Dual RL-p15 D2 driver DIY..

[steve nn]

I think Ilkka might have hit the nail on the head in my thread when he asked what the FR response looks like. I got such a big, wide null at my seat, that just shifts around going forward or backwards. I think I'm calibrating in a null, and getting a lot more SPL at certain frequencies than I realize

I really feel for you Ryan. You must know how well liked you are and how we're rooting for you. What your up against there is beyond me except trying out the fold-up wall panel behind seating I suggested awhile back. I understand the dilemma though. Your two subs setup correctly can and will give you all the quality bass that you might have dreamed of, but if your room isn't agreeing with placement....Your idea regarding Mark is worth every penny, with his suggestion (be sure your wife is there) I bet things might take a big turn and with your wife onboard to boot!

I'm not to the point yet where I fully understand the Bassis.

You know Ryan I don't know squat about the BASSIS as would Ilkka or Thomas. I don't think I really care to, but I do want more of a understanding and in what Ilkka did. I just received a mail from him (Ilkka) and I guess he has been speaking with another (who I also really respect bass wise) and we'll be fine tuning a little more in the future. I'll be sure to get Ilkka to post graphs for you in regards to no BASSIS and BASSIS though. I guess what I'm trying to get across is I'm hoping you don't go the sub hunt rout when your problem is the room itself and what you need to add to your subs to reach their full potential.

Never have I felt my hair move, like I did with the Contra.

Your subs, setup correctly in the same room would give you the same effect and I'll wager you would love every minute of it.

[ThomasW]

Never have I felt my hair move, like I did with the Contra.

No problem. Just set the subs on tables, one on each side of your chair (subwoofer headphones), then turn the volume to "11"...... :roflmao:

Seriously you should be able to get very close once this null thing is fixed

BTW can you place one sub behind the listening position?

[---k---]

Did I ever tell you guys about the time I was trying to see how much my box vibrated? I was squating right in front of the driver watching a glass with water in it ontop of the box, and the amp was set to "11" with Blue Man Group playing. Lets just say, I had to move!

[SteveCallas]

Did I ever tell you guys about the time I was trying to see how much my box vibrated?

Wow man, that just didn't come out right :B You were trying to see how much your "enclosure" vibrated. I know, I'm an ass. :

[steve nn]

Of course not forgetting Soundsplinter drivers.

Well said and definitely not to forget.

So you have now 4 dB boost, right? It is not much, but if it sounds good, I'm fine with it. Of course you could try something like 12 dB, but I think it would became a little bit too bottom heavy. Of course it puts more load on the amps too.

Yes 4dB. In viewing the material at around -12 -14, it presented no problem at all. I have plenty of headroom from the scenes I replayed with keeping a eye on the drivers and the clip lights. The subs feel and sound as bottom heavy (gave that some thought while viewing) as I think that I would like, but stepping it up a notch is always worth trying out if it doesn't negate SQ. At the level I just spoke of though, I was getting total linier bass that was sure to get a knock on the door from past experience in the early evening.

I would be interested to see the frequency response too. In the seats of course. You could also test if FBQ is causing any degrade in SQ? Just put it online, but don't do any corrections. I think at least Craig and Patrick (avaholic) have commented that they could hear the old BFD with their Maestros. FBQ should have better circuits, but who knows?

Well I made three or four changes at once trying to address it and it did improve. It was still there to a small degree just the straight amp driving things though. Maybe I was experiencing a little harshness from the amp that I have heard of in the past from a few others??

I would be interested to see the frequency response too. In the seats of course.

Yeah! I want to see a few graphs...all words and no graphs gets kind of boring no? Do you think we ought to stack these DIY RL-p up against some other graphs we have laying around? :spin:

[Ilkka]

Yes 4dB. In viewing the material at around -12 -14, it presented no problem at all. I have plenty of headroom from the scenes I replayed with keeping a eye on the drivers and the clip lights. The subs feel and sound as bottom heavy (gave that some thought while viewing) as I think that I would like, but stepping it up a notch is always worth trying out if it doesn't negate SQ. At the level I just spoke of though, I was getting total linier bass that was sure to get a knock on the door from past experience in the early evening.

Uh oh, the evil knock. I can't help you with that thing, that's something YOU have to deal with. :

Well I made three or four changes at once trying to address it and it did improve. It was still there to a small degree just the straight amp driving things though. Maybe I was experiencing a little harshness from the amp that I have heard of in the past from a few others??

