Large.. Dual 15" RL-p Unit

[ssabripo]

this is an excellent thread indeed!!! great job so far Stevenn....it's coming out very nicely

can't wait to power this sucker up and see how much pressure it builds!!! LOL!

[steve nn]

Thanks guys. I'm really short on time so I'll have much more detail and pics tomorrow. It was a battle getting it into the house, but with some help from the neighbor, it worked out quite nicely.

Bottom line..This sub was worth all the trouble it took to work with such large panels. The bass is absolutely exquisite! Great job in simming it out Steve C..it's a KEEPER! That 10" port is doing just what it should and then some. :T

Oh! I also Thank you guys for calling me on the bracing..better safe than sorry, regardless how pooped a guy gets. It's solid and performs as such.

[SteveCallas]

Any preliminary ideas on finishing options? I've got to tell you, this effort of yours made me take out the tape measure, move some things around, and finish up some end caps. As soon as I figure out a way to comfortably fit it in the living room, sub #2 will be born. Gotta love it :T

[---k---]

Brother Stevenn,
Wow, impressive. I'm looking forward to the inroom shots. I tried to keep my tape measure out of my hand as much as possible this weekend.

Brother Callas,
You cutting your own endcaps this time, or are you still having them done on a C/C?

[SteveCallas]

I'm looking forward to the inroom shots

Heck yeah, I'm envisioning this as small refrigerator sized :E

You cutting your own endcaps this time, or are you still having them done on a C/C?

I had all the pieces cut for two subs originally with the CNC - they have just been laying around until now. Basically I "prepped" them so they aren't just pieces of MDF anymore, they are finished end caps waiting for paint.

[Ilkka]

Wow Steve! Impressive looking sub. If I would live any closer, I would come over and we would run a full battery of GP tests on that beast. 8O

[steve nn]

can't wait to power this sucker up and see how much pressure it builds!!! LOL!

I don't know what it'll put out yet but I do know it's substantial that's for sure. I hadn't planned on finishing it until this Fri or Sat but I decided to put a couple hrs into it before church on Sun..one thing lead to another and I was a goner for the rest of the day...the wife just wrote me off. I think it was around 4:00 or so when I was ready to fire it up after a quick calibration. Each driver is doing it's chore with 6dB of gain each way.

If you have two bathroom scales, you can set part of the box on each, you then just add the two weights together.

I thought that was cute. Are you sure though? I'll have to buy another scale just for this, it'll be worth it.

Just curious, how come you could only get one side panel out of one 4x8' sheet of MDF?

It's 50" H and I wanted the front to be a solid panel. One per sheet not counting what I used for bracing of course.

Any preliminary ideas on finishing options?

I think I have some ideas which include Cherry veneer and incorporating solid Cherry (two tone) with painting the back black. I'm open to suggestions though. I also might come up with something different for the sides??

sub #2 will be born. Gotta love it

Hey-hey hey!.. here we go again. Do you think dual will do it though? If memory serves me correct II think you still have another 18" stashed away? That'll be fun! 8)

I'm looking forward to the inroom shots. I tried to keep my tape measure out of my hand as much as possible this weekend.

We're going to break you down br Ryan..time is tearing at yah!. I'll be there laughing when you do and might I add, giving you a little dish of guff.:lol: I have a couple in-room shots for you but I wish I would have taken one with it in the doorway. :E

they are finished end caps waiting for paint.

I smell something cookin in the kitchen! :E

Wow Steve! Impressive looking sub. If I would live any closer, I would come over and we would run a full battery of GP tests on that beast.

Hey br Ilkka, Thank you and I do wish you were closer. I can still put you to work if your up to it though?

I just went back to work today so I'm sorry I'm late to the party, but I have to pay my MDF bill.

[---k---]

Wow! Big!

Those photos actually had the opposite effect. I no longer have the desire to get the tape measure out to see if I could fit something like that in my corner. There is just no way!

Now IB on the other hand.....

[Ilkka]

Hey br Ilkka, Thank you and I do wish you were closer. I can still put you to work if your up to it though?

Sure, anything for you. I think those numbers can surpass everything you have had previously.

Although the enclosure is pretty heavy and the bottom area is quite large, but does it rock (no pun intented ) when pushed loud? (probably too early to tell)

[steve nn]

but does it rock (no pun intented ) when pushed loud?

