Center Channel Stand it's different.....

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  • Renron
    Senior Member
    • Jan 2008
    • 749

    Center Channel Stand it's different.....

    While having an offline (email) conversation with the notorious troublemaker Steve Manning about woodworking, he came up with something unique which I had never built before. Intrigued by the challenge of doing something new and needing a stand for my giant Center channel speaker I came up with this crazy idea to make a bent wood stand.
    The layup is from 1/8" hardboard panel sourced from my local H.D. Box store. Glued with Joe Woodworkers veneer glue and roller method. I used a 14" Sonotube Cardboard Concrete Form as a jig. 4 ratchet straps were used to secure the panels during an overnight glue up process, ONE layer at a time.
    On a good day it 's like wrestling a wet pig in the mud, 3 hands are needed 4 are better, 5 would be just enough.
    I also used 1/2" Baltic Birch plywood and some "Sex Bolts" AKA hardware / furniture bolts to hold the top and bottom to the curve. There is no glue holding the pieces together, only the bolts. They are steel and seem to be plenty strong enough for the task.
    It is designed to angle the baffle upwards and point the tweeter at ear level at seating distance.

    It came out exactly as I had imagined it and it's weirder looking than I thought too. I LIKE IT! Enjoy the photos.
    Ron

    Click image for larger version

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    Ardent TS
  • Renron
    Senior Member
    • Jan 2008
    • 749

    #2
    Yes, I'm going to make you wait to see the finished stand.

    About a year ago I bought a Scroll saw because it was on Craigslist for ~$50 I got a good deal, I thought.
    I had to rebuild a magnetic sensor wheel from scratch, took me a year to get it right. But man is this thing great for cutting circles and corners. Smooth and quick, almost doesn't need any sanding when finished. Slick as snot.
    I digress.......

    I finished all 4 layers of hardboard layup and tested the angle I wanted, then cut / trimmed it on the table saw. That was kinda spooky because the semi circle rolls thru the blade rather than slides / pushes thru the blade. Meh, whatever, still got all my fingers. :T

    Here is a photo of my scroll saw deal and a test fit of the panels.

    Click image for larger version

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    Click image for larger version

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    Ardent TS

    Comment

    • Renron
      Senior Member
      • Jan 2008
      • 749

      #3
      So far so good. I love it when a plan comes together............ Bum bum bum buum, da da da dum (theme from The A Team)

      Here's a picture once the corners are rounded off. Makes it look like something worth keeping, almost. Not quite yet. I added a stop support on the back to keep the speaker from sliding backwards due to the tilt of the stand. Looks about right........

      Click image for larger version

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      Ardent TS

      Comment

      • Renron
        Senior Member
        • Jan 2008
        • 749

        #4
        And it just wouldn't be finished if it wasn't Black. Gotta keep E.T. happy you know.
        So, it's now dried because I used a semi gloss water base paint (4 coats sanded in between coats) with 2 light undercoats of thinned 50/50 dewaxed shellac and denatured alcohol. You have to dilute the coats under water based paint or you could end up with crazing / fractures later when the paint finishes curing. A lesson I learned the hard way.
        Well without any further Adieu................. Ta Da! The strangest, yet somehow very cool looking Center Channel Stand.

        To give you an idea of the size of that thing, those are Dayton RS225s on the ends, 8" woofers, Rockin' center channel. Jon Wick sounds REAL!!
        Ron

        Click image for larger version

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        Ardent TS

        Comment

        • Renron
          Senior Member
          • Jan 2008
          • 749

          #5
          In case anyone cares here are the bolts I used. Some modifications were needed. As always on a custom project.
          I had to grind the top diameter smaller, down to fit in a 5/8" pocket recess so they would fit flush on the top.
          I needed to cut both the male threads and the female threaded shaft to fit tightly together. But that was relatively easy.
          4 bolts on top / 4 bolts on the bottom. No glue needed, these are steel not aluminum fasteners.
          Ron

          Click image for larger version

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          Ardent TS

          Comment

          • BobEllis
            Super Senior Member
            • Dec 2005
            • 1609

            #6
            Really cool, Ron.

