SMJ Audio TTC style Ardent D Build

[Steve Manning]

What are those white spacer ribs made out of? Are they painted white?

They are a high density styrene and come that color. It can be painted, just make sure the paint you use is good for plastic. These spacers then have 1/32" gasket applied to both surface for sealing.

[JonMarsh]

If you don't have a latex allergy, consider getting a Talalay latex mattress if you upgrade from the cheap one. However, given your recent sleep, why spend money when it isn't broken. Depending upon which specific foam mattress and gel vs no gel, the latext ones tend to have better edge support and more support, in general, without creating pressure points. There are a ton of online dealers (many located in Phoenix, of all places), but if you've got an IKEA in one of your haunts, then you can give a more basic model a try in-store.

I'm actually pretty dang happy with how this one is working out- so happy that the 3x more expensive Casper mattress we were using in San Ramon got taken to storage up here, will be used for a guest bedroom later.

[JonMarsh]

Actually there will be at least 2 boards per cabinet, maybe 3. Once the master gets me a parts list and I get the parts in, I can start building the jigsaw puzzle and see how it works out.

I'm going to be trying for just two, combining the woofer and tweeter on one, the midrange on the other, but we have to see...

[svenarajala]

I'm going to be trying for just two, combining the woofer and tweeter on one, the midrange on the other, but we have to see...

It would still be all the pieces you posted though in the Ardent D thread though right? Just organized down to the Steve style build that I don't want to compete with because it just looks so nice and neat.

[JonMarsh]

Yup- all the pieces…

It’s going to be an interesting year…

[svenarajala]

Steve contacted me this weekend with exciting news that Jon has the crossover designs are ready for this build. After the beautiful work Steve did on building g the Calliope crossovers it makes it hard for me to want to do that. My soldering skills are weak and I have asked Steve to work his magic on these for this build. After the crossovers are done I think I just need to order parts from the list Steve gives me to assemble. This will most likely be my summer project. In the meantime I need to start tearing down my boat motor to replace the valve assembly on each side. Last ride of the season last year I got back to port with no oil and the alarm starting to go off. Anyhow plenty keep myself busy while Steve finishes up all the parts and pieces for this build

[JonMarsh]

Busy summer for all?

Steve contacted me this weekend with exciting news that Jon has the crossover designs are ready for this build. After the beautiful work Steve did on building g the Calliope crossovers it makes it hard for me to want to do that. My soldering skills are weak and I have asked Steve to work his magic on these for this build. After the crossovers are done I think I just need to order parts from the list Steve gives me to assemble. This will most likely be my summer project. In the meantime I need to start tearing down my boat motor to replace the valve assembly on each side. Last ride of the season last year I got back to port with no oil and the alarm starting to go off. Anyhow plenty keep myself busy while Steve finishes up all the parts and pieces for this build

You're going to have a very busy summer... for some reason, that sounds familiar!

And for those that are curious, here's the base schematic, which is a good example of why even with well behaved drivers, a Duelund crossover is component intensive (I.E., a bit expensive)

[Steve Manning]

Well with what Jon posted above, we have "most" of the parts in hand for the crossovers. Of course as luck would have it, the parts that are on back order cover all of the circuit boards ..... makes layout less than ideal!

Parts waiting for a few of their brethren ....

[kevinlin1013]

Jon , thanks for sharing the crossover.
The cabinet of the prototype is tilt but the SMJ version is not. Is my understanding right?
Thanks a lot!

[svenarajala]

That is my understanding as well. The SMJ version is vertical with no tilt. I went with this design to match the Calliope kit I assembled from SMJ last year. I wanted the modern curved look and this design checked that box for me.

[JonMarsh]

Jon , thanks for sharing the crossover.
The cabinet of the prototype is tilt but the SMJ version is not. Is my understanding right?
Thanks a lot!

It is only tilted a very small amount- 7-1/2 degrees- half of what the normal Ardent configuration is, due to the special base and how it works with the cabinet design, which is 15 degrees like an Ardent. In this regards, it is similar esthetically and physically to the Vimberg Mino.

