Minerva Monitor: "Patience my ass, I'm going to go build something!"

[dar47]

That stuff is like making a big gooey cheese melt, 8O

Great start Steve and looks like your alignments are working out perfect which would be far more worrisome then scraping a little glue.:T

[Steve Manning]

That stuff is like making a big gooey cheese melt, 8O

Great start Steve and looks like your alignments are working out perfect which would be far more worrisome then scraping a little glue.:T

Yep, the first part of the process this afternoon was cutting dowels to length to make sure of that alignment ..... still you always wonder if you got the drawing right for those hole locations!! 8O

[Steve Manning]

we have not seen progress like this since....

...well...since Jon had a life outside of work.....:W

Jon have a life outside of work ...... :rofl: Of course for me I have time because I'm out of work ..... I think those must be connected somewhere.

[TEK]

That might have something to do with it ;-)
Hope you get that sorted out, or not - if you are retiered. If so just enjoy :-)

I guess Jon is going to retire from work at some point... Hmm, wonder what will happend with the stack of started and possible new projects if that happens opcorn:

[5th element]

Very nice job again Steve, especially on the bending of the aluminium. I'm always surprised at how much aluminium can cost vs oter materials and a sheet of the thickness used here would be seriously extensive.

[JonMarsh]

Jon have a life outside of work ...... :rofl: Of course for me I have time because I'm out of work ..... I think those must be connected somewhere.

There is an unfortunate symmetry to our situations... I have too much of a good thing, and Steve too little. Maybe that's why we've become partners in crime (though I still remember the "minion" picture Steve posted a while back... )

I've got some pics to post, but between taking care of work and the estate, have been pretty busy. Besides, it's so low tech compared to all this CNC stuff and Translam construction- of course, I can beg off, saying it's just for a 2nd level acoustic prototype.

Oh, and my Mule 5 string bass arrived yesterday... Yes, I unpacked it, tuned it, marveled at the build quality and nice neck and playability, and started to wonder where I'd stashed the instrument cables, even checked to see if my Marshall was plugged in to AC power, but then I remembered 3 other important things I needed to do first, and then I got some more emails from work, which I was finishing up the last of answers this morning at Starbucks, minutes ago... Somewhere in all that I fed and walked the dog in the evening, then took myself out to pizza at Melos, a local Italian place.

And looking at my to-do's for today, I doubt I'll get back to that bass guitar today...

[Steve Manning]

Oh, and my Mule 5 string bass arrived yesterday... Yes, I unpacked it, tuned it, marveled at the build quality and nice neck and playability, and started to wonder where I'd stashed the instrument cables, even checked to see if my Marshall was plugged in to AC power, but then I remembered 3 other important things I needed to do first, and then I got some more emails from work, which I was finishing up the last of answers this morning at Starbucks, minutes ago... Somewhere in all that I fed and walked the dog in the evening, then took myself out to pizza at Melos, a local Italian place.

And looking at my to-do's for today, I doubt I'll get back to that bass guitar today...

Chasing them butterflies again are we .....

[Steve Manning]

That might have something to do with it ;-)
Hope you get that sorted out, or not - if you are retiered. If so just enjoy :-)

I guess Jon is going to retire from work at some point... Hmm, wonder what will happend with the stack of started and possible new projects if that happens opcorn:

As much as I would love to be retired, I'm looking at another good decade before that can happen. Ah well, it is what it is.

[Steve Manning]

Very nice job again Steve, especially on the bending of the aluminium. I'm always surprised at how much aluminium can cost vs oter materials and a sheet of the thickness used here would be seriously extensive.

Thanks 5th .... your right, my original thought was thought was to go with solid sheet aluminum, material alone was going to be over $1100. Then add to that machining costs and it was an obvious not gonna happen. I came up with the idea of the 1/4" square stock and bending idea. Material was under a $100 and welding is going to ~$65 and as always you never count your own labor so it became doable. It was either that or a contrasting hardwood of some sort.

[JonMarsh]

well, as I've been a good boy and got up EXTRA early today to start back at work (emails) I'm taking a small break now to post a backlog of pictures before my next conference call at 10...

Ah, this is all so horribly old school, my apologies, but it's the only way to get the second level acoustical prototypes put together! (at least out here!)

This picks up from finishing up some of the piece parts, such as the work on the front panels previously shown. Now, I've actually got to finish up the last bits for the front panels, which is routing a locating rebate in the back side of the front panel for the front to rear compartment brace to fit in (separating the midrange and woofer compartments).