Umm, so you noticed that FBQ made it a little bit worse? Can you describe the harshness? Is it like distortion, boom, what?

Yeah! I want to see a few graphs...all words and no graphs gets kind of boring no? Do you think we ought to stack these DIY RL-p up against some other graphs we have laying around? :spin:

Well it depends how badly you want to embarrass them? :g> :rofl:

[roadrash]

Thanks for the link.
"roadrash" comes from my interest in motorcycles. :B
I was wondering if you could explain the sound of the woofer you used,
being a former SVS ultra owner do you notice that kinda different type of sound out the the soundsplinter, You know that hard to explain difference that people talk about when comparing the SVS tv-12 driver in the ultra to the db12 driver in the plus series.
I was wondering if there was that same kind of hard to explain difference
between the Soundsplinter and the TV-12 driver, ex: more effortless, fuller
less strained are some of the things ive seen posted as being better between the SVS drivers.
Does the Soundsplinter exhibit those better qualities over the TV-12?.

[Ilkka]

Thanks for the link.
"roadrash" comes from my interest in motorcycles. :B
I was wondering if you could explain the sound of the woofer you used,
being a former SVS ultra owner do you notice that kinda different type of sound out the the soundsplinter, You know that hard to explain difference that people talk about when comparing the SVS tv-12 driver in the ultra to the db12 driver in the plus series.
I was wondering if there was that same kind of hard to explain difference
between the Soundsplinter and the TV-12 driver, ex: more effortless, fuller
less strained are some of the things ive seen posted as being better between the SVS drivers.
Does the Soundsplinter exhibit those better qualities over the TV-12?.

I think we should remember that those desings are totally different. Other is big vented box tuned to 16/20 Hz, others are low Q sealed 15" subs. It would be hard if not possible to exclude all the other factors and look at (listen) only the difference in drivers. For example Steve has now incredible amounts (think +120 dB @ 1 m) of mid and upper bass headroom, which was kinda limited with the SVS's.

[steve nn]

For example Steve has now incredible amounts (think +120 dB @ 1 m) of mid and upper bass headroom, which was kinda limited with the SVS's.

I think that's a pretty good assessment excluding I have some very nice low FR output and especially in how they come across with the new BASSIS settings. I fail to believe that one of these would outdo a PB12-Ultra in the 16 Hz tune down in the lower region as far as max SPL goes. I will say I have been told that the sealed RL-p will do so or that it should be very close anyway. Time will give me a better idea, but I doubt if I could ever be sure with the limited tests I've done in the past.

talk about when comparing the SVS tv-12 driver in the ultra to the db12 driver in the plus series.

I have had all the drivers and can tell you they're all to be respected in what SVS has achieved with them. There is a difference, but the gap in performance changes as each driver goes through its cycle.

Does the Soundsplinter exhibit those better qualities over the TV-12?.

That's a good question to be sure...it's going to take much more time to fully answer that though. Very limited exposer coupled with never choosing to use the eq to any long term extent with the Ultra's. I seriously doubt I'll be using the FBQ with the RL-p's for that matter though...time will tell,.. I might plug in a different curve for different MV levels? I don't believe my curve is as high as it was without the BASSIS and admittedly I want a curve for HT. In short for now, all I can really say is from what I experienced yesterday, it's all there and I have no regrets as much as liked my Ultra's. I never really expected to take them out SPL wise, but after experiencing the ACI Maestro, I was looking for a little more precision with the headroom two sealed units of this caliber could offer. Bottom line is it's a different aproach is all.

[Mark Seaton]

Hi Guys, just caught this thread.

Mark is convinced that it is the amp clipping.

It sounds like that from your description. I think the problem is the placement. I doubt that a more powerful amp is going to do very much.

My comment to Ryan on Saturday should possibly be clarified. What Ryan is hearing is amp clipping. A bigger/better amp could add anywhere from 2-6dB of program headroom, but it does sound like the placement of the subs and the listening position in the room is making this problem happen at lower levels than might be expected. Thomas's joke about flanking your seats with the subs isn't that far from the truth. If the locations are fixed, you need more power. I think some investigation of measuring the subwoofer's response at different locations while holding the amp level the same so you can see what the relative differences are.

