Using Dayton RS3-Way Towers as In-Wall

[Twan]

Thanks cjd,

Can't wait to hear them, sometimes I wonder if I should have made the baffle thicker it is now 18 mm (3/4") on the other hand this would have made the volume smaller.
I did make some 12 mm rings to clue on the backside of the baffle so it is easier to install the drivers (mdf is just not the best material to use screws in) those plywood rings will also stiffen the baffle a bit. (I hope)

Twan

[Twan]

Hi CJD,

Amp blown up.
I finished my first speaker and connected it to my old luxman amp. De speaker played for a while and then the sound stopped. Left channel blown. I connected the speaker to the right channel and played one song before this channel blew up too.
The speaker sounded OK, I must say that there wasn't much bass coming out. (the driver worked) The mids where really clear and smooth. (maybe a bit high)
Is there a way that I can check why my old amp blew up. (I must say that it happend once before and I had to replace some transistors).
Thanking you in advance.
Twan

[cjd]

Oh my!

First thing to do is to triple check the wiring on the crossovers - a mixed connection somewhere can result in a dead short along the way - and the system still might make noise.

The woofer circuit is quite simple, assuming you properly wired the RS180-4's in series. Otherwise you'll have very low impedance which could also cause amp troubles. I would also do a quick impedance check on the drivers - it's possible you have a dud with a shorted voice-coil or something.

Looking at your mid crossover photo, I admit I can't tell how the wiring works on the side marked "OUT" and it vaguely looks like you may have wired + straight to - there.

If you are using the 2nd variant on my page, that may also be just a bit much on the impedance load for the amp, but I've never heard of something like that killing an amp, unless there are NO thermal protection circuits.

Feel free to post photos here, or email me directly - cjd at divine-audio dot com.

This is why I always use a cheap amp the first time I fire up a speaker. :/

[Twan]

Oh my!

First thing to do is to triple check the wiring on the crossovers - a mixed connection somewhere can result in a dead short along the way - and the system still might make noise.

The woofer circuit is quite simple, assuming you properly wired the RS180-4's in series. Otherwise you'll have very low impedance which could also cause amp troubles. I would also do a quick impedance check on the drivers - it's possible you have a dud with a shorted voice-coil or something.

Looking at your mid crossover photo, I admit I can't tell how the wiring works on the side marked "OUT" and it vaguely looks like you may have wired + straight to - there.

If you are using the 2nd variant on my page, that may also be just a bit much on the impedance load for the amp, but I've never heard of something like that killing an amp, unless there are NO thermal protection circuits.

Feel free to post photos here, or email me directly - cjd at divine-audio dot com.

This is why I always use a cheap amp the first time I fire up a speaker. :/

Thank you so much cjd.

I did what you said and inpected all the wiring, I made the most stupid mistake, on the "simple" Woofer crossover I Exchanged the Coil with the capacitor and visa versa.
I Just put the components in each others place. Can't believe I did that. I checked the thing over and over but never saw the mistake.
It is sad that my amp the old luxmann died but I can repair it, that is the good thing about old Amps.

I repaired the crossover and hooked the speaker up to my Onkyo. (after I measured the resistance 7.3 Ohm)
Turned the CD player on And....
I love it. I have only one speaker and it plays mono but the sound is great. Me and my wife just love the sound.
Enough low, smooth mid. I was scared that the speaker would sound harsh with the aluminium cone's but noting of that I find the sound perfectly balanced.
Of course I have to listen a lot more and play with the stuffing but I am very happy.
Chris thank you so much for all the help and sharing your design's
Now I have to wait for the other drivers to arrive so I can finish the other two speakers and put the all behind the screen.

I will make some photo's soon.
Twan

[cjd]

You're in good company with the mistake - we've all made them.

I'd still double check the rest of the wiring - that shouldn't have caused amp problems, which leaves me worried something else might be amiss.

Glad noise is being made, happiness is found, etc.

[Twan]

Hi cdj,
I check them again I am a bit worried now. I played the speaker for hours on the onkyo and had no problems maybe the old luxman can't handle the somewhat low impedance of this speaker. I check again for sure.

Here are some picutures.
The repaired and the wrong lowpass.

The foam clued in the speaker cabinets

Twan

[Twan]

Some more,
Which one would be the best left or right ?
On the left one I filled the whole baffle with foam.