            Comment

            • Steve Manning
              Moderator
              • Dec 2006
              • 1879

              #7
              ET will be most pleased ..... As always Ron, nice job on the finish.
              Hold on to your butts - It's about to get Musical!



              WEBSITE: http://www.smjaudio.com/

              Comment

              • dar47
                Senior Member
                • Nov 2008
                • 873

                #8
                Okay, Ron did you do the math on that tilt our just wing it, HaHa.

                Sometimes low key is best, love your implementation and great finish as usual. I love big centers you get all that chest registry when the bullets are flying.:T

                Comment

                • Mr.Ed
                  Member
                  • Apr 2012
                  • 55

                  #9
                  I'm not usually real big on a contemporary look but I like it.
                  Out of curiosity, is there any spring to it or is it pretty solid?

                  Comment

                  • scottvalentin
                    Senior Member
                    • May 2015
                    • 175

                    #10
                    Looks great Ron, nicely done!

                    Comment

                    • wkhanna
                      Grumpy Old Super Moderator Emeritus
                      • Jan 2006
                      • 5673

                      #11
                      i love it!
                      _


                      Bill

                      Practicing Curmudgeon & Audio Snob
                      ....just an "ON" switch, Please!

                      FinleyAudio

                      Comment

                      • Browncoat
                        Senior Member
                        • Oct 2016
                        • 130

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Renron
                        It came out exactly as I had imagined it and it's weirder looking than I thought too.
                        Doesn't look weird at all to me--I think it looks cool. Did it relax much after you pulled it off the form, or did it hold its shape well?

                        Comment

                        • Navy Guy
                          Member
                          • Oct 2014
                          • 55

                          #13
                          Looks great!
                          www.pursuitofperfectsound.com

                          Comment

                          • Renron
                            Senior Member
                            • Jan 2008
                            • 749

                            #14
                            Wow, I'm delighted by all the positive comments, Thanks guys!

                            Steve, Thanks for the emails back and forth. Kept me interested in completing the project. :^x

                            BrownCoat, After taking off the nylon ratchet straps it had a VERY slight spring back, maybe 1/2" diameter on the first layup (2 hardboard panels) after that no spring back. It's important to keep the edges // (parallel) when gluing so there is a straight line reference when cutting it on the table saw. I forgot to mention it earlier but I think it's important, I sanded the smooth (face) of the #2 &# 3 hardboard with 120 grit before glue up. And the last outside panel (back) was reversed so I would have smooth on the inside and outside of the circle.

                            Mr. Ed, Much to my surprise when I tried an Isometric exercise with it, (I tried to push the ends together like you'd play an accordion) it wouldn't budge. I'm pretty strong for an old guy but it didn't move at all. When assembled and the speaker is on the stand it bounces if pushed. Looks like a coil spring patio chair. It's very sturdy thou, no worries.

                            Dar47, As much as I hate to admit it, yes, I did the math. Sorta. I put the CC on boxes to get the correct height and used a string from tweeter to ear level at sitting distance.
                            I measured the angle to be ~7*. I used this # for the rough build, make the top piece 5" larger front to back. Assembled it and placed the speaker on it to find it's balance point (fulcrum) with the angle I wanted. Cut the top and mounted the stop in the back. So, um, yeah more or less, I measured it, sort of. Kinda. I'm very happy with it.
                            Ardent TS

                            Comment

                            • Steve Manning
                              Moderator
                              • Dec 2006
                              • 1879

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Renron
                              Wow, I'm delighted by all the positive comments, Thanks guys!

                              Steve, Thanks for the emails back and forth. Kept me interested in completing the project. :^x

                              BrownCoat, After taking off the nylon ratchet straps it had a VERY slight spring back, maybe 1/2" diameter on the first layup (2 hardboard panels) after that no spring back. It's important to keep the edges // (parallel) when gluing so there is a straight line reference when cutting it on the table saw. I forgot to mention it earlier but I think it's important, I sanded the smooth (face) of the #2 &# 3 hardboard with 120 grit before glue up. And the last outside panel (back) was reversed so I would have smooth on the inside and outside of the circle.

                              Mr. Ed, Much to my surprise when I tried an Isometric exercise with it, (I tried to push the ends together like you'd play an accordion) it wouldn't budge. I'm pretty strong for an old guy but it didn't move at all. When assembled and the speaker is on the stand it bounces if pushed. Looks like a coil spring patio chair. It's very sturdy thou, no worries.

