Tritrix TL and Ported Project - Mission Accomplished!

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  • rdrowley
    Member
    • Sep 2010
    • 87

    Tritrix TL and Ported Project - Mission Accomplished!

    I have been researching and trying to choose a set of speakers to build for some time. I finally decided to go with the Tritrix. I made this decision for several reasons. First, the price was right for me to buy six of them (because what's the point if you can't get as many as you really want), and be able to get it through the ever elusive WAF. Second, TL theory and practice is interesting to me, so right off the bat the project had my interest. And third, I saw ways to easily modify the design of these speakers to better suit my needs.

    After much debate on what style I should build I decided to go with 4 standard Tritrix TL's and two 19 L ported Tritrix MTM's. I had the room to put a TL as back surround speakers and the price difference for the MDF was negligible, so why not?!? At first I was going to not do the ported designs because they are a little more complicated and take up a lot more room, but as I started laying things out I discovered that for what I wanted to do the ported were going to work better.

    One of the basic considerations that I designed around was that the speakers had to be covered. This was for two reasons. The first of those reasons is actually three (3) reasons and they are ages 5, 3, and 3 months. They are lovely beautiful kids that love that I am doing a speaker project and can't wait till it's done, but those soft dome tweeters are almost too much for them to resist. The second reason is the WAF. So, with that in mind I found some nice magnetic grills from PE that were 21. in long and 8 in. wide, so my TL's ended up being 8 inches wide and my MTM's were 21 inches wide and 8 inches tall. Because the MTM's had to be this big if I did a sealed design they would only be able 3.5 inches deep. That wouldn't really work...so ported it is!

    Thanks to PE and their incredible Tritrix crossover guide building the crossovers was a snap. I built and tested all 6 of them in a couple of hours.

    Then the chips started flying! Here is the cut pile of lumber after an exciting Thursday morning that I took off work. For this project I did not buy a circle cutter for my router, but I built one. It basically amounted to a piece of 5/8th's ply wood that was fitted to my router as it's base, then I put holes in the appropriate spots to make the correct circle size, slipped a nail through the hole and through a corresponding hole on the speaker, and cut chips. Not perfect, but it did the job adequately.

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    For the TL's, not only did I need them just a little wider, but I also wanted them taller to get the tweeter up around ear level. With this desire came the opportunity to place the crossover in a more manageable spot. From these pictures you can see the false bottom that I put in the design and where the crossover will be going.

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    I decided to make these speakers last through Armageddon so I screwed and glued them. All the screws are counter sunk. This increased the build time a bit, but really increased the hole filling time. However...I highly doubt they will ever ever ever get loose or rattle...ever.

    Because of the increased width of the MTM's I decided to space out the speakers a little more than recommended. I think they look good, and I hope they will perform well. In this picture you can see the increased spacing and the installed crossover as well as the screw and glue method I used to build.

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    And here they are all built and ready to be filled! After much debate I decided to put a strip of decorative trim around the bottom. This was to increase the WAF and to also act as an outrigger of sorts so I could install speaker spikes further from the center of gravity. With the young kids I talked about earlier I wanted to make them a bit less likely to tip over than they were. I know the speaker spikes aren't necessary to audio reasons, but I like them for the safety reasons, and I think they will look good.

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    To fill the MANY holes and joints I decided to try Bondo. I have never used Bondo, but had heard that it was great for applications like this. After using it I have decided that I am a complete novice at using Bondo, but over the course of all of this I got considerably better. If you've never used bondo, this is what I learned:

    1) Right from the start plan on at least 2 coats everywhere. You may think that putting it on a little thicker will allow you to just do one application and hence save time...this will only be the case if you are an exceptional bondo applicator.

    2) For each application put on as thin a layer and you think you can get by with. This will prevent air pockets and LOTS of extra sanding.

    3) Try to find a day where it is less than 85 Deg F to work. Bondo sets up fast enough as it is (5 min, if you're lucky) but when it's hot you only get 2 min to work.

    4) If you've ever used any bondo product you already know this, but...once it starts to set, even a little bit, stop working! You're done with that batch, just throw the left overs away. YES, even if you only have 1 measly little tiny hole left. Just remember, if you apply that already setting bondo you're going to have to do it again anyhow.

    5) Clean your tools frequently during use and when finished. This will prevent bad artifacts in your bondo and will save your tools.

