Large.. Dual 15" RL-p Unit

[Dennis H]

John needs to start getting some product out the door. How many years has this been going on? I thought bringing Deon onboard was supposed to help but it looks like he's trying to feed two mouths on zero income instead of just one..... (shrug)

[Mark Seaton]

Last time I chatted with John the primary holdup was some metalwork with the rest of the parts ready and waiting. I wouldn't expect drivers super soon, but hopefully sooner than later.

[ssabripo]

Easy guys....there are several reasons for his delays. First, he has been going thru a lot of personal turmoil in the past 3-4 months, from his sick father passing away finally, to his daughters' illness, etc.

Second, there have been several setbacks from suppliers, and given some of the financial issues AE has been having, getting it off the ground has been very difficult. Deon coming aboard was huge, but that has been also hampered for a variety of reasons....

I'm sure (I hope) AE will eventually sort all this out and start to get products out the door.

[Dennis H]

I'm sorry to hear about John's personal problems and the latest problems with his suppliers but the unavailablity of his drivers has been going on for at least the 5 years that I've been aware of them. At some point, we as consumers need to make our own sound business decisions......

[---k---]

Steve Callas,
I have no doubt that when you buy a house, high on the list of "must haves" will be a room suitable to a IB installation. And, in that case, you will need four drivers, because IB likes even number of drivers.

[Hdale85]

Just 4? why not 8? or 16? :B

[SteveCallas]

Yeah, if you roughly figure the sensitivity down low of a sealed design is 1/2 that of ported, I'd be looking at an eight 18" driver IB. In the back of my mind I have considered an IB for when I get a home, but to beat the capabilities of the four ported sonosubs, with only 15" drivers available, I wouldn't attempt it unless I got ten drivers. I just don't see much benefit to paying that $2000+ unless I really have a desire to recreate frequencies below 10hz, and at this point, I'm not yet convinced that is needed. Sure, I'd have tons of headroom in the upper bass, but I'll already have way more than enough with the four sonosubs.

[Hdale85]

but you also wouldnt have all that floor space taken up by these 4 huge tubes

[John_E_Janowitz]

It has definitely been a long time since I had drivers to sell. TOO LONG. The big issue all along has been money and credit. How do you buy parts for drivers, or get someone to make drivers for you with no money and no credit? Then at the same time, how do you pay for $3000 a month in overhead without drivers to sell?

For too long I've tried to look at the immediate situation and have been in "survival mode", doing jobs just trying to get through the month. As someone stated, I could make about 50 AV woofers here. The problem is with the week it takes for me to machine the steel by hand myself, drive it to the plate shop, wait for it to be plated, then build the drivers, etc. Yes it makes me some money now but it sets back the big picture by another few weeks.

I'm now concentrating on the big picture and an overall solution that will allow me to do something significant. I'm still working all alone for now. I have been living AE Speakers every minute I could for the past four months. I can't get by with just 2 or 3 driver offerings. I can't get buy with getting parts for 50-100 drivers at a time. I need to do things right and go big or go home. You WILL see some great things from AE Speakers in a few months. It's not the time or place to announce them yet. Just know that I'm taking my time to do things right once and for all so things don't repeat like they have in the past.

John

[SteveCallas]

but you also wouldnt have all that floor space taken up by these 4 huge tubes

But they look badass :T I guess I could use two Avalanches for the left RB, two for the right RB, and then use 4-6 15" drivers to handle LFE and center RB.....I still don't see much benefit to it though.

[Hdale85]

Yea but see when you have an IB hidden behind a little vent that looks like its for an AC or somthing and you dont have any huge boxes in the room you have this nice little feature. You bring friends of family over and set them in the sweet spot and then turn it up real loud play a scene from a good movie and blow them away and leave them with that WTF face :wtf:...:B

[SteveCallas]

I like - and I think Steve nn can now attest to this too - the shock and awe method. They see the sub(s) and they are in shock. They experience the sub(s) and they are in awe :W

[steve nn]

I like - and I think Steve nn can now attest to this too - the shock and awe method. They see the sub(s) and they are in shock. They experience the sub(s) and they are in awe

My neighbor sure can attest to that. I had to chuckle when she pulled out of the garage and her eyes landed on what I was putting together in our garage. No mistake about it..I have never had any single or dual option that could compete with what I've been experiencing this last week. It does take up a chunk of space, but it's space not used for anything anyway. I understand space and the premium it can command along with WAF and how the two are so intertwined, but the draw of efficiency seems to be the path for me.


TGIF..

[chasw98]

I like - and I think Steve nn can now attest to this too - the shock and awe method. They see the sub(s) and they are in shock. They experience the sub(s) and they are in awe :W

Since I built my tube, I have had the same exact experience! They look at it, then they look at me, make crazy comments, then they hear it. Then they want one :T

[SteveCallas]

Since I built my tube, I have had the same exact experience! They look at it, then they look at me, make crazy comments, then they hear it. Then they want one :T

Exactly.

I understand space and the premium it can command along with WAF and how the two are so intertwined, but the draw of efficiency seems to be the path for me.

Yeah, driver for driver, the large, low tuned ported design should extract the most performance. The recent talks at AVS about the rotary sub and single digit frequencies in the Hi End forum are getting me curious. I'm wondering how low a port can be useful to - some have mentioned before that it can start suffering from compression if too low a frequency is tried to be passed through it. I wonder if that is applicable more to small 3" and 4" ports, and not so much to larger ones like an 8" or Steve's mammoth 10".

Edit - Nevermind, took a look at it and there really aren't any advantages to tuning below 13hz. I'll probably bring them all in around 13.5hz when done.

[steve nn]

Nevermind, took a look at it and there really aren't any advantages to tuning below 13hz. I'll probably bring them all in around 13.5hz when done.

What tune do you have going now Steve?..aren't you coming in around 13.5 now? Whatever you do, your going to be sure their all tuned the same yes? You'll have so much headroom you can get buy with a little cancellation, but I'm sure you wouldn't settle for that. Maybe it's your intention to pull the port in what you have now if your design/tuning changes with the other units you plan on building?

I need to do things right and go big or go home. You WILL see some great things from AE Speakers in a few months. It's not the time or place to announce them yet. Just know that I'm taking my time to do things right once and for all so things don't repeat like they have in the past.

imo..That was a honest from the heart post you made there John. You have a inside look at what it takes to make things happen. I for one will be rooting for you and hoping your business becomes a very viable option in the future. 8)

Ok guys I got a house that smells like a sheet of MDF. Quick question here..Are there any drawbacks to gluing hardwood to Cherry veneer? I'm thinking about the 2 or 3/16 thick veneer panels a guy can buy at HD. I'm sure it contracts and expands over the course of the year with the different seasons and all. It would be my intention to veneer the front and top with reg veneer and then dress it up with the panels after I come up with a design. Is there a special glue that would flex with the wood? I could just use two veneers, but the panels seem like a fun way to go if it can be done without cracking up on me. I'm totally open to any suggestions that any would have in design area also. This is a long term sub so lets make it pretty although it be big. :P

[bossobass]

John Janowitz is as straight up a guy as I've ever had the pleasure to meet (in phone conversations and e-mail) and his knowledge of low freqs is up there with the best of them.

I wish him nothing but the best and wanted to say that when he finally gets the ball rolling he can count on an order from me.

I still have a 2X12" sealed sub using 2 of the original AV-12s and they are good quality drivers at a great price. The knowledge I received from John about technical matters, the players and products in the industry years ago is more than worth my continued support.

Break a leg John and if there's ever anything I can do to help, please LMK. 8)

Bosso

[SteveCallas]

What tune do you have going now Steve?..aren't you coming in around 13.5 now? Whatever you do, your going to be sure their all tuned the same yes?

This first one is at ~14.7hz. The second one will come in ~13.5hz and I am going to take the port out of my first one and replace it with a longer one so it will be ~13.5hz as well. I'm really struggling to figure out how I can comfortably place the second sub in my living room....I may have to ditch my dining table :B

imo..That was a honest from the heart post you made there John. You have a inside look at what it takes to make things happen. I for one will be rooting for you and hoping your business becomes a very viable option in the future.

John Janowitz is as straight up a guy as I've ever had the pleasure to meet (in phone conversations and e-mail) and his knowledge of low freqs is up there with the best of them.

I wish him nothing but the best and wanted to say that when he finally gets the ball rolling he can count on an order from me.

I agree, I feel like I should pick up a couple as well.

Wish I could help you out on the veneer Steve

[steve nn]

I may have to ditch my dining table :B

It's gotta go! Think what's really important..A table to eat on or another sub?

Break a leg John and if there's ever anything I can do to help, please LMK.

I'll certainly help with buying a 18"er that specs out well.

Wish I could help you out on the veneer Steve

Yeah...you would probably have me wrap it with a rug wouldn't you? :rofl:

[---k---]

Stevenn,
You know I was looking around the house last week and have about a 1/2 dozen unfinished/unstarted projects, and some that really need to get finished. I looked over at my subs, with the big drivers staring me in the face, I just smiled with a school-boy chuckle. I was happy. I didn't need more.

Then last night, my little brother calls me up. His roommate was doing stand-up at Walter Payton's Roundhous (an amazing restraunt/micro brew/bar if you're ever in the westner burbs.) We were sitting in the front row, over in the corner. His roommate was good, but then the headliner came on. At the end of his act, he did some Rock and Roll tribute thing. We quickly found out, we were sitting right on top of the subs. WOW. Talk about pant's flapping bass!!! ACDC's she shook me all night took on new meaning. They must have had the bass cranked way up and out of control. Even songs like Devel Ran Down to Georgia, and Billy Idol were shaking our table. My wife said it made her cheast hurt.

But the whole time, I was thinking, 'maybe I don't have enough bass. I need to go home and play some of this and see. Steve's boxes arn't really that much bigger than mine, i could probably make it work.' heheheheheheh

[SteveCallas]

But the whole time, I was thinking, 'maybe I don't have enough bass. I need to go home and play some of this and see. Steve's boxes arn't really that much bigger than mine, i could probably make it work.' heheheheheheh

Checkmate

[Exocer]

Stevenn, have you had a chance to check how much air is being pumped out of that port during low freq passages? The port is so large that I can't imagine being able to really feel lots of air pressure, but then again you have two montrous 15" drivers in there so it may be possible.

[steve nn]

Stevenn, have you had a chance to check how much air is being pumped out of that port during low freq passages? The port is so large that I can't imagine being able to really feel lots of air pressure, but then again you have two montrous 15" drivers in there so it may be possible.

I forget what scene it was, but I did try it out as a lark to see if I could feel anything and it was very slight...it might not have been that heavy duty of a scene either? I seriously doubt that I could bring it to the point of chuffing though...not with the single EP2500 even if I had more available power.. I'm sure I would fry the coils before I could induce chuffing . I certainly feel lots of pressure at seating though.

I revisited the SW II Fly-by scene and found I could go to 116dB amp limited. Add 3dB for correction and that puts it at 119, so Steve C guestimate was very close. In my room this is very good considering the low tune and the placement. I'll post a pic to show what it is up against in roomgain and reinforcement. There is another entrance to the left that the pic doesn't reflect, but I think you'll get a good idea of what I'm up against.


Image not available

[steve nn]

I came in the house from working out in the yard and right away I knew something was off! So I took a look in the living room and it appeared as though my sub was sick or it was trying to take over the couch.



I figured maybe it needed some care, so I rigged up some scaffolding



to see if I could help it along.









I still have a ways to go, but I think I have the middle band figured out if my hands can do what I intend?? I'm wanting to fuse a 5" band down the middle starting from the back top behind the port down to the bottom under the lower driver. I'll use discarded veneer as filler, so when I put the differently toned strip of veneer on.. it might have a raised look like a piece of hardwood? If this doesn't work out, I always have the can of black paint as a standby. :evil:

[SteveCallas]

Lol, excellent Maybe your sub was trying to get some loving from the couch.

If I understand you correct, the different toned strip down the middle will function almost like a racing stripe, yes? I get a Karate Kid flashback when I think of how long it might take to stain and/or rub oil into that much veneer.

[Brian Bunge]

What is doing is what is referred to as a "stringer". Meadowlark Audio did the same thing with solid wood with their last speaker designs. It's a shame they closed up shop.

[steve nn]

Maybe your sub was trying to get some loving from the couch.

That's a thought. I've been fairly easy on them except for a few max SPL tests. Maybe the drivers are getting insecure from having to move so much? :P

If I understand you correct, the different toned strip down the middle will function almost like a racing stripe, yes? I get a Karate Kid flashback when I think of how long it might take to stain and/or rub oil into that much veneer.

Exactly, except I hope it doesn't come across as a racing stripe, but more of a decorative feature?? It's taken a full 24 X 96" roll with just doing the top and front so far and that's not counting the strip I'll need to rob from the other roll. I'll do the top half of each side or L them (along with paint where it doesn't show) for now and see how it comes across. I still might be picking up a third roll$ though. :E

[steve nn]

What is doing is what is referred to as a "stringer". Meadowlark Audio did the same thing with solid wood with their last speaker designs. It's a shame they closed up shop.

That's interesting Brian. I wonder if they have any pics on line anywhere even though they folded?

EDIT> I see they do..more ideas.

[ssabripo]

Looks like Subwoofer pr0n to me! :lol:

Stevenn, I think I'm gonna plunk on the idea of veneering the sub...too much work to be honest

[SteveCallas]

Call me crazy, but I wonder what a carpeted box sub would look like. I'm not talking shag green carpet or anything like that, but something like the heavy wear carpet or short matte with a color that matches your room or floor. Anybody ever do something like that?

[steve nn]

Looks like Subwoofer pr0n to me! :lol:

... I'm hoping Sherv. I always fear routering out the baffle with the veneer already glued in place, but so far so good though, their all done. Routering out around the sono is a little scary also,.Thank God for trim bits.

Stevenn, I think I'm gonna plunk on the idea of veneering the sub...too much work to be honest

I just caught myself laughing for a few minutes after reading that Sherv, but maybe I should spare you my humor since I've already punished you (in fun) enough. It's definitely work, but I think I actually enjoy it the most minus the co$t. I love the look of veneer when the stain is applied and having to be precision or bust. I don't blame you at all though. There is certainly much easier and more economical ways of dressing up a sub. If I ever do a black PG, then I'll know I have snatched the pebble from the hand.

Call me crazy, but I wonder what a carpeted box sub would look like. I'm not talking shag green carpet or anything like that, but something like the heavy wear carpet or short matte with a color that matches your room or floor. Anybody ever do something like that?

Cant say that I have, but I can see it being a viable option. Heck!.. many want them to blend out of sight and what better way than wrapping it with the same carpet as what's on the floor its sitting on.

[chasw98]

Call me crazy, but I wonder what a carpeted box sub would look like. I'm not talking shag green carpet or anything like that, but something like the heavy wear carpet or short matte with a color that matches your room or floor. Anybody ever do something like that?

Steve:
It looks like a woofer in search of the rest of the PA system for a rock tour. We used the short nap, gray, all weather carpet all the time to cover boxes in. I think parts express or the place Thomas showed me called US speakers, http://www.usspeaker.com/homepage.htm, still carries the style of carpet I am talking about. There is also a whole line of hardware available from rigging hooks and plates, to corners and recessed wheels.

Check here for an example. http://www.speakercity.com/Merchant2...tegory_Code=SP

[SteveCallas]

Do you have any pics of a finished product? The way I'm imagining it, it actually wouldn't look bad at all.

[chasw98]

Do you have any pics of a finished product? The way I'm imagining it, it actually wouldn't look bad at all.

Here is a link to a couple of pictures of speakers with the standard grey carpet.

http://www.happcontrols.com/amusement/jukebox/50998400.htm

They are fairly industrial looking in my opinion. You can envision them with black carpet and I think it would look better in a living room.

[steve nn]

They are fairly industrial looking in my opinion.

It looks like a woofer in search of the rest of the PA system for a rock tour.

I think I'll stick with veneer even though it's not as economical. They look totally pro to me and not well suited for our decor....well what's left of it! In the last few days I have heard the wife refer to my sub as ridicules, stupid, monster and ugly. I cant imagine what expletives I would be hearing if I wrapped it with carpet? :E

[chasw98]

I have to agree. My wife does not want our room to look like the inside of a recording studio! (I wouldn't mind a little bit). But the carpeted speakers are just a little too industrial. They should be with the Snap On roll around tool chest. She said I could have the sonotube but it had to look good. End of discussion.

[steve nn]

She said I could have the sonotube but it had to look good.

For some reason I think the sono's look good with the black covering. I've had up to three at a time and a total of five and never thought of them as industrial. I do admit that the pics of the veneered projects look absolutely beautiful though. Was that you that you that did one in veneer chasw98. If so could you post a pic?

[chasw98]

Nope, I used automotive headliner material with piano black gloss caps.

[steve nn]

I used automotive headliner material with piano black gloss caps.

You forced me to go dig it (pic) up. Looks really nice along with your response...very nice

I guess I better try to make a little progress even though I really don't feel like it today.

[chasw98]

Be careful, it won't feel the love and might move to the kitchen this time. I bet that thing could have a voracious appetite!

[steve nn]

Be careful, it won't feel the love and might move to the kitchen this time. I bet that thing could have a voracious appetite!

Yikes! Lol...If my wife came home and that thing was in the kitchen.:E I sure woke up with one though, appetite that is. I wound up working on it for a couple hrs and then slept a couple hrs. Hu! It looks like I woke up just in time for bed.8O

[steve nn]

I'll tell you guys something...It's one thing to veneer a 4 cu ft enclosure and another to veneer a 22 cu ft enclosure. Just thought I would share my thought for the day... it's free anyway:roll:

[WillyD]

HURRY UP STEVE! I want to read about your experience with the sub once you have it hooked up. :B


;x(

[steve nn]

I'm working on it Willy. I took a pic just to show what a mess I have going. WAF is a little low right now, but I had to listen to it before committing to the veneer. I sure aint goanna haul it back out to the garage though. The pic was taken a few days ago.. so more progress has been made. Actually the staining starts today and then the differently toned stripe down the middle tomorrow... then I'll have to varathane. Come to think of it, do you like to sand? :lol:

[WillyD]

I'd sand for a few beers.