[Mark Seaton]

The other amazing thing to me, was it was loud, but not ear hurting loud. The entire system had been calibrated by Mark Seaton. It constisted of one Contrabass and B&W floorstanders. No room treatments or anything like that - only about 10 guys . From what I understand, the demos were being played at a MV = 4. Mark really likes his bass, and the home owner had turned the sub level down 3db from where Mark set it, but Mark said that he bumped it back up 1 or 2db for the demo. So, we were listening at pretty high levels, but it sounded great. My hair was moving, my pants were slightly flapping, and you could feel it in your butt. But, I didn't walk away with my ears hurting or even really feeling like it was too loud.

The room wasn't terribly large, and the ContraBass was powered with ~1500W from a Crown K1. I checked one of the measurements I had saved from Bryan's room, and the response was +/-3dB down to 15Hz with an overall rise of 4-5dB from about 70Hz down to the low 20s. The response was only -8dB at 14Hz from the maximum in the low 20s. The sub is quite capable in his room, but with the slightly hot setting the K1 was occasionally clipping on some scenes with the EQ employed at reference level (MV=0dB). Fortunately his Anthem AVM-30 has a subwoofer limiting function that we could engage for the absolute loudest peaks. This basically allowed us a no worry situation where some tracks could induce clipping at -3 to 0dB playback levels. Bryan later turned the sub level down about 3dB on his own. When I got there later in the evening, I temporarily bumped it back up for the last few demos.

The point here is just to give some points of reference to what you were listening to. Most of what we played when I was there was at -5 to 0dB on the main volume, more often closer to -2 or 0dB. While it didn't sound terribly loud, the need for treatment in the room was one of the reasons it was subjectively a bit loud when pushing past -5 to -3dB on some of the louder demo tracks. In fact acoustic treatments will be Bryan's next upgrade to his room. While the pair of sealed RL-p15s at full tilt will be quite impressive, they will still be a noticable amount short of the 1500W powered ContraBass until below 15Hz.

I don't get this from my subs. My subs are loud. If something goes bang, there is plenty of bang there. They actually seem like they have more punch in kick drums and stuff like that than the Contra. But they don't have any of the real down low rumble. Never have I felt my hair move, like I did with the Contra.

The frequency response of the Contra vs. your sub and it's relative level to the mains is mostly responsible for the differences you note, along with the greater headroom of Bryan's system and subwoofer. Emphasis of the upper bass range will tend to make things sound "punchier" like kick drums up to a point where the sound starts to go downhill.

[Ilkka]

While the pair of sealed RL-p15s at full tilt will be quite impressive, they will still be a noticable amount short of the 1500W powered ContraBass until below 15Hz.

Care to share some more? I just looked the simulation and I got 117-122 dB @ 1 m at 30 Hz and above for dual Soundsplinters in a 7.6 cu ft box with 750 Watts. Is Contrabass much stronger than this?

[---k---]

Thanks for the clarifications Mark.

[Mark Seaton]

Care to share some more? I just looked the simulation and I got 117-122 dB @ 1 m at 30 Hz and above for dual Soundsplinters in a 7.6 cu ft box with 750 Watts. Is Contrabass much stronger than this?

Sorry, late night posting... The dual RL-p15s should compare in maximum output above some higher frequency, as the ContraBass also employs a pair of 15" driven cones. The 'p15s might even edge it out a tad above 40-50Hz, but they do have radically different distortion and thermal characteristics. In the 15-30Hz range, the ContraBass is significantly more efficient, and the pair of 18" passives makes for a lot more air movement capability. Depending on frequency, I would guess the max output difference to be 3-5dB with a lot less input voltage. 4 sealed 'p15s would certainly start to overtake the Contra.

[---k---]

You know Mark, if you could free up some time in that schedule of your's; you could come over and change that "should" and "might" to a solid "does" or "doesn't".

My house and system is alway available for abusing.

[Mark Seaton]

But, I also got to hear another 15" sealed sub, (I don't think I can say much more about it at this point). It was really impressive also, but in a much smaller room. But, it was able to acheive the same hair moving, low rumbles that that Contra did. It wasn't quite in the same league, but was really impressive for the HT demo. I put in Bella Fleck, and I have to say that mine sounded a lot better here - like it had more punch. But, it hadn't be in the room more than 1/2 hour at this point, and no effort was made to find the best spot for it. After a little more listening, it got moved and the equalizer adjusted. I wasn't able to seriously listen to it after that.