    6) If you drip any on the floor clean it up as soon as you're done applying the current batch. If you let it set up it will pull up the floor with it (even concrete) or it will be there forever.

    Now, having said that, here are my speakers all bondo'd up.

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    After bondoing, your best friends become a dust mask a set of ear plugs and a random orbit sander. I used a 100 grit to take off the big chunks (because it took 6 speakers to lean the 6 things I previously stated) and I used 220 grit to feather and finish.

    Here they are ready to prime and paint.

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    This picture was taken yesterday. I'm hoping to get the first coat of paint on Saturday. I am going to paint them with a gravity feed sprayer and with a good black satin oil based paint that I have used before on a project similar to this, although not speakers. If you look close you can see the spots on the speaker face where I inserted neodymium magnets into the corners to hold on the speaker grills. After they are painted you shouldn't even be able to tell they are there, but they should hold on the grills very well. I was originally going to just use the magnets in the grills to hold on to screw heads, but they didn't stick like I wanted them to. With these magnets installed they are solid.

    Right now I almost can't stand the wait to paint them <cough> <cough> I feel a cold coming on...maybe I should stay home from work...
    Last edited by theSven; 17 August 2023, 19:50 Thursday. Reason: Update image location
    -Ryan
  • Solid7
    Member
    • Jul 2010
    • 96

    #2
    Originally posted by rdrowley
    After bondoing, your best friends become a dust mask a set of ear plugs and a random orbit sander. I used a 100 grit to take off the big chunks (because it took 6 speakers to lean the 6 things I previously stated) and I used 220 grit to feather and finish.

    If you ever have to do this again, you can save yourself a LOT of trouble by "cutting" the bondo while it is semi-hard. Instead of waiting for it to harden, and then sanding it, (which is a PITA) wait about 20-30 minutes - while it is tacky, but not liquidy - and "cut" the excess using a steel tool (like a putty knife) tilted at a steep angle. You can get great results with a single pass, and only 1 application. No sanding required... (or very minimal, at worst)

    Comment

    • rdrowley
      Member
      • Sep 2010
      • 87

      #3
      Originally posted by Solid7
      If you ever have to do this again, you can save yourself a LOT of trouble by "cutting" the bondo while it is semi-hard. Instead of waiting for it to harden, and then sanding it, (which is a PITA) wait about 20-30 minutes - while it is tacky, but not liquidy - and "cut" the excess using a steel tool (like a putty knife) tilted at a steep angle. You can get great results with a single pass, and only 1 application. No sanding required... (or very minimal, at worst)
      Thanks for the great advice! I can see how tjat would not only save time and dusty effort, but that it could give a better and flatter finish. That will help a lot when I do my sub next (currently pending WAF).
      -Ryan

      Comment

      • Solid7
        Member
        • Jul 2010
        • 96

        #4
        Originally posted by rdrowley
        Thanks for the great advice! I can see how tjat would not only save time and dusty effort, but that it could give a better and flatter finish. That will help a lot when I do my sub next (currently pending WAF).

        I see that you are in Derby. I used to live in Wichita. PM me, if you are interested... (maybe we know each other!)

        Comment

        • BeerParty
          Senior Member
          • Oct 2008
          • 475

          #5
          Originally posted by rdrowley

          Because of the increased width of the MTM's I decided to space out the speakers a little more than recommended. I think they look good, and I hope they will perform well. In this picture you can see the increased spacing and the installed crossover as well as the screw and glue method I used to build.

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          I have some bad news for you.

          The driver spacing factors in to the crossover design for a speaker. If you change the spacing of the drivers you'll probably need a redesigned crossover for the new driver placement. I can't say this for certain, as I am not a crossover designer, but based on the discussions I have read in other threads changing the driver spacing is a bad thing to do.
          Last edited by theSven; 17 August 2023, 19:52 Thursday. Reason: Update quote
          Chris

          My Statement Monitors Build
          My AviaTrix Build

          Comment

          • rdrowley
            Member
            • Sep 2010
            • 87

            #6
            Originally posted by BeerParty
            I have some bad news for you.

            The driver spacing factors in to the crossover design for a speaker. If you change the spacing of the drivers you'll probably need a redesigned crossover for the new driver placement. I can't say this for certain, as I am not a crossover designer, but based on the discussions I have read in other threads changing the driver spacing is a bad thing to do.
            Dang, that is bad news. That is good to know for future builds though.

