Statement project begins

[bostonmurf]

thanks Kevin. vacation day tomorrow so i hope to get the fronts glued on this weekend and sanded. first listen on sunday all being well, fingers crossed as ive totally over hyped these in my head now so im hoping they sound as good as everyone says. im sure they will. its cost a bit more than id planned but i have enough materials left to make the cabinets for the monitors/surrounds and the center channel. plus ive got a nice selection of tools now.

[kevinm]

Sounds like an excellent weekend ahead. The suspense must be killing you!

My tool selection has grown immensely since I started DIY speakers - its awesome!

[bostonmurf]

haha! it is killing me, on your first listen for the statements was it everything you'd hoped it would be? i know they need about 20 hours to settle in. also how are your new cabinets coming along?

[kevinm]

I have to admit, I wasn't blown away. BUT, (and this is a HUGE but), I got them up and running 15 mins before company arrived for a Football game viewing party - so I got maybe 10 mins of evaluation. They played through the game and when everyone left, I got to play with them again - then I was blown away. Still haven't heard anything as power, but enveloping as them.

My cabinets are just getting started. Gluing together baffles and transmission lines. Hopefully get my router cuts done on Saturday! Just started a new position at work, so progress is slow,

[bostonmurf]

thats really good info, thanks Kevin. ill probably set them up and let them play a few hours to bed them in. congrats on the new role at work!

[bostonmurf]

Job Done
letting them burn in this week before i do a proper sound evaluation. i think i need a bigger screen!

[5th element]

Excellent! I am envious of that screen.

[kevinm]

Sam here! Definitely worthy of Statement power.

Just an FYI, I have guitars in my room too, the Statements sometimes cause them to resonate when playing loudly

[bostonmurf]

thanks gents! yes the screen is 100 inch but the initial cost of setting up the cinema room was only about 1600. it was spare of the moment thing, i was pricing up a 55inch tv at 1500 and thought how much would a projector cost and would it be good enough. so i bought a cheapish view sonic projector ($800) thats has been AMAZING, even with some light in the room - and a cheap roller screen for $150. topped it off with a sony sound bar for cost issues and finally a couple of reclining cinema chairs for a total of 1600. even without the 5.1 surround it was great and always impressed visitors. upgraded to 5.1 with BIC America speakers about a year ago and now I'm going the DIY route. the screen and projector will last till i go the 4k route in a few years when prices have dropped.
had to move the acoustic guitar and im planning where the others are going to live. also moved my wifes keyboard to make space on the left hand side, something im quietly happy about at it always looked like a silent movie theatre with the piano at the side of the stage and the villain tying a woman to train tracks
so, center speaker next project.

[bostonmurf]

After a few days of using my Statements here are my views and advice for anyone who's new to DIY speakers and woodwork.

Tools
Router - Your going to need a Router, preferably a plunge router and if your buying one for the first time get a 1/2 inch collet. You have so many more options for larger size bits and most come with a 1/4 inch collect adapter if you need it. To cut the circles buy a jasper jig, it makes life very easy.

Circular Saw or Table Saw - I'm using a cheap table saw which is ok but i struggled a bit passing large sheets through it as I'm working alone. My advise is get the guys at the lumber store to cut the sheets into more manageable pieces but give yourself at least 1 inch extra, the last guy who cut my sheets didn't do it straight but as i accounted for that it worked out ok.

Sander - I used a palm/mouse sander ranging from 50 grit to 120 grit which worked great on mdf. I also have a bench disc sander which saved me so much time getting everything level and fitting perfect.

Drill - I have a drill press and regular 18v drill. the drill press has helped to make sure I drilled straight holes but only has a 4 inch space so i couldn't use it on the front to drill pilot holes for the screws (ALWAYS drill pilot holes!!!!!). For a solution i used this little tool, worked extremely well too! http://www.amazon.com/Gator-V-DrillG...ds=drill+guide

Rafter Square - These are $4 each at your local store, very handy to make sure everything glues square.

Clamps - I bough a selection of cheap clamps which worked fine. 1 broke but the rest did the job. If your planning to buy 10, buy 16 instead of different sizes - theres nothing worse than running out of clamps mid gluing!

Glue - Titebond III, its incredibly strong. I was worried it would be too weak so I ran some tests on scrap mdf. I glued 2 pieces together then after 12 hours ripped them apart. the mdf tore apart instead of the seam so i knew it was going to hold just fine. Some brushes for the glue are a good idea too. For foam use 3m 77 spray adhesive. Use a small foam roller for glueing the front 3/4 & 1/2 panels together, this way you don't get fibers in the glue.

