Thin surround speaker for wall mounting?

[snmhanson]

I would like to build a pair or two of surround speakers to go with my Statement Monitor/2RCC front stage. I want something that can be wall mounted and not protrude into the room significantly. I may also design a sort of post that they could be mounted on so that I could pivot them once mounted but I'm not sure on that. Preferably, I would like it to be maybe 6" deep or less. Looking through existing designs I haven't seen anything that fits the bill except the In-Kahns which I think may be overkill. Are there any designs that can be altered to a reduced depth cabinet that would work? I know I would have to keep width the same but maybe if I could add to the length? The full range Lineups could work if I could reduce box depth in them. If I can't find something to build I am going to be stuck buying some in-ceiling speakers to serve as surrounds.

Thanks for any ideas.

Matt

[kraniet]

Hello. This is the surround that Im currently working on.



Although I think Id rather go with a capable fullrange and have like four or six of them (2-4 per channel placed spread out on the wall). But my other half wont go for that many speakers.

The basic design idea is for a wide dispersion and less localisation of the speaker closest to you (hence the angled baffle). It follows the "wish list" stated by Toole in his book "Sound reproduction".

The drivers are the old(original) HDS 5" and the Dayton ND20FA6. the crossover will be a single cap on the tweeters and e inductor for the mid/bass. Crossover somewhere in the 4-5Khz range.

Havent tried them with the crossover yet so im not all that sure how well itll work.

The design is based on a design that the guy who engineered the Guru speakers (Ingvar Öhman).

edit: With a fullrange it would look somethinge like this


That model is made by Öhman and called "Ino a1".

[snmhanson]

Thanks. The first pic didn't come out for me, but the second looks like it could be an acceptable design. Would it be mounted so the angle points the drivers more towards the ground or the ceiling? I'd be interested in seeing dimensions and crossover if possible.

Matt

[kraniet]

thats strange the image was there and the line of code is the same. I did a edit and hopefully the image will stay this time.. =)

As for the second speaker they are to be placed with the angle poining up. Unless you place them very close to the ceiling.

Regarding placement its adviced that all surround speakers should be at different hight (in symetric pairs of course) so that you can spread out the ceiling reflection.

As for the crossover on the second speaker im not sure if there is any. He makes his own drivers and can steer the freq response in that way. But I think the speaker has a lift towards higher frequencies in the on axis so that the power response is more even in all(most) directions. Actually he (Öhman) says they have a frequency response that is "psychoacoustically correct". Exactly how the curve looks im not sure.

But since its wall mounting were talking about you wont have to use as much baffle step correction as normally.

edit: as for the size of that particular speaker (a1) its 13x15x8.4 cm the driver is adopted from an audax driver I think. But Im sure you could find a suitable 3-4" fullrange.
On the swedish forum I hang in theres been alot of talk about the Vifa TG9FD10-04. https://www.madisound.com/store/prod...oducts_id=1616

[fbov]

I would like to build a pair or two of surround speakers to go with my Statement Monitor/2RCC front stage. I want something that can be wall mounted and not protrude into the room significantly. ...

You're thinking like I once did.

The only thing that will "go with" your Statements is a design with comparable output capability. Your mind is on the old movie-theater-emulation thought train, where surrounds only provide ambiance, receive little power and can work when small. That's not true today.

Build wimpy surround speakers and a modern AVR will cut power to your Statements by the difference in surround sensitivity. If you must try and hide them, take advantage of in-wall mounting (no BSC hit) and/or use higher-sensitivity drivers so the little guys can keep up, albeit not over the same frequency range or as sweetly, but with enough guts to let your mains play.

And the "conventional" wisdom about bi- and di-pole surrounds is not supported by experimentation; you want flat FR and wide dispersion here, too, just like your Statements.

Have fun,
Frank

PS my current surrounds are wimpy omni's, Pluto clones of my design. They're something special in stereo, but not as surrounds. Ambiance from the speaker is not needed, to my ears, when it's in the program. Dispersion is...

[kraniet]

if using just a pair of surrounds its true that youd need to make sure they match the front. But if you use more of them you can easily use smaller surrounds and still match the output needed.
Using 6 or even 8 surrounds in a 5.1 system makes for a substantial output. Making sure to crossover the surrounds at 120Hz further enhances their capabilities.

The most extraordinary HT experience ive had is this one http://www.minhembio.com/hassesolo/81567 here you have 6 surrounds (3 per channel) mated to a front with 3 dual wall mounted 6" and four 12" woofers. All in a custom made room. Can play very loud and clear without problem.

(no those arent peerless XLS woofers, they only share their basket)

[snmhanson]

Thanks for the responses. These are for a media/theater room that I designed before I got immersed in audio. The design of the room is terrible in that it has a huge 12' sliding door directly to the left of the seating area and a tray ceiling that goes all the way around the room. This significantly limits placement options so that I need to mount the speakers about eight feet back of the listening area if I want to keep them off of the ceiling and at the suggested 2' above ear height. They would be quite visible though so I would need them shallow and they would need to look good. If I want to mount them to the direct left and right of the seating area I would have to have them basically up against the ceiling and placed on the vertical edge of the tray ceiling, bringing them in towards the middle of the room ~30" on each side. Plus, it would look very awkward. Rear mounting could work but once again, I would need shallow and attractive speakers as they would be very exposed to the room. Ultimately I would like sides and rears for a 7.1 system, but I am facing quite a challenge trying to get even 5.1 to work. I am resisting the temptation to go with in-ceilings, even though they would by far result in the most flexibility in terms of location. I also have looked at these as am option, though it would be a bit of a shot in the dark (though they do have a great return policy): http://www.aperionaudio.com/product/...15,19,266.aspx

If any one is interested in commenting further and it would help, I would be happy to post a couple of pics of the room to visualize what I am facing.

Matt

[kraniet]

hard to tell how good those are, not having heard them. But that kind of design is very good for surround speakers. You have similar looking speakers from Infinity, Revel, PSB, M&K etc. So its a well used and proven design for surround.

[snmhanson]

hard to tell how good those are, not having heard them. But that kind of design is very good for surround speakers. You have similar looking speakers from Infinity, Revel, PSB, M&K etc. So its a well used and proven design for surround.

Thanks for the reply. I looked at some of those other companies and really liked the idea of the PSB and Revel surrounds. They can be run dipole/bipole, or bi-wired with the shorting strap removed to serve as separate fronts and rears. I am sure bi-wiring them would be a compromise relative to independent/separate sides and rears. Nevertheless, I think it is still a great concept that would add flexibility while keeping the wall clutter down and making the wife happy. Only problem is they are a bit expensive.

So, I would offer to be the guinea pig if anyone is interested in designing a bi-wireable surround. I would be looking for something of a pyramid shape with a flat top and a tweeter and mid on each side. Maybe 12" tall, 6-7" deep and a total of 12" or so wide. Probably using Dayton drivers to facilitate integration with many of the other designs on this sight. I would even be open to a 3 way but it would likely be overkill and a bit large for the wall space I have. The whole dipole/bipole/bi-wire setup would be ideal but maybe the crossover would be too complex? In any case, if any of you design gurus are up for the challenge let me know. You give me critical box dimensions and the crossover plan and I'll build it.

Matt