            Anybody have an idea on what level of negative impact I might be looking at here? Is it going to be a big enough impact to warrant me tossing the box and making it right?

            Also, I had another question about stuffing the ported MTM's. It's recommended that you "use 50% fill or line the walls". I have some bags of accousta stuff (although I'm not limited to that) and I was wondering how exactly I should get the recommended amount of stuffing? Should I put spray adhesive on the walls and stick the accousta stuff to it? Should I go buy some pink insulation and use that? Any recommendations would be helpful.
            Last edited by rdrowley; 30 September 2010, 07:19 Thursday.
            -Ryan

            Comment

            • 1Michael
              Senior Member
              • Sep 2006
              • 293

              #7
              "Anybody have an idea on what level of negative impact I might be looking at here?"
              Too late to worry about that now.
              FWIW the screws are used to hold the box together while the glue dries. They offer no structural strength...

              I have been using the cheap pink stuff to line the walls with for years and it works just fine. If I had money there are better options, but the stiffer fiberglass is actually better than the pink stuff, but Curt might have some other ideas.
              Michael
              Chesapeake Va.

              Comment

              • rdrowley
                Member
                • Sep 2010
                • 87

                #8
                Ok, I was able to do a little painting over the weekend. Here they are after primer:

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                And here they are after the second of three coats of black paint:

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                I was able to put together the two MTM's on Saturday and right off noticed a considerable difference in quality and depth of the music over my current speakers. I'm still working on installing the crossovers for the TL's but should have that in the next day or two. As I was working over the weekend I had a couple of questions come up that I could really use some help on.

                1. The TL's have the tweet biased to one side, for my R/L mains should the tweets be biased towards the center of the room or away from it?

                2. I've never had new speakers that need to be broken in before. How long and at what levels should I use them to break them in properly?


                Thanks for the assistance in advance.
                Last edited by theSven; 17 August 2023, 19:53 Thursday. Reason: Update image location
                -Ryan

                Comment

                • ThomasW
                  Moderator Emeritus
                  • Aug 2000
                  • 10933

                  #9
                  Originally posted by rdrowley
                  1. The TL's have the tweet biased to one side, for my R/L mains should the tweets be biased towards the center of the room or away from it?
                  Try them both ways see which you prefer
                  2. I've never had new speakers that need to be broken in before. How long and at what levels should I use them to break them in properly?
                  Just plug them in and play at your usual listening levels. The rest will take care of itself

                  IB subwoofer FAQ page


                  "Complicated equipment and light reflectors and various other items of hardware are enough, to my mind, to prevent the birdie from coming out." ...... Henri Cartier-Bresson

                  Comment

                  • rdrowley
                    Member
                    • Sep 2010
                    • 87

                    #10
                    Tritrix DIY Mission Accomplished!

                    After 3 coats of paint and a slow but very impatient crossover and driver install I'm done! I mentioned before how I was going to have a false bottom for the crossover to sit in. Here are a couple of pictures showing that.

                    This one is me testing which output wires are which before I close up the bottom.

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                    This is with the crossover all wired up and then the bottom in place. As you can see I decided to go with some nice long sharp speaker spikes for stability.

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                    I had to write "bottom" on the false bottom in case my wife decided to deep clean and she didn't know which was top and which was bottom...

                    It was terrible after I finished each speaker because I would hook it up to make sure it worked, and they sounded great, but then I had to be patient and finish all of them before I could get a real idea of what they sounded like together.

                    I finally got them all done and hooked up, then when I started testing them I noticed that one of them wasn't sounding as full range as the rest. The first thing I checked is whether I wired the woofers correctly, and sure enough I had one incorrectly installed. I switched the wires and it was perfect!

                    I installed 2 of the TL's for my front mains and 2 for my main surrounds. Then I installed a MTM for the center channel, and I have 2 different small speakers for my rear presence speakers to complete my 7.1 system. The TL's are a bit overkill as surround speakers, but they sure sound great...

                    Here is what they look like without grills. The CC is sitting in a custom built TV stand that I made.

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                    And here they are with the grills.

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                    I think they look incredible, and more importantly...the wife thinks they do too! The increased height is great for my room and for listening, and the bases with those long spikes are rock solid, which is a good thing because these things aren't exactly light. They are no Statement mind you, but they aren't light either.