                              Dar47, As much as I hate to admit it, yes, I did the math. Sorta. I put the CC on boxes to get the correct height and used a string from tweeter to ear level at sitting distance.
                              I measured the angle to be ~7*. I used this # for the rough build, make the top piece 5" larger front to back. Assembled it and placed the speaker on it to find it's balance point (fulcrum) with the angle I wanted. Cut the top and mounted the stop in the back. So, um, yeah more or less, I measured it, sort of. Kinda. I'm very happy with it.
                              Your most certainly welcome ...... any time I can contribute to a little mischief. I think I might have come to terms with some fasteners for my project after one of your emails. Always good to share.
                              Hold on to your butts - It's about to get Musical!



                              WEBSITE: http://www.smjaudio.com/

                              Comment

                              • TEK
                                Super Senior Member
                                • Oct 2002
                                • 1670

                                #16
                                Really nice stand Ron!
                                Bending wood now - you are becoming a wood master I must say :-)
                                -TEK


                                Many of the great achievements of the world were accomplished by tired and discouraged men who kept on working...

                                Comment

                                • ---k---
                                  Ultra Senior Member
                                  • Nov 2005
                                  • 5202

                                  #17
                                  Very nice. My wife would approve of that in our house.

                                  I had questions about the spring and bounce too. I think you answered those. Any concern with the wood creep in the future. Either springing more open or closed?
                                  - Ryan

                                  CJD Ochocinco! ND140/BC25SC06 MTM & TM
                                  CJD Khanspires - A Dayton RS28/RS150/RS225 WMTMW
                                  CJD Khancenter - A Dayton RS28/RS150/RS180 WTMW Center

                                  Comment

                                  • Renron
                                    Senior Member
                                    • Jan 2008
                                    • 749

                                    #18
                                    Ryan,
                                    Creep / Sag? Meh, I'm marginally concerned. Only time will tell. I've never used hardboard as a laminate before. I've bent 3/4" oak and 1/8" plywood previously but it's not been structural like this is. If it does creep I will put a threaded rod behind the curve to limit the "sag". I'm not worried about the curve collapsing thou. Ryan, you got me thinking I should take some measurements just to have a base for later comparisons.
                                    Just don't put that huge subwoofer of yours on it and I think it will be fine. IF, I were to build it again (and I'm not), I would use 5 layers instead of 4. Overkill for sure, but I like overkill.
                                    What do you think Steve?
                                    Ron

                                    Edit: I took some measurements; The CC weighs in at a svelte 55 Lbs. the stand measures 15 1/4" both loaded and unloaded in the front, 13 1/2" unloaded and 13 1/4" loaded.
                                    Balanced pretty well I think. It's a damn strong stand.
                                    Ardent TS

                                    Comment

                                    • Jim Holtz
                                      Ultra Senior Member
                                      • Mar 2005
                                      • 3223

                                      #19
                                      Hi Ron,

                                      I like your stand. Very well done! :T

                                      The center looks close to the Finalist center in design. What are the mids and tweeter?

                                      Jim

                                      Comment

                                      • Steve Manning
                                        Moderator
                                        • Dec 2006
                                        • 1879

                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by Renron
                                        Ryan,
                                        Creep / Sag? Meh, I'm marginally concerned. Only time will tell. I've never used hardboard as a laminate before. I've bent 3/4" oak and 1/8" plywood previously but it's not been structural like this is. If it does creep I will put a threaded rod behind the curve to limit the "sag". I'm not worried about the curve collapsing thou. Ryan, you got me thinking I should take some measurements just to have a base for later comparisons.
                                        Just don't put that huge subwoofer of yours on it and I think it will be fine. IF, I were to build it again (and I'm not), I would use 5 layers instead of 4. Overkill for sure, but I like overkill.
                                        What do you think Steve?
                                        Ron

                                        Edit: I took some measurements; The CC weighs in at a svelte 55 Lbs. the stand measures 15 1/4" both loaded and unloaded in the front, 13 1/2" unloaded and 13 1/4" loaded.
                                        Balanced pretty well I think. It's a damn strong stand.
                                        Hey Ryan ..... I've done something similar to what Ron has done with the lamination's, what he was referring earlier. I'd be rather surprised to see this sag at all. By the time you get to 4 layers it's incredibly strong. If you added another layer or two you could park a small car on it. Ron, did you use the 3/16" thick stuff like mine, or was yours 1/8"? That could affect things some.
                                        Hold on to your butts - It's about to get Musical!