Would it be wise to place foam on both sides of the dividers mid/ low. (hope you understand what I mean)
maybe is a bit too much foam then.

The Tweeter crossover.

Twan

[cjd]

Actually, the miswired woofer would have resulted in an insanely low impedance. I just did the mental model wrong before.

[impala454]

I would definitely replace the dog in the right one with a crossover. Might improve sound quality :rofl:

[Twan]

Actually, the miswired woofer would have resulted in an insanely low impedance. I just did the mental model wrong before.

Thanks Chris, This makes me sleep a lot better.

What do you think about the foam ?
Is it possible to put too much in the cabinet

Twan

[Twan]

I would definitely replace the dog in the right one with a crossover. Might improve sound quality :rofl:

I think I will, thanks, Maybe then I can get rid of a howly sound.

[cjd]

The foam looks fine. You can definitely add more or less to taste if you feel like experimenting. You could also add polyfill or fiberglass or other similar stuffing, but I usually find less, if it's not perfect, sounds better than too much. Perfect is, of course, perfect - it's also not usually chasing down.

[Twan]

The foam looks fine. You can definitely add more or less to taste if you feel like experimenting. You could also add polyfill or fiberglass or other similar stuffing, but I usually find less, if it's not perfect, sounds better than too much. Perfect is, of course, perfect - it's also not usually chasing down.

Hi Chris, All the speaker are in. I did some experimenting but coudn't hear to much difference. I ended up with a lose fill of scheepwool.
The sound of the speakers is great we all love them. So glad I made them.

Made a few photo's, The surrounding of the screen is white, the side walls are white and the ceeling is white. This has to do with the WAF factor she didn't want a theatre look in the living room. And I must agree with her. It pollutes the image but is is still great to watch. Love the sound coming from the picture. Now I have to concentrate on the cupboard that I have to make under the screen. In this cubboard I am going to place one or two subwoofers (depends on budget) and the amps.

[cjd]

Dang! Nice build! If you can go black on the whole front wall you'll benefit - it's surprising how much ambient reflected light plays a role in how detailed shadow details can be.

[---k---]

Looks great. I'm jealous.

[Twan]

Thanks Chris and Ryan,

At first I had the frontwall all black but my wife didn't agree she said it looked too much like a movie theatre (I agreed with her, but liked it a lot)
Maybe later I can make it a bit darker.

Thank you soo much for the help, the speakers sound really good they are much better than my XTZ 99.26 MKII.
I am wondering what Low pass filter I should use on my amp. Now after some breef listening 40 Hz seemed to be the best choice.

Twan

[cjd]

40Hz is surprisingly low, but not unreasonable. I think I run 60Hz. A lot depends on your room too.

A lot of folks use dark curtains. My screen sits in a cove, so I actually have side-wall and ceiling all black (it's acoustic treatment wrapped in black wool felt). In my case these surfaces are a lot closer than yours, so it is a bigger deal for me. The IB sub is below the screen with a black grill, so that wall is also treated and black.

[Paul W]

Maybe install two screens hinged in the corners. Nice art when closed over the screen, black when opened to the sides. Fiberglass or Rockwool inside.

[Twan]

Maybe install two screens hinged in the corners. Nice art when closed over the screen, black when opened to the sides. Fiberglass or Rockwool inside.

Thanks Chris, just want to say that we all love the speakers, a got them calibrated and they sound super good.
Great idea Paul may i will try it later, now it is a bad time to install it. Waf factor

I wish everybody on the forum a very happy and healty new year.

Twan

[Twan]

Finished project and happy with result

First of all I want to thank everybody on the forum and especially Chris for helping me out.
I finished my project, it was a lot of work but nice to do.
I tried to blend my mini cinema into the living room and I think I partly succeeded. my wife likes it .
In the end I had to make something to cover the white ceiling the projector image just got too washed out.
I made a hush box for the Benq w7000 projector, the projector was too noisy hanging over our heads.
I love the sound of the speakers but still have some trouble with the sub’s blending in.
Just can’t get the crossover in the pioneer right.
Now I use the plus setting in the pioneer that way the speakers sound much fuller.
When I use the 50 Hz crossover without the plus it seams that the woofers don’t produce any sound at all.