Hi Ryan,

I wanted to point this example out since it is a perfect example that is similar to your own problems. There's nothing terribly secret about the sub I brought (otherwise I wouldn't have brought it to a small internet G2G ). The only reason I've held off info is to keep the nuts **cough "AVS" cough*** from sending me weekly e-mails asking when it will be done. Note that your SoundSplinter drivers are in a bigger box and have a little more volume displacement. I probably have a little more power available from the plate amp I'm using, but not a lot.

For those following along, we brought the sub into the store that hosted the second part of the G2G at the time everyone got there. This was a super-quick and crude setup on a sub/amp combo that hadn't seen much listening beyond the outdoor testing since I switched amps. Very much thrown to the fire in front of the group. The pre-processor was a really quirky unit with fairly limited features. There was no EQ applied to the in-room response. The sub was adjusted for the target response outdoors. After playing a few clips at high levels, I shifted the anechoic low corner up a little bit from where I started as I knew it was a bit on the aggressive side and there was an impedance mismatch with the amp and drivers.

I believe you were in the room when we were noting that the kick and power of the bottom end was really lacking, even though there was plenty of deep stuff. We grabbed the store's Sencore RTA and quickly noted that the current location resulted in a rather wide, 15-20dB null in the 40-60Hz range. Moving the sub to another location on the front wall actually resulted in a pretty reasonable curve and this region was only recessed by maybe 5dB vs. the previous "black hole" effect we noted. After making that change and playing with the crossover to the mains a bit the result got noticably better. This is exactly what you have to do in your own system. While I didn't bother to pull out my TEF and test it more specifically, the sealed roll-off below ~20Hz did couple into the room rather nicely, which is what was allowed the low frequency effects to deliver as they did. As others have shown, this doesn't happen in every room, nor for every placement.

[steve nn]

Emphasis of the upper bass range will tend to make things sound "punchier" like kick drums up to a point where the sound starts to go downhill.

This in part has been my concern with Ryan in not being able to pull the response down. If his room is stacked against him along with not utilizing the BASSIS (or other form of eq), I don't see how things can improve to the degree that could be achieved null or not. I know with certainty me being used to dual vented low tuned (16 Hz) subs, that I couldn't be totally happy otherwise.

Care to share some more? I just looked the simulation and I got 117-122 dB @ 1 m at 30 Hz and above for dual Soundsplinters in a 7.6 cu ft box with 750 Watts.

Any chance of doing a simulation of the same with 750 watts (to each) driver at 20 Hz and maybe 15 Hz while your at it? I wrote it down a few weeks ago (I can do it again) the output that a single RL-p was achieving at 15 Hz 11' away, wasn't what I would call week by no means.

4 sealed 'p15s would certainly start to overtake the Contra.

I've heard so much about the Contra, but have never had the opportunity to experience it. I could not imagine ever going with four 'p15s (with BASSIS) though, open room or not! :E

[steve nn]

But, I also got to hear another 15" sealed sub, (I don't think I can say much more about it at this point). It was really impressive also, but in a much smaller room. But, it was able to acheive the same hair moving, low rumbles that that Contra did. It wasn't quite in the same league, but was really impressive for the HT demo. I put in Bella Fleck, and I have to say that mine sounded a lot better here - like it had more punch. But, it hadn't be in the room more than 1/2 hour at this point, and no effort was made to find the best spot for it. After a little more listening, it got moved and the equalizer adjusted. I wasn't able to seriously listen to it after that.

Hu! I wonder how I missed that... I surely would have understood the implications. I've been watching for you to move along in your endeavor Mark, and am sure what ever you come up with ,will be worthy I don't doubt.

[---k---]

Yeah, I was able to get close enough to the Sencore during your before measurements, and I saw the big black hole at 40-60hz. I didn't get to see the it after the move. And, for some reason, I don't have a memory of the sound after it got moved. Guess I should have been taking better notes. I do remember watching you and Dave listen, look at each other and say that the cross over or something wasn't right, you play with the processor, then you and Dave saying that it was much better, and me not being able to tell much of a differance. Left me wondering if you and Dave were crazy or if my ears are defective.

Yeah, I need to play with room placement. Will try and do on Saturday.

Can you (or anyone) easily explain this:

I shifted the anechoic low corner up a little bit from where I started as I knew it was a bit on the aggressive side and there was an impedance mismatch with the amp and drivers.