That's a good question and one that I have also. I wouldn't expect it to take out my past three 25-31CS+'s up in the higher regions, but from what I can tell so far from my two hr preliminary..it's no slouch. The amp could possibly be the limiting factor with running both sides? It took a good amount to bottom out the last sub, but the EP2500 was up to the task. Now whether it can do it dual or not I don't know? Up in the higher regions..I would be happy if it could do 114-15dB on the Fly-by??

[ThomasW]

Doesn't look that heavy to me...... :roflmao:

Be careful with that picture window so close by...... 8O

[steve nn]

I was able to do the Fly-by and made it up to +2 MV before the neighbor came over..I guess she just made it home from work and started her evening out with putting the kibosh on my little test. :roll:

At -2, I was hitting 110dB with no compression referencing my prior readings, so I went ahead and did a 4dB gain in MV to +2 over reference ant hit 114dB. Still no compression! I know It has at least a couple more dB in her from the resulting readings prior to 114dB. I'm wagering around 116 to 17 now. Very impressive considering other options including higher tuned subs I have measured in my leaky 2880 cu ft room. Now this is a 30-50hz scene!..in it's home territory 15??-25 Hz, I have no idea what it could do?

[steve nn]

Doesn't look that heavy to me......

Well that's because your so big Thomas. I know your just playing but I've seen some of your projects and I seriously couldn't imagine you really being impressed with much out there. I dont say that in a bad way, it's totally understandable! That's why we call you Father Thomas..well I do.:lol:

[SteveCallas]

WOW, that is simply awesome! Brings a tear to my eye - WAF be damned. ---k---, you can try to resist, but you are staring your destiny right in the face :B

Steve, the design is amp limited until below ~14.3hz, so unless you see the clipping lights, you still have more to go. If you are getting any room gain at all, I think you should be able to break 120db. Anything noticable coming out of the port or is it smooth sailing? The difference between two 6's and one 10 was pretty substantial.

Any thoughts of putting some kind of legs on it or foam under it to try and reduce direct transmission to the floor? That's a pretty large flat surface on the bottom, but who knows, it may be desirable.....like a massage :T

[---k---]

Steve,
That thing even surpasses WAF. I just couldn't bring myself to put that in my room. (Stevenn, please don't take offense to that, it is the most beatiful sub I've ever seen. )

Last I dreamt, I figure I could go as high as my pony wall, which is 43" high, so maybe 36x24x43 total. And, I wanted to think of some way to build two seperate boxes so I could have some hope of moving them myself. Maybe I could make that work, but having seen what a no-size-compromises enclosure looks like, I couldn't bring myself to build less.

I just need to start lusting after an IB and figure out a way to talk the wife into that. It would be so much easier than screwing with these boxes.

I really need to stop coming here! The Steve's have me wanting to build bigger subs, and Thomas is making me want to play with power conditioners. And I really need to build a new entertainment center to house them.....



Good fun.

[steve nn]

If you are getting any room gain at all, I think you should be able to break 120db.

Possibly, but my room is fairly leaky. I was definitely excited about what it could do with absolutely no compression though...just as smooth as can be.

Anything noticable coming out of the port or is it smooth sailing? The difference between two 6's and one 10 was pretty substantial.

I'm definitely impressed! No worry about the port although I had my concerns. It's secured rock solid and it's staying. If there was a problem..the top would be cut off pronto...you know I would. It's Ultra smooth and one well behaved port I assure you. The word chuff isn't in it's vocabulary.

That's a pretty large flat surface on the bottom, but who knows, it may be desirable.....like a massage :T

I know isn't it great. For HT it's perfect..heck for music also. I never really did understand the concept of a sub dude. I guess if you have a sloppy room or a sloppy sub, one could be required.:P

[dyazdani]

I was able to do the Fly-by and made it up to +2 MV before the neighbor came over..

I must have missed it somewhere, but what is the "fly-by?" Is it the beginning of SW Episode 3- I'm just guessing... :huh:

[steve nn]

I must have missed it somewhere, but what is the "fly-by?" Is it the beginning of SW Episode 3- I'm just guessing...

No it's at about the 2:00 time stamp in SW II.. it's when the first cruiser fly's by. This is a scene that I have used in the past for a little reference along with the Ring drop in LOTR on a few of the subs I have had..