Then the next steps were cutting biscuit slots for aligning the gluing operations of the various pieces- trusty DeWalt biscuit jointer gets the job done, with dust collection by DeWalt too. (there seems to be a pattern there, regarding DeWalt and I)



Impromptu panel support and alignment...



Now the real fun begins, gluing up the first three pieces, a bottom, side panel, and front. Should have started with the top panel, ideally, as any misalignment is more visible with it. The black side piece is BB ply with phenolic veneer for tooling- had it around, didn't want to order more. It's the inner side, actually, an outer panel of LBL will cover it.



Next up is the center divider baffle gluing.



Followed by another side panel



After that, the back panel- only single thickness LBL, as the midrange doesn't put much pressure on it, and the bass section is mostly a hole for the PR, with very short LBL spans.




Then the top panel...



Now doesn't this just look like a slightly over grown mini-monitor from the front?

[Steve Manning]

Nice progress Jon ..... I like the setup in the new shop with the workbench. I think you have the same biscuit joiner that I have, love that thing.

[ergo]

Ah, this is all so horribly old school, my apologies, but it's the only way to get the second level acoustical prototypes put together! (at least out here!)

Jon, you have wonderful high quality tools and great progress with those. CNC will maybe cut stuff out fast, but these type of one off projects probably end up taking longer than it would take with the simpler 'old school tech'.

DeWalt is one of the brands thats common and available on EU side as well and I like those too a lot. I was also thinking of getting the DeWalt biscuit joiner at some point last year - seemed a great tool based on some youtube videos. But then I decided to go for a noname brand for now as I have not used that technique before and wanted to get a feel of it first and see how often I would use it.

Seems that on US side the clamps with those wide rectangular end pieces are more common/available. Most I see in our shops are the small round touch point type.... I think these are probably better for this kind of job... need to find a source for such over here too.

[IslandHydro]

well, this has been a very productive Sunday, on NECESSARY, not FUN productive things.

<snip>

Oh, and yes, that is a bamboo desk, actually one of those motorized sit/stand models. I love it... good tools will always serve you well!

Since were on the subject of sit/stand desks, here's my version (manual) that I recently finished. It comes complete with a built in speaker system (so it's legit to post here):

Desk in the “up position” from the front:


Desk in the up position from the back, note the 45 lbs of counter weight:


Down position from the front:


Lifting column showing the electric latch, button release for latches is to the right of the mouse, on the side rail. Right channel speakers are on the vertical panel:


The speakers are Dayton Audio ND65-4, and a pair of really cheap 'aimable' piezo tweeters. Subwoofer sits behind the desk. This really became something of a challenge for me to see if I could make it work, not sure I’d do it again. Woodworking is a bit rough but functional.

[JonMarsh]

Pretty slick for home brew- did you come up with the design?

[IslandHydro]

Thanks, Yeah I designed it from scratch. It was a somewhat iterative process as I didn't realize how heavy my monitors were, but in the end it all works fine.

[sfdoddsy]

It's usually about this stage of a build (although in this particular case it came about 6 pages ago) that I thank my lucky stars I am a fan of open baffles.

[JonMarsh]

Yes, some aspects of the construction work are MUCH simpler! :W

[Steve Manning]

It's usually about this stage of a build (although in this particular case it came about 6 pages ago) that I thank my lucky stars I am a fan of open baffles.

I think you might be right about that ...... already running to Woodcraft for more glue. :E

[CraigJ]

It's usually about this stage of a build (although in this particular case it came about 6 pages ago) that I thank my lucky stars I am a fan of open baffles.

That's pretty funny as my new dipole project is just hanging from 6 feet of 1 1/2" PVC

I'm extremely impressed with Steve's ability to keep the layers aligned after glue up. As I mentioned earlier, I've used this glue in laminated 3 layers of 3 mil BB for kite boards, and the glue is very slippery. Did I mentioned that is is even more messy and doesn't come out of clothes, or easily off tools, gets on your hands and hair.....;x(

Craig

[JonMarsh]

That's pretty funny as my new dipole project is just hanging from 6 feet of 1 1/2" PVC

I'm extremely impressed with Steve's ability to keep the layers aligned after glue up. As I mentioned earlier, I've used this glue in laminated 3 layers of 3 mil BB for kite boards, and the glue is very slippery. Did I mentioned that is is even more messy and doesn't come out of clothes, or easily off tools, gets on your hands and hair.....;x(

Craig

The dowels are the secret and the key...