Screws - I used #6 x 3/4 for the Tweeters and Midrange, #8 x 3/4 for the Woofers. Don't use a drill to drive the screws in, do it slowly with a screw driver after you've made the pilot holes, this way your less likely to slip and damage the speakers

Electric Kitchen Knife - For cutting foam this is the best, so easy!

Look at the tools as a separate cost, not part of the build. you going to use all of them again around the house so there a wise investment.

Newbie Tips - Plan everything out step by step, join this forum and start a post. Ask questions every step of the way if your not sure, the help i received has been amazing and very fast. Take your time and check everything, if you plan to finish them in a month re-plan for 2 months, that way you don't get discouraged at your progress, if it goes faster then great, treat it as a bonus. wear eye protection, ear protection and a mask when cutting the mdf, its messy as hell. when cutting out the front holes for the speakers do a few practice runs on scraps. I ended up remaking mine as i cut them a little small. I added 1/16 on the size in the pdf plans and it fits great. Also second time around I cut out the holes on the 3/4 front panel before glueing to the 1/2 mdf. this way if i made any errors i only had to replace the 3/4 mdf. Once glued use a trim router bit to cut out the remaining holes form the 1/2, its less stress on your router too.

Crossovers - this is one area I didn't feel comfortable with at all so I ordered them pre built from Meniscus Audio. They do a great job and these things are solidly built, plus they only cost about $55 extra per speaker to be assembled.

Overall Thoughts

My room is not the best for audio equipment, I have very shiny laminate flooring and a large opening to the left of the room. This unfortunately bounces the sound around a bit making it hollow no matter what I use in there so I had to take that into account before listening to the statements. These were built for my next home (hopefully moving next year) so it is what it is for now.

First play, very happy but not "blown away". They performed really well but I guess I'd over hyped them in my head a little due to the excitement of getting them finished. I'm not saying I was disappointed at all, far from it. They sounded great. Now they've been playing in my basement for a few days for about an hour each morning fairly loud. I checked them again today and I can honestly say they sound so much better. The separations in the tones are beautiful, you can pick out each instrument with real clarity. They are definitely improving with each hour played and they do need about 20 hours before making a full and honest review. Are they as good as a pair of $5000 speakers? I can't answer that, I've not heard any to compare. In my opinion you shouldn't compare them anyway, your looking for a sound that YOU love and are happy with. If they bring a big smile to your face when listening to them you did the right thing building them. Could I have spent the $1300 or so on a pre manufactured pair of speakers, sure BUT they weren't built with the TLC that my statements where built with and I doubt they would sound anywhere near as good. I checked every step of the build, took time on every drill hole and got down to eye level on every inch I sanded to make sure they were perfect. I'm extremely happy with these, and would definitely build them again or recommend anyone to build them. The skills you learn are reward enough but the sound will make you smile from ear to ear. These are just going to get better and better as time goes on, just what i wanted. I think I just found my speakers for life and best of all I built them.

My idea was to build the towers and if I loved them build the whole 5.1 statement set. Im starting the build on the center in 2 weeks.

I'll add more in a few weeks but for now thats where i am. If anyone new to this build would like to contact me with questions please feel free to do so, I'm more than happy to give any help i can.

Huge thanks go out to Jim, Kevin and Curt for all your help. I seriously couldn't have completed them without your collective assistance. If your ever in the Boston area let me know, I owe you all a few drinks

EDIT: I've been running the towers for about 40 hours now and i thought it was only fair to review them again. WOW!!! they are amazing! they have got so good I'm uterly shocked at how good they are now. they were very good at first but now there at a different level. when you play something thats a very good recording through them the sound is unreal. I'm just using airplay on my amp with an amazon prime music app and tried a variety of music and all are incredible. its funny but i was playing Heaven Can Wait by Meatloaf just relaxing with my daughter - it seriously felt (and I'm not exaggerating here) they he was in the room with us. if your on the fence about making them trust me, its the best project I've ever done.

[spleen21]

Nicely put bostonmurf! As a noob I totally agree with all the build tips. Learning is fun (and often infuriating )

I've put about 30 hours of listening into my statement II's, both movies and music, and agree that they get better and better with every hour i use them. All my friends who have sat in the sweet spot for a listen have immediately commented on how clear they are. You can hear every little detail and the base is so crisp and precise! Incredible!

Congrats on finishing your build. They look great and i too am very jealous of that screen!

