been developed for a much larger three way project, but obviously the tweeter may have a wider range of applications- 8 samples have been built so far.


The objective was to tune for the optimum extension and flatness of the planar driver, in comparison with the factory offerings, and this goal seems to have been fully realized.

Even the 45 degree off axis response is most satisfactory...












A test panel for this configuration has also been prepared.

[duvixan]

Thank you for answering! Any details about the "much larger three way project"? What will be used for the bass section?

[Evil Twin]

Four Dayton RSS210HF-4 woofers and four RSS265PR in each 12” wide, 40” tall woofers cabinet. the tweeter and midrange are in a separate module on top.

This project was originally undertaken with the E180HE woofers in mid, but their low midrange performance was not satisfactory, so the scope was increased about the same time we found out about the PS Audio FR30. Life has some strange coincidences at times.

[duvixan]

Oooh, I see... I assume you mean the PS FR30 inspired project, which I've been following too.
I thought there's another project in the works to convert the "Daisy Ray Supreme" into a full-blown 3-way

[Evil Twin]

No, not at this time, though it could be possible with a simple approach- imagine just 1/2 of that LF cabinet, and then setting up a three way crossover. So, two 8" woofers in a shallower cabinet- assuming one ones to have at least 30" cabinet height - and the Daisy Rey Supreme as the top module. This could be straight forward to implement, because the drivers involved are very well behaved. I'd suggest a 400Hz crossover, like the SMJ-40 or the FR30. For a built in this configuration, I would leave the Daisy Rey Supreme (or standard) cabinet sealed.

Ideally, I'd say that would call for a potential modification to the currently planned Daisy Rey cabinets, making them wider, like the bass cabinet, or like another system in the works, the Modula PBD or PB. (PuriFi-Beyma-Dayon (with PR) or PB (PuriFi-BlieSMa) without PR. This is intended to be a 12" wide system also, more or less (current design is 12-1/2" wide) Using PuriFi PTT6.5X04 and BlieSMa T25A-6. Note the Modula PB(D) is intended to be a deep bass output and given the drivers involved, lower sensitivity. Not under consideration for a three way stack.

[duvixan]

May I ask why the 5fe120 was chosen, instead of something like an SB15xxx?

[JonMarsh]

Now, if I was in a snarky mood, (and I am a bit after Jeff Beck's passing) I'd say just go measure one and find out...

😏

OTOH, I can elaborate a few points...

• I did a lot of Pro Audio system development long before I turned to messing around with consumer level stuff. Even then, I used Audax Pro parts in several "consumer" designs done in the 80's.
• The Faital 5FE120 uses what I would call the classic pro sound paper cone design profile, as also employed by many others including 18 Sound, (6ND430 for example) other Faital products (like the 6RS140) and now by PuriFi. Hmmm, maybe they know something the HiFi OEM's don't...
• The 5FE120 is designed for high power line arrays, and is quite robust as regards power handling for a driver of this size. Yet...
• The on axis performance is exemplary, with almost no detectable breakup mode, the distortion is very low, and the polar behavior at 45 degrees is remarkable for a driver of this size. Compare it to, say, an SB15CRC30-8 or SB15CAC30-8. Compare linearity, sensitivity vs. Xmax and polar response. Compare price.
• This part was the "winnah" for a selection contest for a wide range midrange driver for a center channel design of moderate cost that would play at Dolby Theater spec sound levels. Not home, Theater. Tip of the hat to Joe Isuzu.
• Because of the driver brands carried by popular distributors like Madisound, there's a tendency for the DIY crowd to just focus on Seas, Scanspeak, SB Acoustics, etc, because that's what they see at the big distributors. Parts Express dose carry some Faital parts, including this one. Like the big DIY distributors these days, they often have stocking and availability issues on many products- these aren't expected back in until early February. Just keep in mind there's a big wide world across the pond, that with current Euro to USD exchange rates can be very attractive, and you just might be surprised at delivery times- I just ordered eight of the new version SL26R passive radiator from Europe on Sunday evening, and they arrived on Wednesday.

Of course, my last point is that this is DIY, and there's nothing to prevent you or anyone else from taking these ideas and implementing them with YOUR preferred parts! Right?


'Nuff said?

[duvixan]

I hope not too snarky...
Truth is, I have a pair of 5fe120 which I bought on a whim (and also fountek fw135h) and I was extremely surprised seeing them mentioned and considered for projects here on htguide.
Never thought they could be highly regarded, esp. considering the price (I'm in Europe and got a pair for under 60eur delivered).
I guess I was curious to find out what makes it so special.
Anyways, thank you for the detailed answer. Looking forward for updates on these...

[JonMarsh]

A little more about this...


The Daisy Rey is literally a spin off from the CC work. What I saw was an opportunity to create a budget speaker that might truly perform out of it's class... The SB19ST tweeter is the first target for the CC. It is also a budget part that performs well out of its class. Combinations like this can be synergistic with the right characteristics:

• Very smooth Midwoofer response that will work well with a minimum complexity crossover, not requiring any notch filters to suppress break break up modes and resonance amplification of distortion products
• Good sensitivity, means more modest amplifiers will give good results.
• Wide off axis response gives wider application usage, as the power response is more uniform off axis and listening experience across the room or for background listening, even in another room, is better balanced.
• These would have good application as HT mains or surrounds in a mid range system on a budget. The tweaked "Supreme" version with planar tweeter is just me running amuck after considering relatively modestly priced possibilities, and is still relatively modestly priced, especially for a DIY effort willing to build the rear enclosure themselves.
• There is a wall mount or in wall mount surround speaker in development with a single 6RS140 woofer and probably a BlieSMa TB25A. Obviously, an MTM based on that driver is also possible, though a fair amount larger than the Daisy Rey concept. It would also be more focused on a HT mains application with base management, due to the Fs of the driver.

I'm not surprised at your delivered price, though obviously shipping to the Western USA is more pricy than in Europe- OTOH, I get excused from VAT!

Note, the SB19ST is only about $20 each over here. Not for low crossover frequencies, but a very nice part otherwise!

And the FW135 is a nice part, too, have a couple of pairs, but it's not as "nice" as the 5FE120!