                                        WEBSITE: http://www.smjaudio.com/

                                        Comment

                                        • Wayman
                                          Member
                                          • May 2014
                                          • 89

                                          #21
                                          Nice Ron!

                                          Simple, clean & elegant. Love a design that hides all the planning & work that goes into it. Like great writing.

                                          Cheers, Wayne

                                          Comment

                                          • ---k---
                                            Ultra Senior Member
                                            • Nov 2005
                                            • 5202

                                            #22
                                            Originally posted by Steve Manning
                                            Hey Ryan ..... I've done something similar to what Ron has done with the lamination's, what he was referring earlier. I'd be rather surprised to see this sag at all. By the time you get to 4 layers it's incredibly strong. If you added another layer or two you could park a small car on it. Ron, did you use the 3/16" thick stuff like mine, or was yours 1/8"? That could affect things some.

                                            Good to know. I have no doubt about its strength. I'm uneducated in the ways of bent ply, so I was more curious about the wood creeping over time - either sagging more or maybe trying o go back to the original shape. How old is yours and any issues? Maybe there is so little load that creep takes a lot longer than the life piece. Maybe the ply construction creeps less than wood. I just like to know everything.
                                            - Ryan

                                            CJD Ochocinco! ND140/BC25SC06 MTM & TM
                                            CJD Khanspires - A Dayton RS28/RS150/RS225 WMTMW
                                            CJD Khancenter - A Dayton RS28/RS150/RS180 WTMW Center

                                            Comment

                                            • Steve Manning
                                              Moderator
                                              • Dec 2006
                                              • 1879

                                              #23
                                              Originally posted by ---k---
                                              Good to know. I have no doubt about its strength. I'm uneducated in the ways of bent ply, so I was more curious about the wood creeping over time - either sagging more or maybe trying o go back to the original shape. How old is yours and any issues? Maybe there is so little load that creep takes a lot longer than the life piece. Maybe the ply construction creeps less than wood. I just like to know everything.
                                              Mine is not much older than Ron's actually, so I don't have a feel yet for the long term of it at this point. I'm also a noob in terms of bentwood lamination's, though it's a process done all over the place, so it's pretty well understood.

                                              I think compared to mine, Ron's stand will be the more susceptible to any potential sagging. What do you say Ron ..... quarterly measurements to see how it holds up?
                                              Hold on to your butts - It's about to get Musical!



                                              WEBSITE: http://www.smjaudio.com/

                                              Comment

                                              • Renron
                                                Senior Member
                                                • Jan 2008
                                                • 749

                                                #24
                                                Jim,
                                                Glad you like and approve of the stand. You have a keen eye, it's a direct build out with slightly different parts. 2 Dayton RS225, 2 Tang Band W4-1337sdf (not the neo magnet), Dayton RS28F
                                                All drivers were on sale when I purchased them, although at different times. I buy them on sale and wait until I have all the parts to start a build. I'm frugal and honestly, I probably can't hear that last 5% anyway. (Difference between the W4 Neo magnet and the RS "A")
                                                The RS225 were ~$50 each, the W4-1337 were ~$25 each and the RS25F was ~$50 also. I used a modified version of the XOs in a sealed Box.
                                                It sounds Sooooo good. Here is a link to the build.
                                                DIY (Do it yourself): Cabinetry, speakers, subwoofers, crossovers, measurements. Jon and Thomas have probably designed and built as many speakers as any non-professionals. Who are we kidding? They are pros, they just don't do it for a living. This has got to be one of the most advanced places on the net to talk speaker building, period.


                                                Concerning wood to wood creep or slippage over time caused by stress I negated this as much as I could, considering the temperatures in my garage at the time were rather low. I used Veneer glue because it dries harder than Titebond glues. I would have preferred to use WeldWood Plastic Resin glue but it wasn't warm enough.