                    As for listening...wow. When I first hooked them up I was impressed by the depth and clarity of the music. The bass was just OK, but I was kind of expecting a little more. After I got them all in place I calibrated my receiver and soon realized why I thought they were lacking bass. When I had my previous speakers installed the receiver was crossing them over at 60Hz, when the receiver heard these Tritrix speakers it decided that no crossover was necessary. That's when the music really came alive! I'm sure this has been said before, but it is simply amazing how good they sound for how inexpensive they are. There range is really incredible for 5.25in speakers, and even though the tweeter isn't as good as the one being used in the Aviatrix builds, it is WORLDS better than anything I've ever had before. With the TL's as surrounds I can crank on some music in THX Music mode and close my eyes and be surrounded by absolutely great music. And they aren't too bad for HT use either.

                    Sadly, now that I've completed this build the DIY bug has struck! Now I just want to do another project! A subwoofer is certainly next, but after that...who knows.
                    Last edited by theSven; 17 August 2023, 19:54 Thursday. Reason: Update image location
                    -Ryan

                    Comment

                    • john trials
                      Senior Member
                      • Mar 2009
                      • 449

                      #11
                      Nice looking arrangement!!!!!
                      Statements: "They usually kill the desire to build anything else."

                      Comment

                      • LoveDoctor
                        Junior Member
                        • Aug 2010
                        • 15

                        #12
                        Once you get a sub built and installed, I'd recommend using the HPF/crossover again. Really low, loud booms with HT content will send those wee Daytons into a tizzy. I used to run ported TriTrixes for my LCRs and crossed them at 60Hz and they seemed happy. Your TLs can probably go lower safely, but the center needs a bit more protection.

                        Oh, and they look great BTW. The TriTrix is definitely a good way to get addicted to the DIY drug. That's what got me hooked! I've since replaced my Tri's with AviaTrixes, and the midbass is quite a bit better, but I almost feel S's have a bit more sibilance. I think I'm just used to the ol' TriTrixes.

                        How big is your listening room? The community here might have some good suggestions for subs to match your room/speaker combination.

                        Comment

                        • rdrowley
                          Member
                          • Sep 2010
                          • 87

                          #13
                          Originally posted by LoveDoctor
                          Once you get a sub built and installed, I'd recommend using the HPF/crossover again. Really low, loud booms with HT content will send those wee Daytons into a tizzy. I used to run ported TriTrixes for my LCRs and crossed them at 60Hz and they seemed happy. Your TLs can probably go lower safely, but the center needs a bit more protection.
                          I actually kept the center crossed at 50Hz. I didn't think that one would make a huge difference in the bass scheme and knew it wasn't designed to go down to the 30Hz range.

                          I was also able to open them up quite a bit yesterday. I turned my amp up to 0db, which is actually just half way, but at the same time it is louder than I've ever had my system. The sound was still incredible. No bass artifacts, no noticeable distortion, just good clean sounds. My wife said it was quite audible and clear from up stairs... ops: Honestly, I couldn't be happier with them!

                          Thanks for the input on the sub, I'll submit room dimensions soon in another thread to look for sub advice.
                          -Ryan

                          Comment

                          • numberoneoppa
                            Senior Member
                            • Sep 2009
                            • 535

                            #14
                            Wow, those look really great with the grills on!
                            -Josh

                            That feeling when things are finally going right. Yeah, that one.

                            Comment

                            • flamethrower1
                              Senior Member
                              • May 2008
                              • 392

                              #15
                              Hey Ryan,
                              I am getting ready to build a pair of these for my son and would like to build them like you did (towers only).
                              Anyway, I have a couple of questions:
                              If you built them 8.5 inches wide, did you adjust the depth to keep the original planned volume?
                              What was the hieght dimension that you used and demension of the false bottom for the xovers
                              Also, do you have the part # of the grills fro PE?
                              OH and nice job by the way
                              Thanks, Greg

                              Comment

                              • rdrowley
                                Member
                                • Sep 2010
                                • 87

                                #16
                                Originally posted by flamethrower1
                                Hey Ryan,
                                I am getting ready to build a pair of these for my son and would like to build them like you did (towers only).
                                Anyway, I have a couple of questions:
                                If you built them 8.5 inches wide, did you adjust the depth to keep the original planned volume?
                                What was the hieght dimension that you used and demension of the false bottom for the xovers
                                Also, do you have the part # of the grills fro PE?
                                OH and nice job by the way
                                Thanks, Greg
                                Greg,
                                I did not adjust the depth of the transmission line. From my understanding what matters most in a TL design is the way the x-section necks down, and I kept that exactly the same.