I would like to try the REF method but I don’t know if this can ruin the speakers because they will receive both the LFE and the Full Bass signal from L and R.

http://rel.net/support/rel-connectivity/

HIGH-LEVEL and .1/LFE inputs can and should be used simultaneously to achieve the best effect. The benefits are two-fold when used with a home cinema system. The .1/LFE input reproduces the .1 Sub/LFE channel and the high-level connection underpins the main front speakers thereby turning these into truly full range devices. Hint: The main front speakers must be set to ‘Large or Full Range’ operation on the processor, otherwise the main speakers will not receive the full range of bass intended for these channels and that your REL requires to properly operate.

Thanks for all the help.
Twan

[madmac]

Very nice setup!!!

[5th element]

Ou shiny! is what sprung to mind

[---k---]

Wow! That turned out fantastic. I think ANY wife should be very happy with that.

Subs take some time to get integrate perfectly. I can believe that a 50 hz crossover with a sealed RS180 sounds slightly lacking. But, you might just like a little house curve. Nothing wrong with running the plus setting, but the taking the plus off the 180 might help relieve them of some load which will reduce their distortion. You got to play with it to see what sounds right. But, I wouldn't hesitate to try a 60 or 80 hz crossover too. What sounds best will somewhat also depend on the subs and I don't remember what you have. --Though, I've found it easiest to just to build something big and loud,stop agonizing over perfection, throw a DVD in and sit back and enjoy.

[kevinm]

Very, very clean setup. I love it!

Very classy!

[Twan]

Thank you all for the nice comments,

I switched the inputs from the sub to the high inputs (speaker cable connected) and I must say that it seems much better to my ears. Much more in balance.
"K" you are so right I find myself analysing when I am listening to music and watching a movie. At one time you have to start to enjoy your setup as it is.
The system sounds sooo good if i compare it to the systems from my friends.

Twan

[Twan]

Hi guys,

Just want to let you know that I made a change that drastically improved the stereo sound.
Till now I have used my pioneer SC LX76 as amplifier. This is rated in stereo as 140 Watts per channel 8 Ohms.
I happend to have a old HK435 that I never used anymore. Just for fun I connected the HK to the pre outs of the pioneer.
My god straight away I heard a great difference it is like my speakers came alive. My wife was sitting on the couch and asked me what I did because the music sounded so good.
The music reveals more detail and sounds more open with better dynamics. So much for the class D amps, the HK435 is rated 70 watts per channel but gives much more power than the pioneer. I still can't believe the difference it made but the HK is going to stay. I connected the LCR speakers to it. Even at high power it all stays controlled and clean. I am so exited that I had to let you know.
Twan

[cjd]

HK does some very good stuff.

I've recently been part of a small informal amplifier comparison, and ... there was none. The T-amps sounded nice on the top, but lacked bass - not to mention control. My chip-amp didn't have control but reached deep. A Class D was... meh. (I think it was D). The Crown and an Adcom were eye openers on just how much better they managed things. Tracks that sent woofers into physical excursion limits did not do so on the latter two amps.

Glad you're still enjoying!

[Twan]

Hi cjd

I Never believed that an amplifier could make so much difference. I thought is was just audiophile talk. Your speaker design is perfect now they are really breathing.
I would like to try an Adcom but I have spend to much money allready. I don't want a divorce . and I can't believe it can sound even better. Just don't understand the pioneer reviews where they are all talking about the good sound of this D amplifier.
Just don't believe it. Not enough power to manage speakers.

[Twan]

Hi

It's been a long time that i have been on the forum.
Still enjoying my speakers. But from the beginning i always thought there wasn't enough bass.
I have changed my amplifier for a marantz 7005 and use the analog output from my yamaha a3050.
I compared my speakers with a very nice XTZ speaker. The XTZ had definitly more bass at neutral settings for both speakers. (left the DIY speaker en right channel XTZ speaker.)
I did some EQ with the yamaha on de Left channel. turns out that I had to increase the bass (50 - 400 Hz) by more than 6 db to get the speakers sounding about the same.
Now I use these settings for left and right for both DIY speakers. It sounds very nice but I can't help to think that something is wrong.
Today I took the screen off and checked the connections. The two 4 ohm speakers are wired in series.
I coudn't find anything wrong with te connections or filter.
The only thing that I found was that the coil (in series) has a resistence of 1.2 Ohm.
Maybe I need a coil with a bigger wire now it is 18 awg.

Can someone help me a bit.
Thanking you in advance.
Twan