I know that you were getting a little clipping on your amp. Is this refering to a LT circuit? Too much boost down low sucking up too much amp, causing clipping?

[Ilkka]

Any chance of doing a simulation of the same with 750 watts (to each) driver at 20 Hz and maybe 15 Hz while your at it? I wrote it down a few weeks ago (I can do it again) the output that a single RL-p was achieving at 15 Hz 11' away, wasn't what I would call week by no means.

Sure, I'm going away for the weekend, but I'll do it as soon as I get back.

[SteveCallas]

Ilkka, when are we going to see you delve into the DIY subwoofer realm?

[steve nn]

Sure, I'm going away for the weekend, but I'll do it as soon as I get back.

Ok we have you slotted for the weekend off then:W... I also have a few FR plots put together, but I don't like my graph program at all.

Ilkka, when are we going to see you delve into the DIY subwoofer realm?

Hey Steve...Lets apply a little muscle slowly, but surely. I think he already has a amp laying around, so I don't think it would take to much for him to churn something out?

[ssabripo]

a little offtopic, but off to home-depot to cut the MDF....whoooohoooo!!

[steve nn]

a little offtopic, but off to home-depot to cut the MDF....whoooohoooo!!

Hold it Sherv! Let me get my shoes on, I'm coming with you.
I'm needing some more MDF myself for a NF placement option that will suffice as a corner table that I cut up for another sub.

I'm really looking forward to seeing what you come up with though! Any chance of a little peak of what your up to? AV15 vented yes? Anyway good for you Sherv. :righton:

[---k---]

I much prefer Lowes.

Hey Steve,
How much does your enclosure vibrate? If you place your hand on top, how much do you feel? Just wondering. I feel a lot more than I expected. Like I said somewhere, if I put a glass with water ontop, the water will splash around. The sub doesn't walk or anything, nor can I see movement, just feel. I don't think there is a problem. But, I think from now on I will recomend to people to use 2 layers of 3/4 instead of the 1/2"+3/4" - unless you tell me that your's is vibration free, then I'll go back to assuming I screwed everything up.

[steve nn]

How much does your enclosure vibrate? If you place your hand on top, how much do you feel?

I don't really feel anything and of course I checked..I guess I lucked out. I did put a extra brace on the back of the last unit because I felt the back wasn't passing the rap test. I'm certainly not telling you..you screwed everything up though. Have you tried putting your hand on the sides and back of the units also?

I have mine stacked and I never need to adjust them after viewing. When I did a Max 15 Hz SPL test, the eq showed a little movement that sits on top of them. At that low FR level I would expect that though with as light as the FBQ is with it sitting on top of the BASSIS..tin against tin.

[---k---]

I don't really feel anything and of course I checked..

grrrrrr... I know it is not a big issue, at most it will be causing a little bit of distortion that I can't hear, but... Well, it is my first attempt. I'm still happy and having fun. In a year if I want to redo the boxes, it isn't that big of a deal. I was just wondering.

[steve nn]

Buying the table saw was a must in my case. I'm not sure how they would have turned out otherwise?? It gave me allot of latitude in adjusting and in making the cuts correct..

[Ilkka]

Ilkka, when are we going to see you delve into the DIY subwoofer realm?

Uh, that happened around 10 years ago when I built my very first sub. It was a 12" JBL woofer. I tried both sealed and vented boxes, but eventually sold it to a friend, who put it in his car. After that there have been quite several of them, a couple 10", one 13", one 15"... Now I'm just visiting the retail side, but I'll come back soon.

[chasw98]

a little offtopic, but off to home-depot to cut the MDF....whoooohoooo!!

Sherv:
Are you really back in town and finally going to build something? Call me and I will come over and help you :T (Just to see what you are up to).....

Chuck

[ssabripo]

Hold it Sherv! Let me get my shoes on, I'm coming with you.
I'm needing some more MDF myself for a NF placement option that will suffice as a corner table that I cut up for another sub.

I'm really looking forward to seeing what you come up with though! Any chance of a little peak of what your up to? AV15 vented yes? Anyway good for you Sherv. :righton:

Wood is cut steve....homedepot guy was very helpfull! I have to get a little more precise by sanding it down before I start glueing this weekend, but yes, I have to take advantage when I'm in town to start chipping away at this project :T

you haven't seen the pics? I posted on the other thread...

https://www.htguide.com/forum/showpost.php?p=236680&postcount=51

Image not available

Sherv:
Are you really back in town and finally going to build something? Call me and I will come over and help you (Just to see what you are up to).....

