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So in my other theater projects I've always done towers (NatP and Modula MTM). Working on the basement and thinking about the design of a new HT set-up and with kids and such I think in-wall front speakers instead of floor standing speakers will be best. I saw a thread about NatP in-wall and that might be a good option but wanted to see if there were any other projects or recommended speakers I should research?
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There's an in-wall version of the ZA5.2:
Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson. -
I found the NatP in-wall speaker thread again and will probably go that route since I already have the drivers from the tower build. I also have my Modula MTM towers but didn't see any in-wall crossovers, anyone know if Jon or someone else designed in-wall crossovers for that build? I could be persuaded to try other designs if there are better options out there.Comment
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Keep looking, Justin, or PM me if you can't find what you want. I've downloaded a lot of NatP/Modula MT/MTM crossovers. My previous CC is the in-wall NatP. It was the best CC a toppled NatP could be, but still a far-sight inferior to the Modula MTM CC now in use. Whether it's Jon Marsh or Evil Twin, his in-wall XO does what you need.
Stay well,
FrankComment
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Some other options since you have the drivers. https://www.divine-audio.com/in-khan-neatos/
I think you will be pleased with either JCD's or Jon's projects. Having built speakers by both I can say that either would be awesome.Michael
Chesapeake Va.Comment
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Thanks everyone. This is the NatP project I found: https://www.htguide.com/forum/showth...ossover-design
I've ordered the x-over parts but willing to look at other designs as well. Unfortunately, I had actually built the Dayton IIs that I thought were NatPs.
Other designs I looked at:
1) Zaph 2-Way
2) Modula MT
3) In-Khan-Neatos
I was very interested in the In-Khan-Neatos but saw they were deeper in the wall and I only have the typical 2x4 construction. Does it matter how much depth I have or can I just design it with the correct internal volume?
Also with the NatP, do I want to keep the same baffle set up with the tweeter offset or should I center all the speakers?
My plan is for this to be a basement projector theater shared space. Hope to do a 5.1.2 atmos system. Plan is to have this project to be the two main front speakers, I have a modula MTM build for center that I can put on a shelf or rebuild with the in-wall x-over (don't have documentation of which x-over I used originally). I have Volt-6s I'd like to use for rears if I can figure out a good way to mount them. Lastly would be in-ceiling speakers for Atmos - looking at the dayton audio selections.
Note: With kids and hosting people I figured for a few years it's much better to have stuff off the floor and in-wall. Hopefully when we get an empty nest I can go towers if I want to play.
I'll send photos a little later so you can see the space.Comment
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Looks like the In-Khan-Neatos need RS180-4 and I'll be getting the RS180-8. Might order them anyway to try it out since the 3-way configuration are supposed to be nicer for movie watchingComment
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Absolutely! If only for structural reasons; offset makes for thicker inter-driver ribs.
Basement - plan on bass traps, and multiple subwoofers.... basement projector theater... 5.1.2 atmos system. (NatP are) two main front speakers, I have a modula MTM build for center ... (don't have documentation...). I have Volt-6s I'd like to use for rears ... Lastly would be in-ceiling speakers for Atmos...
.... Hopefully when we get an empty nest I can go towers if I want to play. ...
5.1.2 is 2 ceiling speakers? I'm considering Atmos, but read that you need 4 ceiling speakers for a good effect.
MTM CC highly recommended, but... an AT screen would let you do 3 vertical NatPs.
I cannot recommend you use horns for surrounds. I have Volt 6 surrounds. You can have them if you're determined to go that route, mounted in angled cabinets using the DIYSoundGroup baffle. I had to try a horn, a "put-up or shut-up" kind of thing. Great surround effect ONLY if your head is perfectly positioned. As long as both of your ears are in line with the speaker's axis, you can't tell where it is. Move a smidgen and the surround effect is broken, the rear sound field collapses and all the sound is coming from a black circle on the wall. You may have a different experience.
For RS-180/RS-28-based theaters, I think the best surround is going to be based on that driver pair, and Modula MT is my choice. I have used RS28's in other speakers that I could cannibalize, or use a Modula MT alternative tweeter. Or both... I need 8 surrounds for the 9.4.2 installation I envision (and can't afford). I made test boxes, designed to give an RS180-8 a natural 80Hx roll-off, but they're too small to fit one of Jon's cross-overs. I really need to replace those Volt 6's!