On to the center and surrounds!

[bostonmurf]

Thanks spleen21, it was great fun with only a few minor headaches mainly from lack of sleep due to excitement and planning the weekend work ahead. I'm guessing thats normal when you start these builds
I may be picking your brains soon on veneering/finishing, your statements turned out awesome!

[kevinm]

Congrats. Now just don't be like me and let them sit as raw MDF for months and months - and months.

Although, on the other hand, if you wait long enough like me - building new cabinets seems easier and better. Haha.

Have they opened up more?

[bostonmurf]

Congrats. Now just don't be like me and let them sit as raw MDF for months and months - and months.

Although, on the other hand, if you wait long enough like me - building new cabinets seems easier and better. Haha.

Have they opened up more?

LOL! i know, its tempting to leave them a bit but i did get some veneer delivered for trials. If it goes well ill get some more ordered and make it my winter project after the center is complete.

yes there starting to open up nicely, problem is my room is not so good for sound - its way too echoey for me to really jude them properly. I may have found a new home we looked at on the weekend that has a finished basement with plenty of room to partition off a 12.5 ft x 20 ft section for a dedicated HT room. im thinking 120" screen should fit nicely in there

[bostonmurf]

quick question time guys.
so after reading a few posts today i now realize i still have my amp output set for 8 ohms speakers although i understand the statements are 4 ohms. im using the statements in a 5.1 setup with 8 ohm center and surrounds. should i change the amp setting to 4 ohms and if i do will it affect/damage the 8 ohm speakers or should i leave it as is until i have at least a center speaker built. thanks in advance for your help

[bostonmurf]

Statement Center Channel

So with the long weekend and my wife off to Montreal to see family its time to get stuck into the center channel. After a lot of emails back and fourth with Jim (thank you so much for your time Jim) I'm building the Statement 2 center speaker with the W4-1337 SD's. I wanted them to match my full tower Statement so I'm using the Crossovers from Jed and Frodaddy's 2RCC. Rained all day Saturday so i could only do a little work, got a bit more done on Sunday - waiting for glue to dry so i can add the top. Just using wood left over to build everything then when I have the cash ill drop in the drivers.

[kevinm]

Solid work, Boston!

May I ask what order you glued stuff together? I had to clamp mine into submission, so Im betting there is a better sequence than mine.

[bostonmurf]

Hi Kevin, I did things a little different this time and basically cut a piece then glued it, while it was drying cut some more pieces then glued them. It made it easier to make sure everything fit perfect. I glued each part with about an hour in between each clamping in this order
I started with the back and added the sides,
then 4in braces and the mid chamber braces
then added the base and built the mid chamber separately
added the mid chamber
added the top

the pic is a little deceiving, i had to use a lot of clamps on the top and bottom and the wet looking glue was added after the parts had dried purely to add extra sealing to the joints.

hows your veneering coming along? I'm interested to see how it turns our as I'm going for the same look on mine.

[kevinm]

Sounds like an interesting method. I oversize my baffle/back so I could flush trim router them, so I had to start on the bottom. I followed pretty much the same, but starting on the bottom first instead. I like your idea of cutting and gluing together at the same time. Great way to minimize mistakes...if only I owned the table saw I use

And haven't even gotten the veneer yet :/

I think I am switching gears to focus on bass traps before I finish the new speakers....need to wait for the drivers anyways. Still looking at an Oct 31 ship date on the Vifa's.

[bostonmurf]

winters around the corner, tis the season of veneering! - well at least you can do that in doors. thats my plan, get the cabinet making done now so im not out there in the snow :-)

whats size bass traps are you planning and how many?

just out of interest what are you using for surrounds? ive no idea what im going to build.

[kevinm]

My thoughts exactly. The GF won't like it in the house, but that's we ask for forgiveness before permission.

I am thinking that I will do floor to ceiling with R30. I've read a lot about them and no one seems to provide any real concrete evidence comparing rigid fiberglass (OC703, Rockwool, Safe n Sound) vs the pink fluffy stuff that's actually apples to apples. So far, it looks like 10-12 inches of pink fluffy with an air gap in the corner is really effective. I'm after the GIK Tri-Trap design so they will be stackable. 2 per corner.

http://gikacoustics.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/GIK-Acoustics-Tri-Trap-in-corner.jpg

As for surrounds, I was using a pair of Noobsters, but have since taken them out because my room configuration made them really awkward. Couch is really close to one wall and open to a walk way next to the other end. So it forced the surrounds to be right up to the couch - which meant you were only a foot or two away from the speaker. Aesthetically, I had an OCD moment and decided to just stick with the ceiling speakers that came with the house. The sound was great with them, but I didn't think it worked well enough to overcome how intrusive they were.