One of my former colleagues and I had a shared saying, "Steal from the best, and ignore the rest"

However, in stealing from the best, one is not trying hard enough if you don't cheat to improve what they did, so the Ardent cabinet is not made of MDF, but maple and bamboo plywood; and it uses a well designed passive radiator configuration, not ports going out the back side. And only two woofers were deemed necessary with this configuration, which raises the minimum impedance- the Vimberg drops to 3 ohms in the midbass, while the Ardent D is comfortably above that, never dropping below 4 ohms, and having a flatter and smoother impedance curve. The Mino is tuned to about 24Hz if the upper port is blocked, and 34Hz if the upper port is opened, but the small ports will likely present port compression due to air flow, and this also means less reinforcement in the meat of the bass area. Personally, I think they ended up straddling the optimum tuning- one is too high, one too low. I suggest modeling it in Unibox or VituixCAD if you're curious about the tradeoffs, and look at the range of port output and level. The extra driver certainly will help the output level, but at a cost (for the driver!) and in terms of demands on the amplifier. The PR maximum output for the Ardent D or the port output tuning for the TTC version is 30Hz. That's well suited to the characteristics of the driver, based on measurements and listening tests.

A key factor in all the Ardent designs has been making them relatively easy to drive, not requiring an Aragon or Krell or the like for good results.

Also, in examining a number of reviews, the tested step response for the Mino indicates that it is either a three way second order, (easy to implement due to he acoustic origin of all drivers being aligned in the mounting plane) or a Duelund or Duelund similar crossover. In this regard, the special characteristics of the driver permit new options for the crossovers, without resorting to ladder delay networks or the like.


Most of this has been discussed in the original thread started by Evil Twin...

Considering the drivers used and their cost, the Mino represents good value compared to, say, an Avalon Indra, selling for the roughly the same price, at $31,000 USD. Weight is about 159 lb. each.

https://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php?44456-Ardent-D-aka-Kurosawa-Jr-Winter-Camp

And they clearly have better photography than Evil Twin!




But these definitely have some interesting characteristics, and can be built for a "reasonable" price- not inexpensive, but I think reasonable considering what you wind up with.

[Steve Manning]

Crossover construction is underway ..... tweeter boards were the first up. Two down, four to go.

[svenarajala]

Crossover construction is underway ..... tweeter boards were the first up. Two down, four to go.

That looks like modern art! Exciting to see these get built and the kit coming to completion. Did all the parts come in for the other 4 boards?

[Steve Manning]

That looks like modern art! Exciting to see these get built and the kit coming to completion. Did all the parts come in for the other 4 boards?

Yep, I have all the parts on hand and board 3 has been started. Between the 3 boards they ought to add another 20 lbs to the mix. :W I'm seeing a trend here, I think Jon is trying to hurt us.

[JonMarsh]

Now guys, remember these are BABY Ardents! Though the woofers are a bit meatier than the first dual 7 Ardents, I suppose.... and OK, I suppose the Maple Ply and Bamboo cabinets I built DO weigh a skosh more than the originals...

And these originals didn't even have the crossovers internal- they were far too big. (look on the floor to the right, or go back and check the thread...)

[svenarajala]

Yep, I have all the parts on hand and board 3 has been started. Between the 3 boards they ought to add another 20 lbs to the mix. :W I'm seeing a trend here, I think Jon is trying to hurt us.

The Calliopes were my warm up, now it will be time to show off my deadlift skills I have been training for almost a year now at the gym again. I will plan on assembling these in the basement that way I don’t have to worry about stairs or corners. Maybe Jon is has an underlying message of power lifting is healthy?

[JonMarsh]

The Calliopes were my warm up, now it will be time to show off my deadlift skills I have been training for almost a year now at the gym again. I will plan on assembling these in the basement that way I don’t have to worry about stairs or corners. Maybe Jon is has an underlying message of power lifting is healthy?

You betcha Sven! Which is why, for being a bit of a Geezer, I do all my heavy lifting chores myself- including everything in the state relocation. Now, I'm not a dummy, and I have a great collection of hand trucks, and know how to use them to advantage, but maintaining back and upper body strength is a priority. Those sheets of bamboo ply and pieces of 1-12" maple ply aren't getting any lighter... and the Ardent's seem to be getting denser and denser as a get older- just like my mental faculties?

Gotta be practical you know... unlike, say, Tom Petty, I don't have a roadie named Bart...

[Carl V]

Now guys, remember these are BABY Ardents! Though the woofers are a bit meatier than the first dual 7 Ardents, I suppose.... and OK, I suppose the Maple Ply and Bamboo cabinets I built DO weigh a skosh more than the originals...

And these originals didn't even have the crossovers internal- they were far too big. (look on the floor to the right, or go back and check the thread...)

Is that Thomas House in the back ground...It looks like his Line Array.

We got to hear & see those speakers back in the day. And Yeah they were heavy & Stout.

heck That NeoCC was Stout...

[Steve Manning]

And then there were six ......





All boards are done with visual and meter checks ..... not too many fixes.

Need to hook everything up and run an impedance check and see if everything looks right.

[svenarajala]

Woo hoo the crossovers look gorgeous Steve.