Steve,That thing even surpasses WAF. I just couldn't bring myself to put that in my room. (Stevenn, please don't take offense to that, it is the most beatiful sub I've ever seen.

Trust me no offence taken, I totally understand. Not to many guys running around that would do such a thing and maybe one wife in a 1000 that would let a guy do it in the first place. I know it's extreme, but no apologies from my side of the fence. Beautiful! .. it still needs some work, but I hope to make it look presentable anyway.

Maybe I could make that work, but having seen what a no-size-compromises enclosure looks like, I couldn't bring myself to build less.

That last sub I built at 6.5 cu ft 20 X 39 X 20 is a hoot! If you scaled it back to something like this with going dual, you would have all the bass you could handle I promise! Heck just the single is more than plenty for most. Very easy to move on your own and a good tune coming in at around 17 Hz. I really thought highly of that sub , but then you do have the dual drivers. :T

I just need to start lusting after an IB and figure out a way to talk the wife into that. It would be so much easier than screwing with these boxes.

No doubt about it if you have a good location that you know would give you a good response.

I really need to stop coming here!

It doesn't help does it. We are who we are though. :agree:

[chasw98]

Stevenn, beautiful job. I bet it sounds just wonderful. Little Willy is gettin' all worked up just thinking about the pressure coming out of that. I have to agree with Ryan. I have to stop coming here cause I want to start a new project. But the Force keeps calling me. Wish I could come over and hear it.

[steve nn]

Hey Chuck,

Lets see you built a beautiful sonotube if I'm not mistaken, correct? You have to be sitting pretty darn good yourself. I don't think I want to ask little Willy about it though.

[chasw98]

Hey Chuck,

Lets see you built a beautiful sonotube if I'm not mistaken, correct? You have to be sitting pretty darn good yourself. I don't think I want to ask little Willy about it though.

But you know "The more the merrier!". Trying to talk the wife into a second one to even out the room................ (but I secretly want an IB like Ryan does) :T Probably towards the end of summer when it gets cool enough to go up in the attic again and the market has some more options to choose from. Except for the Rl-p's there is not much to choose from these days. But I do love the look of those dual 15's in your living room. A pair of those might resemble a miniature Grateful Dead show!

[steve nn]

(but I secretly want an IB like Ryan does) Probably towards the end of summer when it gets cool enough to go up in the attic again and the market has some more options to choose from.

Hoooold it! Now I didn't read that. Not for at least two years or I'll loose my wager. Relapse is out of the vocabulary! 8)

Except for the Rl-p's there is not much to choose from these days.

What's the deal with that anyway? I just don't get it..not enough profit?

But I do love the look of those dual 15's in your living room. A pair of those might resemble a miniature Grateful Dead show!

ha ha..well I do have that other port.:E

Seriously though, Thank you for your compliments Chuck. :T

[SteveCallas]

Except for the Rl-p's there is not much to choose from these days.

What's the deal with that anyway? I just don't get it..not enough profit?

Talk about having the right product at the right time. I don't know how much DIY HT users account for their sales of the RLp15, but from that group of customers, and what seems like an explosion of projects over the last few months, they sure cleaned up pretty nice. Not that they don't deserve it, because it is a high quality driver, but when you have no competition, it's that much easier.

[Mark Seaton]

Talk about having the right product at the right time. I don't know how much DIY HT users account for their sales of the RLp15, but from that group of customers, and what seems like an explosion of projects over the last few months, they sure cleaned up pretty nice. Not that they don't deserve it, because it is a high quality driver, but when you have no competition, it's that much easier.

Stop and actually take a count at how many drivers were sold of those you see. Remember that in small communities, everything seems bigger than if compared to the outside world. I think many would be surprised how little volume there really is in the DIY market. How many *different* people and projects do we really see here.

That's not to say it can't be justified in a business, just that it cannot be a single source of revinue. Supply issues from various builders have made for the lack of supply, and DIY suppliers will usually be more succeptable to such issues as they don't do the volume to have the options larger OEM's do. Let's also face the fact that a large majority of DIYers are cheap! The realities of diminishing returns makes for a tough sell on higher performance products. The case of the RL-p15 is interesting in that it has been one of the few available products for those looking for a somewhat premium offering.