[bostonmurf]

Looks like a nice project Kevin. I'm very interested to see your thoughts of how they change the sound, Its something I'm sure I'm going to do in the future. Are you starting a post on them? I hope so, id be keen to follow it as I'm sure a lot of people in here would be.

did a little more this weekend, flush trimmed the cabinet and used some left over MDF to make the stand. Really happy with it!

Oh and just and extra little treat to myself, a room wouldn't be complete without something that lets everyone know in a nice way where my HT throne is

[bostonmurf]

some more progress. front baffles are done, wiring is ready for the crossovers. foam is cut and ready to glue. decided not to angle the stand and instead install 4 grommets for spikes but just use the from ones for now. that way when i do move house i can angle it to suit the room.

[kevinm]

Nice work Boston! Looks like things are coming along nicely for you. Now just get to the hard part and start some finishing!

[bostonmurf]

hahaha!! thanks Kevin! i know, I'm putting it off I'm going to do a lot of trials first to make sure I've got it perfect before i do the towers... can't even begin to think how id feel if i mess them up!!

so crossovers soon and I'm making them myself, another BIG worry for me but its time i did them. question for you or Jim (or anyone else) on this - as were using non-shielded woofers on this design did the crossovers change in any way? I'm building the xo's from the frodaddy build and just noticed his BOM included the shielded drivers. if I'm correct on the statement towers there was no difference from shielded to non shielded crossovers?

[Jim Holtz]

hahaha!! thanks Kevin! i know, I'm putting it off I'm going to do a lot of trials first to make sure I've got it perfect before i do the towers... can't even begin to think how id feel if i mess them up!!

so crossovers soon and I'm making them myself, another BIG worry for me but its time i did them. question for you or Jim (or anyone else) on this - as were using non-shielded woofers on this design did the crossovers change in any way? I'm building the xo's from the frodaddy build and just noticed his BOM included the shielded drivers. if I'm correct on the statement towers there was no difference from shielded to non shielded crossovers?

No worries. The crossovers are the same and the drivers are interchangeable.

Jim

[bostonmurf]

awesome, thanks Jim

[bostonmurf]

more progress! so the cabinet and stand is done, sanded and speakers installed. just need to do the crossovers which is next weekends project. really pleased how its turned out!

ok so question time again - I'm getting near to building some surrounds and wanted something to keep in the statement family. I don't want to spend a ton of cash to build something that I'm not going to benefit from and i do need them to be close wall mounted. I've come across Jeds R4 which seem very interesting. Now, do you think this would be a good fit for my 5.1 set up (and possibly in the future build an additional 2 and go 7.1), i really don't want a weak link in the HT setup now after all the effort I've put in but as they are to be used as rears i wondered if they would be a good match to complete my setup. sub will be built later next year but i do have one that runs fine in the meantime.

just adding this to my thought on the towers now they have settled in.
EDIT: I've been running the towers for about 40 hours now and i thought it was only fair to review them again. WOW!!! they are amazing! they have got so good I'm uterly shocked at how good they are now. they were very good at first but now there at a different level. when you play something thats a very good recording through them the sound is unreal. I'm just using airplay on my amp with an amazon prime music app and tried a variety of music and all are incredible. its funny but i was playing Heaven Can Wait by Meatloaf just relaxing with my daughter - it seriously felt (and I'm not exaggerating here) they he was in the room with us. if your on the fence about making them trust me, its the best project I've ever done.

[bigjohn]

ok so question time again - I'm getting near to building some surrounds and wanted something to keep in the statement family. I don't want to spend a ton of cash to build something that I'm not going to benefit from and i do need them to be close wall mounted. I've come across Jeds R4 which seem very interesting. Now, do you think this would be a good fit for my 5.1 set up (and possibly in the future build an additional 2 and go 7.1), i really don't want a weak link in the HT setup now after all the effort I've put in but as they are to be used as rears i wondered if they would be a good match to complete my setup. sub will be built later next year but i do have one that runs fine in the meantime.

I used the R44's back when I had surround system, and they matched the statements quite well within in there limitations i.e. no bass. I believe they are some that use the F4 as surrounds as you don't necessarily need the upper frequency range.