[JonMarsh]

Woo hoo the crossovers look gorgeous Steve.

Now if only I could figure out a way to get him to build mine for me...

[JonMarsh]

Is that Thomas House in the back ground...It looks like his Line Array.

We got to hear & see those speakers back in the day. And Yeah they were heavy & Stout.

heck That NeoCC was Stout...

Yeah, those were tested at Thomas's after I hauled them out there... sometimes it seems like yesterday, other times like ages ago. A lot has gone down since then...

[svenarajala]

I got the notice from Steve that all the parts are ready to pickup. I have to figure out when to get down to Suffolk, VA to pick them up. I also need to rent a car. My car is to small to bring all the pieces back in. Like the last build from SMJ I need to get some parts ordered to complete the assembly. This is gonna be a fun summer!!

[JonMarsh]

And it’s just really starting for you!

[svenarajala]

I rented a car the other day and decided to take Friday off to drive down to Suffolk Thursday evening to pick up the completed kit Friday morning. My plan to not have much traffic was a fail, it was heavy traffic the entire 3 hour drive down. However it was worth it because I was able to take all the parts to my house and begin the assembly. Steve went over some pointers putting these together and then I loaded them into the car. I was excited to see the rear plate he made for this build. This will be my second SMJ build now and twice the work since these are double the size of the Calliope. Crossing my fingers it won't be a crazy hot muggy summer here in Norther VA :roll: so I can manage to get them painted and not melt.



I will post updates as the assembly progresses.

[technodanvan]

Exciting stuff, here's hoping the weather is agreeable!

[JonMarsh]

I rented a car the other day and decided to take Friday off to drive down to Suffolk Thursday evening to pick up the completed kit Friday morning. My plan to not have much traffic was a fail, it was heavy traffic the entire 3 hour drive down. However it was worth it because I was able to take all the parts to my house and begin the assembly. Steve went over some pointers putting these together and then I loaded them into the car. I was excited to see the rear plate he made for this build. This will be my second SMJ build now and twice the work since these are double the size of the Calliope. Crossing my fingers it won't be a crazy hot muggy summer here in Norther VA :roll: so I can manage to get them painted and not melt.



I will post updates as the assembly progresses.

Yeah, on the East coast the humidity can be pretty killer at times! Good luck with the build! Steve has done a great job putting this together, IMO.

[Steve Manning]

Yeah, on the East coast the humidity can be pretty killer at times! Good luck with the build! Steve has done a great job putting this together, IMO.

Humidity is starting to kick up, a little time yet before it gets real nasty. Temps have been in the mid 90's the last couple of days though.

[svenarajala]

It has been a hot minute since I have updated my build thread. For the last 2 months since I picked up the pieces from Steve they have been sitting in this room stacked and waiting to be built.



2 weeks ago I was able to get the inserts sanded. I used scrap pieces from the Calliope build to secure the spacers for sanding. Luckily I had just enough of the 3/8" rod to hold the spacers in place.



Yesterday Monday the 19th of July, I got all the spacers cleaned with some denatured alcohol and started assembling them onto wooden rod scraps I had from the Calliope build.





A combination of clothespins and 3/8 bolts were used for spacing the between the spacers.





During a scheduled lunch break today I was able to spray some paint onto the spacers and got 2 coats done. I have the lazy susan from the last build and some scrap wood from a very old project to use as a base on the lazy susan.





Next up is to start sanding the bamboo parts because they are fast to sand and then I can start on the MDF parts. Those were the most work last time, but why not save the best for last?

[JonMarsh]

I can relate to the way that other parts of life get in the way of speaker work- happy to see you back at it!

:T

[svenarajala]

I can relate to the way that other parts of life get in the way of speaker work- happy to see you back at it!

:T

Lots of logistics this summer with helping grandma move to a retirement home, son got into summer camp, and in August my sister is getting married. I’m setting a completion goal for end of October. As history seems to go, I end up starting a new project around that time. Cough, cough the SMJ CC build

[svenarajala]

The spacers are now drying and I will have to order more of the cork seal tape from McMaster. I should need around 6 rolls for the 46 spacers. I have to take an inventory of the hardware I have left from the Calliope and then order the remainder from McMaster. The shipping is pricey with McMaster so I want to get everything or close to in one order. I plan on ordering the ViaBlue absorbers for the base and plan on getting some granite pieces to put the Ardent D's on.

The spacers drying on the dining room table for the next few days:





After work ended I was able to get the 2 baffles sanded. The first photo shows some of the bumps, it was hard to capture, but my fingers felt it. I used 220 first and then went over the baffles with some 320. They are super smooth now The left baffle was not sanded yet, but the right one was. I sanded these on top of some left over xps foam to have some padding between the table and the baffles. I didn't want to take any chance of scratching or denting these baffles.