If i were looking at projection, I'd go in-wall up front, but I just upgraded to a 75" flat panel that's the right size for the room, and I don't see a need given we don't view a lot of 2.35:1 program. Then again, I need to get to boxes first.... You're going to move faster than me! Best of luck with whatever you decide.
Stay well,
FrankComment
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I just want to add to what fbov was saying, as I had a similar problem. Keeping your head in perfect position for long periods of time is very distracting and uncomfortable. It makes it harder to get fully immersed.Comment
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Justin, the original In-Khan-Neatos design calls for the RS180-4 not the 8 Ohm. Swapping drivers may need a crossover re-design...Michael
Chesapeake Va.Comment
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I already have the volt 6s from a previous build. But might go with your recommendation of Modula MT eventually.
The AT screens seems like a great solution but haven't done any research on them. What's a good budget AT screen?
My receiver is only capable of 5.1.2 atmos (Denon AVR-X3300W).Comment
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Here's my "Blank Canvas". I have a long ways to go for design.
Unfortunately it's not a fully enclosed room and that soffit is there.
Equipment:
Denon AVR-3300W
Emotiva XPA5 first generation
HTPCComment
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There's no such thing. It's arguable whether there's a good non-budget AT screen if you are asking that question here versus over at AVForums. Acoustically transparent screens are generally made by perforating the screen material, though a "weave" type is becoming more common (not cheap, though). This can lead to visual artifacting around the perforations (e.g., moire, etc.), and the hole sizes and spacing have a non-uniform attenuation curve. These tend to favor the midrange (i.e., dialog), but you need to account for changes to upper treble (typically dies) and bass (need more). EQ/DSP is your friend.
If you want to fill your front wall visually, then this is often the preferred way to go -- especially for people who don't want to look at speakers. I tend to prefer to put speakers to the sides that have good horizontal dispersion (i.e., Directivity Index, Power Response). Having the center channel above or below the screen should be fine, but be careful of angles (back to the horizontal and vertical dispersion patterns...). If you want to sit in more than one row, then having a center channel mounted above the screen, but angled downward, is probably best (the front row affects the acoustics for the second row, after all, if they are directly in the line of fire). Room treatment matters way more than most of these placement decisions (people and furniture are part of the room treatment!).
For the screen, most people try to go as big as possible without realizing how uncomfortable a too-big screen can be. Plan for your eye level to be about 1/3 of the way up from the bottom of the screen, and the screen to consume no more than 30* - 40* of your horizontal field of view. You can go a lot bigger, but experience it first-hand so that you know what you want to live with. For example, some IMAX screens go beyond 90*, which means that the edges of the screen are relegated to your peripheral vision. I like going to IMAX shows, but I wouldn't design my HT around that experience (my screen in Houston was 77" wide with a 120" viewing distance, and I wouldn't go too much bigger).
The 1/3 rule in practice will determine whether you've got enough room vertically to mount speakers given a typical 36" ear/eye level above the floor.Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson.Comment
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Yeah the more research I've been doing the more I'm thinking of building out the wall and going with a transparent screen. I don't know if anyone else feels this way about AVSforums but it doesn't feel like it is geared towards ppl who don't have a large budget. Guess it's all relative.Comment
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I did the In-Khan-Neatos in an in-wall installation for a two channel system (old in-walls failed). These worked out great for me.Comment
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How about Atmos speakers? If I'm going to stick with the Dayton Drivers (ModulaMTM or NatP) should I look at the doing the in-wall MT speakers?
What orientation would I install these? Tweeter closer to the listener or the speakers perpendicular to the listener?
As someone mentioned I'll probably have to do 4 atmos speakers and upgrade in the future.Comment
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Im looking at in/on wall options at the moment also. The In-Khan-Neatos call for the RS28A-4 tweeter. I havent really found a definitive answer yet but does anyone know if the new RST28A-4 close enough to straight swap out?
BazComment
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They are different enough that a crossover update is required. If you really want to build them, just keep your eyes open on the classified and ebay. I managed to find 3 sets but measurements show that only 4 are usable. Quality control on these tweeters wasn't all that great from what I am reading.Comment
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