Chuck

Hey Chuck...yeah man, I'm back this week, and will be gone next monday again ops:

Are you sure? because I may actually take you up on that offer...the more hands (and tools) the merrier.....by any chance, you dont have a router and some bits do ya? :B

[chasw98]

Hey Chuck...yeah man, I'm back this week, and will be gone next monday again ops:

Are you sure? because I may actually take you up on that offer...the more hands (and tools) the merrier.....by any chance, you dont have a router and some bits do ya?

Got 2 routers and 2 brand new Freud upspiral bits just waiting to make sawdust. Plus I got my circle cutting jig standing by. PM me to make arrangements. :T This way i get to see what you are putting together!

[ssabripo]

Got 2 routers and 2 brand new Freud upspiral bits just waiting to make sawdust. Plus I got my circle cutting jig standing by. PM me to make arrangements. :T This way i get to see what you are putting together!

how does this weekend sound? I'll pm you with times, etc, and see if you wanna get together.. My main tasks this weekend:

glue the parts together on saturday afternoon (the front and back plates), and sand the edges to make them flush.

Sunday: 1) cut the holes (this is where your tools come in) and start routing out the cutoff depths, etc., as well as the braces.
2) start glueing the panels together for the enclosure...

:T :B ;x(

[chasw98]

how does this weekend sound? I'll pm you with times, etc, and see if you wanna get together.. My main tasks this weekend:

glue the parts together on saturday afternoon (the front and back plates), and sand the edges to make them flush.

Sunday: 1) cut the holes (this is where your tools come in) and start routing out the cutoff depths, etc., as well as the braces.
2) start glueing the panels together for the enclosure...

:T :B ;x(

Sounds good to me. I'm up for it.

[ssabripo]

Sounds good to me. I'm up for it.

It's done then...I sent a PM reply :T ;x(

see ya this weekend! wooohooo :W

[steve nn]

wood is cut steve....homedepot guy was very helpfull! I have to get a little more precise by sanding it down before I start glueing this weekend, but yes, I have to take advantage when I'm in town to start chipping away at this project

Hey your getting close! I do remember seeing the pics come to think of it. Talk about a cute little guy..no not the driver. So it's a big block AV15 with a 1000 watts under the hood. Sounds pretty formidable indeed. :scareboo:

[ssabripo]

Hey your getting close! I do remember seeing the pics come to think of it. Talk about a cute little guy..no not the driver. So it's a big block AV15 with a 1000 watts under the hood. Sounds pretty formidable indeed. :scareboo:

yeah man...Chasw98 and I are gonna get together this weekend and start working on the wood! :^x He's got some goodie tools that I'm gonna use, and also check out his Sonotube "callas" clone beast :T

sounds like it is gonna be fun!

[steve nn]

sounds like it is gonna be fun!

Darn hootin!.. Hey did you ever find the Rosewood you were looking for?

[ssabripo]

Darn hootin!.. Hey did you ever find the Rosewood you were looking for?

no man...still shopping around...if I can't find a decent price, I will probably just go black. I'm not gonna spend $100+ on just veneer...sorry

BUT, I'm always ears for suggestions! :B

[SteveCallas]

and also check out his Sonotube "callas" clone beast

His and mine are quite different actually.

[ssabripo]

His and mine are quite different actually.

so, is Chuck's an improved v2.0? :B :

[chasw98]

so, is Chuck's an improved v2.0? :B :

I don't know. I hear Steve is afraid to come to Florida to listen to it :rofl: Actually, mine is a "mini-callas". Steve used an Avalanch 18, I used a SS rl-P15. Mine is 7 cu ft, 20 inch dia., I believe Steve's is 9 cu ft, 24 inch dia.

[SteveCallas]

If I were able to take a trip to Florida for the sole reason of listening to your sub, why, I'd have it pretty good 8) And 9 cubic feet would be reasonable, mine is 23 cubic feet :lol:

[chasw98]

OOPS! 23 gigacubic feet! Next thing you're gonna tell us that you have 3 of these babies!

[steve nn]

mine is 23 cubic feet

Only a true basshead would say that. 8)