                                                Troublemaker,
                                                I'll measure for sag in the upcoming months and report back with my findings. I do expect maybe 1/2" over it's lifetime, that's acceptable to me.
                                                Ron
                                                Last edited by theSven; 30 April 2023, 15:46 Sunday. Reason: Update htguide url
                                                Ardent TS

                                                Comment

                                                • Steve Manning
                                                  Moderator
                                                  • Dec 2006
                                                  • 1879

                                                  #25
                                                  Originally posted by Renron
                                                  Jim,
                                                  Glad you like and approve of the stand. You have a keen eye, it's a direct build out with slightly different parts. 2 Dayton RS225, 2 Tang Band W4-1337sdf (not the neo magnet), Dayton RS28F
                                                  All drivers were on sale when I purchased them, although at different times. I buy them on sale and wait until I have all the parts to start a build. I'm frugal and honestly, I probably can't hear that last 5% anyway. (Difference between the W4 Neo magnet and the RS "A")
                                                  The RS225 were ~$50 each, the W4-1337 were ~$25 each and the RS25F was ~$50 also. I used a modified version of the XOs in a sealed Box.
                                                  It sounds Sooooo good. Here is a link to the build.
                                                  DIY (Do it yourself): Cabinetry, speakers, subwoofers, crossovers, measurements. Jon and Thomas have probably designed and built as many speakers as any non-professionals. Who are we kidding? They are pros, they just don't do it for a living. This has got to be one of the most advanced places on the net to talk speaker building, period.


                                                  Concerning wood to wood creep or slippage over time caused by stress I negated this as much as I could, considering the temperatures in my garage at the time were rather low. I used Veneer glue because it dries harder than Titebond glues. I would have preferred to use WeldWood Plastic Resin glue but it wasn't warm enough.

                                                  Troublemaker,
                                                  I'll measure for sag in the upcoming months and report back with my findings. I do expect maybe 1/2" over it's lifetime, that's acceptable to me.
                                                  Ron
                                                  Who, Me? :B
                                                  Last edited by theSven; 30 April 2023, 15:45 Sunday. Reason: Update htguide url
                                                  Hold on to your butts - It's about to get Musical!



                                                  WEBSITE: http://www.smjaudio.com/

                                                  Comment

                                                  • Jim Holtz
                                                    Ultra Senior Member
                                                    • Mar 2005
                                                    • 3223

                                                    #26
                                                    Originally posted by Renron
                                                    Jim,
                                                    Glad you like and approve of the stand. You have a keen eye, it's a direct build out with slightly different parts. 2 Dayton RS225, 2 Tang Band W4-1337sdf (not the neo magnet), Dayton RS28F
                                                    All drivers were on sale when I purchased them, although at different times. I buy them on sale and wait until I have all the parts to start a build. I'm frugal and honestly, I probably can't hear that last 5% anyway. (Difference between the W4 Neo magnet and the RS "A")
                                                    The RS225 were ~$50 each, the W4-1337 were ~$25 each and the RS25F was ~$50 also. I used a modified version of the XOs in a sealed Box.
                                                    It sounds Sooooo good. Here is a link to the build.
                                                    DIY (Do it yourself): Cabinetry, speakers, subwoofers, crossovers, measurements. Jon and Thomas have probably designed and built as many speakers as any non-professionals. Who are we kidding? They are pros, they just don't do it for a living. This has got to be one of the most advanced places on the net to talk speaker building, period.


                                                    Ron
                                                    LOL! This is what happens when you get old like me. I forget. 8O I went through the thread and saw that I had posted in it. (sigh) Anyway. a very nice center channel speaker and a very cool stand.

                                                    Jim
                                                    Last edited by theSven; 30 April 2023, 15:45 Sunday. Reason: Update htguide url

                                                    Comment

                                                    • Renron
                                                      Senior Member
                                                      • Jan 2008
                                                      • 749

                                                      #27
                                                      Originally posted by Steve Manning
                                                      Who, Me? :B
                                                      If you have to ask................

                                                      Jim,
                                                      Your not alone in those regards buddy, I do it all the time. One reason I don't lie, I simply can't remember that long!
                                                      I love Walter.
                                                      Ron
                                                      Ardent TS

                                                      Comment

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