On the other hand, all those points you brought up make me hope that Steve knows what he's gotten himself into here... I was thinking about that while I was epoxying up my acoustical prototype (there's a second one still to do, and the side panels aren't done on this one. )

And I'm not even using the West Epoxy yet, just some of my favorite tube stuff available from Amazon or Ace Hardware.

[Steve Manning]

That's pretty funny as my new dipole project is just hanging from 6 feet of 1 1/2" PVC

I'm extremely impressed with Steve's ability to keep the layers aligned after glue up. As I mentioned earlier, I've used this glue in laminated 3 layers of 3 mil BB for kite boards, and the glue is very slippery. Did I mentioned that is is even more messy and doesn't come out of clothes, or easily off tools, gets on your hands and hair.....;x(

Craig

Thanks Craig ..... As Jon noted, the dowels are the trick. I think this could be done with screws, but you would have to fit every piece together, screw them together, disassemble, glue and then put it all back together. Even more work than it already is.

I have found though that mineral spirits cleans this stuff off when it's still wet, at least for tools, I would imagine clothes could be a problem as you stated.

[Steve Manning]

The dowels are the secret and the key...

On the other hand, all those points you brought up make me hope that Steve knows what he's gotten himself into here... I was thinking about that while I was epoxying up my acoustical prototype (there's a second one still to do, and the side panels aren't done on this one. )

And I'm not even using the West Epoxy yet, just some of my favorite tube stuff available from Amazon or Ace Hardware.

Steve is starting to get flash backs from his last translam project ..... and that was only one set, not two. I just got back from Woodcraft and found they were out of the glue, so had to order a 6 pack from Amazon. This is soooo much gluing ...... I'm just glad I did not have to cut all the parts as well. :E

[JonMarsh]

Can you imagine doing it the hard way and hand cutting them with a router and a template or two? :E :E :E :evil:

[Steve Manning]

Can you imagine doing it the hard way and hand cutting them with a router and a template or two? :E :E :E :evil:

That's exactly what I did with my Modula's ...... it took a long, long time! http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthr...ghlight=magico

[JonMarsh]

I should have put a winky in that last post I made... because I know! It was sort of a leading comment, you might say... imaging doing an even bigger speaker that way just beggars the imagination, for me. Which is why I never tried a translam construction in the past.

Money is in the bank, should be ordering the 8 channel scope on Monday. A lot of things are up in the air at work, like the lab move, which was scheduled for next month, but is now postponed indefinitely. The macro economic environment has spooked management a bit. Tomorrow I'm getting my other assembly microscope out of storage, to take to work next week. And more cables for the test setup came in today- just two orders still pending delivery! Things are coming together...

I was hoping to cut side panels for the cabinets here, late this afternoon, but it's been drizzling all afternoon, and I have to use my larger saw, which is under a tarp outside.

[5th element]

I think lots of us have been there and done that! Well at least once and then we try and find ways of achieving the same result with less effort. :rofl:

[Steve Manning]

I should have put a winky in that last post I made... because I know! It was sort of a leading comment, you might say... imaging doing an even bigger speaker that way just beggars the imagination, for me. Which is why I never tried a translam construction in the past.

You mean something in this size category ......

[dar47]

Haha, They have no idea of the power of the dark side Steve.:rofl:

[Steve Manning]

Haha, They have no idea of the power of the dark side Steve.:rofl:

I believe the way to the dark side is covered with lots of glue ..... :B

[Steve Manning]

Small update ..... got the stand tops and bottoms (crossover compartments) glued up. Even with the alignment pretty good, as hard as this lbl is, sanding is still going to be a bit of a chore ....... 8O

[JonMarsh]

Nice looking pieces...

In theory, this stuff is about 30% harder than red oak, to put it in perspective.

I'm almost through with work stuff for today, hope to be by 1:30, then may go out and make a little saw dust...

[bobyoungren]

With the mix of end grain and face grain it is really hard. A sharp card scraper would probably help get the edges smooth. Once I learned how to get a good sharp bur on a scraper it really cut down on the use sand paper in my shop.

[Steve Manning]

With the mix of end grain and face grain it is really hard. A sharp card scraper would probably help get the edges smooth. Once I learned how to get a good sharp bur on a scraper it really cut down on the use sand paper in my shop.

Your right about that, I have already been putting mine to use, as well as this, http://www.woodcraft.com/product/142...t-scraper.aspx. It works really well for getting into tight areas.

[benthe8track]

Wow lots of awesome stuff in this thread. I love the processes and materials used in this project too. CNC is the way to go

[Steve Manning]

Had a not so good start to the day ...... turned on the compressor and soon there after was greeted with a bang and some plastic bits ......