[FlashJim]

I hate you people. You make me want to build obnoxious things.

[SteveCallas]

Well again, considering the market of DIY HT users, they cleaned up nice. In that market, they probably sold 3-4x as many drivers as they would have if any real competition were out there. Whether that is 40 drivers or 400 doesn't matter.

[ThomasW]

Other than the RL-p15", there's been a dearth of good 15" drivers for quite sometime. John J hasn't been much of a factor. Adire hasn't had any product. Ascendant just started shipping their new products. Oaudio doesn't have a 15". PE hasn't offered a higher excursion driver, and the European mfgr's just don't offer competitive pricing or products.

At the 2004 RMAF I talked with Dan Wiggins. He stated that DIY audio accounted for only 5% of their total sales

[ssabripo]

.... Except for the Rl-p's there is not much to choose from these days. ...

oh I beg to differ....and I'm sure you will agree as well, since you've been side by side with my sub.

Just got an email from John at AE saying he has a couple of AV15's available at, get this, $150 for me! :T :E ;x(

that's probably the most insane bargain, bang for buck, of any driver available today...... you pick one up, I pick the other one, and maybe we can have some fun this summer....whatcha think? :W

[---k---]

Maybe we should build an RL-P15 family tree.

[ssabripo]

Well again, considering the market of DIY HT users, they cleaned up nice. In that market, they probably sold 3-4x as many drivers as they would have if any real competition were out there. Whether that is 40 drivers or 400 doesn't matter.

my theory on this is timing....

about the same time that we've had the current rash of DIY's using a single long throw 15" driver (chuck, ryan, steve, bob, myself.....among others), is when the Adire offerings were in transition, John J at AE was going thru personal and business turmoil, etc, etc........that left Soundsplinter with basically the small DIY market for itself pretty much.

Heck, it took John and Deon 2 months to ship my AV15...at one point I considered just punting on it, and going rl-p15 as well, but stuck with it......and VERY glad I did.

No question the SS offering is making a killing, and it obviously delivers the advertised performance, but I think there will be some new players taking a nice cut from its current "monopoly". AA is already taking orders on their avalanche 15" prelim price, adire is starting to stock up on their new tumult and brahmas, TC is pushing for their new distributors, and as I said, AEspeakers has a few AV15s available at under $200, with more in the making, making it THE most attractive driver for the price.

but yes, talk about being at the right place at the right time.....Soundsplinter made (and is making) a killing! :P

As I told chuck though, at normal price, the AV15 is a better buy than the RL-P15(pretty much identical performance at cheaper price), and now at this $150 price for this few left, it is a KO..

but that's just my not so humble opinion...hehehehe :lol:

[FlashJim]

As I told chuck though, at normal price, the AV15 is a better buy than the RL-P15(pretty much identical performance at cheaper price), and now at this $150 price for this few left, it is a KO..

Got a link?

[ThomasW]

Got a link?

Unfortunately John J's website has been down for several days.

[FlashJim]

Unfortunately John J's website has been down for several days.

I did some digging and I came up with some cached versions of it. The AV15 was $180 in the versions I saw. Could I call and get the $150 price?

[ssabripo]

Got a link?

no...his site is down at the moment. But email him...he is checking his emails.

[SteveCallas]

AA is already taking orders on their avalanche 15" prelim price, adire is starting to stock up on their new tumult and brahmas, TC is pushing for their new distributors, and as I said, AEspeakers has a few AV15s available at under $200, with more in the making, making it THE most attractive driver for the price.

To me, it doesn't look like the AA 15s can compete and the Tumults are too expensive - two SS or AVs for the same or less cost will easily outperform a Tumult. I don't know anything about TC's new drivers.

As for the AV15, I agree, at $150 or even at the original $190, that is the biggest bang for the buck - it models almost identically to the RLp15. You should just buy both at $150 and build two more subs - seriously.

[ssabripo]

To me, it doesn't look like the AA 15s can compete and the Tumult's are too expensive - two SS or AVs for the same or less cost will easily outperform a Tumult. I don't know anything about TC's new drivers.

As for the AV15, I agree, at $150 or even at the original $190, that is the biggest bang for the buck - it models almost identically to the RLp15. You should just buy both at $150 and build two more subs - seriously.