[svenarajala]

I forgot to mention I ordered Viborg binding posts from Amazon. These should be shipped in another week or 2. These are longer than the Cardas which is good since the ribs are deep and you need long posts.

[JonMarsh]

The spacers are now drying and I will have to order more of the cork seal tape from McMaster. I should need around 6 rolls for the 46 spacers. I have to take an inventory of the hardware I have left from the Calliope and then order the remainder from McMaster. The shipping is pricey with McMaster so I want to get everything or close to in one order. I plan on ordering the ViaBlue absorbers for the base and plan on getting some granite pieces to put the Ardent D's on.

The spacers drying on the dining room table for the next few days:





After work ended I was able to get the 2 baffles sanded. The first photo shows some of the bumps, it was hard to capture, but my fingers felt it. I used 220 first and then went over the baffles with some 320. They are super smooth now The left baffle was not sanded yet, but the right one was. I sanded these on top of some left over xps foam to have some padding between the table and the baffles. I didn't want to take any chance of scratching or denting these baffles.

It’s this kind of detail work that makes a nice difference in the finished build!

:T

I’m really looking forward to seeing how the front panels look with finish on them!

[svenarajala]

It’s this kind of detail work that makes a nice difference in the finished build!

:T

I’m really looking forward to seeing how the front panels look with finish on them!

Me too! I plan on using the same finish I did for the Calliope with 3 layers of the Emtech. Speaking of which I need to probably order more primer and black from Emtech.

[svenarajala]

Yesterday I finished sanding all the bamboo pieces. I had to do some hand sanding on some areas of the floor mount and the edges of the tops and bottoms. I used 220 and then did another round with 320 grit paper.



After the sanding was completed I took out all the hardware I had left from the Calliope build and inventoried so I could figure out what I needed to get for assembling the Ardent D's. I thought I would be able to use the the left over 1 3/4" bolts that mount the baffle to the cabinet, but after talking with Steve and getting his valuable input I ordered a box of 2" bolts. The photo shows the 1 3/4 bolt screwed all the way down. The metal aluminum bar that is used to hold the baffle in is 5/16" thick which would have left around 1/4" of thread to screw in. The 2" bolt is definitely the way to go and if it is to long I can always use some washers to make the difference up.



I ordered the parts I needed from McMaster-Carr which should be here sometime next week. They didn't give you any shipping options. I did provide a table of all the parts I ordered to Steve that way if someone else builds a SMJ Ardent the BOM to assemble the cabinets has been started. As always a big thanks to Steve for the fast response times to my emails!

Next up is to start sanding the MDF ribs. I think my plan for these is to sand them all down and use 3 coats of primer sanded in-between the paint coats with 400 grit.

[Bear]

Yesterday I finished sanding all the bamboo pieces. I had to do some hand sanding on some areas of the floor mount and the edges of the tops and bottoms. I used 220 and then did another round with 320 grit paper.

Consider taking the bamboo to 400 - 800 grit. Somewhere in there, it can get an almost sculpted feel (burnished) that is what I've been targeting with my last few projects. The feel beneath the hand is what really distinguishes it from stuff like BB or maple plywood to me, and the wood does it without feeling like it's plastic. I've had a few pieces get to that level with just 320 grit, but a few discs of 400 generally push it over the edge. Then the trick is getting the finish correct to maintain it (wipe-on poly didn't work for my Helios build).

Maybe someone with more experience with maple ply has gotten to this level of tactile finish? I'd love to learn how to do it, if so.

[Steve Manning]

Consider taking the bamboo to 400 - 800 grit. Somewhere in there, it can get an almost sculpted feel (burnished) that is what I've been targeting with my last few projects. The feel beneath the hand is what really distinguishes it from stuff like BB or maple plywood to me, and the wood does it without feeling like it's plastic. I've had a few pieces get to that level with just 320 grit, but a few discs of 400 generally push it over the edge. Then the trick is getting the finish correct to maintain it (wipe-on poly didn't work for my Helios build).

Maybe someone with more experience with maple ply has gotten to this level of tactile finish? I'd love to learn how to do it, if so.

The man with the know is Ron ...... though I've good luck with spraying something similar to what Sven is using, though from ML Campbell, water borne lacquer. I lightly sand with 400 grit between coats. Once done I let it sit for a week or two and then lightly go over it with 3000 & 5000 grit pads just to knock any roughness off. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00LIXEWXO...roduct_details It leaves a nice smooth finish.