A little disassembly revealed what I expected .......




A new fan is on order .... After that minor detour, I got on with what I had planned for the day, sanding, gluing, clamping, repeat ...... Today the stands vertical section was on tap.







This should be interesting getting the squeeze out cleaned out. The tunnel needs to be open for cabling to run through.

[JonMarsh]

The old fashioned way...

Yeah, that does pose a bit of an issue? How tough is the bubbled glue once it's set? That stuff looks pretty vile and foamy, I have to say. That's why I chickened out....




Last time I was working I'd cut and glued on one of the side panels, but no pics. So, this being the internet, it didn't really happen. But today I trimmed the panel that wasn't glued, first with a 5" battery powered circular saw (Craftsman, saw was cheap, battery and charger not so cheap, but it all worked remarkably well) then went around the edge of the side panel with what looks like an overgrown laminate bit (overgrown, as in 1/2" shaft and about 1" diameter follower bearing)





When you see the back with the "outside" side on, then it all starts to make a bit more sense. (this was the original plan before Steve and I cooked up the new build he's working on).



This is only step one of trimming the side panel...



Next up, the 15 degree bevel; bit!





Now it's flipped over and ready to glue on the other side panel...

[TEK]

Jon, what is it in that is on the side panel here?
Is it a metal sheet?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/98266298@N05/25183275755/

[CraigJ]

Jon, what is it in that is on the side panel here?
Is it a metal sheet?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/98266298@N05/25183275755/

From one of Jon's prior posts; "The black side piece is BB ply with phenolic veneer for tooling- had it around, didn't want to order more. It's the inner side, actually, an outer panel of LBL will cover it."

More importantly, what the heck is this:https://www.flickr.com/photos/982662...n/photostream/ ? 8O

Fun build thread and I'm enjoying your new workshop. Oh, it's also good to see some sawdust laying around as it looks more like my "shop".

Cj

[JonMarsh]

That's a concept Steve Manning came up with for a Wilsonesque repackaged version of the Ardent, but also using dual PR's, one for each SW223BD02, as with the Minerva, which only has one SW223BD02, and one SS 10" PR.

I'll post the front and back views later today- it's a bit tricky to get links from Flickr on an iOS device. I'm on my iPad Pro at Starbucks right now.

[Steve Manning]

From one of Jon's prior posts; "The black side piece is BB ply with phenolic veneer for tooling- had it around, didn't want to order more. It's the inner side, actually, an outer panel of LBL will cover it."

More importantly, what the heck is this:https://www.flickr.com/photos/982662...n/photostream/ ? 8O

Fun build thread and I'm enjoying your new workshop. Oh, it's also good to see some sawdust laying around as it looks more like my "shop".

Cj

Hey Craig ....... That is what I've called at this point, the Ardent - S, (the S is for Sasha, I like some of the Wilson aesthetics). It's on the back burner at the moment until I get back to work to be able to fund it. I was playing around with Unibox looking at giving the Ardent a little more low end and asked Jon his thought's. It of course fit into his "more is better" philosophy and he had already been thinking of the driver combo's anyway.

So I have a cabinet design pretty much ready to go, just waiting on funds to pull the trigger.

[Steve Manning]

Looks like you had a productive day Jon ..... To answer your question, this glue will be pretty easy to remove in comparison to epoxy.

[JonMarsh]

Views as promised:






For those who like the Wilson esthetics, these could be pretty killer...
Steve did a very nice job on the cabinet design, IMO.

Of course, you'll have to have the right skills and tools, or be able to sweet talk Steve into helping you!

[JonMarsh]

Looks like you had a productive day Jon ..... To answer your question, this glue will be pretty easy to remove in comparison to epoxy.

Fortunately I'm pretty good at containing where the epoxy goes!

BTW, these cabinets are SUPER stiff- tap on the walls, the resonant frequency is WAY above the passband of the drivers, especially of the woofer. I mean, we're talking several kHz. Probably be a good idea to put some damping pads on the midrange enclosure, or at least, it couldn't hurt. The woofer space, I think I'll just line with the owens corning 2" fiberglass board, I think. I ordered a couple of boxes of that which I never got around to building acoustic panels with!

[TEK]

Views as promised:






For those who like the Wilson esthetics, these could be pretty killer...
Steve did a very nice job on the cabinet design, IMO.

Of course, you'll have to have the right skills and tools, or be able to sweet talk Steve into helping you!

Hmm, that socket isn't Wilson design, is it?
Seems familiar. A bit B&W 802 and something else in there?

[Steve Manning]

This is where I see the finished design .......