Some good news (for me) and bad news: John finally responded and said he had 3 of them, and is keeping them for replacements in case, until his new batch is done in production.....BUT, he said he would honor his word and sell me at least one for $150 as promised. ops:

I'm pretty sure the Ultra will be sold now....I'm gonna build the second AV15 and just be done..plenty of bass to shake the house at that point! :T

I gotta finish the Center channel first with Chuck, and then maybe early summer go at it! :W

[FlashJim]

Bummer. I was ready to jump on that.

I got my email from John and he said he has parts for 50, but no time to assemble.

[ThomasW]

I got my email from John and he said he has parts for 50, but no time to assemble

That makes no sense, that's how he makes his living....??????

[steve nn]

Let's also face the fact that a large majority of DIYers are cheap!

I guess you hit the nail on the head there Mark thinking back of all the times I've seen a guy fret over a few $$ in factoring out a project. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but there are a good many of us who have spent our fare share of hard earned cash with other companies. I think the attraction in part.. is the savings DIY affords a person, but then some of us really enjoy anything that has to do with subs. DIY seems to fall right in line with.. ok what next?

I'm pretty sure the Ultra will be sold now....I'm gonna build the second AV15 and just be done..plenty of bass to shake the house at that point!

I think thats the way to go Sherv. You gave it your best shot, but whats a guy to do? Sure they can be mixed, but we both know it's no where close to being optimal. Heck that would even fund your center at the same time!:E Since your so darn cheap, it ought to be very apealing :B (just playing Mark)

my theory on this is timing....

I agree! If there would have been more to pick from who knows what I would have wound up with? I tried the AV15 out three or four years ago, so that left me with the RL-p. As things go, it all worked out great, but Thank goodness it's a quality driver. It only stands to reason if there were more to pick from.. we would be seeing much more diversity in projects.

Not that they don't deserve it, because it is a high quality driver, but when you have no competition, it's that much easier.

Yip! I can think of a certain 18" driver that I have been admiring for some time. If I ever build up??? I'll swap the 15"s for the 18" and get out the..

[steve nn]

That makes no sense, that's how he makes his living....??????

It seems like he has always had some kind of time issue from my recollection?? I'm not being sarcastic, but it does seem like he has had plenty to deal with over the yrs??

[SteveCallas]

Yip! I can think of a certain 18" driver that I have been admiring for some time. If I ever build up??? I'll swap the 15"s for the 18" and get out the..

Not if I see it first Three is already insane, but why should I leave an open amp channel and an extra piece of tube laying around, right? Makes sense in my head at least :twisted:

[steve nn]

Do you really think you might go quad? Now that would be out there..four 18"s! Dual 18"s would be just my cup of tea.

Makes sense in my head at least

I like your logic Steve, it helps in making me not look so obsessed. No seriously Im goanna run this for at least two yrs. I don't know why I'm saying that, but that's what I wanna do. I think this thing might have actually slain the beast within and it'll take that long to go through all my disks. None the same, dual 18"s would be quite a treat..would have to pick up another amp though. one day at a time

[chasw98]

, but why should I leave an open amp channel and an extra piece of tube laying around, right? Makes sense in my head at least :twisted:

I'm right there with you. I've got some tube taking up space in the garage that would look much better covered in black in my living room :T

[SteveCallas]

Do you really think you might go quad?

Yes, if another Avalanche 18 pops up on the market for a reasonable price, I'll jump on it.

I like your logic Steve, it helps in making me not look so obsessed. No seriously Im goanna run this for at least two yrs. I don't know why I'm saying that, but that's what I wanna do. I think this thing might have actually slain the beast within and it'll take that long to go through all my disks.

I'm fairly certain your sub doesn't really leave anything else to be desired. I'm only interested in building more because it's fun, they look cool, and I'd like to do a variety of bass experiments.....and let's face it, having the ability to move 26 liters of air per stroke is f'n insane :T

[FlashJim]

That makes no sense, that's how he makes his living....??????

I gathered that he had spare parts to make 50 of the old style. I think there is a new version and that's what has his attention. Did that (my explanation) make any sense?

I was kind of excited about getting one of the AV15s. The specs looked great from what little I know.

I keep checking out that insane dual RL-P15. Daddy likes ... :twisted: