Sub death rattle?

[Jim Holtz]

My beloved Stryke AV-15 has started to develop a rattle. I've been looking for a match to add another AV-15 unsuccessfully for some time. This may change my direction. I do need to do some more investigation but it now points to the driver going bad.

I'm not an over the top sub guy. I found the AV-15 could rattle the top floor of my house on bass heavy movies. So, with that thought in mind, any suggestions for a similar replacement that doesn't cost a fortune? I really liked TC Sounds but I don't think they are available anymore. Also CCS SD15's look interesting as do DIY Cables Tempest-X. Both are a bit pricy compared to what I paid for the AV-15 though.

I'm looking for some recommendations for a 15" sub in a 4 cube sealed cabinet. I want an F/3 in the 30's.

Thanks for your help!

Jim

[Dennis H]

Have you checked with John? They list the AV15-H and -X for sale and they might be able to rebuild your driver while they're at it. I don't know if they still have spare parts for the old Stryke version.

http://www.aespeakers.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2376

http://www.aespeakers.com/shop/catalog/

[evilskillit]

Well Jim, by todays standards the offerings from CSS and Exodus Audio are pretty cheap compared to some of the competition. I don't know how long its been since you bought or built your Stryke but inflation has driven the prices of everything way up. Kevin at Exodus Audio just had to raise his prices about 20% a month or two ago

The best price for what you're wanting to do is the Dayton Reference 15 in a 4 cu ft sealed cabinet. SQ is great and people have been really happy with them. They don't have as much excursion as some of the competition but we know they sound great. Other than that the SDX15 from CSS or Tempest 15 from Exodus are great subs for around $260. I guess the AE offerings are priced similarly, I thought they were more. Hrm the Mach5 MJ18 used to offer a pretty darn good value for about $170, but it probably required too large of a box for you, also they don't seem to have it up on their web page right now, tho they just had them recently, a call to them might be able to figure out what thats all about.

At $99 each you could build 2 subs out of the baisic offering I know they're taboo around here but the sub seems like a good value, tho the single 15s are comparable in price and probably have as much swept volume.

Either way, let us know what you end up building. I'll be curious

Oh, and there are the Dayton Titanic subs, but for the price I like Exodus' offerings better.

[ThomasW]

Jim,

No point in buying 2 new drivers.....

Send the old driver to JohnJ to get it reconed. Have him recone the old unit to match the T/S parameter of one of his new drivers.

[Jim Holtz]

No point in buying 2 new drivers.....

Send the old driver to JohnJ to get it reconed. Have him recone the old unit to match the T/S parameter of one of his new drivers.

Hi Thomas,

I hadn't thought of getting the sub repaired. I'm a bit confused about AE's current AV-15's though. I come up with a F/3 much higher than the 30's that I want. I asked John and he basically responded that F/3 depended on where you crossed the sub to the mains. I'm looking for a true F/3 in the 30's.

Hi Dennis,

I asked John about any new old stock after I bought one for a friends home theater system that I helped them set up. John indicated he didn't have any more. I didn't ask about repair parts though so that might be an option.

Well Jim, by todays standards the offerings from CSS and Exodus Audio are pretty cheap compared to some of the competition.

Hi Evilskillit,

It depends on how serious you are about cracking plaster. I only use a sub for home theater. The Statements have a LOT of bass and handle music very well. I run the Statements (all) full range a roll in the sub at 50 Hz. on home theater only.

Reference series doesn't work for me for reasons I won't go into. The Sound Splinter subs etc. are priced WAAAAY to much for my usage. I had actually planned to get a couple Tempest-X subs before they were available. I thought they'd be around $180 - $200 range. When the final pricing came out, I held off and they're now much higher yet.

CSS SDX15's with 30 mm xmax and a bottomless basket design look the best to me unless I can figure something out with the AV-15. I do not like the price of the SDX15 though.

Thanks to everyone who has offered advice. I just haven't found a solution that fits my needs and budget yet.

Jim

[evilskillit]

I think the first gen tempest x was close to that price point, the x2 came out at around $220, but when the prices got hiked a month or three ago it went up noticeably .

Yeah I know what you mean when you say they seem expensive. I'm thinking if you want something better than Dayton Reference the options are those guys at those price points or JL, TC Sounds, etc at over 400-500 per driver :E.

I don't know what I'd do in your shoes. I actually need to decide what I'm going to do when I get around to building good subs for my music setup. Right now I'm using some goldwood 12" woofers that I've pressed into sub duty, and they work better than you'd think. But eventually I want something nice. Probably go with Dayton Reference due to price constraints vs SQ. Next choice would be the same thing you're looking at. Or for a bit more I'd love to buy a 2 pack or 4 pack of Exodus DPL-15 (Hopefully they're still available when I've got money) and see what the IB phenomenon is all about

[ThomasW]

Jim,

Might want to have a little chat with JohnJ. I'm pretty sure he can build anything you want/need

[Jim Holtz]

I got a reprieve...

Might want to have a little chat with JohnJ. I'm pretty sure he can build anything you want/need

Hi Thomas,


Hmmm.... that really interests me. Particularly since I figured out my "death rattle" was an incorrectly adjusted spike on an uneven concrete floor which allowed the sub to vibrate. ops: I should have looked before posting.

I really do like the AV-15 and would buy another one in a heartbeat assuming I could afford it. I'll try to contact John directly and see if he has an interest. I'd really like to have two of these.

Thanks again for your help!

Jim

[Jim Holtz]

Gentleman,

One more question regarding subs. Since my discovery of the uneven floor issue, I've been messing with the sub. I watched Surrogates last night in Blueray. It has a LOT of bass.

All was well except for a "click" that I could hear on super heavy bass passages. I don't think it was bottoming. That's a sound I'm familiar with from other subs. Theoretically, with the PE 500 watt amp I use, the AV-15 should never bottom according to John J. and Unibox. So, what does a sub amp clipping sound like? I've read that the PE amps are a bit below spec and suspect that as as the source of the sound.

Also, if the amp is clipping, what damage can it cause to a sub?

Thanks for your feedback!

Jim

[JonMarsh]

Does sound like amp clipping is a possibility there, Jim. Fortunately, unlike a full range speaker where clipping often damages a tweeter, for a sub, little worries. Gross overdrive/clipping long term can develop DC offsets depending on the program material and amplifier limiters, which could cause VC heating, but that's not a likely scenario for you with HT.

You might want to consider a higher power amp to avoid transient peak clipping. One of the things that amazes me about many sub amp buys is that people often go for just dollar/watt best deal- where even in the 70's, that kind of amp did not have the best low frequency definition and articulation. Now, maybe you don't really need that so much for sound effects like explosions as opposed to music, but I can't help but think that the same qualities that make Statements great music and HT speakers, could apply to your LF amplifier also. Just a thought to put out there... doesn't mean you need Aragon Palladiums, for example, but something closer to that than a PE amp?

[Jim Holtz]

Hi Jon,

Thank you for the reply! I'm glad to hear that I won't hurt the driver if I use any common sense but it does sound like it needs my attention.

Also, very good thoughts on the LF amp. I do only use the sub for home theater and have it set to roll in about 50 Hz. so it only handles the bottom octave on sound effects in movies. My home theater/listening room is 15'x20' and is relatively easy to pressurize.

So, what would you recommend for an amp that provides quality amplification but doesn't require a 2nd mortgage to own?

Thanks again for your thoughts!

Jim

[JonMarsh]

My first suggestion would be a used Aragon- those I have a lot of first hand experience with, but Thomas tells me they've been drying up on Audiogon. I'll scratch my head a bit and get back to you on that later- I've heard good things about the amps Exodus is selling. And I really like my Cambridge Audio840W, which is rated for bridged mono operation into 4 ohm loads, but I don't know if the price (around $2K) would be considered 2nd mortgage territory. Used Aragon would be less expensive. I like Aragon Palladiums as sub amps. (they're basically a beefed up Aragon 8008BB running bridged in mono, 600W+ at 8 ohms, (clipping at about 750W) and about 1 kW at 4 ohms.