                                The height I used was 40 inches. The false bottom was a total of 4 inches tall, but I put 3/4 inch think and 3 1/8 inch tall MDF pieces on the front and back of the false bottom to attach the bottom/x-over plate to as seen here by the screw locations.

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                                I did not put those MDF supports on the sides of the false bottom, and there would not have been room for the crossover if I had. By making the front and back bottom supports 3 1/8 inch tall it ensured that the bottoms were recessed just a small distance, which I wanted, over having them be proud. I also rounded the corners of the bottom plates so they fit the hole easily.

                                The PE number for the grills is 302-758.

                                Good luck on your project. If you have any more questions please ask!
                                Last edited by theSven; 17 August 2023, 19:55 Thursday. Reason: Update image location
                                -Ryan

                                Comment

                                • flamethrower1
                                  Senior Member
                                  • May 2008
                                  • 392

                                  #17
                                  Ryan, thanks for the info, on my way down to the shop now to make a lttle dust

                                  Greg

                                  Comment

                                  • rdrowley
                                    Member
                                    • Sep 2010
                                    • 87

                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by flamethrower1
                                    Hey Ryan,
                                    I am getting ready to build a pair of these for my son and would like to build them like you did (towers only).
                                    Anyway, I have a couple of questions:
                                    If you built them 8.5 inches wide, did you adjust the depth to keep the original planned volume?
                                    What was the hieght dimension that you used and demension of the false bottom for the xovers
                                    Also, do you have the part # of the grills fro PE?
                                    OH and nice job by the way
                                    Thanks, Greg
                                    Greg,
                                    I hope I'm not too late...but I was curious after I responded yesterday and I made the speakers 8 inches wide, not 8.5. The grills fit at that width.
                                    -Ryan

                                    Comment

                                    • flamethrower1
                                      Senior Member
                                      • May 2008
                                      • 392

                                      #19
                                      Whew, glad that I had to delay the start of this project.
                                      Thanks for the heads up.

                                      Greg

                                      Comment

                                      • rdrowley
                                        Member
                                        • Sep 2010
                                        • 87

                                        #20
                                        Listening impressions after break-in

                                        Now that I've had almost a month to listen to these and break them in I thought I would give a little bit of an update. When I first started into this I didn't realize how fun and addictive it could be. Not only the building and customizing the project how I wanted it, but also getting me back in to really listening to music.

                                        When I first finished these I thought they sounded great for the price I paid, and I still think they look great, but as I've listened to them and pushed them a bit I've really noticed them mellowing out. I didn't realize they were a tad bright at first because I was comparing them to what I had before, but I really noticed when they mellowed. It wasn't a huge difference, but it was enough to make listening that much more enjoyable. With the TL's for my front L/R's and for my surround L/R's I get great sound surrounding me in movies. Nothing seems to be lacking. The ported CC is also great, though lacking some of the range of the TL's. With my previous system it was at times difficult to hear the dialog because things were muddy. This system is an unbelievable amount better. Even at low volumes I can hear everything.

                                        I know this is the entry level DIY project, but I am very pleased with what I ended up with. The only really bad thing out of the whole deal is now I want to make a Statement or two to compare...
                                        -Ryan

                                        Comment

                                        • BeerParty
                                          Senior Member
                                          • Oct 2008
                                          • 475

                                          #21
                                          Originally posted by rdrowley
                                          I know this is the entry level DIY project, but I am very pleased with what I ended up with. The only really bad thing out of the whole deal is now I want to make a Statement or two to compare...
                                          We have hooked a big one here folks, reel him in nice and easy and we'll eat well tonight! :T
                                          Chris

                                          My Statement Monitors Build
                                          My AviaTrix Build

                                          Comment

                                          • numberoneoppa
                                            Senior Member
                                            • Sep 2009
                                            • 535

                                            #22
                                            Originally posted by BeerParty
                                            We have hooked a big one here folks, reel him in nice and easy and we'll eat well tonight! :T
                                            Muahahahahaha :twisted:
                                            -Josh

                                            That feeling when things are finally going right. Yeah, that one.

                                            Comment

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