[bostonmurf]

thanks John, thats good to know the R44s match. im considering R4's purely as a cost alternative for now. i was thinking of going R4's then when i upgrade to 7.1 build 2 R44's for the sides and put the R4's at the back. originally i was going to build the monitors but it just seems its not going to make much difference sound wise as im only using them as surrounds, the klipsch im using a the moment are cheap and do a great job pulling the sound back there. the r4's sound like there a nice upgrade and by using the same mid/tweeter should fit right in.
am i right in my assumption that the monitors would be an unnecessary/build expense just for surrounds or would they make a big difference in the overall experience? just curious to see what everyone thinks.

[bigjohn]

I think the R4's will do an excellent job as surrounds, and provide a nice consistent sound all around. My personal plan is that when I build a new house on my property, hopefully in the next 3-5 years, I want to do a full size statement surround system, I know it's total over kill, but I have most of the drivers, and it'll be fun.

[bostonmurf]

your going to have to reinforce the floor though, they weigh a ton
sounds like a fun project John, its addictive isnt it!

[bostonmurf]

First crossover made for the woofer. I'm doing the woofer, tweeter and midrange in 3 parts
My first time soldering so not as neat as i would have hoped but it does appear to be ok. Please let me know your thoughts, does it look ok?

[kevinm]

You're making solid progress boston! Making me look bad

I like the idea of the R4 or R44 since they are small - very flexible in room configuration.

[wkhanna]

Hi Darren.

Your solder joints look shinny & clean.
That is always a good thing.
Remember that good mechanical contact between the leads/wire is the first requirement for a good joint.

[bostonmurf]

thanks Guys! So I'm all finished! soldering started to get easier to the end, I'm glad i built the XO's myself now
... and the sound? unbelievable! so glad i chose the statements, R4s next

[bostonmurf]

first crossovers. not the best to look at but they sound great!

[kevinm]

Hey, those are nothing to be embarrassed about - first try or not. They're clean and logical. Excellent work!

So you have all up and running now? What's the verdict?

[bostonmurf]

Thanks Kevin, they were more fun to make than i thought they would be

sound wise there incredible, they really blow me away. I pulled the towers another 3 in from the wall and added a little stretched out acoustafill behind the tower woofers (around the brace) and a tiny bit in the mid chambers. its really helped a lot with the sound in this echoey room.
played some Ray Charles yesterday morning, thats when these shine. the piano sounds beautiful. not played a movie through the center yet but i tried it instead of one of the towers and it was just as amazing, even better than i had hoped. incredibly clean and bright and still keeping a really nice bass.

BTY a massive thanks to you for doing the cad drawings on the center channel, they were a huge help in building this and i would have seriously struggled without them.

Also huge thanks go to Jim, you are the best - you've given me so much help over this project i can't thank you enough. you and Curtis have created something truly incredible in the statements - something i never thought id ever be able to afford and now there sat in my HT room.

thanks also to Jed and frodaddy for the initial 2RCC post. another massive help, the crossover diagrams were a big help in convincing me to build them myself

thank you all so much for your encouragement and help. i can't wait to start the surrounds!!!!

[bostonmurf]

Monday off so work started on the R44's. Decided on the R44's instead of the R4's, I figured for another 65 per speaker its worth it in the long run and I'd only regret not doing it.
So the plan is to build the cabinets and add the crossovers to the back piece before gluing it on. ill use the drivers from the center to test it out, then if I like the sound ill buy the drivers - if not I'm only out of pocket the crossovers which I'm sure I can use some of the parts at a later date. I've got some walnut veneer so this gives me a great opportunity to try my hand at finishing.

[poppapig]

Excellent work and tracking thread! Love the center channel stand too I'm interested to see how the R44's turn out!

[bostonmurf]

Excellent work and tracking thread! Love the center channel stand too I'm interested to see how the R44's turn out!

thanks poppapig, ill keep you posted. im hoping to get the stand built this week and cut the holes on the weekend. i should have at least one complete by xmas all being well

[kevinm]

Hey boston, have you gotten anywhere with your veneer?

[bostonmurf]

Hi Kevin, sadly not.... going to finish the R44 and they are going to be the first on the list for veneer.
I know, you warned me to get them veneered as quick as possible.... I've fallen into the "I quite like this mdf look" trap!

[bostonmurf]

Just a bit of progress this weekend due to a terrible case of man flu.
Built the stands. Found a nice off-cut of hickory for the posts in Home Depot, the rest is MDF. The goal is to get them the same height as the mids/ribbon in the tower. Sanded the cabinets ready for hole cutting hopefully this weekend.
Slow and steady wins the race....