[svenarajala]

Consider taking the bamboo to 400 - 800 grit. Somewhere in there, it can get an almost sculpted feel (burnished) that is what I've been targeting with my last few projects. The feel beneath the hand is what really distinguishes it from stuff like BB or maple plywood to me, and the wood does it without feeling like it's plastic. I've had a few pieces get to that level with just 320 grit, but a few discs of 400 generally push it over the edge. Then the trick is getting the finish correct to maintain it (wipe-on poly didn't work for my Helios build).

Maybe someone with more experience with maple ply has gotten to this level of tactile finish? I'd love to learn how to do it, if so.

I have sand paper discs up to 600, then paper sheets of 1000, 1500, and 2000. Once I get all the ribs sanded I'm certainly open to revisiting the sanding of the bamboo. Suggestions like this to make it POP are appreciated. Steve did such a great job routing the baffles out. I need to make sure they represent properly. Thanks Bear!

[svenarajala]

The man with the know is Ron ...... though I've good luck with spraying something similar to what Sven is using, though from ML Campbell, water borne lacquer. I lightly sand with 400 grit between coats. Once done I let it sit for a week or two and then lightly go over it with 3000 & 5000 grit pads just to knock any roughness off. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00LIXEWXO...roduct_details It leaves a nice smooth finish.

What's kind of comical is I just checked my email and I have a coupon for free shipping from the place I order sand paper from. Could this be karma knocking, telling me to order more paper? :P I do probably need to order more 220 and 320 discs with all these MDF ribs. I did 6 ribs on one disk of 220 and 320 and I think that was good.

Thanks for the link Steve. I can add that to my list.

[svenarajala]

I would like to say now I know why McMaster-Carr charges so much for shipping, but I can't say for sure... The parts I ordered yesterday afternoon were just delivered. I'm pretty impressed since I placed that order so late in the afternoon and in less than 24 hours got all the parts.

[Steve Manning]

I would like to say now I know why McMaster-Carr charges so much for shipping, but I can't say for sure... The parts I ordered yesterday afternoon were just delivered. I'm pretty impressed since I placed that order so late in the afternoon and in less than 24 hours got all the parts.

Shipping everywhere is stupid. Though your right McMaster is faster than Amazon Prime!

[Bear]

I have sand paper discs up to 600, then paper sheets of 1000, 1500, and 2000. Once I get all the ribs sanded I'm certainly open to revisiting the sanding of the bamboo. Suggestions like this to make it POP are appreciated. Steve did such a great job routing the baffles out. I need to make sure they represent properly. Thanks Bear!

Mirka is expensive, but they should have up to 800 grit discs readily available at Rockler. I can get 400 grit in a 50 pack for Freud SandNet from my local HD. I have found that the red pigment in the SandNet discs can stain if you press too hard. Because of JonMarsh, I went straight to mesh discs, and I've never really used standard sheets with my random orbital sander. I got really frustrated with how quickly I used up discs with the Freud stuff, so I bought a pack of traditional paper discs. That resulted in an, "Oh! So that's how bad this could be!" moment. I still don't like how quickly they screen-out or lose grit, but I do now have a "the grass is even browner on the other side" perspective.

[svenarajala]

Mirka is expensive, but they should have up to 800 grit discs readily available at Rockler. I can get 400 grit in a 50 pack for Freud SandNet from my local HD. I have found that the red pigment in the SandNet discs can stain if you press too hard. Because of JonMarsh, I went straight to mesh discs, and I've never really used standard sheets with my random orbital sander. I got really frustrated with how quickly I used up discs with the Freud stuff, so I bought a pack of traditional paper discs. That resulted in an, "Oh! So that's how bad this could be!" moment. I still don't like how quickly they screen-out or lose grit, but I do now have a "the grass is even browner on the other side" perspective.

I have been ordering sandpaper from here since 2005 https://www.onlineindustrialsupply.com/# . Prices don't seem bad and with my limited experience I think it's good. I found a few areas I want to sand some more on the bamboo that I caught with some better lighting.

[svenarajala]

I have been making slow progress, but some is better than none!

To get an idea of how many ribs I need to sand, it's almost 8' tall



There are 5 different ribs that require sanding. The solid rib is the divider where the woofer and mid crossover will mount.



A look at what the sanded at 320 grit vs not sanded looks like



When it is to hot outside and I can't sand due to sweating and making the wood wet I'm work on the spacers putting the seal tape on





I had to add some more paint to these spacers that go between the ribs where the terminals are mounted. They expose a little more and I wanted to maker sure I had them painted for no white to show




I will continue sanding and doing the seals on the spacer. The plan is to paint end of August at this point when I get back from traveling. I'm hoping it will be cooler and less humid too.